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Rep. Debbie Dingell (D-MI), Is Interviewed About Trump To Sign His Megabill Into Law At July 4 Ceremony; Trump Softens Immigration Tone To Avoid Farm Worker Shortage; Zelenskyy Aide: Trump Call Was "Important And Meaningful". Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired July 04, 2025 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[11:00:52]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, consequential phone call. President Trump kicks off his 4th of July by speaking with Ukraine's President Zelenskyy just hours after a massive, a massive Russian attack on Ukraine. And just the day after Trump spoke with Vladimir Putin, Trump calling that conversation disappointing.

Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer. Pamela Brown has the day off and you're in The Situation Room.

New this morning, President Trump has held a phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy just hours after Russia unleashed its largest drone strike of the war. The bombardment comes just after President Trump said that Vladimir Putin doesn't seem interested in ending the war. And days after, the Pentagon said it will cause some weapons shipments to Ukraine.

It will cause some weapons shipments to Ukraine. And later today, there will be a star-spangled celebration over at the White House as President Trump spends this Independence Day marking the biggest legislative victory of his second term.

Let's go to CNN Senior White House Reporter, Kevin Liptak. Kevin, first of all, what can you tell us about this Trump-Zelenskyy phone call?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, the timing here, I think, is critical, Wolf. You know, that barrage of missiles and drones from Russia overnight was the largest since this war began. And I think it really helped Zelenskyy make his case in this phone call for continued American support, for continued American shipments of these defensive weapons that had been put on halt by the Trump administration, citing -- citing dwindling stockpiles in the United States.

And from what we understand from the Ukrainian side of things is that these weapons were at the very center of the conversation between the two men today. President Zelenskyy writing on social media that Trump was very well-informed about the situation in Ukraine and that they did discuss, quote, opportunities in air defense and agreed that they would work together to strengthen -- strengthen the protection of the skies over Ukraine. He said that they had a detailed conversation about defense industry capa -- capabilities and then went on to say this.

We are ready for direct projects with the United States and believe this is critically important for security, especially when it comes to drones and related technologies. So clearly Zelenskyy, I think, trying to get some clarity from Trump about what exactly this pause would entail. Because remember, when these two men met just last week on the sidelines of the NATO summit in the Netherlands, President Trump emerged sounding open to sending new Patriot missile batteries to Ukraine.

And very critically, some of the missiles that Russia is launching into Ukraine overnight can only be intercepted by those Patriot missiles. So Zelenskyy making pretty clear that they will be essential for Ukraine's defense going forward. We understand that President Trump has also been on the phone with the German Chancellor Friedrich Merz.

He also spoke with the French President Emmanuel Macron. Both of those leaders trying to put pressure on the U.S. to apply new sanctions on Moscow that could bring Putin to the negotiating table. There has also been some discussion about Germany potentially purchasing some of these Patriot missile batteries and then transferring them to Ukraine.

So all of this point of discussion between these leaders. President Trump spoke yesterday with Vladimir Putin. He emerged from that phone call not sounding very optimistic. He said it was disappointing. He said he had made zero progress with Putin trying to bring this conflict to an end. Clearly an ongoing frustration that the President has not yet been able to resolve this conflict.

BLITZER: And Kevin, what can you tell us about the President's signing ceremony later today of what he's calling his big, beautiful bill?

[11:04:52]

LIPTAK: Yes, he seems to be combining this signing ceremony for this most decisive piece of legislation of his second term with the traditional July 4th picnic out on the South Lawn. And, you know, you can already smell the grills going for the barbecue out there. The highlight of this event, aside from the signing itself, will be a flyover of those B-2 bombers that dropped those bunker busters on Iranian nuclear facilities last month, which I think just underscores what -- what a consequential two weeks this has been for the President, starting with what happened in the Middle East, moving to that NATO Summit that was quite decisive in getting allies to increase their defense spending.

There was that impactful Supreme Court decision that expanded the President's executive authority. And then his success in Congress, really demonstrating his power over the Republican Party. The President himself said yesterday he thinks he's now more powerful this term than he was last time. But now the process really begins of selling this bill to the American public.

You know, recent history is kind of littered with presidents who accomplished this major legislation using their congressional majorities, only to later regret not being able to sell it once those majorities were lost in the midterms. And so the President's real effort, his salesmanship, begins now.

BLITZER: All right, Kevin Liptak, over at the White House for us. It's going to be a busy day. Thank you very, very much.

I want to continue this discussion right now. Joining us, Democratic Congresswoman Debbie Dingell of Michigan. Congresswoman, thanks very much for coming in. What are you hearing from your constituents, first of all, after this bill's passage yesterday?

REP. DEBBIE DINGELL (D-MI): You know, Wolf, I have to tell you that my constituents and the people I've been spending a lot of time with, families that depend upon Medicaid. It's the longest payer of long- term care. Seniors are worried that something's going to happen. Their spouses are going to be kicked out of nursing homes.

A mother who I actually met on an elevator at the University of Michigan Hospital called me last night. She'd started crying with me in the elevator. You promised me you would protect me. What am I going to do?

So, you know, I know some people say, OK, now let's go defeat Republicans in 2026. I think we got to hold them accountable. But what I'm more worried right now is making sure that people who need healthcare get it and that kids or seniors or veterans who may be hungry because of this bill aren't.

BLITZER: Are you satisfied with the way your Democratic Party put up the, you know, allowed this to go forward?

DINGELL: I don't think you can say allowed this to go forward. The fact of the matter is the voters spoke last November and elected Republicans.

BLITZER: Did the Democrats put up a good fight?

DINGELL: I think we have done, with it -- we have worked hard. I think Hakeem Jeffries did what everybody had been wanting him to do when he delayed it so that, do you know that I've spent six all-nighters in the consideration of this bill because the Republicans didn't want the American people to see what they were doing, so they did it in the middle of the night.

We -- people who know about this bill oppose it, two to one. He has done a good job of -- of kidding a lot of people. One senior said to me, you have to vote for this bill. I can't afford to pay taxes on my Social Security. Well, this bill does not eliminate taxes on Social Security. It has a very short-term increase in deduction for some seniors, that's it. So I think people may be looking for tax cuts they're not going to see right away and we would do that. Democrats would do those tax cuts. We should be doing them in smaller chunks without adding $4 trillion to the -- our debt as a country and we should do it without taking healthcare or making children in this country hungry.

BLITZER: It will impact children, our children and our grandchildren for many years to come. I spoke with your colleague and I think a friend of yours, Republican Congresswoman Lisa McClain, the chair of the Republican Conference.

DINGELL: She is one of my good friends.

BLITZER: Fellow Michigan, Michigander, about the impact that this bill could have on Medicaid in your state of Michigan. I want to highlight some of what she told me about the Medicaid changes that are in this bill. Listen to this.

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REP. LISA MCCLAIN (R-MI): And my constituents applaud us for what we're doing. My constituents want to work. They want to make sure that their disabled child is receiving Medicaid and doesn't have to stand in line behind an able-bodied person.

Most of my constituents don't think that the restriction of working or volunteering to receive Medicaid 20 hours a week is a bridge too far. They actually are excited about that because they're building skills to actually go back into the workforce.

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BLITZER: Her district of Michigan is not very far from your district as you well know. How do you respond to Congresswoman McClain?

DINGELL: Lisa and I have had many conversations. I'm going to say that to you. And I do believe she does not want to see people be hurt, but I think that a lot of people who haven't dug in don't understand, and the amount of the cut to Medicaid could hurt people. She'll be the first person I go to and say, will you help me keep this child from being cut off Medicaid?

[11:10:10]

I think a lot of Republicans had their arms broken. I, you know, there are hospitals that are going to close. That's another thing that people don't understand. Rural hospitals are going to close. The hospitals have tried to tell people what is happening. Seventy-five percent of the children at the Detroit Children's Hospital are on Medicaid.

If you're someone that lives in one of the rural areas of our state of Michigan, I've talked to those hospital administrators. You right now may be with 30 minutes, 45 minutes of a hospital. Now suddenly one of those closes, you're two to three hours and having a stroke or a heart attack. That's the difference between life and death. BLITZER: As you know, Democrats, your fellow Democrats, say they are now eager to campaign against Republicans in next year -- next year's midterm elections, the Republicans for supporting this bill. But just last hour, I spoke with Republican Congressman Chuck Fleischmann of Tennessee, who told me he's not worried at all about this hurting Republicans. How do you see it?

DINGELL: Look, I'm not -- I'm not the person who votes on a bill so I can go campaign against a Republican. But I am worried about what I'm going to be totally focused on is making sure that all those people that have talked to me, I -- the -- the governor gave me 15,000 letters that I put into the record that people had just written to her.

So I do think when hospitals start to close, when people in their districts are being thrown off Medicaid, when there are children and veterans and seniors that are going hungry, that those who voted for this bill are going to have to go to those people in their district and say why they don't care that they don't have healthcare or why they don't care that they're hungry.

BLITZER: Many of the changes in this bill that's now been passed, about to be signed into law by the President, many of the changes in the bill to Medicaid requirements and food stamp funding for that matter won't take effect until after the midterm elections. Do you think this will make it harder for messaging for the Democrats around this issue to resonate?

DINGELL: I think that -- that some of it's going to be felt right away and already the anxiety is there. I can hear it. I mean, I can't tell you people who called me last night crying because the anxiety of what's -- of what could happen is going to be there. So I -- I think people should be struck by the fact that they wanted to put things in there that would go into effect after '26 because they didn't want to be held accountable, but already hospitals are making decisions about whether they can stay open.

And what happened in their utility bills are going to go up this year, by the way. And you better make sure that we're going to make sure they know their utility bills went up because what they did in this bill, their experts are saying $150 yet this year.

BLITZER: We'll find out sooner rather than later how this all unfolds.

DINGELL: Correct.

BLITZER: Thanks very much, Congressman Debbie Dingell of Michigan. Appreciate it very much.

DINGELL: Thank you.

BLITZER: And happening now, President Trump is trying to soften his tone on immigration. Administration officials now say they're trying to make it easier for employers to bring in foreign nationals for temporary or seasonal agricultural work. Here's what the President told farmers yesterday in Iowa. Listen to this. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If a farmer is willing to vouch for these people, in some way, Kristi, I think we're going to have to just say that's going to be good, right? You know, we're going to be -- we're going to be good with it because we don't want to do it where we take all of the workers off the farms. We want the farms to do great like they're doing right now.

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BLITZER: Officials in some industries have expressed concerns about the President's very aggressive deportation campaign and its impact on migrant workers. CNN correspondent Priscilla Alvarez is here with me in The Situation Room. Priscilla, you helped break this reporting for us. Tell us what you're learning.

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, a source that represents the manufacturers told me that they are between, quote, a rock and a hard place. The reason for that is because a lot of their industry, as well as others like agriculture and hospitality, they rely on migrant workers. Some of them are undocumented, but some of them, as they described to me, are newly undocumented, meaning that they had protections under the Biden administration. They were allowed to legally work in the U.S. Those have been stripped back.

So now the employers are in this difficult position of what to do. The administration clearly recognizes that there is frustration among these industries, some of these industries which are key constituencies to President Trump, and they are grappling with that internally. The President himself is grappling with it, as you can hear from his statements, because he's, in one way, saying that we need to protect the farmers, and in another, still emboldening Immigration and Customs Enforcement to continue their immigration crackdown.

Now, the President there was -- was acknowledging Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem. Sources tell us that the president has tasked her, as well as the secretaries of labor and agriculture, to try to find a solution to this, realizing that they're getting so much incoming, again, behind the scenes in these meetings, with various industry representatives. Take a listen to what Secretary Rollins had to say yesterday.

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[11:15:16]

BROOKE ROLLINS, AGRICULTURE SECRETARY: Stephen Miller, myself, the top team in the White House, has been working on, including Secretary Noem, including Secretary Chavez-DeRemer, on the H-2A streamline, the current visa system that allows seasonal workers in.

So we are hard at work. We've already made some changes. We're going to make it cheaper, more efficient, and more effective for those farmers. We will have a 100 percent legal workforce, very, very soon. (END VIDEO CLIP)

ALVAREZ: So she's talking there about the H-2A visa. That is a temporary farm worker visa. Here's the problem with that. That visa doesn't cover all the different industries that rely on migrant workers. It's also temporary. And in some cases, there are farms that need people for longer periods of time than the visa allows. So the administration has tried to streamline the visa, has opened up an office, so that they can try to sort whatever challenges these farm workers and others are facing.

But the data here is, Wolf, that 4 percent to 5 percent of the U.S. workforce is undocumented immigrants. It goes up when you look at crops, as well as food processing, to 15 percent to 20 percent. So you can get an idea as to why this has become so difficult for the administration. On the other side, immigration hardliners who also voted for the President and want to see this immigration crackdown, they are telling me that they're worried the president may go too far as he tries to find relief.

So clearly, the administration is stuck here as it comes to this particular issue, as they are also trying to execute on mass deportation.

BLITZER: We'll see what the president finally decides. Thanks very much Priscilla Alvarez reporting for us.

And still ahead, a night of terror in Kyiv after Russia's latest massive drone strike. Ukraine's president pressing President Trump for help.

Plus, the families of people still held in Gaza using every pressure point they can -- they can have to try to free their loved ones. The brother of two hostages tells CNN what he wants from President Trump. Stay with us. Lots more news coming up right here in The Situation Room.

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[11:21:49]

BLITZER: Happening now, Ukraine is assessing the damage from another very deadly and relentless aerial assault from Russia. Moscow says it targeted key military targets like drone factories and airfields, including some targets in and around the capital of Kyiv.

Ukraine says one person was killed, more than 20 hurt. Its air force says the attacks involved a record number of drones, more than 500, along with nearly a dozen missiles. Earlier this morning, Trump spoke with Ukrainian President Zelenskyy, whose chief of staff described the call as, quote, very important and meaningful, close quote.

CNN's chief international security correspondent, Nick Paton Walsh, is joining us right now. Nick, what more do we know about Trump's call just a little while ago with Ukraine's president? NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Yes, I mean, interestingly, we don't have a White House readout of what was said in that particular call, but we do know that his call with Putin a matter of probably 24 hours earlier left Trump saying he was very disappointed and Putin clearly did not want the peace or the ceasefire, certainly that the U.S. and Ukraine have sought openly, along with its European allies, for months now.

But we do know from Ukraine's president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, that he's emerged from this call essentially feeling positive. His readout is to suggest that it was a very important and fruitful conversation, but it's incredibly low on specifics, Wolf. They said they talked about the airstrikes overnight and he reflected on how President Trump is, quote, very well informed and about opportunities for air defense and potentially joint production.

So a hint there that maybe Washington and Kyiv have found a way to continue cooperation on one of the most important things in their relationship and that's the Patriot interceptor air missile defense systems. Look, Ukraine's been clear it's very short of those for months. It appears to have been critical in recent weeks and we heard from the Pentagon, echoed by President Trump himself, that there may -- may well be a pause or not a cessation in deliveries of those interceptor missiles because the U.S. is so short on supplies itself.

Is what we saw over Kyiv, I mean, horrific scenes, frankly, multiple areas with civilians hit by 539 drones, some may have been decoys, but potentially a record wave there. I think many in Kyiv concern that the amount that got through, the intensity that were focused on the capital, perhaps a sign that Russia is trying to find weaknesses or indeed has found them and continues to exploit them.

A wider concern too, Wolf, that we may actually see this grow. Remember a year ago, 100 drones was a lot, now 500 is and Ukraine's intelligence suggests they might be in the 800 to 1,000 area at some point in the months ahead. That may be something Ukraine can't possibly stop, but there is potentially a glimmer of hope here, maybe with Germany stepping into the gap to act as a conduit or a way to produce Patriot interceptors if the U.S. doesn't --

[11:24:58]

BLITZER: I think we just lost our connection with Nick Paton Walsh. We'll thank Nick and we'll update the latest information when we reconnect with him.

In the meantime, I want to bring in Cedric Leighton, a CNN military analyst and retired U.S. Air Force colonel. Colonel Leighton, thanks so much for -- for joining us. Is the Kremlin sending a message with the timing, the timing of this overnight bombardment of Ukraine?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I think so, Wolf, and good to be with you. The -- the way in which the Kremlin has orchestrated this, it's pretty clear to me that they are including this as part of an overall offensive for the summer. This is -- this is part of their summer offensive, which includes a ground component, a ground troop component, as well as these drone and missile attacks. So given all of that and the fact that we had the call between President Trump and President Putin of Russia, and it didn't go that well, according to at least Trump's characterization of it, it seems to me that basically what the Russians are doing is they're thumbing their noses at the U.S. and the entire Western alliance, and that is the message that they're sending.

They're in essence sending, we believe we can take Ukraine, we can capture Ukraine, we can subjugate Ukraine, and that is what they're trying to do here. They, of course, will have a tough time actually doing that, but that is their belief and they're acting on it.

BLITZER: And amidst all of this, Colonel, the Pentagon says it's actually halting some of its weapons shipments to Ukraine. The U.S. has been the single biggest donor of military aid to Ukraine since the war began, what, some three years ago. How much has that emboldened Putin when he hears that?

LEIGHTON: I think it's emboldened him quite a bit. One of the real problems is this is precisely the wrong time to do this kind of thing, to stop the deliveries of weapons and munitions into Ukraine, and some of those weapons and munitions were actually in Poland right next door to Ukraine and could have easily gotten across the border without any impact on the U.S. defense stockpile, which was the reason given for this -- this pause in shipments to Ukraine. So, yes, this emboldens the Russians.

It tells them that the West is divided, weak. They'll read into it that kind of weakness and they will act on that weakness. The only thing the Russians understand is a forceful response and that forceful response, they don't see that coming from either the U.S. or NATO or, frankly, Ukraine, because Ukraine is dependent on the West for the aid that it needs in order to survive.

BLITZER: Ukraine says Russia actually fired 537 drones overnight against targets inside Ukraine. That's a record in this war. How much will these halted weapons shipments from the U.S. to Ukraine impact Ukraine's air defense system?

LEIGHTON: Well, one of the big issues is the number of interceptors that the Ukrainians actually have in their inventory. Their failure to procure more, to get more, and you can't blame them for that, but the failure of the West to provide that -- those kinds of weapons, that makes it much easier for the Russians to overwhelm the Ukrainian air defenses.

Basically, the game that the Russians are playing, Wolf, is we will overwhelm your air defenses, we will throw everything we've got at you as quickly as we possibly can, and that's how they get through the air defenses right now. You see the scenes we're seeing right now from Kyiv overnight.

And that -- that basic idea is to, in essence, force the Ukrainians into some kind of a settlement with them by overwhelming their defenses, and they do that not only through the drones and the missiles, but also through ground troops, which they're massing on various points along the front line.

BLITZER: Colonel Cedric Leighton, thanks very much for joining us.

LEIGHTON: You bet, Wolf.

BLITZER: And just days after upholding a ban on some healthcare for trans youth, the U.S. Supreme Court is poised to weigh in on another blockbuster case, transgender student athletes. An attorney for the student plaintiffs is standing by to join us live. That's next.

[11:29:16]

And happening now, catastrophic rain and deadly flooding in Texas. The latest on the rescues underway this morning.

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