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MAGA World at Odds Over Epstein Files; FBI Director Bongino Staying for Now; Trump Gives Putin Ultimatum to Reach Peace Deal in 50 Days. Aired 10:30-11a ET
Aired July 15, 2025 - 10:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:30:00]
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: -- the president himself has privately urged his team to let the story die down. This as the administration finds itself not only at odds with supporters, but also with close allies up on Capitol Hill.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): I think it's just a red line that it crosses for many people. This is something that's been talked about by many people serving in the administration, myself and many others on the right and the left of there needing to be transparency.
REP. ELI CRANE (R-AZ): I want to see more transparency like a lot of other members and a lot of other Americans.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: All right. Let's discuss this and more with the former Trump campaign adviser and CNN's senior political commentator, David Urban. David, thanks very much for joining us. Is the president making a political mistake by telling his supporters to stop talking about Epstein? It's a story, as we all know, he and other members of his administration had been promoting for years.
DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST AND FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN ADVISER: Yes. Well, Donald Trump never makes mistakes (INAUDIBLE) that with his base, right. The base follows Donald Trump. But whether the base goes away from this and lets the story go is yet to be determined.
You know, Wolf, I think Pam Bondi, the attorney general, kind of made a mistake here early on when she passes out these white binders that say Epstein phase one. That -- you know, that means there's going to be a phase two. When you don't pass out a binder that says phase one and not expect to be a phase two. And so, all these influencers, the base and others expected there was going to be more. And now, to be told there is no more, I think it's really riled people up.
And as Marjorie Taylor Greene and others say, this is about transparency and accountability. And the base one's accountability here. They want the people to be held accountable, who are responsible for, you know, these horrific crimes against these young women. BLITZER: The FBI director, Kash Patel, and the deputy director, Dan Bongino, both pushed Epstein conspiracy theories long before joining the Trump administration as these senior FBI officials. Kash Patel said this a couple years ago. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, who has Jeffrey Epstein's --
KASH PATEL, DIRECTOR, FBI: Black book?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- black book?
PATEL: FBI.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But who? That is -- that -- I mean there's --
PATEL: Oh, that's under direct control of the director of the FBI.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: So, Kash Patel is now the FBI director. So, what should Americans who are concerned about these files make of all of this?
URBAN: Yes. So, maybe, I think in those instances, maybe the folks got out over their skis a bit talking about things they didn't really know whether or not there was a black book. Look, I don't believe there is a black book. I believe there's not a lot of there, there, and that's why you're seeing what you're seeing today.
This was overplayed, this hand was overplayed. And the things that still remain are either, you know, they're court -- they're sealed by court order, they're not going to be disclosed because they would damage the victims in these cases. And so, they're protecting a lot of information here. There's probably child pornography in there. So, things that can't be disclosed or what's still remaining.
And so, I think you saw Laura Trump yesterday -- Lara Trump yesterday teased there's going to be more revealed but just how much is going to be, you know, yet to be determined, and whether that will satisfy the base is the ultimate question here.
BLITZER: Yes. Laura Trump, the president's daughter-in-law. Some of Trump's supporters are taking note of the president's desire to try to tamp down this entire Epstein story. I want you to listen to what Charlie Kirk and Laura Ingraham were saying just a few days ago compared to what we're hearing from them now. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Make some noise if you care about the Jeffrey Epstein scandal.
CHARLIE KIRK, HOST, THE CHARLIE KIRK SHOW: Raise your hand if it matters a lot to you, raise your hand. So, every hand of 7,000 people.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everybody cares.
KIRK: Honestly, I'm done talking about Epstein for the time being. I'm going to trust my friends, the administration. I'm going to trust my friends in the government.
LAURA INGRAHAM, HOST, FOX NEWS: Satisfied with the results of the Epstein investigation, clap. Well, as conservative influencers were eating their own about Epstein, the president was stealing the show on the one-year anniversary of the day, he almost lost his life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: So, not everyone has yet fallen in line. What does that suggest to you?
URBAN: Yes. Wolf, it suggests that the base doesn't believe that there's transparency here. The base doesn't believe that the powerful are being held accountable. And I think that's what people want to see, or they want transparency. They want the government to say, look, here's what we have. There's no there, there. We got over our skis on this, and we got to walk it back now. I think that's what people want to see, transparency.
BLITZER: Democrats understandably are trying to take a political advantage of this whole story. I want you to listen to what the House Democratic leader, Hakeem Jeffries, said. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY), MINORITY LEADER: The American people deserve to know the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth as it relates to this whole sorted Jeffrey Epstein matter. Democrats didn't put the Jeffrey Epstein thing into the public domain. This was a conspiracy that Donald Trump, Pam Bondi, and these MAGA extremists have been fanning the flames of for the last several years. And now, the chickens are coming home to roost.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[10:35:00]
BLITZER: Does he have a point?
URBAN: Well, listen, I do agree with the minority leader there in terms of transparency. But you know, to be fair, the Biden administration had this for many years and sat on it and didn't do a thing. And so, if he's calling for transparency now, where was he during the term of the Biden administration? I didn't hear him chiming in and calling for people to be -- you know, be prosecuted or any further disclosure then. So, it's a little rich that he's doing it now.
BLITZER: How do you ultimately see this entire thing playing out? Will this story simply go away as Trump wants, or are we on the verge of a revolt among at least part of the MAGA base? URBAN: I think it's really important to the base, but I don't think it's really important to the average Americans, right? In Pennsylvania today, my home state, Dave McCormick, my good friend and the president are there talking about $70 billion in investment in, you know, former Rust Belt areas of Pittsburgh. That's what people are talking about. It's got kitchen table issues, not so much Jeffrey Epstein.
I do think it's very important to the 7,000 people that Charlie Kirk asked the Turning Point USA and others in that ecosphere, but not much outside that ecosphere.
BLITZER: All right. David Urban, as usual, thank you very, very much. And we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:40:00]
PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: The family of a Palestinian American killed in the West Bank is demanding justice. 20-year-old Saif Musallet was born and raised in Florida. And witnesses report that he was beaten to death by Israeli settlers. CNN's Jeremy Diamond spoke with Saif's father who was demanding the U.S. investigate his son's death.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the back of an ambulance safe, Saif Musallet's aunt says one final goodbye. She's far from alone. Hundreds in this West Bank town have come to honor the American's son who is deeply rooted in his Palestinian community.
Saif was killed on Friday, just two weeks before his 21st birthday, beaten to death by Israeli settlers, according to his family. Those settlers also shot and killed another Palestinian man in the same attack, according to eyewitnesses. It is a senseless yet all too common outcome in the West Bank.
DIAMOND: Today, it is an American citizen being put to rest here, but over the course of the last 20 months of this war, nearly a thousand Palestinians have been killed in the West Bank and East Jerusalem according to the United Nations. But today, Saif Musallet's family is demanding an American investigation into his death.
KAMEL MUSALLET, SON KILLED: We want justice.
DIAMOND (voice-over): His father Kamel was home in Florida where he runs an ice cream shop with his son when he got the call that Saif had been attacked by settlers.
MUSALLET: You never think that it's your son or anything that that, who is this happening to. And then I got word that it was my son. He was hit, he was beaten, he lost conscience, but nobody could get to him. Ambulance couldn't come in. Why? Because the IDF restricted that. The IDF blocked that.
DIAMOND: So, you hold the Israeli military --
MUSALLET: I hold the Israeli military just as responsible as the settlers and the American government for not doing anything about this.
DIAMOND (voice-over): The State Department said it is aware of Saif's death, but declined to comment further on calls for an investigation. Israeli authorities say they are investigating but have not made any arrests.
For two months now, Palestinians here say Israeli settlers have been encroaching on their land. And terrorizing Palestinians who try and access it.
This was the scene on Friday as Saif and other Palestinians tried to reach their farmland. Hafez Abdel Jabbar said he saw settlers chase after a man he would later learn with Saif.
HAFEZ ABDEL JABBAR, SON KILLED IN 2024: They ran up the hill, they caught a Muslim. They started beating them with sticks.
DIAMOND (voice-over): By the time he reached Saif's body, he was already dead. As we head to the location where Saif's body was retrieved, a white vehicle suddenly appears behind us.
DIAMOND: We have a group of settlers who are now following us in their vehicle. They put their masks on as well, which is a concerning indication.
DIAMOND (voice-over): At an intersection, the settlers get out and try to pelt our vehicle. We manage to approach a nearby Israeli border police vehicle, and the settlers turn around. But minutes after the border police head out to search for the settlers, we are ambushed.
DIAMOND: Everyone OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Shoot, shoot, shoot.
DIAMOND: Go, go, go. Drive, drive, drive. Keep driving.
DIAMOND (voice-over): The masked men smashed the rear windshield of our car. But we managed to speed off unharmed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, no. They went --
DIAMOND: They turned. They turned. They turned.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They turned. They turned.
DIAMOND (voice-over): It is just a small window into the reality here.
JABBAR: If it would've took us five more seconds, we all would've been beating with these things.
DIAMOND: Do you think they would've beaten us? JABBAR: Yes, sir.
DIAMOND: But your son was also killed.
JABBAR: In January, 2024, by a settler. Simply just being there barbecuing.
DIAMOND: What does that feel like to have to constantly try and tell the world what's happening?
JABBAR: You scream into the whole world, and the whole world is watching, simply silent, seeing all these mothers put their sons down. They worked so hard to raise them up for 20 years and you pick them up and you put them in the ground under the sky and the silence go on and on and on.
DIAMOND (voice-over): Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Sinjil, the occupied West Bank.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[10:45:00]
BROWN: And CNN, has reached out to the State Department about an investigation and we have not heard back.
BLITZER: Coming up, President Trump says he's not done with Vladimir Putin. Russia is now responding to his plan to get weapons to Ukraine and threat of more sanctions.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Now, to President Trump's big shift on Ukraine. He threatened economic penalties on Russia if Moscow can't strike a peace deal with Ukraine in 50 days, 50 days. President Trump is also committing to funneling weapons to Ukraine through NATO.
[10:50:00]
And in a new statement this morning, Moscow says, the move was not a signal for peace, but a signal to continue the conflict. I want to bring in the former United States ambassador to Ukraine, William Taylor, to get some insights. Ambassador, thanks very much for coming in.
Why did Trump give Moscow the Russians right now and Putin a 50-day ultimatum? Why not 10 days or 20 days? It's going to give them a lot more time to launch a lot of missiles and rockets and drones and kill a whole bunch of civilians in Kyiv and other cities in Ukraine.
WILLIAM TAYLOR, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE AND DISTINGUISHED FELLOW, ATLANTIC COUNCIL: Wolf, I think you're right, I think that is the disappointment in that package. It should have been quicker. The good thing about the package, of course, was the weapons that you just talked about. Those could come right away, but the sanctions like taking 50 days that's too long. BLITZER: Are these secondary sanctions that he's now threatening the Russians with -- in 50 days if they don't agree to a peace deal with Ukraine that the U.S. would oppose sanctions and all sorts of tariffs on countries that have trade with Russia right now? Is this a powerful enough weapon to force the Russians to the negotiating table?
TAYLOR: It's up -- one of two steps. So, one of two pieces of this. The first is the weapons, and then this economic one is an attempt to put downward pressure on the resources going into the Russian economy that is fueling the Russian war machine. So, if they can lower the purchases from China from India. If China and India are worried about these sanctions, and President Trump has talked about higher sanctions than that, higher tariffs than that previously.
So, the hundred percent is not out of the question. And if the Chinese take that seriously, and if the Indians take that seriously and reduce the purchases of Russian oil, that could have an effect.
BLITZER: Because China and India do a lot of trading with Russia right now. And if the Russians don't agree to a peace deal with Ukraine within 50 days, then the U.S. would impose these secondary tariffs against countries like China and India to prevent them, to try to stop them from trading with Russians.
TAYLOR: Exactly right. And the Chinese are the Russian's only big supporter. The Russians need the Chinese. So, the Chinese are worried about these sanctions, they might put pressure on Putin to come to the table. And that's the goal.
BLITZER: You know, military, let's say the Patriot air defense missile system, the transfers that the U.S. is now proposing to give to NATO, and then NATO would provide them directly to Ukraine necessarily -- aren't necessarily enough to change the battlefield dynamic right now. What do you see the impact being here?
TAYLOR: I think that's right. It's not going to change the battlefield dynamic. What it does is gives the Ukrainians the time and the ability to keep fighting the Russians and to hold them off. Without these Patriots, without other air defense, the Russians can overwhelm the Ukrainian's air defenses and then have the possibility of making bigger gains on the ground. So, these Patriots are very important. And they're in Europe, they're in Germany, they're in Poland. They can go quickly.
And then the idea is that after they go in, the Poles and the Germans and others turn around and ask for more, buy more from American firms.
BLITZER: All this is happening as we've seen a stark change in the tone of Trump as he speaks about Vladimir Putin. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: And we have Russia, which is a real threat too. It's not as big as the Soviet Union, but a real threat, run by a very smart cookie. We get a lot of -- thrown at us by Putin, if you want to know the truth? He's very nice all the time, but it turns out to be meaningless. I go home, I tell the first lady and I spoke to Vladimir today. We had a wonderful conversation. She said, oh really? Another city was just hit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: But is the president matching that change in tone with actions?
TAYLOR: The weapons are actions. Again, the weapons are the important part.
BLITZER: Patriot air defenses.
TAYLOR: The Patriots. As well as others. They've been talking wolf about other longer-range, deep strike weapons. We're not sure if that's part of the package, but that -- these ATACMS, the longer-range missiles that the Ukrainians do have, if they get more of those, they can disrupt the Russian military.
BLITZER: What options does the Trump administration have if over the next 50 days, this period of this ultimatum to the Russians right now, if the Russians decide to dramatically escalate the conflict and launch a whole more, attack -- a lot more attacks against civilian targets in Ukraine?
TAYLOR: That will be very clear what the Russians are about. There will be no doubt that the Russians are not interested and that will be the signal to the -- that we and the Europeans continue to provide the Ukrainians the ability to defend themselves.
BLITZER: Let's see how that unfolds. All right. Thanks very much, Ambassador William Taylor, the former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine. Pamela.
BROWN: Coming up, Wolf, unreleased music stolen from Beyonce's choreographer while preparing for her show in Atlanta. How police are tracking down the suspect. And we just got the 911 call to police. Stay with us.
[10:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Happening now, President Trump urges his base to let the Jeffrey Epstein case go, as the future of the FBI's second in command hangs in the balance.
BLITZER: We want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer with Pamela Brown and you're in the Situation Room.
[11:00:00]
