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The Situation Room

Israel Strikes Syria; Republicans Move Forward on Controversial Trump Judicial Nominee; Interview With Rep. Katherine Clark (D-MA); Attorney General Visits Alcatraz. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired July 17, 2025 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Happening now, breaking news: a highly anticipated visit, two members of President Trump's Cabinet set to visit Alcatraz Island this hour, and it comes not long after the president said he wants the infamous and rundown former prison there back in the business of housing criminals.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer with Pamela Brown and you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BLITZER: And we begin with the breaking news.

The attorney general of the United States, Pam Bondi, is expected to visit the site of one of the most notorious prisons in U.S. history, Alcatraz, the island fortress in San Francisco Bay.

BROWN: Sources tells CNN that Bondi and Interior Secretary Doug Burgum will make an announcement, but details have not been released. And it's worth noting that just two months ago President Trump called for Alcatraz to be reopened as a prison more than 60 years after it closed and became a national park and popular tourist attraction.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Nobody's ever escaped from Alcatraz, and it just represented something strong having to do with law and order. We need law and order in this country and so we're going to look at it. Some of the people up here are going to be working very hard on that. And we had a little conversation

I think it's going to be very interesting. We will see if we can bring it back in large form, add a lot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: All right, let's go to CNN's Alayna Treene at the White House.

Alayna, you have some new reporting about a possible announcement at Alcatraz this morning. Tell us more.

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: That's right.

I was speaking with a source who's familiar with the plans that the attorney general, Pam Bondi, and Interior Secretary Doug Burgum have. They won't. They wouldn't get into the specifics of what Bondi and Burgum are doing there today. They told me that they are going to be visiting Alcatraz, of course, and would be making some sort of announcement.

But I will also say this had been advised to some California lawmakers. We heard from the office of Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi, who told CNN that they were advised that the two would be making an announcement before Alcatraz opens today for tours. Of course, it's become a huge tourist attraction, just given the prison, now shuttered, of course, for more than 60 years, housed some of the most notorious prisoners and criminals.

That includes Al Capone and George "Machine Gun" Kelly. Now, I do think the context of this is, of course, is so interesting because two months ago, the president had first floated this idea of wanting to formally reopen and rebuild Alcatraz to again once -- to again start housing some of these criminals.

The president had previously said that the opening of Alcatraz would serve as a symbol of law, order and justice. But timing is also a bit of a question here, because, I mean, I can tell you from my conversations with officials here at the White House this hadn't been something that I had been hearing a lot about.

It was kind of unclear ever since Trump had first floated that idea of whether or not they were actually going to move forward with plans to do so. But, of course, we are now standing by to see what Bondi and Burgum will say and how detailed they will get into these future plans.

BROWN: All right, Alayna Treene at the White House for us, thank you so much.

BLITZER: Meanwhile, a big win for President Trump in DOGE's effort to slash government spending. Early this morning, the U.S. Senate narrowly passed Trump's request to claw back billions of dollars in federal funding for foreign aid and public broadcasting.

BROWN: In a 51-48 vote, two Republicans opposed the package. Senator Susan Collins of Maine and Lisa Murkowski of Alaska joined all Democrats in voting against it.

The package now heads to the House for a final vote. Speaker Mike Johnson is promising to meet tomorrow's deadline, but there are stark divisions among lawmakers over the cuts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD): A lot of these recommendations now are an implementation of what DOGE found in areas of the budget that they thought we could achieve savings, but not undermine the critical mission aspects of a lot of these, what some of these programs do. SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): You know, DOGE comes along with the chain

saw approaches. They just cut, cut, cut. They have no idea what the consequences will be, and they don't give a hoot. They simply want to cut.

SEN. LISA MURKOWSKI (R-AK): My vote is guided by the imperative coming from Alaskans. I have a vote that I am free to cast with or without the support of the president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: The number two House, Congresswoman Katherine Clark of Massachusetts, joins us now.

Thank you so much for being here with us. I know it's also your birthday. So happy birthday.

REP. KATHERINE CLARK (D-MA): Well, thank you. Thank you.

BROWN: I know there's nowhere else you would rather be than talking about cutting government spending here.

CLARK: That's right.

(LAUGHTER)

BROWN: So that is what Republicans say, that this is all about cutting down on bloat and cutting down on wasted taxpayer dollars. These cuts, we should note, would have a tiny impact on the nation's rising debt.

[11:05:07]

So, you have that, and, at the same time, you have this visit to Alcatraz by Attorney General Pam Bondi.Reopening that, which Trump says he wants, would cost as much as $1 billion. How are you making sense of all of this?

CLARK: I cannot make sense of this split screen that we are seeing, where this administration and the GOP members in Congress continue to cut programs that are important to Americans who are trying to fight the high cost of living, that want to be able to send their kids to good public schools, that want to see a continuation of veterans' benefits.

And then they are looking at these cuts that aren't done surgically. They are done with just broad strokes to have an impact, but at the same time, they are raising taxes and skyrocketing our national debt. So our message to the Republicans and to people at home is let's get back to working for them.

Let's get back to making sure that we are cutting the high cost of living, that we're giving people a chance at the American dream. And what we see in this rescissions package after the horrors of the floods in Texas are cuts to PBS that is often the only place that people can get emergency notifications in rural parts of this country. So what are they doing and what are they thinking with continuing

these cuts that just don't add up for families at home?

BROWN: Just to follow up to better, I'm sure you said they're raising taxes, but the so-called Big Beautiful Bill actually maintained the tax cuts. And if they hadn't passed that, taxes would have been up. So I just want to specify what you meant by that.

CLARK: Yes, and I'm sorry if I misspoke, but the tax cuts that we are seeing are very aimed at the wealthiest Americans. They will receive the lion's share of that tax relief.

And that's permanent. For hardworking people who are looking for relief that they deserve, we join them as Democrats in saying, let's make our tax code work for people who are working. Those are limited and temporary. So we would love to be engaging with Republicans on building a tax code that is fair and that works for working people, but that's not what we're seeing.

We're seeing a GOP that is committed to working for the elites in this country, full stop. While they're taking away health care from 17 million Americans, while we are seeing back to school for families look like a nightmare. We're going to see high costs of clothes and shoes from tariff policies.

We're going to see kids going to school. Half of Americans' children are on Medicaid. This will be the last full school year they have health insurance coverage, school lunches for 30 million kids.

BROWN: Well, not for all them, but, certainly, some will be impacted, according to the CBO, yes, right.

CLARK: Absolutely. Absolutely.

And you can't take a trillion dollars out of health care and say that the kids are going to be all right, never mind the mental health supports that our kids need, all of this while they are undercutting the Department of Education and even holding on and taking away funding that had already been allocated to after-school programs.

I mean, what -- the message to families at home is so clear: You are on your own.

BROWN: I want to ask you to move on to the Jeffrey Epstein files, fallout. As you well know, that has been a big talker this week. Some Democrats are asking for more transparency, as well as Republicans, much to the chagrin of President Trump.

If Democrats were to take the House next year, you would be in line to become the next majority leader. Would you commit to holding hearings on the Justice Department's handling of the Epstein files?

CLARK: I mean, we have already seen Jamie Raskin, our ranking member on Judiciary, saying let's have transparency.

Frankly, our first and foremost priority is going to be affordability and making sure that we are allowing Americans to be able to afford the American dream, whether that's housing, reducing the cost of childcare, reducing the cost of health care.

But we are always committed to transparency. And this whole scandal with Epstein that we have been seeing for the last week is solely caused by the 180 that Donald Trump did. He campaigned that he was going to release this. He had a big moment where he gave these binders to influencers and said they're going to be given the secrets of the files.

[11:10:04]

And now, all of a sudden, they're saying, we don't have any of that, we think this is some sort of Democratic hoax? I think the whole trip to Alcatraz today is to change the topic, change the channel. So let's have transparency. We're always for that.

Let's put the truth before the American people.

BROWN: Let me just ask you, because you did lay out a lot there. But when you look at CNN polling that just came out, it shows that Democrats, they're far more energized than Republicans about next year's midterms, but it's not all good news for the party. Just 28 percent of Americans view Democrats favorably.

That is the lowest for the party since CNN started this polling back in 1992. How concerning are those numbers to you and what are Democrats going to do to try to turn that around?

CLARK: You know, Democrats are absolutely focused on making sure that families at home know who's fighting for them. And it's why you are seeing the other polls that we are watching are the big ugly bill.

This landmark bill that was Donald Trump's legacy piece, signature piece of legislation, is wildly unpopular. And we are going to continue to go around the country, not just to blue spots, Democratic places, but to places like rural Mississippi, where I was recently, talking about the impact when we close 300 rural hospitals in that country, what it will mean to people for access to health care for them, when we're looking at a quarter of all nursing homes closing.

We're talking about people having to bring their aging parents back into their homes to provide the care they need. When 60 percent of households are telling us they're not making it, this is our message to the American people. We see what you're going through and we are going to work if we win the majority back every single day to make sure that you can get to that first rung of the American dream, and that you can have people who are working for solutions.

What we have seen from this administration and this majority is they are making life more expensive for people. They are going to make them sicker. And it is taking away benefits from people who so deserve it, like our children and our veterans. It is upside down for the American people and Democrats are committed to righting that ship.

BROWN: Yes, well, we will see how it all plays out. You know Republicans are saying the most vulnerable won't be impacted, it's about waste fraud and abuse. But we are all going to be seeing how this plays out, for sure.

Congresswoman Clark, thank you so much.

CLARK: Thank you, Pamela.

BROWN: Appreciate it -- Wolf.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Thanks very much for coming in on your birthday. Happy birthday.

BROWN: Yes.

CLARK: Thank you.

BLITZER: There's breaking news coming into CNN right now.

Republicans on the Senate Judiciary Committee have just voted to advance a Trump judicial nominee after Democrats abruptly walked out of the hearing. Emil Bove is the attorney tied to some of the president's most aggressive legal moves through the Justice Department. He also defended Trump in a pair of federal criminal cases.

He's now been nominated to be a federal judge, but Bove's record has Democrats, hundreds of former Department of Justice lawyers and dozens of former judges all opposing his nomination.

Let's go to our chief congressional correspondent, Manu Raju, up on Capitol Hill.

So, Manu, what led to this walkout?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this has been a very contentious nomination fight that ultimately led to all Democrats who sit on the Senate Judiciary Committee to abruptly walk out as they were objecting to Bove's nomination to a very powerful appellate court.

Right now, he's the number three official at the Justice Department. He was Trump's personal lawyer, but it was a number of things that he has done over the last -- over his time in office or time working with Donald Trump that has caused concerns among Democrats.

Among the things that he's done, he led the investigation into the January 6 prosecutors. He pushed for those charges against New York City Mayor Eric Adams to be dropped. A whistle-blower also alleged that Bove told his team to ignore court orders with all the deportation flights that were going and sending those migrants to that prison in El Salvador.

Now, Bove has defended his record, has pushed back against some of those allegations, Republicans also pushing back amid all of this, but what happened in this hearing today occurred when Cory Booker, the senator from New Jersey, the Democrat, was railing against this nomination and Democrats decided to walk out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CORY BOOKER (D-NJ): But you have to follow the precedents and procedures of this committee. This is outrageous that you're not allowing senators to have their fair say before a controversial nominee is being done. This is unbelievable. This is unjust. This is wrong. It is the further deterioration of this committee's integrity with a person like this.

[11:15:03]

What are you afraid of? Are you afraid of hearing from Chris Coons, from hearing from one of my colleagues, from hearing from Adam Schiff? What is the fear here? Have at least the decency to have a vote on my point of order regarding rule four. I have respect for you, Mr. Chairman. We have served together for more than a decade, but this is outrageous.

This is unacceptable. This is wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So the chairman of the committee, Chuck Grassley, defended his decision to call that vote. He said what happened here was no different than what Democrats had done in a separate manner back in 2023 when they were in the Senate majority.

And now the question is going to be whether or not this is a legitimate or illegitimate vote. Democrats say this was illegitimate. They say there was not a proper quorum. Republicans say this was a legitimate vote. That's going to be a question for the Senate rules keepers to decide.

But, nevertheless, Republicans have the vote, Wolf, and if they want to press ahead and if they can keep defections to less than three on the Senate floor, ultimately, Bove will get confirmed.

BLITZER: All right. We will see what happens. Manu Raju up on Capitol Hill, thank you very much -- Pamela.

BROWN: All right, Wolf, for weeks, President Trump has teased the idea of firing the Federal Reserve chairman. The president says Jerome Powell isn't doing his job, but if Trump fired Powell, how could that affect you? We will take a look at the possible impact.

BLITZER: Plus, this: how strikes on Syria could play into Israel's broader ambitions for the Middle East.

Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

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[11:20:57]

BLITZER: New this morning, an Israeli security source telling CNN there have been no overnight crossings from the Israeli-occupied Golan Heights into Syria, that after Israel launched a series of strikes on the Syrian capital of Damascus.

Israel says it's defending the Druze population, an Arab minority group in Syria that's been clashing with Syrian government forces. Israel's military says hundreds of Druze had crossed over from the Golan Heights just yesterday and called, asked for Israeli support.

Joining us now is CNN political and national security analyst David Sanger. He's also a White House and national security correspondent for "The New York Times."

David, thanks so much for joining us.

Israel says it will reinforce the barriers along the boundary into Syria. How important is it that there were no crossings overnight?

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, I think it indicates that everybody is trying to de-escalate here a little bit.

Look, the Trump administration was not happy with what the Israelis did here. And you could see it in the statement that Secretary of State Rubio turned out. Of course, this is just a week after Prime Minister Netanyahu was in Washington celebrating the Iran attacks, the joint Iran attacks with President Trump.

And the problem here is that the United States and Israel seem to be on different agendas. The U.S. is trying to embrace a new Syrian government, even though it's made up of former terrorist group members. And they're trying to do everything they can to lift sanctions on Syria and try to draw them more toward the West.

And so having this clash, the sectarian clash in which the Israelis not only bombed the area, but then bombed Damascus, is not exactly like along with the plan.

BLITZER: Syria says it's withdrawing troops from a flash point southern city after days of deadly clashes. Do you believe this cease- fire will hold?

SANGER: Hard to tell.

Obviously, this was a sectarian split. And the Israelis say they were protecting the Druze population there and Israeli Druze who had gone over the border. The Israelis, of course, are trying to keep that part of Syria completely demilitarized so it's not a threat to the Golan Heights.

I don't know whether this will hold. I suspect it probably can. But it does suggest this disconnective strategy. And that's really the bigger issue that I think the Trump administration's got to address, because they can't on the one hand be trying to bring the Syrian government into the fold and, on the other hand, have the Israelis bombing them in the capital. BLITZER: This is one of the first major tests for Syria's new

president and his government since toppling the Bashar al-Assad regime back in December. Does that raise the volatility of this confrontation?

SANGER: No, it certainly does.

And until now, President al-Sharaa, who condemned the Israelis for this attack, has been doing pretty much the right things for bringing in the West, bringing in aid, getting the sanctions lifted.

And so the question here is, how far will he go? And, obviously, his own government is relatively fragile here. So that's the core of the problem. And it tells you that the Trump administration has not yet gotten the allies in the region, particularly Israel, all on the same page about how they're approaching this.

[11:25:00]

BLITZER: Does this further destabilize, David, a Middle East region that already is dealing with the Israel-Hamas war and the U.S. airstrikes on Iran's nuclear facilities?

SANGER: It certainly does. I mean, they need Syria to be part of the solution here, not to be part of the chaos.

And we're still in a very delicate moment with Iran. The president came out after the attacks and said two things, one, that the nuclear program was completely obliterated. We now think that was wrong. It was a bit of an overstatement. Parts of it, areas including the Fordow plant, I think were very severely damaged.

But there is good evidence that the Israelis have cited when they were in Washington last week that the nuclear fuel survived. So right now we're still at a position where the Iranians could try to take their nuclear program underground.

And so what the U.S. wants to do is focus on that and not have Syria in significant chaos. Remember, under the previous government, Syria was one of the best things the Iranians had going. So, making sure that the Syrian government is on the Western side and rejecting the Iranians is pretty key to keeping the region in some form of restored stability.

BLITZER: And, David, very quickly, because we're almost out of time, but does the U.S. government, the Trump administration not accept the Israeli explanation that they have done all these activities in Syria right now to protect the Syrian Druze community, which, of course, is close to the Israeli Druze community?

SANGER: So I think that that was probably the proximate cause for this.

I mean, and that argument, I see how they could sustain, but it's a little bit difficult to then explain why they were bombing in Damascus, not simply in the region where the Druze were under attack. And there was some absence of communication about whether or not the military was, in fact, the Syrian military was attacking the Druze and why that was happening.

So there's a lot of facts on the ground we're having a hard time sorting out still.

BLITZER: All right, David Sanger helping us appreciate what's going on, very significant development, thank you very, very much -- Pamela.

BROWN: All right, Wolf, up next: President Trump is indeed mixed signals about whether he'd fire Fed Chair Jerome Powell.

We're looking at the potential political and economic fallout if he actually went through with it straight ahead.

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