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GOP Lawmakers at Odds Amid Jeffrey Epstein Fallout; Trump and Keir Starmer Discuss Gaza Starvation Crisis; Israeli Military Officials Say There's No Proof That Hamas Routinely Stole Aid. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired July 28, 2025 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: As President Trump looks to move on from the Jeffrey Epstein case during his trip abroad, Republican divisions here at home appear to be getting even deeper. Some members of his own Republican party not only amping up calls to release the so-called Epstein files, but accusing his Trump administration of not delivering on its promises. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. THOMAS MASSIE (R-KY): We all thought that when Trump was elected, he would be the bull in the China shop and that he would break that up and bring transparency. Frankly, it wasn't until just recently that I realized that people who were allegedly working on this weren't sincere in their efforts.

REP. ERIC BURLISON (R-MO): Part of this problem is that there were some false expectations that are created, and that's a political mistake. I think that, you know, saying that you're going to be able to deliver when you haven't even looked at all of the files and what's available was probably a misstep.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: CNN Congressional Correspondent Lauren Fox is here with me in the Situation Room. Lauren, walk us through where things stand now.

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, certainly lawmakers are on this five-week recess at this point. The speaker clearly wanted to move beyond this last week, and yet Republicans in the House are still talking about this. You hear from Thomas Massey there, you hear from Eric Burlison, making clear that they feel like Donald Trump and the Trump administration perhaps has made a political miscalculation when it comes to the promises that were made related to the Epstein files and what they've been able to deliver up to this point.

Meanwhile, you have the speaker of the house who's carefully trying to make sure that he is in the right place with his conference and in the right place with the president, and you can guess that there is a lot of tension there between where he wants to be. He was asked over the weekend what he thought about potentially absolving Ghislaine Maxwell of her crimes, and this is what he said yesterday. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), HOUSE SPEAKER: If you're asking my opinion, I think 20 years was a pittance. I think she should have a life sentence at least. I mean, think of all these unspeakable crimes. And as you noted earlier, probably a thousand victims. I mean, you know, this is -- it's hard to put into words how evil this was and that she orchestrated it and was a big part of it, at least in -- under the criminal sanction, I think is an unforgivable thing. So, again, not my decision, but I have great pause about that as any reasonable person would.

[10:35:00]

FOX: Now, the Oversight Subcommittee actually voted on a series of subpoenas last week, Wolf. Those subpoenas have not gone out yet. I just checked with the source this morning. So, there's a lot of questions over how quickly that process could be moving, even though there is this loud drumbeat in the House Conservative Conference.

BLITZER: No sense that this issue is going away --

FOX: Absolutely.

BLITZER: -- not by any means. Means. All right. Lauren Fox, thank you very, very much. Joining us now, CNN, Senior Political and Global Affairs Commentator Rahm Emanuel. He was White House chief of staff under President Obama and President Biden's ambassador to Japan. Rahm, thanks so much for joining us.

Do you think Democrats, your party, will be able to capitalize on the Republican divide over the entire Epstein files?

RAHM EMANUEL, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL AND GLOBAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR AND FORMER OBAMA WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Yes. I mean, in the short end you have basically -- every time President Trump is not on the ticket there's a turnout problem for the Republicans, and this issue is going to further depress turnout. While we have seen since November heightened interest by Democratic primary voters and independents breaking two to one for Democrats.

I think this is clearly not only blocking their agenda, but more importantly, suppressing their voter turnout and interest. They have a closed ecosystem when it comes to information, and the president's caught in that house of mirrors right now and is his administration on this Epstein file. And as noted earlier, they raised expectations and under-delivered and nothing angers people more than that.

BLITZER: On another very sensitive issue that I know you're following closely, Rahm, the very desperate hunger crisis in Gaza right now. Israel, on Sunday, eased restrictions and allowed in some more truckloads of humanitarian aid, but the number of deaths from starvation is still climbing. How does this crisis get resolved?

EMANUEL: Well, let me get to core point. This is a reflection of the fact that Prime Minister Netanyahu's strategy is bankrupt. And the fact is he, just the other day, said that there is no -- or just yesterday said, there's no hunger or starvation in Gaza. And yet, you have reports of children dying from starvation by international organizations, not Hamas related organizations. There is starvation there.

And he was warned 18 months ago, you have to have a day after plan. The idea that you're calling Israeli soldiers up on the third or fourth tour of duty to shoot at hungry people trying to get food shows you how bankrupt this entire policy is. And the fact is, there's no plan for this. It has nothing to do with Israel's security.

You need to get food in to that area, Gaza, to feed the people there and stop enforcing some type of collective punishment on the people of Gaza is part of some strategic plan of which there isn't. And the prime minister is -- was warned a long time ago.

So, international organizations need to be back in that area, you can actually dive -- split Hamas from those organizations. Fundamentally, it's a responsibility to feed the people. They have done -- Israel has done their job on deterrence. This is diminishing returns. And everything I just said has been supported by the leadership of the IDF and Israel's security apparatus. This is strategically bankrupt.

Now, on Friday nights when you do Sabbath and the prayer is over the candles, the wine and the hallow bread, I have never remembered the prayer for starving children, that Israel is participating in this, perpetuating it, wrong on every level.\

BLITZER: So, you're blaming Israel for what's going on in Gaza?

EMANUEL: They are responsible. They are the military power in there. That is what was warned. Literally, when this effort started you have to have a day after plan. And in this case, they don't have a day after plan and it's revealed to the world to see. The emperor has no cloths. The -- and the IDF security apparatus has already told the prime minister that. They kicked the international organizations out that were responsible.

There's a trade-off that every leadership needs. I understand that they wanted to not allow Hamas in on that process. But as noted by the IDF itself, Hamas doesn't make financial gains there. Yes, I am putting this at the doorstep of where it belongs. And the idea, the prime minister, just yesterday says, there's no starvation, people's eyes do not lie to them.

And so, I think the -- in this case, from a strategic standpoint, from a moral standpoint, and from a political standpoint, it's fully bankrupt. You know, von Clausewitz, the great military strategist, once said, war is an extension of politics by other means. Well, in this case, war is a cruel twist to that. War is an extension of coalition politics by other means.

This is only about his coalition government and it's strategically bankrupt, and the Israeli public and the Israeli security apparatus knows it.

[10:40:00]

BLITZER: Very strong words from Rahm Emanuel. Thank you very much for joining us.

EMANUEL: Thank you.

BLITZER: And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Happening now, President Trump and the British prime minister, Keir Starmer, are holding a bilateral meeting with the crisis in Gaza very much at the top of their agenda. Joining us now, the former Middle East negotiator over at the State Department, Aaron David Miller. He is now a Carnegie Endowment senior fellow. Aaron, thanks very much for joining us.

As I'm sure you read in The New York Times, the Times is reporting, and I'm quoting now from that article this, "The Israeli military never found proof that the Palestinian militant group had systematically stolen aid from the United Nations, the biggest supplier of emergency assistance to Gaza for most of the war."

[10:45:00]

The Times article continues, "According to two senior Israeli military officials and two other Israelis involved in the matter. In fact, the Israeli military officials said the U.N. aid delivery system, which Israel derided and undermined, was largely effective in providing food to Gaza's desperate and hungry population," close quote.

The time says Netanyahu's office didn't respond to a request for comment. But as you know, both President Trump and Prime Minister Netanyahu continue to claim that Hamas was stealing aid that was being brought in. Why do you think that is?

AARON DAVID MILLER, FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT MIDDLE EAST NEGOTIATOR AND SENIOR FELLOW, CARNEGIE ENDOWMENT FOR INTERNATIONAL PEACE: Well, I think each -- in each leader Wolf -- and thanks for having me -- has a different set of rationalizations and motives. I think the prime minister of Israel is now under increasing pressure. He's freed from dissolution of the Knesset for the next three months until the Knesset resumed session on October 19th after the Jewish holidays. But for Netanyahu, pressure is increasing. And frankly, he has no good explanation. He's presiding over the most right-wing government in Israel's history with two extremist ministers who have threatened to bolt and not only don't want to see any aid in the Gaza, Wolf, but who fundamentally believe that there shouldn't -- there should be a Gaza free of Palestinians.

A recent (INAUDIBLE) poll suggest that 64 percent of the Israeli public either doesn't care or cares very little about the issue of humanitarian assistance for Gaza. So, the pressure for Netanyahu now is coming from his coalition, and it is supported by an Israeli public angered traumatized by October 7th that frankly hasn't devoted much attention or regard for what's happening in Gaza. And what's happening in Gaza, Wolf is any definition a catastrophe, much of which could be -- could have been avoided.

BLITZER: President Trump, Aaron, was asked this morning if he agreed with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's comments that there was no starvation in Gaza. This is how the president responded. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I don't know. I mean, based on television, I would say not particularly. Those children look very hungry. But we're giving a lot of money and a lot of food. And other nations are now stepping up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Do you think we could be seeing some daylight emerging between President Trump and Prime Minister Netanyahu on the issue of the aid crisis in Gaza?

MILLER: I think yes, and I certainly hope so. The Biden administration actually, Wolf, had relative success in this one area. There would not have been an iota, scintilla of assistance getting into Gaza over the last 18 months had it not been for Joe Biden's pressure and focus on this issue. But the reality is, under six months of Donald Trump and with Israeli cooperation, you have something, a concoction called the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, which is delivered maybe 80 million meals, that's one meal a day for each individual, but the cost, Wolf, has been exorbitant in terms of Palestinian deaths. You have large numbers of Palestinians crowded into sites, opened for a very limited period of time in the proximity of Israeli forces and soldiers.

And it seems to me, the Israeli sources suggest this as well, that fire control is broken down and the Israelis, whether they're under pressure or what -- for whatever reason, have fired on unarmed Palestinians. And you've got, what, 800 by some -- telling a thousand Palestinians dead since the beginning of this administration. So, you need a strategy.

Just one additional point, Wolf. And Rahm made it I think pretty strongly. Another Israeli prime minister, Wolf, and you know them all. Ehud Olmert, Ehud Barak, Yitzhak Rabin might have responded to October 7th the same way the Israelis did, but months into this war, none of them would've essentially abandoned the reality that military power is a means to an end.

And you need a day after, you need a political strategy. And that's something you don't have. And it's largely a consequence of the fact that for the first time in Israel's history, you have an Israeli prime minister on trial for bribery, fraud, and breach of trust in a Jerusalem district court four years and running with no accountability and frankly, no intention. In my judgment, speaking not as an Israeli, but as American, as a human, to put more emphasis on avenging the dead when it comes to hostages than on redeeming the living and creating a sensible policy to spare the lives of hundreds of thousands of Palestinian civilians it's a tragedy, Wolf. But unlike many tragedies, this one could have been avoided. [10:50:00]

BLITZER: Aaron, if Prime Minister Netanyahu doesn't believe there is starvation, there's a starvation crisis in Gaza, why do you think he is now allowing for this -- what he calls this tactical pause, to allow more aid to get into Gaza?

MILLER: I mean, I think even Netanyahu -- and I don't think -- I had read that the president's comment, I hadn't -- I didn't hear him say it, but I read the transcript, said basically -- president of the United States says you can't fake starvation. That's Donald Trump, who frankly is not a humanitarian, Wolf.

I think that prime minister -- even Prime Minister Netanyahu understands and knows that, in effect, he has to remain on Trump's good side. And he's at least preempting by adopting these measures, they're useful, they could actually be extremely important if in fact the headline, Wolf, becomes a trend line and these measures, humanitarian pauses, facilitating human -- aid on the part of the World Food programme and other U.N. groups in Gaza could actually make a difference.

BLITZER: Aaron David Miller, thanks as usual for joining us.

MILLER: Thanks for having me, Wolf.

BLITZER: And coming up, forced out of the plane on the runway. Scary moments, very scary moments for passengers in Denver. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:55:00]

BLITZER: Happening now, the FAA is investigating a possible landing gear incident in Denver that forced more than 150 people to evacuate the plane on the tarmac. Take a look at this video showing passengers with their luggage after they slid off the American Airlines flight. This happened after the plane caught fire during takeoff on Saturday. At least one person was injured.

Our Aviation Correspondent Pete Muntean is here with me in the Situation Room. Tell our viewers what happened.

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, this evacuation took place while the plane was still on the runway, not on the tarmac itself, but as this plane was about to take off. You know, good job to the pilots for the ordering the evacuation, the flight attendants for executing it. And the airport firefighting crews who were responding here.

But the video shows some key takeaways for passengers. You can see there many passengers going down those evacuation slides with their bags with them. That slows down the evacuation. It's really critical, especially in a fire like this, when seconds count and it could lead to people being trapped and killed in the airplane. Now, the details are still emerging on this incident. We know that this happened as American Flight 3023 was accelerating for takeoff. They're in Denver. The video shows that Boeing 737 MAX 8 leaning to the left or screen right and airport fire crews tell CNN that a tire burst on takeoff causing the brakes of the airplane to catch fire, though other reports say the left main landing gear collapsed. American Airlines simply calling this a maintenance issue.

We do know that the plane was lined up to takeoff on Denver's runway 34 left, the plane accelerated to about 130 miles an hour according to publicly available data from ADSB exchange. That's pretty fast. Just shy of the speed at which the airplane's ready for takeoff called rotation speed. That's when the pilots radioed that they were aborting the takeoff. Controllers in the air traffic control tower there in Denver said they did see flames at one point emerging from this airplane.

Remember, this is the second incident this year involving an American Airline 737 on fire on the ground in Denver. There was that dramatic evacuation onto the wing back in March and now, this new incident on Saturday, Wolf. Pretty incredible though that everybody escaped from their -- with their lives and not much --

BLITZER: And the pilot always says that if you have to go down those slides, don't bring any hand luggage. Don't bring any backpacks. Don't bring anything.

MUNTEAN: It's always important to leave things behind, especially because it just slows things down. If you're going to grab for your bags or if you're going down the slides, always follow the crew instructions. And my flight attendant friends and sources tell me this is something that's really important to reinforce to folks. Pretty much everyone nowadays can get by with their iPhone for about a day and the airline will then get your stuff later.

BLITZER: If there's money or valuables, a jewelry in your purse --

MUNTEAN: It's a tough rub.

BLITZER: -- you're going to want to bring your purse or if there's an iPad that you got to bring, you want to bring that as well.

MUNTEAN: It's a tough rub, but the best things to leave it behind.

BLITZER: Leave it behind. Better to save your life and the life of other passengers.

MUNTEAN: That's right.

BLITZER: Indeed. Pete Muntean, as usual, thank you very, very much. Coming up after the break, a couple stabbed to death on a hiking trail in Arkansas. Now, the search is on for a suspect. The newly released audio for first responders, we have that and that's next.

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