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Texas Democrats Rally With New York Governor Against GOP Redistricting Effort; White House Defends Trump's Firing of Labor Stats Chief; Wall Street Rebounding from Friday's Steep Losses. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired August 04, 2025 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, battle lines drawn, Texas Democrats leaving the state. The Republican governor now threatening to remove them and possibly charge them with felonies, all over redistricting.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Plus one-on-one in the situation room. The House Democratic leader, Hakeem Jeffries, will join me live next hour. We'll hear his response to Governor Abbott's threats to Texas Democrats.

Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer with Pamela Brown, and you're in The Situation Room.

Happening now, Texas Democrats trading Austin for Boston, Chicago, and New York to deny their Republican control legislature a vote on a new Congressional map. Democrats say the proposed districts are gerrymandered to boost Republicans' chances of winning greater control of the U.S. Congress. But Republicans argue the move is about political competition.

CNNs Senior National correspondent Ed Lavandera is in Austin, Texas, for us. Ed what have you heard from Republican officials today about how they plan to handle Democratic lawmakers who have now left the state?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Republican lawmakers are incredibly angry about what Texas Democrats are doing. You have Texas Governor, Republican Greg Abbott threatening to remove the Democrats who have left the state of Texas with removal from office. Democrats pushed back saying that the governor does not have the authority or the legal authority to be able to do that. You have the A.G. and several other members also saying that these Democrats should be arrested and brought back here to the Capitol. It's not clear whether or not that could actually happen outside of the state.

But the speaker of the House here in Texas, Wolf, can issue arrest civil arrest warrants for the Texas Democrats who have left the state. But that wouldn't happen until after the legislative body tries to convene here at 3:00 Central Time. So, everything pushing toward this 3:00 hour when the House is expected to reconvene here in Austin, Texas. At that point, there will not be a quorum to continue doing business, and everything will grind to a halt. So, that is what everyone here in Austin is looking toward here over the next few hours.

Democrats know that they ultimately don't have the votes to be able to stop this redistricting bill effort at any point. The governor can continue to call a special session after special session. And there are about two weeks left in the current legislative special session. But Democrats know that they are going to places, like Chicago, Albany, and Boston, to ratchet up pressure on the Republicans here in Texas. They believe that they have the moral high ground. Republicans are simply calling them and cowards for avoiding doing their job here in Austin. Wolf?

BLITZER: And they can't vote unless there's a quorum. So, you need Democrats in the state in order to participate in that quorum.

Ed Lavandera, thank you very much.

Next hour, I'll speak live to the House Democratic leader, Hakeem Jeffries, about the Texas redistricting fight and what it means for the next session of the House of Representatives, potentially. Pamela?

BROWN: All right, new this morning --

BLITZER: Good to have you back in The Situation Room.

BROWN: It's good to be back with you, Wolf.

And new this morning, the White House is defending President Trump's controversial decision to fire the chief statistician in charge of a monthly jobs report. Trump abruptly fired Erika McEntarfer on Friday, just hours after a government report showed that hiring slowed dramatically over the last three months. Without citing any evidence, the president said the numbers were manipulated.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: We'll be announcing a new statistician sometime over the next three, four days. We had no confidence -- I mean, the numbers were ridiculous, which she announced.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: CNN's Alayna Treene is at the White House. Alayna, so what is going on with the administration this morning? How is it defending itself?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes. Well first of all, Pam, I just want to say too, some of the reason you're hearing the president say that, I'd remind you that on Friday when he made some of those comments, saying that he was firing the head of BLS, it was because there were worse than expected jobs report numbers. In my conversations with people here at the White House, they said what the president really got angered by and what he took issue with was this idea of the revision, some of the data that has been revised, particularly seeing that those numbers revised down from May and June.

[10:05:04]

And that's what has him so angry and what ultimately led to the firing of the commissioner.

Now, we did hear Kevin Hassett, the director of the National Economic Council, try to defend the president this morning and argue that this data, the jobs data, is unreliable. Take a listen to how we put it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEVIN HASSETT, DIRECTOR, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL COUNCIL: As an economist, I like to go for what I can prove and what I can prove is that the data have become very unreliable.

They could be politically manipulated because they're so untransparent. There's a black box system out there making the jobs numbers that needs to be improved.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TREENE: So, again, you can kind of hear Hasid there on CNBC arguing the same thing, that the revisions -- you know, you shouldn't have that many revisions when it comes to jobs numbers.

But I want to argue something as well. I want to remind you that we have seen this administration in the White House, including Kevin Hassett, celebrate the jobs data in the months before when the jobs reports were looking good for the Trump administration, showing more jobs, adding, doing better than expected. It wasn't until the report was bad and the president saw, you know, data showing that the economy is slowing, that we saw all of this criticism really kind of, you know, gear its head on this.

Now, another thing we saw this morning, because we know some Democrats are now calling for an investigation into all of this, we saw Senate minority Leader Senator Chuck Schumer, he actually called on Kevin Hassett to be fired this morning. He said, Kevin Hassett should be fired. He's defending Trump's lies about the jobs reports.

Look, we did hear Hassett also respond to that this morning arguing that, you know, the president's not going to go rush out and fire him because, you know, he doesn't have high regard for Chuck Schumer. All to say this is something that is clearly garnering a lot of criticism and a lot of eyeballs, particularly because this role, the Bureau of Labor Statistics, is supposed to be impartial. And so people are a little bit worried about what this could mean for the future of that agency.

BROWN: All right. Alayna Treene, thanks so much. Wolf?

BLITZER: Happening now, Wall Street is bouncing back from Friday's steep losses. A weak jobs report, and growing concerns about the economy triggered the selloff. I want to go live right now to CNN Business and Politics Correspondent Vanessa Yurkevich. She is joining us from New York. Vanessa, the opening bell rang just about a half-an-hour or so ago. Where do the market stand right now?

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Well, we are seeing Wall Street very much in recovery mode after Friday's very, very volatile trading session. Essentially, investors were hit with a reality check on Friday, but you can see this morning you have the Dow up about almost 400 points after dropping about 500 points on Friday. The S&P and the NASDAQ posted their biggest single day losses on Fridays since the months of May and April, and really broke a two-week winning streak that Wall Street was on.

Investors I've been speaking with this morning say on the trade front, yes, there's maybe a little more certainty because they know what the tariff rates are with countries. However, they've seen it before, things can change on a moment's notice. And that is why they are very much pricing in some ups and downs to come with the markets.

Now, on that big jobs report on Friday that showed really dismal numbers and the revisions that Alayna was speaking to, that is still of a little bit of concern to investors. They are really seeing that companies are really putting a freeze on hiring. Not much movement there as companies really are trying to wait and see what happens more certainty they're looking for in the job market.

What we do know, though, Wolf, is investors are very much pricing in a rate cut from the Fed in September. 85 percent of investors now believe that a rate cut will come in September, Wolf. That is the highest percentage that we've seen now in a month. Wolf?

BLITZER: Interesting. All right, Vanessa Yurkevich in New York for us, thank you very, very much. Pamela?

BROWN: Wolf, happening now, a manhunt in Montana for an accused killer. Authorities have locked down part of a national forest as they look for the suspect. Michael Paul Brown is accused of walking into a bar Friday morning and gunning down these four people. All of them lived in the town of Anaconda. Authorities warned that Brown is armed and dangerous.

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AUSTIN KNUDSEN, MONTANA ATTORNEY GENERAL: There's concerns he might come back into town. This is -- by all indications, this is an unstable individual who walked in and murdered four people in cold blood for no reason, whatsoever. So, there absolutely is concern for the public.

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BROWN: Brown's family says he's an Army veteran who has struggle with mental health issues. His niece tells CNN that he wasn't the same after his military service, which included a deployment to Iraq 20 years ago. BLITZER: All right, Pamela. Also new this morning, Republican Congresswoman Nancy Mace has announced her bid for South Carolina governor. The self-described Republican firebrand made the announcement at the Citadel. In 1999, she became the first woman to graduate from that military college.

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REP. NANCY MACE (R-SC): And I learned right here at the Citadel how to hold the line, no matter the odds. And now I'm ready to hold the line for something bigger, and that means putting South Carolinians first. That means putting your families first, putting our workers first, putting our laws first and our values first.

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BLITZER: Nancy Mace is serving her third term in Congress. She enters a crowded Republican field with several other Republicans launching their campaigns as well. Pamela?

BROWN: Well, Wolf, knew this morning, the Kremlin says it is open to a meeting between Vladimir Putin and U.S. Special Envoy Steve Witkoff. He's expected to visit Moscow later this week. President Trump set a Friday deadline for Moscow to come up with a deal for a ceasefire in Ukraine or face new sanctions.

CNN Senior International Correspondent Fred Pleitgen is in Moscow. So, Fred, what do we expect from this meeting if it goes ahead?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the Russians certainly say that social media would be extremely important for them. It's been quite interesting because state media here, Pamela, has been saying that they believe that the meeting is going to take place or that Steve Witkoff is going to come here to Moscow on August 6th, citing several sources. We've yet to have that confirmed by the White House.

The Kremlin is saying that Steve Witkoff is obviously always very welcome here in Moscow, and they also believe that right now are very important diplomatic ties between the United States and Russia. Of course, with that sort of escalation that we've been seeing over the past couple of years, the days, and especially with those threats of those massive sanctions, should there not be a ceasefire in Ukraine by the end of the week.

So, certainly, the Kremlin seemed to be taking that very seriously, at the same time saying that they welcome Steve Witkoff anytime that he chooses to come here. But at the same time, Pamela, we do have to say that there have been other Russian politicians who have come out and said, look, even if Steve Witkoff comes here to Moscow, not to expect too much from a meeting like that.

Vladimir Putin, of course, over the past couple of days has been very clear that Russia is going to continue what it's still called its special military operation in Ukraine. The Russians, of course, have been saying that they have been making significant gains over the past couple of months. Pamela?

BROWN: All right. And, Fred, I want viewers to have a listen to what President Trump just said yesterday about U.S nuclear submarines being repositioned.

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TRUMP: I've already put out a statement and the answer is they are in the region, yes, where they have to be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So, what is the Kremlin saying?

PLEITGEN: Yes, it's a pretty touchy subject actually here in Moscow. And there was a call earlier today with the Kremlin spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, and members of the press where the Russians really seem to be trying to tone things down as far as that's concerned. Peskov there saying, the Kremlin spokesman, that they realize that U.S. subs are always on combat duty, as he put it, therefore, saying that President Trump's words to them are not an escalation. At the same time, the Kremlin also warning and saying, look, if there is a nuclear confrontation, there certainly wouldn't be any winners. And the Russians are saying that they want to maintain what they call a responsible position in all of this and not comment President Trump's words. Pamela?

BROWN: All right. Fred Pleitgen in Moscow, thank you so much. Wolf? And also happening now, Speaker Mike Johnson is in Israel with a delegation of House Republicans. They met with Israel's foreign minister and defense minister. Johnson's visit comes after Hamas released a video showing hostage Evyatar David looking very frail and emaciated.

His brother spoke Saturday at a rally in Tel Aviv and demanded the hostages be released immediately.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ILAY DAVID, BROTHER OF GAZA HOSTAGE EVYATAR DAVID: They are on the absolute brink of death. In their current unimaginable condition, they may have only days left to live. Hamas is using Evyatar in one of the most horrific and calculated campaigns of cruelty imaginable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: CNN Senior International Correspondent Ben Wedeman is joining us right now, Ben, after seeing that video, awful video, Prime Minister Netanyahu requested that the Red Cross help in getting aid to the Israeli hostages, but Hamas has conditions for that. What's the latest?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So, what we heard -- that's what we heard from Prime Minister Netanyahu. Now, the Red Cross says that it would be very difficult to gain access to the hostages, given the fact that there is an ongoing war in Gaza. They said they need a ceasefire.

Now, Hamas is saying that they're willing to consider improving the conditions of the hostages, but, first, the situation, the starvation crisis in Gaza has to end.

Now, we did hear Prime Minister Netanyahu saying that he wants to resolve the hostage crisis through military means. We understand he's going to have a cabinet meeting later this week to discuss those military means.

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But, increasingly, what we're seeing is that there's a feeling that negotiations are probably going to be far more fruitful. They have been in the past in terms of freeing hostages as opposed to military action. And today, we saw an unprecedented statement from 600 retired Israeli security officials, including three chiefs of staff, four former Shin Bet directors, three former Mossad chiefs, five former police commissioners, and four former heads of military intelligence, in which they said, it is our professional judgment that Hamas no longer poses a strategic threat to Israel. They want the United States, in particular, President Trump, to put direct pressure on Prime Minister Netanyahu to bring this war to an end, which they hope would also coincide with the release of the hostages. A military solution, they say, simply isn't going to work.

BLITZER: Very significant statement from those former Israeli military leaders.

Ben Wedeman, thank you very, very much. Pamela?

BROWN: All right. Coming up, Wolf, I'll speak to a Texas lawmaker who left the state to protest the GOP proposed Congressional map. What does she think of the attorney general's threat to have her and her colleagues arrested?

BLITZER: Plus, the hunt for disloyalty, new CNN reporting takes you inside far right activist Laura Loomer's quest to root out government officials she thinks that those officials are working against President Trump. That's ahead. We're live right here in The Situation Room.

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BROWN: Happening now, Democratic state lawmakers from Texas are in New York for a meeting with Governor Kathy Hochul. It's all part of their effort to block Republicans in the Lone Star State from redrawing Congressional lines. Democrats argue the new maps could eliminate five of their House seats in Washington and give Republicans a larger majority to pass President Trump's agenda. Republicans argue this is about political competition and has nothing to do with racial gerrymandering. Texas Democratic Representative Ann Johnson joins us from Chicago. She went there to keep the legislature in Austin from advancing the GOP's plan. Thank you for joining us.

So, Governor Greg Abbott has threatened to remove you and your colleagues if you don't return by this afternoon, and Attorney General Ken Paxton is calling for arrests, saying the state should, quote, hunt down those who think they're above the law. Does that worry you at all?

STATE REP. ANN JOHNSON (D-TX): I mean, I think it shows how desperate they are. I'm not surprised that they would levy these threats because I realize my colleagues have fallen victim to them. When Trump threatened to primary them and have them lose their seats, if he wouldn't give what he wanted on public education and vouchers, they did it.

And so now Trump has again said he wants Greg Abbott and Texas Republicans to give him five Congressional seats because he is afraid of voters in November of 2026, and they again have said they'll give it.

Quorum break is an extraordinary act. It is not anything I take lightly. It is almost a last tool that I have available to us in the Texas Constitution placed here by the founding fathers for the minority party when you know that the majority has gone off the rails and is doing something in violation of every constituency. And so I don't take this lightly. But I also know that the threats that are making is just, shows how desperate they are. But I don't expect Democrats to be on the floor at 3:00 to give them a quorum.

BROWN: And we should note this is not your first time participating in a quorum break. You were part of one in 2021 when Texas Democrats tried to block a bill. Your party argued restricted voting access. That lasted six weeks, but ultimately failed, and the bill did pass. What makes you think the tactic will work this time?

JOHNSON: Well, just as a Texan and a football fan, everybody knows when the other team is first and goal at the one, you don't pull your defense. You play the play. And right now, we are in a special session, when Texans are hurting because of flood and other issues. And that's not what Republicans want to talk about. We have been there for more than two weeks and they have brought forth one bill and one bill only, despite the issues facing everyday Texans, and it's Trump's steal of five Congressional seats. That's all they care about.

And so our goal as Texas Democrats is to stand up, ensure that they don't do this steal and to break this quorum for this session. It is up to Governor Abbott if he wants to call us back. It is his choice. Does he serve Trump or does he serve the people of Texas? And so he gets to decide what the next play is, what the next move is.

But you're right, they can continue these threats, and I want to make sure it's very clear what they are saying to me personally is that if I'll show up, sit in my seat and be quiet at 3:00 today, I'm not only arrested, but I don't lose my job, and that is a threat to me personally. This is not about me. This is about the voices of every Texan, and at this point, everybody in the nation. If I show up and sit quiet, your voice is the one that is shut up, and we're not willing to do it as Texas Democrats.

BROWN: I want to play a little bit of sound from Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker who said at a press conference that you attended when asked about the potential of redrawing Congressional lines in Democratic-controlled states like this. And then I'm going to ask you about what he said on the other side.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. J.B. PRITZKER (D-IL): All bets are off when the cult leader and, you know, would-be dictator of the United States tells Texas to midstream change the game when they know that they're going to lose in 2026. All bets are off. Everything's got to be on the table.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: What do you say to people who argue Democrats will be guilty of the same thing they're accusing Republicans of if they redraw districts in blue states for their own electoral benefit?

JOHNSON: I mean, Republicans keep changing the game, not only changing the game, but changing the field midway through the game. We, constitutionally -- the Texas Constitution says you redraw districts once every ten years. That's the norm. People need to know this is not normal. Halfway through the decade deciding that you don't like the potential results of the next election, so you want to go redraw lines to ensure that your candidate can win is not normal. They did it last year in North Carolina.

BROWN: Right. But should Democrats should do the same in return if it passes through Texas?

JOHNSON: So, that's the frustrating thing is Republicans are saying it's fine if we do it, but you guys can't. And let me tell you, I have offered legislation for an independent commission to redraw the lines. I am completely fine with let the voters draw the lines and let us play fairly. And so why don't we all say let's get rid of politician drawing the lines. Let's have independent commissions do it across the nation.

But that's not what they want to talk about. They want to simply say, hey, we don't like where this game is going, we don't like the potential outcome next November, and so we're going to get a state that will be willing to do it. Don't forget when Trump called Georgia and said, I just need you guys to find 10,000 votes, they had the courage to say, no, sir, we don't break the rules that way. But Texas Republicans, when he says, hey, I just need you guys to find me five seats before the next election, they said, does your law (ph) work for you? No. That's not what we're doing. That's not it. This is public service, actually standing up and being willing to lose your job to do your job. That is public service. Courage (INAUDIBLE) and it is time to pass it on.

BROWN: Texas State Representative Ann Johnson, thank you so much for your time.

JOHNSON: Thank you.

BROWN: All right, we lost her.

BLITZER: Very good interview. Thank you very much for that.

I want to continue the conversation with CNN Senior Reporter Edward- Isaac Dovere. Isaac, let me call you Isaac. because that's what I know you prefer. Is this a moment that's different from previous attempts to redistrict, to gerrymander, if you will, that earlier parties tried to do in, not just in Texas, but in other states as well?

EDWARD-ISAAC DOVERE, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Yes. Like gerrymandering is part of American politics and it's happened in Texas before, including mid-cycle redistricting. What's different, I think, here is that Donald Trump has said very clearly what this is about. There is no game about it. He said he wants five more seats out of Texas. He wants five more Republican seats because he wants to help win or keep the majority for the House in the midterms next year.

Because of that, it's very hard for Texas Republicans to argue that they're doing anything other than that. When they say that this is about making the seats more competitive or reflecting things, that's not what's going on here because we heard it right out of the president's mouth.

BLITZER: You know New York politics well, I do too. How has it worked out for Democrats in the past when they have tried to redraw Congressional lines in New York?

DOVERE: It happened just a couple years ago. After the 2020 census, there was an effort by Democrats to make a very gerrymandered Democratic-favored map that ended up getting thrown out by the courts. That is part of the problem that Democrats are facing in New York in thinking about how they might retaliate in response to what Texas is doing.

BLITZER: How much of this is for Democrats that they're signaling their opposition to President Donald Trump's agenda, in your view? How much of this is that they're sending a message to Trump?

DOVERE: It is hard to see realistically how, given that the governor of Texas and the Republican majority is there are clearly in favor of doing what the President has asked them to do and are willing to go along with it. And they have the majority that they will not, at some point, be able to push this through.

Therefore, what you see with the representative you just had on and other Texas Democrats and people like J.B. Pritzker, Gavin Newsom, who obviously have their eyes on some potential future presidential runs, to -- what they're looking at is how to get Democrats energized around this and saying, we may lose this battle, but we have to have this fight.

BLITZER: Interesting. Isaac Dovere, thank you very, very much for that analysis.

And in the next hour, I'll speak to the House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries. He'll join me live. We'll talk about the Texas redistricting fight and what this means for other states as well, and potentially the future of the U.S. House of Representatives, all that coming up live right here in The Situation Room.

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And we'll be right back.