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New Report Released on Titan Sub Implosion; Interview With Rep. Debbie Dingell (D-MI); Congress Issues Subpoenas For Epstein Files. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired August 05, 2025 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Happening now, breaking news: The House Oversight Committee has just subpoenaed the Justice Department for files related to Jeffrey Epstein.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: We want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer with Pamela Brown, and you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BROWN: And we begin this hour with two breaking news stories on the Justice Department and the Epstein files.

Sources tell CNN that the Trump administration is considering whether to make public an audio recording and transcripts of Jeffrey Epstein's co-conspirator Ghislaine Maxwell's interview with the Justice Department. And the House Oversight Committee has issued subpoenas to the DOJ for files and information from Epstein's case.

BLITZER: These are significant developments.

CNN's Kristen Holmes is joining us from over at the White House. And CNN congressional correspondent Lauren Fox is here with us in THE SITUATION ROOM.

Kristen, let me start with you.

What are we learning about these transcripts?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, just the mere existence of the audio, Wolf and Pamela, is news itself. Not every single interview conducted by the Justice Department has audio to go along with it.

So there are a couple parts here that need to be taken into consideration. One, the fact that there is actually audio recording from this interview last month of the Epstein accomplice Ghislaine Maxwell with the deputy attorney general, Todd Blanche, this interview, we are told, in terms of the audio, it's over 10 hours of audio.

And now there is consideration within the White House among these administration officials on whether or not to release either the audio or the audio and the transcripts. We know that the Department of Justice has been going through these transcripts, going through the audio, trying to redact any sensitive information, combing through for relevant information.

The reason why this is so key and this idea of releasing it is so key is, it's coming at a time in which the White House has been under increased scrutiny to be more transparent. So I'm talking to a number of these Trump administration officials who are frustrated at the way that this was rolled out or weighed the information around the Epstein case was rolled out from the Justice Department.

So now you're seeing them -- potentially the White House taking matters into their own hands or these administration officials trying to control the optics and the narrative. And I can tell you from talking to my sources outside of the White House, these sources that are very close to President Trump, they want to see these transcripts.

They understand they might have to be redacted in terms of sensitive information, but they want to see what was discussed during this hourslong meeting.

BLITZER: All right, Kristen Holmes over at the White House, thank you very much.

Lauren Fox is here with us as well, our congressional correspondent.

Lauren, the House Oversight Committee just subpoenaed the U.S. Justice Department for files related to Jeffrey Epstein. What can you tell us?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this vote happened almost two weeks ago, right before lawmakers had left for their recess for the month of August, but it took some time for this subpoena to officially go out.

It includes several requests for depositions with high-profile individuals, including former attorney generals, former President Bill Clinton, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, as well as A.G.s as far back as the Bush administration. And that just gives you a sense of the scope of the investigation at the Justice Department and how long this process has been playing out as they were investigating Jeffrey Epstein and his co-conspirator, Ghislaine Maxwell.

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Now, right now, it's not clear whether or not they will all comply. But the big overarching takeaway, of course, is that subpoena to the Justice Department to turn over all documents related to the investigation into Jeffrey Epstein.

Again, it's not clear whether or not the Justice Department is going to turn over those documents. This could turn into a very protracted fight with all of these individuals who are being asked to come in for depositions. It also could turn into a very protracted court battle with the Justice Department, where Congress is going to be requesting this information.

But it doesn't necessarily mean the Justice Department is going to comply by their deadline.

BLITZER: Big legal battle coming up, for sure.

Lauren, thank you very, very much, Lauren Fox reporting -- Pamela.

BROWN: All right, for more on the breaking news, I'm going to bring in Michigan Democratic Congresswoman Debbie Dingell. She's the chair of the House Democratic Policy and Communications Committee, which shapes Democratic messaging.

So, Congresswoman, you have called for the Jeffrey Epstein files to be released. What do you make of this news? Do you expect the Justice Department to comply with the House Oversight Committee's subpoena for the files? And, if it does not, what should Congress do?

REP. DEBBIE DINGELL (D-MI): Well, I think the first thing is going to be, what does President Trump tell the attorney general she can do and not do?

It is very clear he wants this to go away. It is very clear that it is not going to go away. I think that the subpoenas that we have heard about that have been issued this morning show that they're being issued in a very bipartisan way, going back a long time.

I think that they're -- the House committee that's investigating this wants to see if there is something there, that they're making sure that anybody that might have been involved is going to be out there. And we're going to have to see what happens.

I know that President Trump wants this to go away. And I know that it's not going to go away, not because of Democrats, but because Republicans in his own party and his MAGA base feel like he brought it up, he made promises, and he hasn't delivered.

BROWN: So you say that President Trump wants it to go away. Well, CNN is learning this morning that the Justice Department has an audio recording and transcript of the interview conducted with Epstein's accomplice, Ghislaine Maxwell.

And the administration has been considering releasing that publicly. What do you think about that? Would you support it?

DINGELL: I would support it. I mean, it was a very unusual interview to begin with. It's very unusual that she's been moved to the prison that she is in.

But we need transparency right now. Just the lack of transparency, the -- what appears to be a desire by the White House to hide what is there, let's just see what it is. I mean, this man was disgusting. He is guilty of horrific crimes. We are forgetting that there are victims that are still recovering, more than 1,000 of them.

We need to know what the facts are, and then we need to move on, because, quite frankly, not the Democrats, it's the Republicans in the Congress that are keeping business that needs to get done for the people of this country by blocking rules to consider anything.

BROWN: Well, there are two victims, at least two, who actually wrote the court. Their identities are anonymous right now, but they're concerned that they could be exposed with the release of grand jury testimony, right?

They say that this is political warfare and that people are being insensitive to these victims. How can Congress simultaneously push for transparency while also protecting the victims here?

DINGELL: I think the victims have a right to have their names not made public. I think that there have been -- you can -- we know that there's an ability to hide their names, yet talk about what the facts and some of it was.

I have unfortunately -- I mean, I'm glad that the person felt that they could come forward and talk to me. They're scared to death. They don't want their name to become public or become part of a hate tunnel. People don't understand what happens to people when their name becomes public.

People that don't know them, they have no facts, just go after them in all kinds of horrific, brutal, bullying, frightening, threatening ways. They have already been victims. They want to move on with their life, and they're scared to death about what is going to happen if their names become public.

BROWN: So, tell us a little bit more about that conversation you had. And they -- you said they want to move on with their life, and yet Democrats and Republicans are calling for more transparency, which will only keep this out there in the headlines.

DINGELL: I think that the calling for transparency is, is there a list? Is there a list of -- here's what happened.

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OK, it wasn't Democrats who called for this. As part of his campaign, he said he would make the Jeffrey Epstein list public. The attorney general stood in front of the White House and said, I have the list on my desk. We will make this public.

They said to their MAGA base, we're going to be transparent. We're going to tell everybody what happened.

But when you release a list, it's of the abusers. It isn't of the victims. In this country, we have tried very hard to protect the victims. I'm somebody who works in domestic violence abuse every single day trying to help people. They should not ever have their names -- they're sexual assault -- I have helped some who've been victims of sexual -- they're survivors. They're not -- they don't want to be called victims. Their names

should not be made public. It's hard enough for people that just are like that. When you take a case like the Jeffrey Epstein case, which is on the minds of millions of people across this country, there are people that are not kind.

There are people that are mean and brutal. There are people from other countries that are trying to stir up more trouble in our country. And those survivors become victims again by the sheer hatred and brutality that people put towards them. That -- some of us have empathy and compassion, but that's not what they feel.

They feel the hate that comes at them. And we need to understand that's happening too much in our country, period, on social media.

BROWN: I want to ask you about another news-of-day topic. And that, of course, is what's going in -- on in Texas, where we are seeing this debate over redistricting play out.

Texas Governor Greg Abbott and the state House speaker are pushing for the arrest of Democrats who fled the state. Is there anything congressional Democrats can do to support their Texas counterparts in the state House?

DINGELL: Look, we got to give them moral support. We're going to have to -- Hakeem is taking the lead on this.

And the governor is doing all this bluster and threatening this and threatening that. This is a threat to democracy, what is happening there. I hope that a Republican will offer an amendment that bans redistricting in the middle of a 10-year cycle.

And then I'm going to co-sponsor it. I think it would be better if it came from a Republican. This is sheer -- it's taking away the will of people. It's attacking the very foundation of our democracy. He knows that people are unhappy with the consequences of the big bad bill. They're afraid they're going to lose the House.

They're manipulating government to try to help themselves. And in the process of doing that, they are going to disenfranchise voters that -- there are standards. They are standards the Supreme Court set years ago. And black people do deserve to have, African-Americans deserve to have representation. Hispanics deserve to have representation.

You have -- you bring communities of interest together in redistricting, so they have a voice in Washington for them. And what the governors doing is jumping when President Trump told him to jump. And he's trying to -- he's attacking the very foundation of democracy.

BROWN: So then what do you think about Democratic governors like Kathy Hochul of New York and Gavin Newsom of California moving forward with plans to redraw congressional lines in their states, essentially fighting fire with fire here?

DINGELL: That's what you got to do, is fight fire with fire. I don't like it. I just absolutely don't like it, but we do have to fight fire with fire.

If they're going to do that and they're going to get away with it, then we have got to make sure that voices are represented at the table. What I really want to see is legislation that just bans this, because it doesn't help us get any public policy done. It doesn't help us get the work of the people.

But we have to make sure that -- democracy means everybody's got a seat at the table. You can't take away the voices of people at a table. And if that's what we have got to do, Democrats are having to look at a whole lot of things. We -- I myself am -- I'm someone who works with both sides. I believe in civility. I believe in trying to find solutions and finding that common ground.

And what we are watching in this year is, freedom of speech, freedom of press, freedom of religion and due process are all under attack. People are losing those freedoms. We took them for granted when we learned them in school and rolled our eyes. We are fighting for the very democracy we all believe in.

BROWN: Then do you think Democrats are meeting the moment? If all of that is under threat, as you say, are Democrats meeting the moment with their messaging?

Because I spoke to you many weeks ago. I think it was like four or five weeks ago. And you felt like you were getting there with the Democrats and their messaging and leadership, but not there yet. So are you there yet?

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DINGELL: I think we are absolutely getting there. I think the American people deserve better.

I think that our leader Hakeem Jeffries' eight-hour speech on the floor on the big bad bill lifted the spirits of many. Hakeem and the -- Leader Schumer are meeting regularly and agreed as, we go into what's going to be a very difficult fall, we are going to be together. Ken Martin, the DNC chair, has been brought in and reading into this.

And we have got to understand what the American people want. In the month of -- we have got a lot of projects under way for the month of August. One of the challenges I have given every member of our House caucus is to get in a union hall, talk to the working men and women, listen to them, hear what they are worried about.

We have got to put more money in their pockets. We know that the health care system is broken in this country. And that bill that they passed is only making it worse. And, quite frankly, the American people want to see corruption cleaned up in this country. And we need to start doing it ourselves by banning stock trading in the United States Congress.

BROWN: All right, Congresswoman Debbie Dingell, we covered a lot there. Thank you so much.

DINGELL: Thank you.

BLITZER: And still ahead: a scathing new report on what caused the 2023 implosion of the Titan submersible that killed five people on board, investigators calling the disaster -- quote -- "preventable" and finding evidence of potential crime.

Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

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BLITZER: Just in, a preventable disaster, that's how the newly released U.S. Coast Guard report is framing the loss of the Titan submersible.

Here it is on the floor of the North Atlantic. The vessel imploded during a dive back in June of 2023 on the way to the Titanic, killing five people.

BROWN: For the latest, we are joined by CNN national correspondent Jason Carroll.

Jason, what key findings can you share with us from this 300-page report?

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well Pamela, first things first.

The findings of this Coast Guard report will, in all likelihood, comes no surprise to several of OceanGate's former employees, who, you will remember, testified last September about many of the problems, many of the safety issues that they saw, issues that they also saw with OceanGate's former CEO, Stockton Rush.

Now, this new report from the Marine Board of Investigation concluded, as you say, this was an accident that was preventable. The report also outlines several contributing factors that led to the implosion, saying in a statement: "The board determined the primary contributing factors were OceanGate's inadequate design, certification, maintenance and inspection process for the Titan."

For example, the board found that OceanGate didn't bother to investigate safety issues with the Titan's hull after an incident back in 2022 where a loud banging was heard. OceanGate's former employees had testified the company was doing all that it could to cut corners.

The report also found that the company did all that it could to avoid oversight by the scientific community, saying: "Mr. Rush in his dual role as CEO and as the acting master or pilot of the Titan submersible exhibited negligence that contributed to the deaths of four individuals."

Now, when all five people perished on board the Titan, this report is the result of a two-year investigation, and, as you guys know, more is to come. We're still awaiting the results from the National Transportation Safety Board, which is doing its own investigation into the cause of the implosion.

BLITZER: Let me follow up. Could Stockton Rush himself have faced charges if he survived?

CARROLL: In all likelihood, Wolf, you're absolutely right, because the Marine Board of Investigation also found evidence of what they called potential criminal offense on the part of Stockton Rush.

And had he survived, in all likelihood, they would have referred the matter to the Department of Justice, which then would have taken a look at it to see if criminal prosecution was warranted -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Jason Carroll reporting for us.

Jason, thank you very much Pamela.

BROWN: All right, up next, Wolf, Attorney General Pam Bondi is ordering federal prosecutors to launch a grand jury investigation into top Obama officials over an investigation into Russia from 2016.

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BLITZER: We're continuing our coverage of the breaking news in the case of Jeffrey Epstein.

Sources now tell CNN that the Trump administration is considering the release of audio recordings and transcripts of Ghislaine Maxwell's interview with the U.S. Justice Department. Those took place over two days just last month in Tallahassee, where Maxwell was serving a 20- year prison sentence for sex trafficking.

Joining us now is senior legal analyst Elie Honig. Elie is a former federal and state prosecutor.

What's your reaction, Elie, to the Justice Department considering releasing of Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche's interview that went on for hours and hours with Maxwell?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Wolf, it's significant, first of all, to know that an electronic recording actually exists.

That's actually in compliance with DOJ policy that's been in place the last decade or so that says, when you are interviewing a federally incarcerated defendant, you are supposed to electronically record it. And so that means, if this comes out, we will have a verbatim record of what was said.

We won't have to rely on someone's notes or testimony, which can be fallible at times. The other thing that's really important to note is the decision whether to release this is entirely the Justice Department's.