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Appeals Court Throws Out Civil Fraud Penalty Against Trump; Interview With Los Angeles, California, District Attorney Nathan Hochman; Menendez Brothers Face Parole Board; Hurricane Erin Impacts East Coast. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired August 21, 2025 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Happening now, breaking news: tracking monster Hurricane Erin. We have the latest as the storm lashes up the East Coast.

Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer. Pamela Brown is off today. And you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BLITZER: And we begin with breaking news.

Right now, the National Hurricane Center is delivering the latest update on Hurricane Erin, those new details in just a moment coming up. This is a live satellite image we're getting of the sprawling Category 2 storm as it churns off the East Coast.

On North Carolina's coast, waves have overtaken the protective dunes and shut down Highway 12, which links the islands of the Outer Banks. And listen to this; 130 miles off the coast, a buoy has measured waves that average nearly 40 feet, a reminder of the potential disaster if this storm had made landfall.

Choppy waves and blustery winds are now hitting Virginia Beach. These are live pictures coming in from CNN affiliate WTKR. The National Hurricane Center has warned of tropical storm conditions arriving this morning.

Let's go live to see a national correspondent Dianne Gallagher. She is joining us from Nags Head, North Carolina.

Dianne, what are you experiencing so far this morning?

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, Wolf, we're actually experiencing what I would call the calmest conditions that we have had so far this morning, but there are still some pretty large gusts of wind that kicked the sand up and basically give me a free exfoliating sand facial at this point.

It's been really rough. We're also still seeing these rough seas, the very, very angry-looking waves, but there are plenty of families that are coming out and enjoying the cooler weather today as well. They don't mind that up here in Nags Head. There is no evacuation here as long as people stay out of the water.

Those rip currents, those deadly, dangerous rip currents are still a factor. It is a double red flag day across the coast of North Carolina here in the Outer Banks, and it will likely remain that tomorrow as Erin continues out into the ocean and further north, because, again, you see the sea is angry.

Now, you talked about NC-12, Highway 12. It is still shut down at the bridge about 20 minutes from where I am right now, preventing access to places like Rodanthe, Ocracoke Island, Hatteras Village. We are seeing those images of the highway there with significant overwash, major overwash in some areas.

DOT is already out in some parts trying to clean that up to get an idea of just how significant or if there is any damage underneath that. Is this a cleanup project or is this going to be a repair project? And that will determine most likely how long things are closed down and how long people are going to be unable to get off of those islands, because it is the only access point on or off for most of these barrier islands, Wolf.

BLITZER: And, Dianne, you are there in Nags Head, North Carolina. Are you seeing any people jumping into the water?

GALLAGHER: I have not seen anyone jump in the water today. I saw someone doing some skimboarding a little further south at Oregon Inlet before, but he told me pretty much: I tried to swim yesterday. I would definitely not do it today, looking at the sea.

Even yesterday here in the Outer Banks, I only saw a couple people get out and try to swim. They got scolded immediately by a lifeguard, who came down on an ATV and told them, you have to get out.

We did not see the same kind of rescue magnitude that we did further south here in New Hanover County in Wilmington that my colleague Michael Yoshida did. We basically had a lot of people who stayed out of the water. There -- it was rough. They were very intense with the lifeguards here.

And the people who live in the Outer Banks know that. I have had a couple people say to me, look, Mother Nature is undefeated. You have to respect Mother Nature and never think that you can beat her.

BLITZER: Yes, it is dangerous, obviously, for people who are stupid enough to go in the water right now, but especially dangerous for lifeguards who, God forbid, have to go in there themselves, risk their lives to save these people.

All right, Dianne Gallagher in Nags Head, North Carolina, thank you very much. I want to turn to the National Hurricane Center's latest update on

this brutal storm just moments ago.

Our CNN meteorologist, Derek Van Dam, is now joining us.

Derek, what are you learning about this latest update?

DEREK VAN DAM, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Right off the top of that 11:00 a.m. update from the National Hurricane Center, it talks about how Hurricane Erin is a large, sprawling hurricane.

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And this video proves just that. This was taken earlier this morning. Oh, wow, look at that thing lumbering off of the Eastern Seaboard of the U.S., that expansive cloud shield and the swells that are generated by this. This was also highlighted in their discussion.

It's encompassing the entire Western Atlantic from the Bahamas all the way to Atlantic Canada. So that's really saying something, because there's a lot of wave energy associated with it. And that was what we have been warning about. Here's the latest radar and satellite taken together, and we have got a measuring tool here basically about 250 miles off the coast of Cape Hatteras.

But it's still bringing some of these outer rain bands and, of course, certainly the gusty winds. I want to point out this buoy here. That happened to be in the perfect position as Erin's eye moved overhead. It registered waves of 45 feet and gusts of 85 miles per hour.

Speaking of wind, tropical storm force extends 550 miles in diameter. This is a massive storm system. So you can imagine it is agitating the ocean. But it's all about the direction of the wind at this stage. As it continues to move away from the Eastern Seaboard, it's getting that push of the Atlantic Ocean.

So here are some of the realized real-time storm surge values. And, Wolf, we called two to four feet within this area. Well, that's what they're receiving in places like Ocean City and into the Cape Hatteras region.

BLITZER: So it's going to cause all sorts of problems for folks not just in North Carolina right now, but moving up towards Virginia, then Maryland, then Delaware, Rehoboth, Delaware, for example, then up to New Jersey, and maybe even New York, right?

VAN DAM: This is the thing, that a lot of people will say, hey, I can get out into the beaches today. Not a good idea. So when we're talking about the entire Western Atlantic, it's from Bermuda all the way to the Eastern Seaboard of the United States.

So this area has very dangerous riptides. The oceans are angry. The best advice we can give people is stay out of there because it's just downright dangerous, especially for inexperienced swimmers.

(CROSSTALK) BLITZER: I was just curious. Personally, I'm interested in Florida. What about Miami?

VAN DAM: Yes, you have got another day of some of the worst riptide risks. It'll continue to improve as Erin continues to exit to the Northern Atlantic. So the improvements will start here, eventually moving their way into the mid-Atlantic and eventually the Northeast.

But, that, we have to wait until Saturday and Sunday until I'm confident as a meteorologist to say, hey, the conditions in the ocean have settled down enough, you can get back in the water.

BLITZER: All right, let's hope that happens sooner, rather than later.

All right, Derek Van Dam, thank you very, very much.

And still ahead: a chance at freedom. After decades in prison for killing their parents, Lyle and Erik Menendez Menendez will face parole boards for the first time this week.

Up next, we're talking with the L.A. district attorney, Nathan Hochman. He will explain why he's fighting so hard to block the brothers' release.

Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

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ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BLITZER: All right, there's breaking news.

A New York appeals court is now throwing out the nearly half-a-billion dollar judgment against President Trump in the civil fraud case brought by the state's attorney general.

Want to go live down to our correspondent Kara Scannell in New York.

So, Kara, update our viewers. What are you learning about this breaking news?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, this is a huge win for President Donald Trump. A New York appeals court five-member panels have agreed to throw out the nearly half-a-billion-dollar judgment against the president.

This was from the case brought by New York Attorney General Letitia James. Now, this is a 323-page opinion. The judges remarkably could not reach unanimity on any one opinion. And they note that this was -- there were profound disagreements in how they were analyzing this, but enough of them, they had agreed to this so that the case could move forward to the next stage, where they expect it will be appealed further. But this decision does say that the judgment, the nearly half-a-

billion dollars, is thrown out. You will remember that Trump had posted a $175 million bond. That will be given back to him at some point. But that was a real significant judgment against the president. At the time, he was facing the criminal charges.

It was unclear if he would be able to raise the money, but now that is no longer a concern. That judgment is against him has been thrown out. Now, this opinion did affirm the liability in the case, which found him liable for fraud. But, again, the judges here were not unanimous in how they felt that this should play out.

One judge wanted a new trial, others saying that that's impractical because Trump is the president of the United States. So they are expecting there to be further litigation on this, but the headline here is that Trump is no longer liable for half-a-billion.

They do -- the judges here do expect this to be appealed. We have reached out to the New York attorney general's office, have not heard back. Have also reached out to Trump's legal team, have not heard back from them yet about what their next steps here will be.

But it is likely the attorney general's office will appeal this, so the litigation will continue, but a significant decision here, throwing out the half-a-billion dollar judgment that was facing the president and his two adult sons. So, for now, that is now off the table as this case continues to play out -- Wolf.

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BLITZER: Yes, at least for now, a huge, huge win for President Trump and his family. Thanks very much.

I want to bring in our senior crime and justice reporter, Katelyn Polantz. She's also following up on these developments.

How does this latest ruling fit into Trump's legal problems? And there's still other legal problems that he has.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, when the judge had decided that Trump was going to be liable for hundreds of millions of dollars here, it was perceived as a potential kill shot toward the Trump Organization, its very existence.

That is now off the table. So the win, as Kara was saying, is completely evident here for Trump. But there's a lot of other things at play here, Wolf. This is a case that was brought by the attorney general of New York, Letitia James, someone that Trump and even his Justice Department now have outlined as one of their political foes.

Watch what happens there in court. What the judges here are saying, and I was just able to read just the beginning of this 300-some-page opinion. The judges in their opinion say that the A.G. here, James, was acting well within her lawful power in bringing this action and that she vindicated a public interest pursuing the Trump Organization for liability of fraud. And one of the things the judges also say is that the finding that

Trump is liable here, that may be enough to curb the business culture of the Trump Organization from bad behavior, this fraudulent activity that the court did find and that this appeals court is endorsing.

But what they're saying is, the fine, it's excessive. We're not going to let that happen. But on the legal side, it's not even the top court in New York state. There will be other appeals. Other bodies could do differently, especially because we see a split court here with a lot of different judges writing what they think.

BLITZER: Yes, good point, very good point indeed.

I want to bring in our senior legal analyst, Elie Honig, right now.

Are you surprised, Elie, by this ruling?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I'm not, Wolf.

I have been skeptical of the attorney general's case for a long time. I'm on record saying that. This is a huge win for Donald Trump any way you cut it. And this is a stinging rebuke to the attorney general, Letitia James.

The finding here, it's a very long, complicated ruling. But the bottom line is, while the finding of liability against Donald Trump can stand for now, at least, the damages award, which started at $350 million, with interest gets up close to $500 million, that is thrown out.

And the core reason for that ruling, according to the judges, is essentially that there was not enough of a showing here that there were actual victims. And just to refresh people's memories, this is the civil fraud lawsuit brought by the attorney general.

The core allegation is that Donald Trump habitually overvalued his own assets when he was trying to get bank loans from banks and other lenders. And, essentially, the argument that Donald Trump made below that has now had resonance in the appeals court is, you're talking about very sophisticated -- quote, unquote -- "victims."

These are billion-dollar banks that made the loans, got repaid on the loans by Donald Trump with interest, and actually profited to the tune of millions of dollars. So it's not the typical type of fraud case where you have somebody stealing money from other people or ripping off unknowing consumers.

So this ruling by the appeals court is monumental. It was also very unusual in that it took them nearly a year to reach this decision. As Katelyn Polantz just said, the next step is going to be to go up to the highest court in the state, the Court of Appeals in New York state.

BLITZER: All right, thanks very much, Elie. Appreciate it very much. Thanks to all of our reporters on this breaking news. We will, of course, continue to follow the story as new developments emerge. We will do that. I want to get to another important story that's following that's

happening right now, breaking news. At any moment now, the Menendez brothers will begin their latest fight to get out of prison. In just minutes, Erik Menendez will argue for his release in front of the California Parole Board.

Tomorrow, it's Lyle Menendez's turn. The two were convicted of murdering their parents in a case that is still captivating a lot of this nation.

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911 OPERATOR: What's the problem?

LYLE MENENDEZ, INMATE: We're the sons of...

911 OPERATOR: What's the problem? What's the problem?

E. MENENDEZ: Someone killed my parents.

911 OPERATOR: Pardon me?

E. MENENDEZ: Someone killed my parents.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two brothers accused of the grisly murders of their wealthy Beverly Hills parents. Police say Erik and Lyle Menendez shot their parents more than a dozen times in an effort to collect a $14 million insurance policy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Erik Menendez, to these charges, how do you now plead?

E. MENENDEZ: Not guilty.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joseph Lyle Menendez, to these charges, how do you now plead?

LYLE MENENDEZ, INMATE: Not guilty.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The brothers admitted they killed their wealthy parents with shotguns one night as they were watching television at home.

L. MENENDEZ: I ran around and shot my mom.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But they alleged it was after years of physical and sexual abuse at the hands of their father.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For Lyle Menendez, accused of killing his mother and father, the verdict was guilty, and his brother, Erik, received the same guilty verdicts.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The brothers will spend the rest of their lives in prison without the possibility of parole. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After serving more than three decades in prison,

the Menendez brothers could be granted options beyond serving life behind bars. Prosecutors reviewed an undated letter written by Erik that his attorneys say corroborates the abuse allegations.

The Menendezes' defense also cite Roy Rossello, a former member of the band Menudo who came forward with his own allegations that he was molested by the father, Jose. A Netflix dramatization of the murders also reigniting public interest in the case.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The previous DA in L.A. said, yes, I would like resentencing. The new DA elected in November said, I don't want resentencing, these brothers have not changed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Menendez brothers have still not ever come clean with all the lies, the deceit, and the cover-up that they have engaged in for over 35 years.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A judge has now resentenced them to 50 years to life, which means, under California law, they are now eligible for parole. Hurdles still to overcome, there's a parole board and the governor who still have to decide whether these, possibly the most notorious killers in modern American, modern California history should walk free.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: That first parole hearing on the fate of the Menendez brothers is set to begin any minute now.

I want to bring in a key player in this case, the Los Angeles County district attorney, Nathan Hochman.

Nathan, thanks so much for joining us.

I know you said in a recent statement that you oppose the release of the Menendez brothers because -- and I'm quoting you now -- "They have not demonstrated full insight into their crimes or shown that they have been fully rehabilitated."

You note, however, that you will evaluate your final position based on evidence presented at this hearing. What would make you change your mind and support possible parole for Erik and Lyle Menendez?

NATHAN HOCHMAN, LOS ANGELES COUNTY, CALIFORNIA, DISTRICT ATTORNEY: So, one of the key factors that the Parole Board is going to consider is this factor of insight.

Have the Menendez brothers completely accepted responsibility for their crimes and all the lies that they have told over the past 35 years? The central lie that they have told is the self-defense defense, that the reason that they killed their parents, their mother and their father, on the night of August 20, 1989, was not because of sexual abuse, but because they said they believed each of their parents was going to kill them that night, so they had to kill them first. We have shown through an extensive analysis of 50,000 pages of trial

transcripts that that self-defense defense, which they perpetrate today as a lie, is a lie. We show that they basically bought the shotguns two days before in a different city under a fake name.

They had a preplanned alibi to see "Batman," the movie, and actually tried to buy tickets after the murders to prove their alibi. They shot their parents to make it look like a mafia-style killing, shooting their dad in the back of the head. Their mom, who lied bleeding on the ground, they reloaded a shotgun and shot her at point-blank range in her cheek, and shot each of the parents through their knees.

We basically then showed methodically how they prepared their alibi. It did not work, ultimately, and that, when the tapes came out where they confessed to the crime, they then said that the reason for the first time they shot their parents was because of this self-defense.

If and when the Menendez brothers finally come clean and say that those lies that they have been telling for 35 years are just that, they're lies, then at that point we believe they will be qualified for parole. Until that happens, we believe they're not.

BLITZER: If you actually heard apologies from the brothers later today and tomorrow, for that matter, would you consider supporting their parole?

HOCHMAN: If the apologies were full, unequivocal and sincere.

And, again, that will take a lot of effort at this point, given that they have basically perpetrated these lies for 35 years. But if they were to hit that point of sincerity and unequivocalness with their apologies and their admission that they have lied to themselves, the media, their family, and the public all this time, then certainly we would consider that as a major factor in whether or not they should be trusted to be released at this point.

BLITZER: Nathan, what specifically could the Menendez brothers do today and tomorrow, for example, to be fully rehabilitated, in your view?

HOCHMAN: We have actually laid out in our papers 16 different lies that the Menendez brothers have been telling for the past 30 years. They include this self-defense defense.

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They include the fact that they said their father was trying to rape Lyle's girlfriend, he was a violent rapist, a lie, that their mother was trying to poison the family. They testified to this, a total lie. That they were trying to buy a -- trying to get a gun the day before because they were in such fear of their parents killing them, another lie.

So we outlined 16 different lies. We did this month ago. And at any point in the last number of months, they could have finally come clean with all these lies. Instead, they have doubled and tripled down in persisting with these lies.

Also, you have from the parole authorities a comprehensive risk assessment that has raised their risk level from low to moderate because of all the violations that they have committed in the last year in prison awaiting this day.

So, if and when the Menendez brothers finally and unequivocally come clean with all their lies, at that point, they should be able to qualify for parole, but that's not happened today.

BLITZER: Is there a world in which just one of the two brothers gets parole?

HOCHMAN: I mean, there is a world. I would -- the brothers have been enormously consistent in backing up each brother's lies and each brother's stories, whether it was testifying similarly a trial, whether it was persisting in these lies through appeal, whether it's persisting in the lies and all the public statements they have made since then.

And, again, anything is possible, Wolf, where they could take different positions today with the Parole Board, but the comprehensive risk assessment for each brother raised them from low to moderate risk level.

And, ultimately, as you know, Governor Newsom has the final, final say on whether or not the Menendez brothers are ever released.

BLITZER: Are you concerned, Nathan, that all of the public attention, all of the publicity right now on the Menendez brothers could potentially influence the Parole Board at all?

HOCHMAN: Certainly, you're always concerned about that.

But I must tell you, at the DA level, whether they're a celebrity or not a celebrity, we only rely on two things, the facts and the law, putting celebrity aside. So I think celebrity has attracted public attention to this case. And, by the way, that's a good thing, because I value the public being interested in this case and hopefully not just this case, but all cases throughout the criminal justice system, because it makes it a better system.

So I think that, hopefully, celebrity will be put aside by the Parole Board when they make their decision.

BLITZER: Did the brothers ever -- and their lawyers, I should say, ever show any hard evidence that their parents were sexually abusing them?

HOCHMAN: Well, again, each Menendez brother testified at the first trial, and Erik actually testified for seven days at the second trial, going all over in graphic, graphic detail 12 years of sexual abuse by the father.

Again, you had that evidence put out in the trials. The juries rejected it, because the ultimate legal defense for the Menendez brothers, and they each said this, was not that they sexually abused -- were sexually abused as the reason they killed their parents. It was that they basically said their parents were going to kill them first, so they had to then kill them before their parents did, the self-defense defense.

So, again, at the end of the day, though the defense will focus on sexual abuse, the true lie that they have told is the self-defense defense and all the other lies about the -- about Jose Menendez being a violent rapist of Lyle's girlfriend and the mother being a poisoner of the family.

BLITZER: And you believe they killed their parents because of the insurance, the millions of dollars in potential insurance money that they would receive; is that right?

HOCHMAN: Well, during the trial, the prosecution presented that as one of the strongest motives for why they killed their parents. But they also introduced the testimony of the taped psychiatrist confessions that Erik and Lyle Menendez gave to their psychiatrist.

In those confessions, they basically said they killed their father because he was a domineering individual who wouldn't let them live their lives, and they killed their mother as a mercy killing, that she couldn't live if the father had lived.

They also said they killed the mother because they wanted to get rid of a witness to the crime. So, again, while a financial motive certainly was presented during the testimony, other motives were presented as well.

BLITZER: Nathan Hochman, the Los Angeles County district attorney, thanks very much for joining us.

HOCHMAN: My pleasure. Thank you very much.

BLITZER: And there's lots of news there from the Los Angeles County district attorney.

I want to bring in some expert reporters right now who have been covering the Menendez brothers for years.

Joining us are CNN's Nick Watt and Jean Casarez.

Let me start with you, Nick. What stood out to you the most from what we just heard from Nathan Hochman?