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Soon, Secretary RFK Jr. Faces Senators Amid Turmoil at HHS, CDC; Trump, Zelenskyy to Speak as Peace Talks Stall; Trump Asks Supreme Court to Save His Sweeping Tariffs. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired September 04, 2025 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, in the hot seat. HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is on Capitol Hill to face lawmakers as the backlash to his policies is growing.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Clearly growing. And we want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer with Pamela Brown, and you're in The Situation Room.

And we begin with the breaking news, Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is up on Capitol Hill right now to testify before senators as his Department of Health and Human Services is roiled in controversy, Kennedy canceling millions in vaccine research funding and dismantling a key panel of experts who make vaccination recommendations to the federal government.

BROWN: He also recently ousted the CDC director after just weeks on the job over a dispute on vaccine policy, and she is now speaking out, writing in The Wall Street Journal that, quote, the CDC can't fulfill its obligation to the American people if it's leader can't demand proof in decision-making. If discarding evidence for ideology becomes the norm, why should parents, physicians, or the public trust the CDC's guidance?

BLITZER: And there's more, more than 1,000 current and former employees of Kennedy's own department are now calling for his resignation.

BROWN: Let's go live now to CNN Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta and CNN's Arlette Saenz who is on Capitol Hill covering this hearing.

Sanjay, let's start with you and this new op-ed from the former CDC director. Pretty significant.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I think really significant. I mean, it's a really strong letter. It talks about the fact that she felt like the agency there is sabotage that is happening there, not reform.

I think one of the things that really struck me when I read this op-ed was there was this meeting, apparently it took place more than a week ago, in which she was asked to basically pre-approve or rubber stamp the recommendations of a vaccine advisory panel, which isn't even meeting until September 16th to through September 19th.

So, that was really interesting, this idea that, look, the, the panel hasn't even met yet, they haven't gone through the discussions, and yet the CDC director was being asked to just go ahead and pre-approve that. If that's true, I mean, that obviously flies in the face of how science works and why these panels exist, to look at the evidence and make these recommendations.

So, we'll see if that comes up. But I think I point that out just as a little bit of a metaphor for I think what has, you know, caused so much anguish and so much anxiety from people at the CDC. So, you know, we'll see if this comes up, and also what the follow-up questions to this will be as well, because I think that's going to be really important.

BLITZER: Very important, indeed. Sanjay, what are some of the most tangible impacts Secretary Kennedy has made at HHS at least so far?

GUPTA: Well, you know, keep in mind, as I show you some of the things here, first of all, you know, the secretary of HHS is essentially the CEO of the largest health enterprise in the world, close to $2 trillion in budget allocations and controlling all sorts of things. But if you look back over the last several months, you know, we heard a lot about food dyes and the voluntary recalls of some of these food dyes, a lot of focus on restructuring of all the various agencies underneath HHS.

And then I think probably the thing that's gotten the most attention is around vaccines. But if you look at the restructuring, 20,000 workers that were, were let go in some way or fired, a lot of consolidation of divisions and a lot of cutbacks on fundings, including for things like mRNA vaccines, which, by the way, you know, a few years ago, were being touted as one of the greatest scientific achievements of our time.

So, you know, I think that that's what we're primarily seeing as a big focus on vaccines. I think that's where a lot of the discussion is going to go today as well. But, overall, in terms of tangible things, I mean the food dye thing, which was a voluntary recall, was probably the thing that you could point to that that sort of directly impacted American people the most. So, we haven't seen many of the other things because of this focus on cost-cutting, restructuring, and vaccines.

BROWN: Sanjay, I want you to watch what the Florida surgeon general just said about the state's move to get rid of all vaccine mandates, including for school children.

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JOSEPH LADAPO, FLORIDA SURGEON GENERAL: Every last one of them, every last one of them is wrong and drips with disdain and slavery, okay?

[10:05:00] Who am I as a government or anyone else, or who am I as a man standing here now to tell you what you should put in your body? Who am I to tell you what your child should put in your body? I don't have that, right?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So, you just heard him compare vaccine mandates to slavery. What impact could that have?

GUPTA: I mean, the rhetoric is just at a whole different level, Pamela, there's no question. I mean, look, this is -- if you look at vaccines in schools, they've really been since the early 1980s, been a part of requirements for kids to get into public schools. These are many of the vaccine requirements that you're seeing on the screen.

What is interesting is that, you know, you have 30, 40 years worth of data as a result of that, and you can sort of take a look what has happened over the last 30 years, for example, in terms of the impact of vaccines. Take a look. I mean, 500 million cases of illnesses prevented, over a million deaths prevented, 32 million hospitalizations prevented.

What I think is interesting as well as part of this whole discussion is that if you ask parents, hey, look, what do you think about vaccine mandates for schools, the vast majority, 80 percent say, yes, we think this is a good idea. And Florida has had exemptions, as has many states around the country where parents could opt out for personal reasons. And, typically, the opt out is only around 5 percent.

So we'll see the impact because parents may still want to get their kids vaccinated. We don't know that there will be any loss of insurance or ability to pay because of that. So, we'll see the impact overall.

BLITZER: I'm just curious, Sanjay, before I let you go, you think that this decision by the Florida surgeon general, to avoid these kinds of mandates for school kids, to get these vaccinations, is going to convince some parents to move out of that state and go to a state where these vaccinations are really mandated?

GUPTA: It's possible. You know, Dr. Osterholm has talked about this, and he thinks that, increasingly, you're going to see more vaccine preventable diseases in Florida as a result. You know, when you talk about immunity, it's from the vaccine, but it's also from the community. Those two things work hand in hand. So, you may see more diseases as a result. It almost certainly will. But also the impact on large parks, large amusement parks, for example, would that affect people coming into the state to visit those sorts of things? I don't know.

And, look, again, there may be a lot of parents who say, regardless of whether it's mandated or not, I still want to get my kids vaccinated. And so maybe the impact won't be as great, but we just don't know. I think this certainly sows some doubt in the minds of parents.

BLITZER: It certainly does. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, as usual, thank you very, very much. Pamela?

BROWN: All right. Let's bring in Arlette Saenz. So, tell me, Arlette, what are lawmakers telling you about Kennedy's leadership of HHS and what they want answers to today?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, Pamela Senator Kennedy likely will come under scrutiny for that turmoil at the CDC as well as decisions he's made relating to vaccine policy. Ahead of the hearing, the Democrats on the Senate Finance Committee said that they want Kennedy to resign, saying that he has endangered public health. But I think some of the people who should be most closely watched will be Senator Thom Tillis and Senator Bill Cassidy, both Republicans.

As Senator Tillis was arriving here, I asked him if he still has confidence in Secretary Kennedy's leadership, and he said, check with me after the hearing once he answers my questions. Yesterday he told reporters. That he wants to hear about why Kennedy has gone against some of the assurances that he had made to senators during his confirmation process.

And Senator Bill Cassidy who also chairs the Senate HELP Committee, which oversees HHS, he should be very closely watched today. He was the final vote really that had led to Kennedy's confirmation. Part of the reason that he decided to get on board with Kennedy's nomination was because he said that he had received assurances from Kennedy that he would work with the Senate relating on issues relating to vaccine policy.

But Kennedy has actually -- or Cassidy has actually come out and criticized some of the moves that Kennedy has made, including removing the members of that vaccine advisory panel and replacing them with handpicked members. At various points over the summer, Cassidy has said that that committee should not be meeting. And so it'll be interesting to see if he particularly grills Kennedy on that, especially after Monarez's op-ed in The Wall Street Journal today.

But, certainly, there are a host of issues that these lawmakers want to ask Kennedy about as they some have concerns about his stewardship of HHS and public health in the country.

BROWN: Yes. And we should note, as you see on the screen, the hearing is underway. You have the chairman, Senator Crapo, speaking right now. When Secretary Kennedy starts to speak, of course, we'll bring that to you live.

Arlette, thanks so much.

BLITZER: All right, Pamela. Happening now, President Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy speaking over the phone as negotiations with Russia to try to end its war against Ukraine remains stalled.

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Zelenskyy is in Paris where he is meeting with European leaders to discuss potential security guarantees in the event there's a peace deal with Russia.

Joining us now, CNN White House Reporter Alayna Treene. Alayna, how is the White House approaching all of this, considering the lack of progress that we've seen over these past few weeks?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, it really is kind of a wait-and-see period, and I'm eager to hear what was discussed on this call, Wolf, because I've had many conversations at length with people here at the White House and throughout the broader Trump administration about this.

And the president has been privately stewing. He has been very frustrated behind closed doors about the pace and progress of these talks. I'd remind you he wanted to move very, very quickly around that Alaska Summit last month to try and strike some sort of deal, and at least at a minimum try and get Zelenskyy as well as Vladimir Putin into the room together for a bilateral meeting. Clearly, that has yet happened.

And so I'm told that essentially the president's been weighing his options. He's also talked about potentially, you know, maybe removing himself from direct involvement in setting up that bilateral meeting between the Ukrainian and the Russian leaders, but also weighing as well whether or not there will be any sort of repercussions for Russia if they do not come to the table.

And I can tell, you know, we heard the president yesterday in the Oval Office, he was speaking to reporters while hosting the new president of Poland. And he was very vague about this. He had said that he was going to be speaking with Zelenskyy. He was also kind of pushing back on this idea that he hasn't put any sort of pressure on Russia yet. He pointed to the secondary sanctions on India. Of course, we've seen India being slapped with tariffs for buying Russian goods, specifically Russian oil.

But still a lot of people questioning, you know, is he going to walk away from these talks eventually, if it doesn't seem like Russia is willing to commit to a meeting or commit to potential ceasefire? That's still very much unclear. He had said that he's hoping he will have an answer from Russia soon about how this is going to go. And if not, you know, he will have next steps in place, being vague again about that.

All to say, hopefully, we can get some more clarity from this discussion. We know that the talks have been ongoing, so we'll bring that to you when we have more insight. Wolf?

BLITZER: All right. Alayna Treene reporting from the White House for us, Alayna, thank you very, very much. Pamela?

BROWN: And new this morning, Wolf, President Trump is asking the Supreme Court to step in and save his sweeping tariffs, setting up a major test of his trade policies and executive power.

CNN's Katelyn Polantz joins us now. So, Katelyn, a lower court already struck down President Trump's tariffs. He reported that. How likely is it that the Supreme Court could take this up?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's very likely that the Supreme Court is going to look at this, at least because this is the case testing the centerpiece of Donald Trump's tariff plan. This case is specifically about those tariffs that were announced on the so-called liberation day, the tariffs against China, Mexico, Canada, sweeping tariffs that Donald Trump put in place under what he says was his emergency powers because he wanted to combat drug trafficking in the United States and essentially punish those countries to fall in line and help with the drug trafficking or anti-drug trafficking policies of the U.S.

The emergency power of the president is what is going to be tested in court now. It's already been looked at by the Federal Circuit of Court of Appeals, by the Court of International Trade, that's the lowest court, and now quite possibly by the U.S. Supreme Court. That emergency power is what the federal circuit found Donald Trump did not have in this instance to be able to put those tariffs in place, striking them down at this time.

This appeal is quite an important one though because it is the center of Trump's tariff policy, even the economic policy of the White House. Here's a little bit more about what Donald Trump had to say in the Oval Office yesterday.

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DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: The stock market needs the tariffs. They want the tariffs.

It's a very important decision. And, frankly, if they'd make the wrong decision, it would be a devastation for our country.

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POLANTZ: Now, the plaintiffs in this case say that it would jeopardize their survival, so it would be devastation for them if the tariffs remain in place. There's already been $200 billion or more collected in revenue this fiscal year from these particular tariffs. Those might have to be able to be paid back if the U.S. Supreme Court sides it against the Trump administration here. Pamela?

BROWN: Wow. All right, Katelyn Polantz, thanks so much. Wolf?

BLITZER: All right, Pamela. There's more breaking news coming into CNN right now. Giorgio Armani has died. The Italian fashion designers clothes have graced runways and red carpets alike with his quintessentially Italian aesthetic.

BROWN: The Armani group released a statement writing in part, quote, today, with deep emotion, we feel the void left by the one who founded and nurtured this family with vision, passion, and dedication.

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But it is precisely in his spirit that we commit to protecting what he built and to carrying his company forward and his memory with respect, responsibility, and love.

Giorgio Armani was 91 years old.

BLITZER: And our deepest, deepest condolences to his family. May his memory be a blessing.

Still ahead, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is in the hot seat right now up on Capitol Hill. We're watching the hearing as the Health and Human Services secretary faces a grilling from senators as he upends America's public health system.

Stay with us, lots going on. You're in The Situation Room.

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BLITZER: All right. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. making his opening statement before the Senate right now. Let's listen in.

ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., HHS SECRETARY: -- Who gave his life to stop the gunfire attack on the CDC on August 8th. Officer Rose was a veteran. He was a husband and the father of two children. Officer Rose's widow, whom I visited, is expecting their third child.

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I'd like Officer Rose's family to know that he remains in our prayers and that he will continue to be in our thoughts.

Let me start with the big picture. Under President Trump's leadership, we at HHS are enacting a once in a generation shift from a sick care system to a true healthcare system that tackles the root causes of chronic disease.

Chronic diseases reach crisis proportions in our country. And, finally, we have an administration that is taking action. The MAHA report assessment, which the White House released in May, was the first government analysis to the key drivers of childhood chronic disease, ultra-processed foods, chemical exposures, physical inactivity, and overmedicalization.

This month, we will follow with the MAHA report strategy, the Trump administration solution for addressing each cause. At HHS, we haven't just been writing reports. We have been the busiest, most proactive administration in HHS history. And just half a year, we've taken on food dyes, baby formula contamination, the GRAS loophole, fluoride in our drinking water, gas station heroin, electronic cigarettes, drug prices, prior authorization, information blocking.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It takes over three months to get prior authorization. Senator Kennedy --

SEN. MIKE CRAPO (R-ID): The committee will come to order.

I apologize to you for that outburst, Secretary Kennedy. I would notify everyone else in the audience, comments from the audiences, our audience, are inappropriate, if there are any further disruptions, the committee will recess until the police can restore order.

Mr. Secretary, please proceed.

KENNEDY: As I was saying, prior authorization, information blocking and healthcare interoperability, we are ending in a function research, child mutilation and reducing animal testing.

We are addressing cell phone use in schools, excessive screen time for youth, the lack of nutrition education in our medical schools, sickle cell anemia, hepatitis C, the East Palestine Chemical spill, and many, many others.

At FDA, we are now on track to approve more drugs this year than at any time in history. I'm also proud to say that HHS under President Trump is doing more with less. We have taken measures to fight waste, fraud, and abuse. Just by eliminating duplicative enrollments in CMS, we are saving taxpayers $14 billion a year. Meanwhile, we are expanding access for people who need it. We are ending races, diversity, equity, and inclusion practices, and instead focusing on aiding low income and vulnerable families regardless of their race, which was the original intent of Title 10.

We're also pouring a billion dollars into Headstart and the administration for children and families. Compassion need not be the casualty of efficiency.

I'd like to highlight some issues that have not gotten media attention. First, we are doing our part to fill the president's commitment to stop human trafficking, especially of children. We inherited a terrible humanitarian crisis from the previous administration with its open border policies, which allowed the appalling loss of 476,000 unaccompanied children. We have implemented policies now to ensure that that appalling tragedy can never happen again. We have knocked on 82,000 doors and located 22,000 of those children. I promise you that we will do more in the next three years.

We are also addressing the disastrous health conditions in tribal communities on Native American reservations. I've met face-to-face with tribal leaders in dozens of communities and tribes in Alaska, Arizona, Idaho, New Mexico, and elsewhere. And I look forward to making HHS resources more available to those communities.

One of the most significant initiatives under President Trump is the Rural Health Transformation Fund, part of the president's big, beautiful Bill, which will provide the greatest investment of federal money into rural healthcare in history.

Finally, I would like to address the reason shakeups at CDC.

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These changes were absolutely necessary adjustments to restore the agency to its role as the world's gold standard public health agency with a central mission of protecting Americans from chronic -- from infectious disease. CDC failed that response of your ability miserably during COVID when its disastrous and nonsensical policies destroyed small businesses, violated civil liberties, closed our schools, caused generational damage in doing so, mass infants with no science and heightened economic inequality. And yet all those oppressive and unscientific interventions failed to do anything about the disease itself.

America is home to 4.2 percent of the world's population, yet we had nearly 20 percent of the COVID deaths. We literally did worse than any country in the world. And the people at CDC who oversaw that process, who put masks on our children, who closed our schools, are the people who will be leaving.

And that's why we need bold, competent, and creative new leadership at CDC, people who are able and willing to chart a new course. As my father once said, progress is a nice word. Change is its motivator. And change has its enemies. That's why we need new blood at CDC. That's also why it's imperative that we remove officials with conflicts of interest and catastrophically bad judgment and political agendas.

We need unbiased, politics-free, transparent, evident-based science in the public interest. Those are the guiding principles behind the changes at the CDC, and that is what you can expect all across our agency for the next three years.

CRAPO: Thank you very much, Mr. Secretary.

I'll begin with the questioning. And one of the first things I'd like to talk to you about is actually something that is under the auspices of CMS. And I spoke with Dr. Oz last night about this. I'm sure you're very familiar with it though, and that is that in the, one big, beautiful bill, there's all there's a lot of attacks right now going on publicly about hospitals are in trouble, and the blame for that is placed on the bill, even though the bill hasn't even been implemented yet.

The fact is this committee held hearings on the troubles that rural hospitals are facing in the United States before the passage of the one big, beautiful bill. They've been facing difficulties in rural America for a number of years now. And the bill, the one big, beautiful bill contained a rural health transformation program, which I would just like to ask you to comment on. This is the program which allocated $50 billion over the next five years to our rural community hospitals in the United States to help them deal with some of the financial crises that they are facing and transition to more stability.

Could you comment on that program that is in the one big, beautiful bill?

KENNEDY: Yes, Senator. One of President Trump's campaign promises and one of the principal preoccupations, not only of Republican senators when I did my confirmation hearing, but also almost equally among Democratic senators with this crisis in rural health, we've had 120 rural hospitals closed over the past ten years. These institutions are not just delivering health access to rural Americans but they're economic centers. They're cultural centers for those communities. They are often the largest employer. They are the highest paying jobs, and they are the centerpiece for those communities. So, when they die, the communities collapse.

And President Trump promised to do something about that, and he has delivered on that promise. Right now, we spend about 6 percent of Medicaid funding is sent to rural hospitals, a very, very tiny slice, and that's one of the reasons they're in trouble. President Trump has now allocated through the one big, beautiful bill of $50 billion, so $10 billion a year over the next five years.

What we give to rural hospitals, that 6 percent represents $19 billion a year, so we're increasing that by $10 billion. So, we're infusing more than 50 percent increase in the amount of money that is going to rural communities over the next five years. There's never been anything like that in history. It is the biggest investment and it should stem this hemorrhage.

CRAPO: Well, thank you. And I appreciate your, your giving clarity to that because, it is frustrating to see these continuous allegations that the difficulties that our rural hospitals are facing.

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