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The Situation Room

Religious Resurgence in Young Men?; Country Receives Failing Grade in Education; Interview With Rep. Suhas Subramanyam (D-VA); More Epstein Documents Released. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired September 09, 2025 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Happening now: Members of Congress just wrapped up their weekly news conferences amid fallout over those new documents turned over by convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein's estate, and, in that release, Epstein's last will and testament, his now-infamous 2007 non-prosecution agreement, and a 50th birthday book gifted to Epstein.

That book includes this photo right here of Epstein holding an oversized check made to look like a payment from now President Trump. The text reads -- quote -- "Jeffrey showing early talents with money and women." CNN has reached out to the White House about that photo.

Also in the book, a note bearing President Trump's name alongside a crude drawing of a woman's body. President Trump has repeatedly denied writing the letter and sued "The Wall Street Journal," which first reported it in July, for defamation.

Now, White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt, writing on social media -- quote -- "It's very clear President Trump did not draw this picture and he did not sign it. President Trump's legal team will continue to aggressively pursue litigation."

Joining us now is Democratic Congressman Suhas Subramanyam of Virginia. He is a member of the House Oversight Committee.

Hi, Congressman.

So what stood out to you in this latest batch?

REP. SUHAS SUBRAMANYAM (D-VA): I think what's standing out to me is, one, we're starting to get a better picture of what's going on, what happened with Jeffrey Epstein.

We also already caught the president in a lie, really. I mean, the signature on there really matches the kind of signature he would have made back in that time, and it matches many of the signatures from that time. So the president has already been caught in a few lies related to this. I think now we're starting to see the motivation for why there's a cover-up, why this administration is so reluctant to release files that we have been asking for and we have continued to push for.

The other thing is, there's more documents to come. It's House Democrats on the Oversight Committee that have been pushing to get these documents, pushing to subpoena the estate, pushing to subpoena others who are involved in the sweetheart deal. And so we're going to continue to push because, right now, the more we push, the more we find.

BROWN: Right.

And, as you know, as I noted, Donald Trump denies that signature, but if you look at documents around the time of this, it does appear to be very similar. But I just to follow up on that. You think this is an important part of what's been released. But even Republican Congressman Thomas Massie, who continues to break from his party on Epstein, called this a distraction and argued that having a birthday card from Trump doesn't help the survivors.

Do you disagree with him?

SUBRAMANYAM: Oh, very much so. I mean, tell that to the victims, that the pain that they felt, as well as the way that they were treated afterwards -- I mean, what -- the survivors came to us, and the speaker was in the room, and they said over and over again, this government failed them. They failed to pursue justice.

They would tell them to trust investigators or prosecutors. Those same investigators and prosecutors would turn around and help Epstein and get him the sweetheart deal. And so many of the people were actually sexually abused while he was on work release, for instance. I mean, that's something that's wrong with our country, if someone powerful and rich can get off, right?

And so that's why we're pursuing this so hard, is because this isn't just about one particular case or isolated incidents. It's about something much larger. It's about miscarriages of justice in our country.

BROWN: The Republican chairman of your committee, James Comer, says Democrats cherry-picked and politicized these materials by releasing some of them publicly before the full batch went out.

What is your response to him?

SUBRAMANYAM: Oh, we're looking for the truth. Honestly, if there's Democrats in those documents, they should be released too and they should be paying for their crimes as well. I don't care if it's a Democrat or a Republican, and I don't care how high this goes, even if it goes all the way to the top to the president.

We have to continue to name names. We have to continue to pursue justice, because these victims -- and there were hundreds of victims -- never got the justice that they deserved.

BROWN: All right. So let's look ahead what else could be coming out.

You have attorneys for Epstein's estate saying that they're going to continue supplying documents to your committee on a rolling basis. What specifically are you waiting for?

SUBRAMANYAM: Well, this was only the first batch from the estate. Think about that. Look at how much we have already discovered in just a preliminary batch. We have got our oversight team lawyers.

They're going to go up and look at more unredacted files in New York. But in the end, I think the more that we push -- and it's been Oversight Democrats pushing with one or two Republicans in support -- the more we will find.

And what I want is a full picture of Epstein's business dealings, a full picture of his social circles and a full picture of his crimes, because they were all related. And even if this goes all the way to the top, we have to find names. We have to find out what happened. We have to make sure this never happens again in our country.

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BROWN: All right, Congressman, thank you so much for your time.

SUBRAMANYAM: Thank you.

BROWN: And still ahead right here in THE SITUATION ROOM: Failing grade, the nation's report card now revealing an alarming drop in math, reading, and science.

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WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: New this morning, a shocking report on America's children. High school students are now falling behind in both math and reading. And the trend is part of a very troubling ongoing yearslong academic decline. The data comes from the National Assessment of Education Progress, which is a federal standardized test.

Last year's reading score was the lowest in the history of the assessment. In math, scoring was the lowest in some 20 years.

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For all the latest, we're joined now by CNN chief data analyst, Harry Enten.

Harry, can you unpack these very troubling findings for us?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Yes, OK, Wolf. And, yes, they are extremely troubling. And we will start off with reading.

OK, 12th graders scoring at least basic, this is just partial -- at least partial knowledge. We're not even talking about proficient here. And we're certainly not talking about advanced. We're just talking about at least basic. And let's start with reading. I mean, you go back, in 2013, it was 74 percent, 2015, 72 percent, 2019, 70 percent.

Now we're talking 67 percent. And so what I think is so important to point out is a lot of people might say, oh, it was COVID. COVID is causing these declines. Look, it might have exacerbated the trend line. But this trend line of going downward dates back all the way to the middle of the last decade, long before COVID actually hit the United States back in 2020.

And when we're talking here about reading and 67 percent who scored at least basic, keep in mind that the proficient number is about half this level, about half this level. And the advanced number is only about 5 percent of those 12th graders are scoring advanced on this.

So we're just talking at least basic, and this trend line extremely troubling. Only two-thirds, only two-thirds of 12th graders scored at least basic on reading. Now, of course, we're not just talking reading here, Wolf. We're talking about mathematics as well. And the scores are even lower. What are we talking about here?

Twelfth graders scored at least basic on math, again, it's the same trend line that we saw in reading. And, again, this is just at least basic, 65 percent in 2013, 62 percent in 2025, 59 percent in 2019. And then we get 55 percent. The bottom has fallen out here in mathematics.

And, of course, what's so important to note here, 55 percent, what does that mean? That means, get this, about 45 percent, about 45 percent can't even score at least basic in reading. Oh, my God, nearly half of 12th graders, seniors in the United States of America are basically failing when it comes to simple mathematics, Wolf.

This is scary stuff.

BLITZER: Very scary.

Was this drop-off, Harry, just limited to high school seniors?

ENTEN: Yes, OK, so we have been talking about high schoolers, right? We spoke about high schoolers when it comes to math. We spoke about high schoolers when it came to reading. But they also tested eighth graders, those who were going in, going into high school, and they tested them on science.

And look here. Eighth graders scoring at least basic on science, it's the exact same trend, and on a different subject. In 2015, 68 percent, 2019, 67 percent. And now we're talking about 62 percent only at least scoring basic, just 62 percent, on science.

Again, the inverse of that is we're talking about nearly two in five, nearly two in five of those who have graduated middle school, Wolf, who have graduated middle school, who can't even score at least basic on science? My goodness gracious. So, mathematics, reading, and science, eighth graders and 12th graders, we are seeing clear declines on just basic levels.

And, again, on advanced levels, we're really only talking about a third across the board. And when we're talking about -- excuse me -- proficient levels. And advanced levels, we're only talking about 5 percent. So, the bottom line is, when it comes to education, we're heading in the wrong direction.

Hopefully, we're able to figure something out, because, soon enough, if you can't read, you can't write, you can't do science, there's not a whole heck of a lot you can do with your life.

BLITZER: Yes, it's so disturbing, indeed.

Harry Enten, thank you very, very much -- Pamela.

ENTEN: Thank you.

BROWN: Very, very troubling to see those numbers.

BLITZER: Yes.

BROWN: Thanks, Harry.

Well, up next: a religious resurgence led by Gen Z's young men, but what's behind it? We look into it in a SITUATION ROOM special report.

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RICHARD REEVES, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN INSTITUTE FOR BOYS AND MEN: And I think that hunger for an answer to the question among young men of how should I be in the world is, to some extent, being answered by religion.

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BROWN: A Christian resurgence?

Gen Z is reversing a decades-long trend of a declining number of people in the U.S. identifying as Christian, with Gen Z men in particular being more likely to regularly attend religious services than millennials and even some younger Gen X'ers, according to a 2024 analysis by political scientist Ryan Burge at the University of Illinois.

The shift in men's religious affiliation was one of the big reasons I felt compelled to sit down with Richard Reeves, who is the founding president of the American Institute of Boys and Men, which uses evidence-based research to understand all the unique challenges facing boys and men.

His research indicates that what's driving many young men back to the church is a desire for discipline and structure in their lives, something that being part of a religious community can provide to them.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BROWN: Why are so many Gen Z men in particular flocking to religion right now?

REEVES: I think that young men are searching for structure and meaning and purpose and maybe for some formation, like some moral formation. That sounds like a really old-fashioned word.

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But if you think about all the influencers online saying you should work out this way, or have a cold plunge, or this is your morning routine or whatever, all of those are -- they're a demand for discipline in a way. They're a demand for structure. They're saying, tell me how to be in the world.

And I think that hunger for an answer to the question among young men of how should I be in the world is to some extent being answered by religion, because that does provide you with community structure, purpose, meaning.

And so I interpret it as an expression of a real hunger among young men to -- in a way, I think it's about finding your place in the world. It's about finding some solid ground to stand on. And that could come about in different ways, but I think some young men are trying to find that in religion now, a sense of themselves just by going to those institutions.

BROWN: And what kind of religion? Are we talking about, like, Orthodox, Christianity, Catholicism? What do you see?

REEVES: The evidence I have seen suggests that it is the more traditional religion, so it is Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, et cetera, which are very -- they're very structured. They haven't changed very much.

I was actually a Latin mass at a Roman Catholic cathedral quite recently, so it was almost two hours, mostly in Latin, a lot of it standing, and it was full of young men. And I was really struck by that. And I have spoken to some of the young men there and at other churches, and it confirms my suspicion that this is largely not politically driven.

It's more a sense of identity. It's more a sense of wanting to belong, wanting structure, wanting somewhere to go, maybe wanting somewhere you're welcomed to some extent. But it's interesting to me that it does seem to be those more traditional religions, or the more demanding religions, almost, that -- attracting more men.

It's almost like they want it to be quite hard. They want it to be quite old. They want it to be real. They want it to be authentic. And so you go to those really old religions, very traditional. And so in some ways I think that, because so many of our other traditions have fallen away around men, right, traditions of being a breadwinner, traditions of being head of the household -- and, to be clear, good news, because that's largely because of the rise of women. But if you're a young man today and you're looking for traditions to attach yourself to, maybe religion offers that in a way that some of the other things don't anymore. We're seeing that young men are a little bit more religious now than young women, which is -- it's a small gap, but, nonetheless, it's striking because it never goes that way around.

Historically, it's typically been women who are more religious than men. And so the stereotype is, if you see a guy in church, his wife or girlfriend's brought him there, whereas now you're seeing these churches filling up with men who are going on their own or going with their friends.

And so the turn to religiosity is a little bit stronger among young men than among young women.

BROWN: When did you start seeing that turn with more young men turning to religion?

REEVES: Just in the last few years.

BROWN: Why do you think that is?

REEVES: So this is really, really recent.

BROWN: You think COVID may have played a role?

REEVES: COVID definitely. So, young men are a little bit more socially isolated than young women. That's a problem generally. Isolation and loneliness are a problem generally, but young men are a little bit more likely to be isolated. And COVID definitely added to that.

So what in some ways I think about is, there have been various phases where you have seen a lot of men going online. You have seen a lot of young men become quite isolated. And now I think some of them are coming out of that a little bit. So here's the positive interpretation. They're starting to realize themselves that they need to do more to connect, to get out, to find structure and purpose.

So I think what's happening is that young men are themselves coming to realize that there's something missing in their lives that no one else is going to provide for them. They're going to have to go find it for themselves. In the past, your role was kind of defined for you. There aren't enough tradwives to go around, to put it bluntly, right? They're just aren't.

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REEVES: So one of the things I always say to young men, if they are leaning very conservative and saying, well, I just want a kind of -- I want a woman who just wants to kind of do what I say and stay at home and raise kids and grow carrots or whatever, I'm like, well, good luck with that, because there's a few of them on TikTok, but there aren't very many in the real world. Women quite rightly are taking their place in the labor market. Women

are quite rightly asserting their economic independence. And if you want a romantic future, you better get used to that idea, rather than hearkening to the past.

And so, at their worst, some of the religious institutions can act as a false call that we can somehow go backwards. And whether they say it explicitly or not, what they're sometimes saying is, and for that to happen, we need men to become more economically dominant over women again, and women need to know their place.

And that is morally wrong, theologically flawed, and incredibly bad advice to a young man today.

BROWN: What about just seeking certainty in an uncertain, chaotic world? How much do you think that plays into it as well?

REEVES: The really traditional and highly structured religions don't ask as much of you as an individual, other than that you just come and participate.

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BROWN: And bear through a two-hour Latin service, standing.

REEVES: And do it, yes. It's just do it.

(CROSSTALK)

REEVES: And I think, in some ways, I do think that's quite appealing to a lot of young men, because the question a lot of them are asking is not, how should I feel? It's, what should I do?

They're looking for a to-do list. And I think, honestly, one of the problems with our contemporary culture -- and here I will put more of the blame on the progressive left -- has been to provide a very long list of don'ts to young men, don't mansplain, don't be toxic, don't take up too much space, et cetera, but not very many do's.

And so we have ended up with a situation where there's a lot more don'ts than there are do's. And I think there's a real hunger among a lot of young men for someone to help them or an institution to show them what to do, rather than how to feel. And I think that might be one of the reasons why these traditional religions are doing well.

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BROWN: And if you want to watch any of our previous segments with Richard Reeves and some of these unique challenges facing boys and men, you can go to my social media @PamelaBrownCNN or visit the SITUATION ROOM page on our CNN Web site.

Thank you so much for joining us this morning.

BLITZER: "INSIDE POLITICS WITH DANA BASH" is coming up next, right after a short break.