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Stars Shine at Emmy Awards; Robert F. Kennedy Jr. to Further Restrict COVID-19 Vaccines?; Rise of Political Violence. Aired 11:30a- 12:00p ET

Aired September 15, 2025 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Happening now: In the aftermath of Charlie Kirk's killing, members of both political parties say the rhetoric must change before there is more violence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): We are more divided than we have been probably in my lifetime or yours. And if we don't collectively try to come together to fix it, I think it can get worse. It can get a lot worse.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Joining us now are a bipartisan duo who travel the country touting their efforts, former Trump campaign adviser David Urban and former Biden White House communications director Kate Bedingfield. They're both CNN political commentators.

I actually didn't even realize that you two sort of go on the road. You have gone all over the world talking to companies from a Democratic perspective, a Republican perspective what's happening in politics. You have both been steeped in American politics for so long.

David, to start with you, how did we get to this point where political differences are increasingly turning to violence?

DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, Pam, I don't know how we got there. I think it's a combination of lots of things, right?

There's disconnections in society. People -- it's multisymptomatic. I don't think it's -- as you alluded to, it didn't happen overnight. We're not going to get out overnight. And I think there is -- there are -- Governor -- the Utah governor coined this phrase the other day, conflict entrepreneurs, which I think is a really interesting way to look at things.

But social media doesn't reward people like Kate and myself who are moderates who kind of come to the middle, we don't have millions of followers on Twitter, or on Facebook, or on Instagram, but because we're moderates.

The more extreme you are in your party, whether you're a Democrat or Republican, the algorithm rewards that, right? There's money to be made there. And so -- but if you're a House member, if you're a moderate House member, you kind of get lost in the cacophony.

But if you're AOC, or if you're Marjorie Taylor Greene, you raise millions of dollars. You're at the top of your shows. You're out on the road talking to different groups. People pay you to come and speak to their groups. And so that whole conflict entrepreneurial system, I think, rewards people who are more extreme.

And, by the way, the way our Congress is set up, right, of the 435 House members, there are about 20 that actually have to campaign, because these districts are drawn --

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Well, I was just going to say, the gerrymandering, I mean, that's only going to fuel the fire of -- there is no mechanism for people to moderate.

(CROSSTALK)

URBAN: You're not rewarded for being a moderate. You're rewarded for being an extremist.

KATE BEDINGFIELD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right. Right.

URBAN: You will lose in a primary to a Democrat or Republican if you're a moderate. So --

BEDINGFIELD: Yes, I think no question gerrymandering is a part of it. And I think social media creates almost a false sense of community. It's like people think, well, if I'm talking on this platform and people are hearing me and they're commenting, well, then I'm engaged in political discourse.

And the reality is, the discourse that happens on social media is actually so far removed from where the vast majority of Americans, everyday Americans, are in terms of their politics. And so I do think there's been a really distorting impact.

And I will say, when we travel and talk to people, you mostly hear people say, I don't really get what's going on, on Twitter. I don't like that conversation. That doesn't represent me. You mostly hear people saying, how are we going to get back to a place where people with different viewpoints can actually work together?

URBAN: Extremists get an outside voice on social media. That's the problem.

BEDINGFIELD: Right.

URBAN: They're rewarded for it. People -- again, Kate and myself, we have more things in common. People -- when we go and we talk to groups, people are amazed at how much we share, how much commonality we share.

And I think, listen, Charlie Kirk like him or not like him, what Charlie Kirk was doing is he was doing it exactly the right way. He was going out, meeting people on their own terms, meeting people where they were, and engaging in political discourse, marketplace of ideas.

If you look at some of these videos, some of the places where you look and you see Charlie Kirk's most -- when his humanity really shines through is people who he really doesn't agree with. And in certain instances, whether religion, sexual orientation, some of the really big issues, he has the most pleasant discourse with in some of these cases.

Now, listen, it wasn't all perfect. He's a human. He wasn't a deity. But he was doing it the right way, right? We should encourage more people to be like Charlie Kirk on both sides. I wish there was much more of that going on, on college campuses. But somehow along the way, we got lost and words became violence.

On college campuses, people -- these kids got to be such -- they would be afraid if somebody said something might hurt their feelings. They need a safe space. We need to get back where you could have discourse, we could talk about things. It's meant to be -- it doesn't -- it's not going to be comfortable all the time to have these discussions about race, politics.

[11:35:06]

There's lots of things that are uncomfortable. Doesn't mean it's bad. We should be having those. That's how you get to commonality. Again, to quote Charlie Kirk, right, discourse is good. When you stop talking, that's when the fights start.

BROWN: Yes, and you were saying how you will have much more in common than you don't. I mean, you obviously differ on, it seems like just about every policy situation.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: But I think, in the society, when you look at it, people are demonizing the other -- the -- quote, unquote -- "other side," right, based on the politics.

But, really, like you reflect the shared humanity and that you do have more in common than you don't.

BEDINGFIELD: Yes, and we're able to -- we're able to joke. We're able to laugh. We talk to each other occasionally about what's going on in our lives. We disagree vehemently on policy.

I mean, David and I can go at it. And we have.

(CROSSTALK)

URBAN: Yes.

BEDINGFIELD: But we can still talk to each other. We can still enjoy each other's company.

URBAN: A hundred percent.

BEDINGFIELD: We can still talk about our kids and what's going on in our lives and our families.

And I think that the -- I think -- I do think that most people in this country feel that way. And there is a misrepresentation online. And you're right. I think people go to demonizing each other personally. And it's so easy. It's so much easier to do that from behind a keyboard.

BROWN: And I think, if you were to take a step back and admit it, like, once you all started talking about your family life and who you are, where you were brought up and so forth, you probably developed a little bit more empathy for one another, right, because then you realized, oh, well, this is what shaped your world view.

BEDINGFIELD: Absolutely.

BROWN: This is how you came to these policy views.

BEDINGFIELD: Absolutely.

URBAN: Well, and, again, structurally, the Congress, the way that Washington works these days, it's not designed like that.

A long time ago, before modern jet travel, right, people never left Washington. They'd raise their families here. They'd go to church together. They'd dine out. They got to know we one another as children, their spouses. They had this institution and they became much closer.

It's hard -- as you said, it's hard to demonize somebody you know their kids, their family, where they came from. And so, now what happens is every Thursday afternoon, people run to get on a plane and fly home. They go fund-raise. They come back on Monday night for a vote.

They don't talk to their colleagues. There are very few people that get along. You saw when the speaker was trying to get a moment of silence for a prayer, they almost got in a fistfight on the House floor. I mean, it is -- it's got to change. And it's only going to -- change is going to come very slowly, unfortunately, and it's not going to come without a price.

I mean, somebody's going to -- again, the conflict entrepreneurs, right, are going to lose. And there's large organizations. These -- Mark Zuckerberg doesn't let his kids have a phone. His daughters don't have phones. He limits the amount of screen time they have.

People are going to lose out. There are very powerful forces here at work that are trying to pull people in a certain direction. Yesterday, a Republican senator from Utah, Curtis, said --

BROWN: Yes, we actually sound from him. (CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Let's play it.

URBAN: Yes, there's no radical left. There's no radical right. There are just radicals.

BROWN: Yes, let's actually listen to what he said.

URBAN: Yes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN CURTIS (R-UT): I think you need to take the word radical and remove right or left, and radical on coming from any direction is not good, it's not healthy, and it should be called out.

And that's my mission is to say, look, this -- to me, this is not right, this is not left. We're talking about radicals. And that's where we need to put our attention.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So, then, I just have to follow up with you, because we did hear President Trump, for his part say, well, it's coming from the Democrats.

We know political violence, it's across the political spectrum. We have seen it against Democrats as well. Would you like to see President Trump adopt messaging more like that, David?

URBAN: Yes, look, I think Donald Trump has a unique perspective. The guy, somebody tried to blow his head off once, and then they caught another guy second time, right?

So he comes from a place -- and listen, Charlie Kirk was a very close friend of the president's.

BROWN: Yes.

URBAN: Almost like a fourth son. He was really -- the president and Charlie Kirk were actually very close.

So I'd expect the president to be angry at a certain point there, but I'd like to see that anger turn into positive action in a way we can move forward. And I think whether it's Governor -- the Utah governor's messaging on how we should move forward -- President Trump got it right the other day when he said, listen, Charlie Kirk had this message of dialogue and peaceful interaction with one another.

I mean, we would -- he said, what would your message for your followers be? Kind of like be more like Charlie Kirk. And I think that's the message I hear President Trump and all Republicans echo. Let's be more like Charlie Kirk, because he was a kind -- he was a kind individual when it came down to it and a good soul. BEDINGFIELD: President Trump has an enormous platform to unify this country, both by virtue of being president of the United States, but also by virtue of his own popularity and the influence that he wields over people who are really, really committed to him.

And so, I hate to see him abdicate in this moment a true leadership role. He has an opportunity to bring the country together, to try to start to mend some of these wounds that have hurt all of us. And so, when he leans on blaming Democrats and trying to pit us versus them in a moment where people are angry, they're upset, no question about it, but they're also looking for leadership.

[11:40:04]

And they're looking for a sense that we can be the America that we have always been, that we can be the kind of Americans that we have always been and he has an opportunity to lead in that way. And it would be powerful if he would do it.

URBAN: Yes. I would just say -- I know we got to wrap here, but Governor Cox had said this. No matter what I say, no matter what President Trump says, no matter what we say at this table, we're not going to change and shape Americans' views.

Everybody needs to look within themselves, right, and make that decision. When you're going to send out that tweet, that nasty tweet about somebody you might not know, you got to put your phone down.

BEDINGFIELD: Yes. Yes.

URBAN: Put these devices away. Go out, touch grass.

BEDINGFIELD: Yes.

URBAN: Get in touch with people. Do some things. Talk to people in line. I find I meet a lot of different people in the world waiting in an airport line, a grocery store line, when you're checking out someplace.

You meet a lot of people. Talk to one another in America. We don't do that as much as we used to. There's not as much neighborliness as there once was. And so, I like Governor Cox's messages. It is not incumbent upon one person. It's incumbent on all of us to find our humanity and try to get back to there, because political violence, clearly, we can't continue on this pace.

It is not a -- we will not become the --

BROWN: Can't have a civic society, right?

URBAN: We will not become the shining light that America used to be.

Our adversaries in China and Russia love this. They love to see us torn apart from within. And so, if you really care about your country, if you're an American, Republican or Democrat, left or right, if you care about the nation as a whole, I think we got to put down the phones, try to be kinder to one another.

It's kind of basic kindergarten stuff. Don't run with scissors, right? Be kind to one another.

BROWN: Kindergartners know a lot. They're pretty smart, right?

BEDINGFIELD: They do.

URBAN: But that's what we need to get back to.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Right. Well, thank you all for that, really important conversation in this moment. I appreciate it, both. Thank you.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: See, you can have civil conversations even if you're --

(CROSSTALK)

URBAN: And we still don't agree. Listen, we will go out and fight about politics.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: But then you also talk about how great --

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: -- with your families.

All right, David Urban, Kate Bedingfield, thank you so much.

We will be right back.

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WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: All right, new this morning, speculation is rising over the future of COVID-19 vaccines.

Officials working under the health secretary, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., are looking to tie the vaccine to safety risks for children and pregnant women. Here's how the FDA commissioner addressed the matter. Listen.

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DR. MARTY MAKARY, FDA COMMISSIONER: We are getting the data that was never made available before, including adverse event data. That is, young people who have died from the COVID vaccine, and we're going to make that available to the medical community in full transparency, because this is the question that Americans are asking.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Officials are also considering if older people should still be encouraged to get vaccinated.

CNN's medical correspondent, Meg Tirrell, joining us right now.

Meg, walk us through the latest data and the guidance.

MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, all of this comes as we are anticipating a major meeting of CDC's outside group of vaccine advisers on Thursday and Friday this week in Atlanta.

This is the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, this very influential group who has been put in place by Robert F. Kennedy Jr., when he replaced all 17 previous experts.

Now, we have learned that FDA officials are preparing potential analyses to potentially be presented at this meeting looking at what they see as case reports and possible evidence, they say, of health risks of the COVID-19 vaccine in pregnant women and in kids, in some cases, possibly using a system known as the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System, or VAERS.

Now, this has brought some alarm from public health experts, who say that CDC scientists themselves have scrutinized these data and haven't found those health concerns for those groups. Now, we have also heard that there may be a discussion at the meeting about whether the vaccine should be recommended for people starting at age 75, instead of people at age 65.

We don't know if that's going to happen, but that could make it possibly more complicated for people under 75 to get the vaccine. And, of course, that's a group, over 65, who typically does get vaccinated against COVID more and who has been shown to benefit from the vaccine.

We should note we have reached out to the Department of Health and Human Services about what we're hearing and they say -- quote -- "FDA and CDC staff routinely analyze VAERS," that database we mentioned, "and other safety monitoring data. And those reviews are being shared publicly through the established ACIP process," ACIP being that meeting that's happening later this week.

They say they're hewing to gold standard science. Well, a lot of folks, though, concerned what we might see later this week.

BLITZER: We will see what happens.

Meg Tirrell, thank you very, very much -- Pamela.

BROWN: All right, coming up: historic wins and standing ovations, the moments everyone's talking about from TV's biggest night.

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[11:53:24] BROWN: Well, new this morning, the stars are still shining after the 77th Emmy Awards. It was a big night for "The Studio." It won 13 Emmys. That is a record for a comedy series.

And Stephen Colbert got a standing ovation after winning his Emmy. Remember his, show is being canceled next year. The late-night comedian invoked Prince in his acceptance speech.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN COLBERT, HOST, "THE LATE SHOW WITH STEPHEN COLBERT": I have never loved my country more desperately. God bless America.

(CHEERING)

COLBERT: Stay strong. Be brave. And if the elevator tries to bring you down, go crazy and punch a higher floor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: "The Pitt" and "Adolescence" were also big winners. Plus, it was a historic evening for the youngest male winner ever -- Wolf.

BLITZER: So much to unpack, Pamela.

CNN entertainment correspondent Elizabeth Wagmeister is joining us right now from Los Angeles.

Elizabeth, take us through some of the biggest Emmy moments.

ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

So, I have to tell you, I was in the room last night and Stephen Colbert was the first presenter of the night. Before he even won, he walked out and got a huge standing ovation. The room was chanting his name and you saw that emotional speech that he made there, of course, after his show was canceled by CBS, the Emmys, of course, airing, well, on CBS.

Also a huge night for "The Studio," as you said, Pam. Now, "The Studio" was created by Seth Rogen, who also stars in it. It's a show that pokes fun at Hollywood. So when I caught up with him on the red carpet, I had to ask him about that. Take a look.

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WAGMEISTER: Does this mean that Hollywood actually likes to make fun of itself?

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SETH ROGEN, ACTOR AND COMEDIAN: Everyone likes to be made fun of, I think, in some ways, honestly. I think it's like, if it feels well- observed -- and I think we tried to observe it well. And then -- and also it's a show I think again that is sort of in many ways a love letter to Hollywood, and I think we try to strike that balance. So it seems, though, people could feel that in watching it, yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WAGMEISTER: Now, some other big winners, "The Pitt" coming out on top on the drama side.

Noah Wyle, who, of course, audience is also know from "E.R.," winning his first Emmy last night, best actor in a drama, that win coming 26 years after his last nomination for "E.R." Also, as you said, Owen Cooper from Netflix's "Adolescence" becoming the youngest male winner in Emmy history at just 15 years old.

And Tramell Tillman from "Severance" also making history, winning best supporting actor in a drama and becoming the first black actor to ever win in that category.

BLITZER: Elizabeth Wagmeister, as usual, thank you very, very much.

BROWN: Thanks, Elizabeth.

BLITZER: And, to our viewers, thanks very much for joining us this morning -- Pamela.

BROWN: "INSIDE POLITICS" with our friend and colleague Dana Bash is next right after a short break.

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