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The Situation Room

Interview With Geraldo Rivera; Kissing Bug Disease; Jimmy Kimmel Placed on Indefinite Suspension; Interview With Rep. Jason Crow (D-CO). Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired September 18, 2025 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: All right, don't go too far away. We have more to discuss. There's a lot of legal stuff going on, including your new book, which is excellent as well.

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Thanks.

BLITZER: I want to get some more analysis right now. Here to discuss this, the former FOX News, the former ABC News host, former daytime talk show host Geraldo Rivera.

Geraldo, thanks very much for joining us. You and I go way back.

GERALDO RIVERA, FORMER FOX NEWS HOST: My pleasure.

BLITZER: Did ABC make the right call and pulling Jimmy Kimmel off the air at least temporarily after the FCC chair told the companies -- quote -- "We could do this the easy way or the hard way"? That was a clear threat.

RIVERA: You know, by focusing on the censorship aspect and the First Amendment aspect, I think it's losing sight of what should be the lead. And that's that Jimmy Kimmel owes the family of Charlie Kirk and his wife, Erika, two small children, an apology.

He -- what's he saying, that if you're a member of MAGA and Charlie is a friend of MAGA, then he had it coming? It just -- it's -- in some ways, it's very, extremely, extremely insensitive. The country's in a very tough spot right now. Everyone's walking on egg shells. The First Amendment is not a license to incite hatred.

And I think that we can start the discussion. Once Jimmy Kimmel apologizes, then they can talk about the business aspects and whether or not he gets back on the schedule and so forth. But there's got to be a recognition that a terrible thing has happened here and that millions of Americans are grievously hurt by what happened.

There is a -- Charlie Kirk was beloved by many. And to just trample over it, he's not even buried yet, for goodness' sakes. And to make fun of the flags and half-staff and so forth, I just think that we have got to look at it with a notion that the country has to be healed, that we have to work to bring people together, that we need to respect each other.

We don't have to agree, but we have to respect. And I think that the audience has deserted him for a good reason.

BLITZER: Let me play the full clip of what Jimmy Kimmel said and then we will assess that, because I want to make sure we have the full context of what you're suggesting, Geraldo. Listen to the this.

We're trying to get that clip back, but I'm going to play it for our viewers, because I want to make sure we have the full context of what he actually said. I think we have it right now. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY KIMMEL, HOST, "JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE": We hit some new lows over the weekend, with the MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them and doing everything they can to score political points from it.

In between the finger-pointing, there was grieving. On Friday the White House flew the flags at half-staff, which got some criticism. But on a human level, you can see how hard the president is taking this.

QUESTION: My condolences on the loss of your friend Charlie Kirk.

May I ask, sir, personally, how are you holding up over the last day- and-a-half, sir?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think very good.

And, by the way, right there, you see all the trucks.

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: They just started construction of the new ballroom for the White House, which is something they have been trying to get, as you know, for about 150 years. And it's going to be a beauty.

KIMMEL: Yes.

(LAUGHTER)

KIMMEL: He's at the fourth stage of grief, construction.

(LAUGHTER)

KIMMEL: Demolition, construction.

(APPLAUSE)

KIMMEL: This is not how an adult grieves the murder of someone he called a friend. This is how a 4-year-old mourns a goldfish, OK?

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: So what jumped out at you, Geraldo? As I said, you and I have known each other for a long time. You're also a lawyer, so you understand the legal aspects of all of this. But what specifically jumped out at you?

RIVERA: He's basically saying that members of MAGA are -- because Tyler Robinson is a member of MAGA, and, because of that, somehow, they had it coming, that Charlie Kirk had it coming, that once you go there, once embrace that philosophy, that ideology, you're fair game.

And it's just -- I think that too often we -- I my whole life, 55 years in the news business, the First Amendment has been my shield, my protection. I embrace it. I celebrate it. It's extremely important. And it is at times embattled. And I get that.

But what we don't get, the more sophisticated it seems we are, what we don't get is how grievously hurt regular people are and how difficult sometimes in positions of power, in communications or government how easy it is to overlook the sincerity of that feeling and to dismiss it, and whether at an awards show or some other wonderful, lavish setting, so easy.

[11:35:13]

But Charlie Kirk was a very simple guy. He was -- I ran into him in the Hannity green room several times, always had a good frame of mind, a positive, optimistic person. He let you say whatever you were going to say. Then he tried his best to rebut it and to have a spirited, but meaningful debate.

What I hear from Kimmel -- and I don't want anybody fired. And once he apologizes, maybe this will be -- have a different, have a happy ending, and I hope that that happens. But the First Amendment is not a license to incite hatred. And it doesn't matter that Kimmel's side...

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Let me just interrupt for a second, Geraldo. I want to get some context here, because Jimmy Kimmel, in that monologue, that late- night monologue, he was making a point about supposed right-wing finger-pointing at the left.

He was not suggesting that Tyler Robinson, the 22-year-old suspect, was MAGA. He was not necessarily making that suggestion.

RIVERA: I guess we could see it different ways. I respect you totally, and I respect your opinion on that.

I just -- I have to tell you how I responded when I first heard it. I said, really, how dare he? How schmucky can he be? We haven't buried this person yet. His family is really, really hurt, and a lot of people who love them and now identify with them are also really hurt.

And the joke at the end about the goldfish, that should have been his whole bit without -- keep Charlie Kirk out of it. Charlie Kirk did not deserve to get assassinated.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: So let me just be precise. Geraldo, let me just be precise. Do you agree with the ABC Disney decision to go ahead and suspend Jimmy Kimmel indefinitely?

RIVERA: I think that censorship sucks, Wolf, and I do not appreciate government producing shows. I think it's very dangerous. I don't -- my beef is not with -- well, I don't -- they are irrelevant to the point I'm making.

The point I'm making is about the American people, not people like the FCC commissioner or even Jimmy Kimmel. It's about the American people. The American people have suffered a trauma, a trauma that I think is minimized by smart people, sophisticated people who oppose Donald Trump. This is very simple.

Have respect. You don't have to agree with me. Have affection. Have some feeling that we have lost somehow. We have allowed that -- would -- how would the left be responding if Charlie Kirk was one of them? I just think that it's time now to not only lower the temperature, but to embrace our fellow countryperson.

It's a -- I don't know -- maybe -- I think it's being dealt with at a business level, rather than a humanitarian level.

BLITZER: So how -- are you worried, Geraldo, about free speech in our country right now?

RIVERA: We always worry about free speech. We have now for many, many years, since the 1960s. I started in 1970. We always worry about free speech. We fiercely guard it and we are very articulate and impassioned when we criticize government for it.

And thank God we have the ability to do that. I think that those cynics who suggest that Jimmy Kimmel was doing badly in the ratings -- not just the president, but a lot of commentators, even on CNN have said, have pointed out that Kimmel's ratings have flattened. But it should not matter whether his popularity affects his rights.

The beef between him and his bosses, that's between them. Let them -- they will fight it out. But I think that -- I go back to where I started minutes ago, Wolf. Jimmy Kimmel owes the family of Charlie Kirk an apology. And it's wrong to overthink it and make it about government and censorship and these other issues.

[11:40:09]

Deal with this first. Deal with the fact that America is in a tough spot. It's easy to be contemptuous of them. Better, though, to embrace a feeling of compassion. We're all in this together. Respect each other. Have respectful disagreements. But don't yell fire in a crowded theater.

BLITZER: Yes. All right, Geraldo Rivera, thank you very, very much. We will continue this conversation, to be sure, down the road.

RIVERA: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Geraldo Rivera joining us on this very sensitive, important issue.

And we will have more news right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:45:27]

BLITZER: Also happening now, members of Congress are weighing in on the ABC decision to pull late-night host Jimmy Kimmel off the air, at least for now, that move coming after the Trump administration official responsible for licensing ABC's local stations publicly pressured the company to punish Kimmel.

The reason, according to FCC chair Brendan Carr, was Kimmel's comments during his Monday night show, his reference to Charlie Kirk's killing.

Joining us now to discuss this and more, Democratic Congressman Jason Crow of Colorado. He's a key member of the House Intelligence Committee, a former U.S. Army Ranger.

Congressman, thanks so much for joining us.

First of all, do you agree with House Democratic leadership's calls for Carr to resign?

REP. JASON CROW (D-CO): Well, first of all, it's so important that we all condemn political violence and what's happening in this country right now. It doesn't matter whether you're a Republican or a Democrat or an independent. This is a moment for all of us to come around and to say this is unacceptable and it's antithetical to the American way and our democracy.

Secondly, we must make really sure that, at this moment, that we are not using this strategy or allowing others to use this tragedy to squelch free speech and dissent and the ability to protest and organize, because, if we do, everybody will ultimately lose.

BLITZER: How concerned are you, Congressman, about the broader impact of all of this decision by ABC to go ahead and temporarily at least suspend Jimmy Kimmel?

CROW: Well, this is one of many incidents in which the White House's response to this, the rhetoric coming out of the president and Stephen Miller and others, to use this terrible tragedy to target opponents, to suppress speech, to vilify, is very troubling, and it is creating a fear and intimidation that, unfortunately, some of our most elite and powerful institutions, large media conglomerates, universities, large law firms, are starting to buckle too, right?

And I contrast that kowtowing, that buckling under the pressure against the incredible courage that we're seeing out of everyday Americans, people standing up and defending speech, defending dissent.

Now, I went to war for this country three times in Iraq and Afghanistan to defend this nation, to defend our Constitution, and to defend the right of people to say things that I disagree with. And I did that because I know that fundamentally we are a nation that allows people to question authority, that allows dissent. That is, in fact, what our nation was founded upon, because power is cyclical.

Sometimes, one party is in control. Other times, the other party is in control. But always we must defend the right of those not in control and not in power to question authority and to dissent. And if we don't do that, again, everybody loses regardless of your background or your affiliation.

BLITZER: And amidst all of this, Congressman, I want to get your reaction. President Trump is now designating the far left group here in the United States Antifa as a terrorist organization.

Longtime Democratic strategist David Axelrod warns this could be used for pursuing the president's political opponents. What do you think about this?

CROW: This is exactly what I'm talking about, right? I may not agree with Antifa. And, again, I condemn violence. And if there are people coming from any direction that engage in violent or illegal behavior, yes, that is a problem.

But the second we start calling people who we disagree with terrorists or enemies of the state, that is an extremely dangerous, slippery slope, right? Once we start allowing the people in power to decide who's a terrorist, who's an enemy of the state, who has the right to dissent, who has the right to peacefully protest and organize, who has the right to speak up, that is a dangerous, dangerous place to be.

And every American, whether you're a Republican or a Democrat or an independent, must stand up and say no. If you are peacefully protesting and organizing and speaking up to question authority, that is an American right. And we will not allow anybody in power to trample on that right.

BLITZER: I want to get -- and you're a key member of the Intelligence Committee, Congressman, a U.S. military veteran.

I want to get your reaction to what President Trump said at that news conference just moments ago in the U.K., when he said that Russian leader of Vladimir Putin -- quote -- "let me down" on the war with Ukraine.

[11:50:04]

Does that give you any hope that the president will now ramp up pressure on Russia sooner rather than later?

CROW: No.

Donald Trump continues to be played by Vladimir Putin every single day. Vladimir Putin, we know him really well. Anybody who's paid attention to Vladimir Putin for decades knows that he only understands power. He only does what he's forced to do. And, right now, it is very clear Vladimir Putin thinks that he is winning and he can wait us out and wear us down and that Donald Trump's threats, many threats are hollow.

Look at how many times he has changed the goalposts over and over and over again. The threats and his supposed pressure ring hollow, and Vladimir Putin know it. And we are all less safe and strong as a nation as a result of it. Look what's happening. They're sending drones, armed drones into NATO territory, into Poland. They are threatening everyday cyberattacks against us and our allies.

Vladimir Putin is an adversary of the United States and he is responsible for the death of American soldiers. And yet, last month, what we saw are American soldiers kneeling down, literally on their knees, rolling out a red carpet for a brutal dictator who has spent his life trying to kill American soldiers for that person.

It was a disgusting moment. And we are all less safe as a result of the lack of moral clarity by this president.

BLITZER: That's when the Trump administration did in fact roll out the red carpet for Putin when he came to Alaska for his meeting with the president.

Congressman Jason Crow, as usual, thanks very much for joining us, and thanks once again for your service.

CROW: Thank you.

BLITZER: Other news we're following right now, a new report, that's coming up, involving the tropical so-called kissing bug disease.

All right, we stayed on top of this yesterday. We're getting some more information. It involves these insects known as kissing bugs that are spreading a disease which could potentially, potentially be deadly.

We're paging Dr. Sanjay Gupta right now to get some answers to questions that all of you posed.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Wolf.

BLITZER: And I want to ask you these questions. We did a full report on this yesterday, Sanjay.

The first one is from Dedra, who simply wants to know this: "What is the treatment for kissing bug disease?"

GUPTA: Yes, so there's a little bit of good news in this, in that there is a treatment. Keep in mind, Wolf, as you remember, we're talking about Chagas disease, C-H-A-G-A-S.

Typically, it was in the Tropics. As weather has become warmer in different parts of the world, these tropical diseases are finding their way to different parts of the world. So now, in the United States, six -- eight states, I should say, where it is now endemic.

It's basically a bug that leaves a parasite. That parasite can get into your body and that can cause all sorts of different symptoms. There are antiparasitic drugs out there, a couple of them, which, if taken early, can be really effective in terms of not only treating the symptoms, but preventing problems later on in life as well.

A couple of things now about these medications. You have to take them for a while. You have got to start them early, so as soon as you recognize that you have Chagas. That can be done by a blood test. Take them early and then you have to take them for about 60 days, Wolf, so quite a while.

If you do that, though, they can be really effective. When we talk about antibiotics, there's thousands of antibiotics, there's hundreds of antivirals. There's only about a few dozen antiparasitics. But, in this case, there's a good option, Wolf.

BLITZER: The next question we got as a result of your reporting yesterday is from Fatima in Miami. And she wants to know, who can -- who -- she wants to know, can it affect also pets, this kissing bug disease? Would mosquito repellent, she wants to know, help in keeping them from biting?

GUPTA: OK, so two questions here.

First of all, yes, it can affect animals, including pets, cats and dogs. Cats tend to be carriers, meaning that they may carry the parasite. They don't usually become as sick, but dogs can. They can be bit by these bugs just like humans can. That parasite can get into their body and they can have symptoms, including lethargy and fever, and they can be diagnosed with a blood test just like humans, and they can be treated as well, so very similar.

In fact, Wolf, a lot of times in the United States, they have found this parasite in animals before they have even found it in humans, sort of a harbinger of what's to come potentially. With regard to mosquito repellent, mosquito repellent, including stuff with DEET, may have a little bit of a benefit on these bugs, but that's mostly for mosquitoes.

This is different. This is a bug that leaves a parasite.

BLITZER: Interesting.

Finally, Sanjay, before I let you go, Stacy from Little Rock asks this question: "Will these bugs go away when colder weather arrives? Also, what are some of the early symptoms?"

[11:55:00]

GUPTA: Yes, so I can leave you on another bit of good news. As the weather starts to cool, this will -- the Chagas disease incidence will go down.

They don't really, really do much when it gets below about 62 degrees. They like warm weather, which is why it was in the Tropics and why we're seeing it in the Southern United States more so than the North. But, as weather cools, 62 degrees and below, you will see less and less of this.

Early symptoms, fever, headache, rash, things like that. Sometimes can be hard to tell. If you see a lesion on your face, typically -- it's called kissing bug because it bites your face -- get it checked out. You can get it diagnosed. And again, treatment is available, Wolf.

BLITZER: Why does it go for the face, as opposed to arms or something like that?

GUPTA: I think it's mostly because they're biting you at night, and you tend to have the rest of your body covered. It can bite other parts of your body, but that seems to be the most common reason why. Your face is exposed.

BLITZER: Interesting.

All right, Doc. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, as usual, thanks for the very important advice. We always appreciate you joining us.

GUPTA: You got it.

BLITZER: And, to our viewers, thanks very much for joining us this morning. We will, of course, see you back here tomorrow morning, every weekday morning, 10:00 a.m. Eastern.

"INSIDE POLITICS WITH DANA BASH" is coming up next right after a short break.