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The Situation Room

ICE Facility Shooting in Dallas; At Least One Person Killed in ICE Facility Shooting; Global Health Agencies Criticize Trump's Tylenol Claims. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired September 24, 2025 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: We're following breaking news out of Dallas where authorities say at least one victim is dead and two others are injured after a shooting at a federal immigration field office. Law enforcement officials tell CNN at least two of the victims are detainees.

Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem wrote this on social media, quote, "Details are still emerging, but we can't confirm there were multiple injuries and fatalities. The shooter is deceased by a self- inflicted gunshot wound." And she added that the motive is still unknown. We are standing by for officials there to give us an update on the shooting at an ICE facility in Dallas I was just talking about.

And we've just received this audio capturing the early response to the shooting by members of Dallas police. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, (INAUDIBLE), we got one -- well, we got one officer on scene. We got one officer route from Channel 5. And it says it's going to be a sniper on top of the roof. 8101 (INAUDIBLE). Again only two units from Channel 5. That probably the one to start that way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: I want to bring in Charles Ramsey a CNN senior law enforcement analyst Charles, you just heard that audio. What does that tell you?

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I mean they did have some information before responding when they mentioned the fact that it could be a sniper on the roof. Oftentimes when you get this kind of calls, it could just be a straight, you know, active shooter type of call and the officer doesn't know if it's a sniper involved, is it happening inside or what have you.

I don't know what kind of technology they have in Dallas PD but this would be a perfect one where if you did have access to drone technology, you believe it's a sniper, that's when the drone would be a first responder in addition to officers arriving on a scene. You're starting to see that more and more with many police departments being able to utilize that kind of technology. BROWN: Yes, and we were talking earlier about security, right. The address that they said there in that audio is the address of the ICE facility, it's still a little unclear if the sniper that they mentioned is on the route -- was on the roof of that ICE facility or another roof. But what questions does that raise for you about security at these facilities at a time when there has been an uptick and assault on ICE officers and targets of these ICE facilities being targeted, including this one, it was just targeted with a bomb threat not long ago.

RAMSEY: Yes. Well, the first thing I would think the minute I heard the word sniper is that it's some elevated ground that that individual would be on. That would be the first thought that I would have. That doesn't necessarily mean it's true, but that's what I would first think. And when you take a look at -- I mean, you just had the assassination of Charlie Kirk, sniper on a rooftop, the attempted assassination of President Trump, sniper on a rooftop. It's becoming more and more common unfortunately.

And so, when you assess security you have to look at not only the physical building and having security around that building you got to think outside of what would to traditionally be the area of concern, because we're starting to see different types of attacks now becoming more and more common.

[10:35:00]

And I hate to keep mentioning drones, but I can't think of any other way in which you can really be able to have eyes in that kind of elevated position to make sure that you don't have any threats coming from there. So, there's something that's going to have to be considered, and I'm certainly not implying that they didn't have good security at all around the facility. And sometimes stuff just happens, but it doesn't mean that you don't take a step back and reassess.

Again, not just Dallas. I think everyone needs to be stepping back and taking a second look at their facilities, their security, the perimeters that they establish in terms of security to make sure that they're really taking into account all possible threats.

I don't know whether they recently received a threat at that particular facility. I understand it was a bomb threat last summer -- or not last summer, this summer in August, but they did get a threat recently that would lead them to believe that there was going to be some kind of action taken. But again, motive is going to be something that they're going to be working to try to uncover. I don't know if we'll hear it at this press conference. This is so early in the investigation.

You may get some information. You may not get as much as you would like to have, but hopefully, at least be able to identify the shooter. And if there is a motive, it would be good to at least know the motive, because these are detainees shot. And whether or not that was intentional, did the person just randomly start shooting, and it happened to be detainees that were shot versus ICE officers, we just don't know the answer to any of that right now. BROWN: Yes, we certainly don't. And we're waiting that press conference there in Dallas. We see the video there on the screen, as officials there are expected to take the mic any moment now. Charles Ramsey, thank you so much.

Coming up, we are following that breaking news, that shooting at an ICE facility, leaving one person dead, two others injured. Waiting for those officials. We'll be back.

[10:40:00]

BROWN: The backlash to President Trump linking Tylenol use during pregnancy with autism without clear evidence is going global. Several international health agencies are now criticizing him. The United Kingdom's health secretary has told people they are, quote, ""Don't pay attention whatsoever to what Donald Trump says about medicine."

Joining us now is Karen Kossow. She has two kids with autism and is an advocate for parents of neurodivergent children. Karen, I'm going to talk to you and then I'm going to talk to a couple experts after. But when this announcement came, I just thought about parents like yourself who have children with autism who might be feeling all kinds of things, perhaps shame, perhaps guilt if they took Tylenol in pregnancy. How are you, how is your family feeling after this announcement?

KAREN KOSSOW, MOTHER OF TWO CHILDREN WITH AUTISM: We're following the news. It's just incredibly disheartening. There's many reasons that ultimately lead to an autism diagnosis. Genetic factors, environmental factors. I think this bears more research, but to just come out and tell pregnant women to stop taking Tylenol I think is dangerous. And I think that for those of us, like myself who did take it during pregnancy, it just kind of comes back to that idea that when it comes to autism, that a lot of the times it's the mother's fault. The mother did something different or did something wrong, and we're the ones bearing most of the caregiving burden and the struggles of supporting our children. And it just feels like another burden that we have to bear.

BROWN: Oh, I'm really sorry to hear that. I'm really sorry. That makes me very sad. And you know, and I also think it's important to talk about kids with autism and how -- like it's not defining, and also autism can give them a superpower and, you know, I just -- I feel like sometimes this is also giving a stigma to autism, right? That must be hard for parents like yourself and others in your community experiencing this.

KOSSOW: 100 percent. And one of the problems that you see even within the autism community itself is that the spectrum is now very wide. And it goes everywhere from a person like Elon Musk who has self- identified as being diagnosed autistic to a child who is non-speaking and needs total support for all activities of daily living. So, it's very, very wide spectrum.

And I think at both ends of the spectrum, people feel like their needs are being ignored. And when a blanket statement like this comes out saying Tylenol is the cause of autism when there's genetic factors, there's certainly environmental factors to be concerned, but at the same time, we're cutting supports for families like mine, it really leaves me wondering what the goal of that whole conference press conference was.

BROWN: When you say cutting support, how so?

KOSSOW: Oh well, I can only speak for my state. I'm in Idaho right now. And we have a 4 percent Medicaid claw back on the reimbursement rates for providers. We are already lagging behind our neighboring state of Montana in the reimbursement rates for caregivers. We are in the middle of a huge caregiving crisis.

Idaho recently terminated the Family Personal Care Service program, which enabled parents like me to be paid for the caregiving services. We were performing for our children. It was the state guidelines. Our children qualified for these services. There are no available outside caregivers. And, you know, Idaho got federal approval from CMS to terminate that program this past July.

[10:45:00]

So, when we're seeing cuts and we're not getting the support that we need for the autistic families and children that are already here and we're, you know, blaming mothers for taking Tylenol without further research on the effects when it's the only available pain reliever women can take when they're pregnant. It just seems irresponsible.

BROWN: All right. Karen, stand by. I want to bring in two medical experts. We have Dr. Natalie Crawford, a fertility physician, and Professor Renee Gardner, a principal researcher at the Karolinska Institute's Global Health Department in Sweden.

Professor Gardner, I want to go to you first because you did this huge study that actually I looked at when I was pregnant last year gave me a lot of peace of mind taking Tylenol when I had COVID and the flu. You compared siblings who were born to the same mother when the mom took acetaminophen during one pregnancy but not the other. How did your findings square with what the Trump administration says?

PROF. RENEE GARDNER, PRINCIPAL RESEARCHER, KAROLINKA INSTITUTE DEPARTMENT OF GLOBAL PUBLIC HEALTH: I would say they don't square at all, as a matter of fact. We did this study for precisely the reason you said. We wanted to be able to give good answers to expectant parents and to parents of children with autism, and we didn't see any connection between acetaminophen use during pregnancy and children's likelihood of conditions like autism or ADHD when we were able to do that really good comparison where we looked at siblings who were born to the same mom and the same dad.

BROWN: So, Dr. Crawford, I want to bring you in. I'm sure you've looked at that study and mentioned it to your patients. So, the president repeatedly stated on Monday when he made this announcement there is, quote, "No downside for pregnant women to avoid Tylenol" and that pregnant women should just, quote, "tough it out." What is your response to that and how are you advising your patients in light of this new government guidance?

DR. NATALIE CRAWFORD, FERTILITY PHYSICIAN: Well, it's actually a false statement because fever itself can be very dangerous in pregnancy. We know that having a fever defined as a temperature over 100.4 degrees Fahrenheit can cause neurodevelopmental delay like autism itself but also miscarriage, birth defects, preterm birth, stillbirth, growth restriction. Those things are not associations, those are known consequences that can happen from a fever.

So, we want pregnant women to feel like they have all options available to them. If they do have a fever, they need to be treated in addition to the fact that pain control is really important for women, for pregnant women. Pain can be very stressful. We want pregnant women to know that there is no proven link that Tylenol causes autism and in fact, the consequence of not treating a fever can be much more devastating even when it comes to the brain's development.

So, I'm still telling my patients to take Tylenol. I'm still telling them, as we always have for pregnant women, you know, don't take anything more than you need to but if you're in pain, if you have a fever, you should know that there are medical options that exist and it's important for the public to know that other pain and fever medications are not recommended in pregnancy. So, this is one of the only medical options for women, and taking this away really is a disservice to all pregnant patients out there.

BROWN: And Dr. Crawford, have you been getting a lot more calls from your patients seeking clarity on this? Tell us about that and the confusion this might have caused.

DR. CRAWFORD: I have. This is causing such confusion because already pregnant women have so much fear about what they can do. They want to do everything right for their baby. And when you have somebody who's leading the country giving information who's not trained in medical facts and it's not just false information, it can be harmful for patients.

So, people are very confused. I'm glad we're having a discussion that can help educate patients and the public in general because we know everybody's just looking for that right answer for what to do for their pregnancy. And of course, we want more people who have autism to get the help and the resources they needed and falling back on saying Tylenol is the cause when we know that it is not can be really concerning.

BROWN: Professor Gardner, what do you say to concerned moms out there with children with autism like Karen here who may now be feeling shame and guilt, it's my fault, right, out of concern that they took Tylenol during pregnancy that could have caused their child's autism? That's what they may be thinking now after this announcement. What's your message to them?

GARDNER: You know, in the field of psychiatry we actually have a pretty dark history of blaming the mothers. So, when we first started to even consider the condition of autism and what might be the cause, the very first place that doctors and researchers looked was actually at the mother's behavior. And so, I'm really concerned that this hearkens back to those darker days where we blame the behavior of parents for the child's condition.

And so, my message to them would be exactly as it was said before that this is a really complex condition that arises from a complex interplay between genetics and the environment.

[10:50:00]

And that -- to blame oneself for what might happen for any health effect in their child is really something that's not useful. It's -- certainly beyond any of the science that we have. And so, I think that we should definitely try to be reassuring to those parents.

BROWN: So, those parents including Karen right here. I'm going to bring you back in to wrap this up, Karen. What is your message to the president and his administration about this announcement? And I know it's not just you, you're talking to other mothers in this community, other parents who are reacting to this. What is your message?

KOSSOW: We need support and we need valid science and research that helps support the children that are here, the families that are living with it that doesn't necessarily seek to cure autism but to find ways to improve communication to reduce the suffering that autistic children and adults go through because the world just isn't set up for us and that goes hand in hand with supporting families because when families do better so do their children.

BROWN: Just really quickly, do you have a reaction to the White House announcing this leucovorin as a potential treatment?

KOSSOW: I do in a couple of different ways to look at that. One, like we saw with Ozempic, I don't want the patients who need it most to lose access to it because a bunch of, I don't want to say off-label use because I'm not a physician, but using it for other purposes than what it was originally intended.

Also, there's a long history in the autism community as well of very harmful interventions. We can use that word very loosely, I think. I'm just really concerned that parents that are desperate for support and desperate for help and answers are going to see this as an opportunity to, you know, quote/unquote, "heal their child." And it may work for a certain subset of autistic children, there may be some results and some benefit, but it is not just a blanket cure for autism.

BROWN: Really important to hear your perspective, Karen, in this conversation, as well as yours, Dr. Crawford and Professor Gardner. Thank you all so much.

KOSSOW: Thank you.

BROWN: And coming up, we're following breaking news out of Dallas. A shooting at an ICE facility leaves one person dead and two others injured. We're waiting for officials to give an update and we'll bring that to you live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:55:00]

BROWN: We are following breaking news out of Texas. We're waiting for officials in Dallas to give an update on a shooting at an ICE facility there. At least one person is dead and two others were wounded. Law enforcement officials tell CNN that at least two detainees were shot. The deputy director of ICE says no ICE officers were injured and the shooter is dead. CNN's Ed Lavandera is on the scene awaiting that update. What more are we learning, Ed?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, as you mentioned, we are waiting for that press conference. We were told it should happen within the next 30 minutes or so. But the governor of Texas putting out this statement just a short while ago, and I'll read it now, it says, this assassination will not slow our arrest, detention, and deportation of illegal immigrants. Both Texas Department of Public Safety and Texas National Guard working closely with ICE.

I want to point out the language there, the language of using the word assassination. He didn't -- the governor does not specify who was shot and killed and who the victims might be, but the word assassination in that statement kind of stands out. So, we'll try to get more clarity on all of that.

But Pamela, let me kind of give you a sense of where this shooting has taken place here this morning in Dallas. We are along the service road of Interstate 35, which heads down into downtown Dallas. That way, the ICE facility, you can see over my shoulder where all the flashing lights are there, and it is a facility where detainees, immigrants are brought as they're being processed and will eventually be sent to detention centers in other parts of the country.

So, the great deal of the focus, as we've learned from the reporting, is that the shooting took place from an elevated position. That would suggest that would happen on the backside of the building here. So, we're going to wait for more details on all of that here in the coming moments.

BROWN: All right. Ed Lavandera, a lot going on there in Dallas. I know you'll bring us the very latest. And we are watching that update from officials there. We'll bring that to you live. You're in The Situation Room. We'll be right back.

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