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The Situation Room

DOJ Close to Deciding Whether to Charge James Comey; Parent's Only Child Killed in Gaza Strikes; Trump Admin. Presents Gaza Peace Plan to Arab Leaders; Trump Meets with Turkish President. Aired 10:30- 11a ET

Aired September 25, 2025 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Back to our top story right now. Sources say an acting U.S. attorney, handpicked by President Trump, is very close to asking a grand jury to indict the former FBI Director James Comey on perjury charges. The case centers around Comey's 2020 testimony about the FBI investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election.

Joining us now is CNN's Senior Legal Analyst and former assistant U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York, Elie Honig. Eli, it's a fairly low bar for evidence needed to secure an initial indictment from a grand jury. They used to say a prosecutor can always indict a ham sandwich. How challenging would an indictment be in this specific instance?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST AND FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK: Well, Wolf, the bar is indeed low. There is some truth to that old saying about the ham sandwich, I can tell you from my own experience. Prosecutors technically only have to show there's probable cause that a crime was committed. Of course, at a jury trial, you have to prove a much higher burden beyond a reasonable doubt. Also, in a grand jury, prosecutors only need to get a majority of grand jurors to vote for them. Whereas, of course, at a jury trial, you need all of the jurors. So, it is a low bar.

However, in this case, important to keep in mind, perjury cases are notoriously difficult for prosecutors. Prosecutors are going to have to show that Jim Comey lied unambiguously, that he did so intentionally, and that the lie was what we call material, meaning that it was relevant to some sort of ongoing issue. So, that's not easy. Grand jurors do sometimes reject charges. It's very rare. But I think there's a higher chance than normal here that a grand jury might reject these charges.

BLITZER: Interesting. Now, President Trump has been posting about this potential case, asking, and I'm quoting him now, what about Comey? And has said he's, quote, "guilty as hell." Could this type of statement work against the prosecution?

HONIG: Oh, for sure. I promise you, prosecutors do not like these posts at all, because what's going to happen, if they do get an indictment of Jim Comey, his lawyers will quickly move to throw the case out, to dismiss the case, based on what we call selective prosecution, meaning I -- this defendant, has been chosen, selected for political or other improper reasons.

Now, people do make that argument quite frequently, and they lose almost all the time, but that's because you don't have it in writing from the president, specifically naming this person. And on top of that, Wolf, let's remember the sequence here, the president got rid of his own former nominee to be this U.S. attorney in Eastern District of Virginia, Erik Siebert, and replaced him just this past weekend with Lindsey Halligan, who has no prior prosecutorial experience, who is a Trump loyalist, and essentially, it seems, was put in place specifically to make this case and other politically driven cases. So, the president is absolutely giving the defense attorneys here some material to work with.

BLITZER: He certainly is. Trump has gone after so many of whom he deems political enemies now, including former close associates like John Bolton, for example, the New York Attorney General Letitia James, Senator Adam Schiff? Is Comey just the latest to be caught up in Trump's what they call his revenge tour?

[10:35:00]

HONIG: Well, I think we have to be cognizant of that. You can't ignore the things Donald Trump has said out loud publicly. When he sends out a Truth Social post naming people by name and demanding that they be indicted, of course, that's part of a pattern. But we also, Wolf, have to be careful here and have to look at each indictment on its own merits. We don't know. It could be that we see an indictment of any of those people, and we say, wow, this looks like really clear proof of guilt or it could be that we see these indictments and they look shaky. I promise you I will come back and give you my frank analysis if and when that happens. So, yes, it's part of an overall pattern, but we also need to consider the specifics of each individual case.

BLITZER: You're absolutely right. Elie Honig, thank you very much for that. Elie's new book is entitled "If You Come at the King: Inside the DOJ's Pursuit of the President from Nixon to Trump." Very important book indeed. Elie, thank you very, very much.

HONIG: Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: And just ahead, a Situation Room special report. A family's only child, a four-year-old little girl, is killed after an airstrike on Gaza. Their emotional story. That's next.

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[10:40:00]

BLITZER: And now, a Situation Room special report. The parents of a four-year-old little girl are now childless after Israeli strikes on Gaza. It's a reminder of the human toll of this conflict. CNN's Jomana Karadsheh shares their story. But we want to warn you, right now, this report contains graphic images that many of our viewers will find very disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): She's my only child. I had her after six years of trying, Nidal (ph) cries. They didn't take their little Noor (ph) out with them, thinking she'd be safer staying here with her grandparents.

They warned saying they were going to strike that building. They didn't say they would hit this one, he says, Nidal and Mervot (ph) were out searching for a place for a tent for any shelter in the south of Gaza when an Israeli strike hit this building in Gaza city, where many displaced, including their family, were sheltering somewhere in this smoldering rubble is their four-year-old Noor.

Noor, my darling daughter, Mervot (ph) screams, holding on to the hope that somehow Noor may have survived this. Please, get her out, she pleads, my daughter is tough. She's smart. No words are enough to comfort parents so distraught. God bless her soul, he tells them. No, no, my soul will be gone with her, Mervot (ph) cries, refusing to accept what is now clear to all those around her.

With their bare hands, they dig, searching for their Noor, the rescuer emerges from the rubble carrying the lifeless body of a little girl. It's Noor (ph), my daughter, my only daughter, Mervot (ph) wales, I love you. I swear I love you. I told the kindergarten I would get them the 50 shekels they asked for. I said that they'll be happy in her final days. But she still refuses to believe her baby girl is gone. She tries to resuscitate her. She's suffocating, she says.

Noor is one of hundreds of victims in Israel's renewed military offensive in Gaza City, one out of a daily death toll that may or may not make headlines on this day, but this one for Nidal, his Noor was his whole world.

Jomana Karadsheh, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: So, heartbreaking indeed. Our special thanks to Jomana for that report. And there are new developments this morning about the war in Gaza. We're learning, for example, that the Trump administration proposed a 21-point peace plan to Arab leaders this week at the U.N. Sources tell CNN the plan led to an exchange of ideas over how to agree on a final proposal.

President Trump's special envoy, Steve Witkoff, expressing confidence there could be, quote, "some sort of breakthrough soon," but not going into detail at all. All of this happening as Israeli tanks move into a multiple neighborhood of Gaza City with journalists in the area reporting heavy shelling and explosions.

Joining us now is Kirsten Fontenrose. She was senior director for Gulf nations over at the National Security Council. Kirsten, thank you so much for joining us. Israel has taken some steps this month to build more settlements in the West Bank at the same time, which many see as a potential prelude, potentially, to full annexation. The Arab leaders want any final peace plan to explicitly prevent that. How significant is what's going on right now?

KIRSTEN FONTENROSE, FORMER SENIOR DIRECTOR FOR THE GULF, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL, NON-RESIDENT SENIOR FELLOW, ATLANTIC COUNCIL AND PRESIDENT, RED SIX SOLUTIONS: Very significant. These Arab leaders feel like this meeting they had with both President Trump and another meeting with Special Envoy Witkoff were instrumental in giving them guarantees about non-annexation. So, the settlement building is a separate issue, but these leaders are very concerned about Israeli action that would take over West Bank properties as well as Gaza and then lead to yet another portfolio that would have to be resolved by conflict resolution and ceasefires.

BLITZER: If Trump tells Netanyahu, don't do it, will Netanyahu accept that advice?

[10:45:00]

FONTENROSE: That's the big question. There's an understanding that the U.S., of course, has some leverage over the Israeli government in terms of assistance provided, both militarily and otherwise, but it is a sovereign government, and Benjamin Netanyahu has his own concerns domestically at home and abroad. And if you look at the polling out of Israel, about 50 percent of the population really does support continuing with military operations and with things like annexation or establishing a State of Israel that they feel like is not surrounded by Palestinian enclaves.

So, it is a live question about whether or not the U.S. can exert that kind of influence when you have a sovereign country that believes this is an existential issue.

BLITZER: The French president, Emmanuel Macron, this week said that President Trump was clear in conversations with him that potential Israeli annexation of the West Bank is a red line for the U.S. and warns that that move would end the Abraham Accords, which the Trump administration in the first term worked out with several Arab countries to establish relations with Israel. How do you see Israel navigating this?

FONTENROSE: Israel believes that it would not put an end to the Abraham Accords. They understand it would be a freeze and potential expansion of them with other Arab states, but they are in conversations with states in other parts of the world, parts of Africa, parts of Southeast Asia, that are still open to conversations about this because there is so much that can be offered in terms of economic growth, military technology transfer, water and food security technologies that these states really need to grow their own economies and benefit their own people. So, those conversations will quietly continue.

Even the Arab countries that have already normalized, while they will have trouble with the public perception in their countries, will likely continue some of the projects they've already begun with Israel through the Abraham Accords, even if there is action like annexation that would be very unwelcome on their streets, because there is quite a bit to gain in terms of their own vision plans and their own plans for their country's growth.

BLITZER: Economic, technological, other gains. Is that what you're talking about?

FONTENROSE: Absolutely.

BLITZER: The plan that Trump proposed this week also included the release of all hostages and a permanent ceasefire, along with a framework for how Gaza could be governed without Hamas. What might that sort of governance look like?

FONTENROSE: Right now, they're talking about establishing an oversight committee that would be international in structure. Think of it as like a board of directors that would help shape the way governance comes to be. It would look at prioritization of reconstruction projects. It would look at ensuring that humanitarian aid is delivered. It would also oversee limits on the mandates of the international security force. But that -- the composition of that oversight committee has not been defined.

So, there are still -- even though there are 21 points, there are a lot of open issues for discussion, conversation, and I think we'll see those shaped in the next few days. The Arab leaders who attended, many of their countries are saying, we're optimistic because we're glad the U.S. is being proactive, and frankly this is one of the only games in town right now. And we're optimistic because we think that if the U.S. is willing to put pressure on the Netanyahu government, we have the best chance yet of seeing a plan that will take shape. And they think that things will happen fairly quickly.

But there's still a lot of questions. What will the timeline for Israeli withdrawal be? What will the limits on the mandate of the international security forces be? Who will be on this oversight committee? So, there's still a lot to be answered. And you'll see, for instance, Erdogan, you'll see Netanyahu weighing in in the meetings they have today and Monday with President Trump.

BLITZER: They've got a big meeting coming up in the next hour over at the White House as well. Do you think Israel will be open to any of the plan's more controversial provisions, in particular the proposal for Israel to gradually withdraw from the entire Gaza Strip?

FONTENROSE: Israel continues to say that it does not want to be an occupier of Gaza or elsewhere. But you do have factions inside Israel who have political leverage, who say this is the chance to ensure that their security guarantees are finalized for eternity. So, that will be quite debated.

I think you're going to see two spoilers to this. You'll see parts of the Israeli government, factions on the extreme hard right, saying we're not open to anything that grants any sort of reward for October 7th. It looks like we are saying to terrorists a good way to achieve your political aims is by attacking civilians. No one wants to grant that.

But you'll also see, I expect Hamas will come back and say, we have given into pressure, we will accept this, but we will make demands that will cross some of America's red lines. For instance, we would like a seat on this oversight committee or, you know, things that will throw these into continuing debate and put off the implementation.

BLITZER: Kirsten Fontenrose, thank you very much for joining us.

FONTENROSE: Pleasure.

BLITZER: Good discussion, appreciate it very much. And coming up at the top of the hour, President Trump is expected to meet with the President of Turkey over at the White House. We'll have some live coverage of that coming up. Stay with us.

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[10:50:00]

BLITZER: Two more home runs for the major league leader, Mariners catcher Cal Raleigh, powering Seattle to the playoffs last night and clinching their division. He also joins an elite group in pro sports, the 60-Home Run Club. CNN Sports Anchor Andy Scholes is joining us now. Andy, a big night for Raleigh. Also, for Seattle, how they're thinking -- now they're thinking, presumably, about the World Series.

ANCHOR ANDY, CNN SPORTS: Yes, Wolf. You know the Mariners, they're the only team in baseball that's never made the World Series. So, is this finally going to be their year? It's certainly starting to feel that way a little bit. But in the first inning last night, Cal Raleigh, he came up to the plate, going yard for his 59th home run of the season. Then in the eighth inning, the entire crowd on their feet, chanting MVP, and Big Dumper gets ahold of another one. This was his 60th of the season.

Raleigh joining Babe Ruth, Roger Maris, and Aaron Judge as the only players to ever hit 60 in the American League. It was a big party in Seattle last night as the Mariners beat the Rockies 9 to 2 to clinch the American League West division for the first time since 2001.

[10:55:00]

Now, Guardians designated hitter David Fry, meanwhile, was released from the hospital yesterday. Tuesday, Fry suffered multiple face and nasal fractures after taking this 99-mile-per-hour fastball from Tigers ace Tarik Skubal right off his face while trying to bunt. Now, the team says Fry is resting comfortably and is expected to make a full recovery, but it's going to take six to eight weeks ending his season. Now, Skubal went to visit Fry while he was in the hospital, which was certainly a classy thing to do.

All right. And finally, what's the correct age to retire at? Well, for Sister Jean, it's 106. The March Madness icon is retiring from her duties at Chicago Loyola due to health concerns. Sister Jean became a viral sensation during the Ramblers Cinderella run in March Madness back in 2018. She's served as the campus minister and chaplain for the men's basketball team since 1991. So, Wolf, we certainly wish her well.

Wolf, are you going to be doing Situation Room when you're 106?

BLITZER: I doubt it. I doubt it very much. But let's see how it goes. Andy Scholes, thank you very, very much. Coming up after the break, President Trump is expected to sign an executive order on TikTok. We're live from the White House with the latest developments. Stay with us. You're in the Situation Room.

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