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Michigan Shooting Investigation; Will Supreme Court Take Up Ghislaine Maxwell Appeal?; Buffalo Bills Undefeated. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired September 29, 2025 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Happening today, the U.S. Supreme Court is set to vote on whether to take up Ghislaine Maxwell's appeal to overturn her federal sex trafficking conviction.

She claims an agreement Jeffrey Epstein made with federal authorities that shielded him from prosecution should have covered her as well. Maxwell is serving 20 years in federal prison.

Joining us now to discuss this and more, CNN's chief U.S. Supreme Court analyst Joan Biskupic and CNN legal analyst Carrie Cordero.

Joan, you first.

This Maxwell appeals case is one of hundreds the justices will be making decisions on very soon. What does that say to you in her appeal and what will we know if the justices take it?

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN CHIEF SUPREME COURT ANALYST: Sure.

In fact, they're meeting right now, Wolf, looking at hundreds and hundreds of petitions were filed over the summer. And when I say that they're reviewing them, I'm using the word reviewing actually quite loosely because they get so many that they only actually discuss around their conference table a handful.

So we're not sure whether they're going to just dismiss her appeal out of hand, the way they do for the vast majority of them, or whether they will grant it. And just to remind viewers of what it involves, the non-prosecution agreement will test whether it applies to just the Florida district where Jeffrey Epstein was at the time or all of the country because Ghislaine Maxwell was actually prosecuted in New York.

And in terms of timing, we could know as soon as the end of this week or we could know in a couple different weeks, because the justices often will stagger the results of their conference hearing today.

BLITZER: Yes, good point. Carrie, how do you see the strength of Ghislaine Maxwell's case right

now and how do you expect the justices to rule?

CARRIE CORDERO, CNN LEGAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: You know, she has a non-frivolous argument when it comes to her claim that the non-prosecution agreement should have covered her. That's because, as Joan was saying, she was prosecuted in a different district.

The government is arguing that the use of the words United States in the non-prosecution agreement was what she could -- how she was able to be prosecuted, and the Southern District of Florida was saying that it covered anything. And what actually happened was that she was prosecuted, even though the government says that the Southern District of Florida was the one making the case against her.

So she has an argument that other circuits have disagreed about. And so, in this particular case, there's what's called the circuit split. And so it's possible that the court will take it up. But there are some unusual circumstances about her particular case, in the fact that she wasn't actually a party to the agreement herself.

BLITZER: We will see how the Supreme Court decides to deal with this.

Joan, on another sensitive issue, the court is considering a major Trump appeal related to its executive order that would end what's called birthright citizenship here in the United States. If you're born in the United States, you're a citizen.

What is the administration arguing? And when will the justices say whether they will actually take this case?

BISKUPIC: Right. This is a much bigger deal. And the government's petitions were officially filed today. We got them on Friday just showing they're laying out their case.

Now, as some of our viewers will remember, there was a first chapter to this earlier this year, when the justices -- when the Trump administration appealed all these lower court orders against President Trump's effort to end birthright citizenship. That's the idea that anyone born here, irrespective of the lawful status of their parents, automatically become U.S. citizens.

But the justices in their first chapter on this just looked at lower court's method of blocking it. This time, they're going to look at the complete merits. That's what the Trump Justice Department would like them to do, to say, is it constitutional? Would it still comport to the 14th Amendment that I think we even have those words there that says that everyone born in the U.S. is automatically a citizen?

Could it still be constitutional for President Trump to exclude people who are here on temporary visas or who are here without proper papers? And that would include, as Carrie knows and you know, Wolf, people who might be here on student visas who happen to become pregnant and have a baby here, they would suddenly be excluded.

And I think this is one that the justices will definitely take up. There's going to be a series of briefings. So I guess what we would estimate is that a case would be argued in early 2026, with a decision by the end of June of 2026. And this is the most controversial of the multitude of executive orders that Donald Trump has issued so far.

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BLITZER: This would be a major, major decision if they agree to overturn birthright citizenship.

BISKUPIC: Oh, huge, yes.

BLITZER: Carrie, is there any reason to think that the text of the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution is ambiguous -- we just had it up on the screen -- allowing the president to end birthright citizenship?

CORDERO: I mean, we just -- as you said, we just had it up on the screen. The text is pretty clear. This is obviously longstanding.

And so it -- this gives the opportunity for the court to settle this, to the extent that -- it really already was settled, but since the administration has raised it and the president seems intent on pushing this issue through to a resolution on the merits, this will finally give the Supreme Court an opportunity to say hopefully that the text of the 14th Amendment is as we see it.

BLITZER: We will see what they decide to do.

Ladies, thank you very, very much, Joan Biskupic, Carrie Cordero. Appreciate it very much.

And just ahead, we're following other breaking news. Police are swarming right now a vehicle that drove through a barricade at the scene of that deadly church attack in Michigan. We will take you there live.

That's next.

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BLITZER: Right now we're following more breaking news out of Grand Blanc Township in Michigan, where four people were killed Sunday in a church attack.

Police are swarming a vehicle that just drove through a barricade. I want to go live right now to CNN's Leigh Waldman.

She's on the scene for us. What do you know, Leigh? What is happening?

LEIGH WALDMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, just shortly after we spoke to you moments ago, we looked and we saw officers running from what appears to be the command center here, running towards the barricade that's in place there. And you can see that red vehicle that they're still inspecting. We can

see appears to be FBI agents there. We have seen State Police who was there. And we heard officers talking. They said that the man drove through a barricade and there was a gun in the front seat of that car.

Now, we have colleagues who were at a different angle. They got some video as well. And from their video it appears that this is some kind of a long gun in the front seat of that vehicle. Now officers, again, overhearing what they were talking about, they said that they have that man in custody. We believe he is in that police vehicle that's right beside that red vehicle there that you can see, officers still focusing on there.

Now, we did some brief research before talking to you, Wolf, and we know that Michigan does have an open carry law here. You still are required to have a background check in order to purchase a weapon. To have concealed carry, you have to have a specialized license for that.

But we do know at this point that this vehicle attempted to drive through the barricade where officers stopped the man inside and they noticed that gun. I also want to show you Wolf how close we are, if we can, to the church itself. We're just down the street from where this attack happened at this church Sunday morning.

So, obviously this is a heightened security situation. The street is filled with different law enforcement vehicles, and this red vehicle here with a driver inside attempted to make their way down the street here. Obviously, not a lot more information we can bring you, Wolf. We know that man is in custody. We're going to press police for answers. We know there's a press conference happening in a little less than an hour from now.

Hoping to get some answers, clarity on that as well.

BLITZER: Do we know, when that red vehicle went through that barricade, if anyone was injured in the process?

WALDMAN: At this point, Wolf, no, we're not hearing any injuries. We didn't see EMS rushing to the scene here. What we saw was a group of officers, some running from down the street, others running from what appears to be this command center here.

You can see large tractor trailers in place, officers going in and out of that building there, using it as a station point here to conduct their investigation. We just saw those officers running down the street, so we started to run too, trying to get the latest information to bring to all of you.

The situation much calmer now than it was even just 10 minutes ago.

BLITZER: All right, Leigh Waldman, thank you very much for that update. Stay safe over there. We will be in close touch with you.

I want to get some perspective right now, some law enforcement perspective from Jason Alexander -- Jason Armstrong, I should say. He's a former police chief of Ferguson, Missouri. He understands what's going on.

Thanks very much for joining us.

What do you make of this driver that officers just took into custody at the police barricade with some sort of weapon in the front seat?

JASON ARMSTRONG, FORMER FERGUSON, MISSOURI, POLICE CHIEF: Whenever we have a critical incident like what we experienced yesterday, one of our biggest fears in law enforcement is that somebody is going to be inspired to copycat or do something that is similar to get a similar response and reaction from the community.

And so when I hear about this vehicle coming through the barricade, two things come to mind. One, was it a barricade where all traffic was stopped from entering that area or was it a controlled access point where they were allowing some individuals to come in that may live in the area or have a valid reason for needing to enter that area?

And so if it was somebody who was just trying to drive around a barricade that no vehicles were supposed to be allowed in, that sends the signal that this could be somebody that is looking to copycat and to do another incident like what we saw yesterday. It also could be somebody who was in that area for a valid reason, but because law enforcement is going to be on such high alert worried about a similar incident or a copycat that if they saw that weapon inside the vehicle, that's going to trigger a very heavy response from law enforcement in that area.

BLITZER: I know, Jason, you're not involved in this investigation, but what will federal and local authorities, for that matter, be focusing in on?

ARMSTRONG: Any time we see one of these catastrophes happen in our communities, the number one thing that we're trying to find out -- and we know that the community wants these same answers -- is, why did this happen, and what did we know, if anything, before it happened that could have helped us or helped somebody prevent this from happening?

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And that's going to be the number one thing that they're going to try to find out. I know we haven't heard a real motive up to this point. They're going to be looking to see what the motive is, and looking to see whether any points along the trajectory of this individual getting to what he carried out yesterday, that we could have interceded and potentially prevented this from happening, because every community is on edge these days that they're going to be the next one.

And as law enforcement, we're going to be doing everything in our power to prevent it.

BLITZER: Certainly true.

Earlier, just a little while ago, the White House actually called a deadly attack on this church in Michigan an act of evil and also said this about the gunman and listen.

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KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: From what I understand, based on my conversations with the FBI director, all they know right now is this was an individual who hated people of the Mormon faith, and they are trying to understand more about this, how premeditated it was, how much planning went into it, whether he left a note.

All of those questions have yet to be answered, but certainly will be answered by the FBI.

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BLITZER: When you hear that, Jason, what are some of the other questions you have right now that you would like to have answered?

ARMSTRONG: What contributed to this individual's hatred towards the Mormon faith?

And what can we learn from this situation where we see people take the social media and just some of the rhetoric that we see going on in the country right now, where we're living in a time where divisiveness seems to be people's automatic default and the things that they're talking about, to see what we can do to strategize better as law enforcement, how we can help educate the public and the community of ways that they can help us try to combat some of these ills that we're seeing?

Because we know the weapons are out in distribution. And so the weapons are out on the streets. If somebody who wants to do something like this, typically, they're going to have access and the means to be able to get their hands on a weapon to carry it out. And so it has to be a collective response, law enforcement and people in the community looking for ways that we can combat this.

BLITZER: And I want to remind our viewers of some of the most heinous attacks on this nation's houses of worship in recent years. Not long ago, churches, synagogues, mosques were recognized for being sacred and rarely targeted.

But that has clearly changed. Look at the screen. You see what happened at the Church of the Annunciation in Minneapolis recently, two children killed, several others injured. And you go back in October of 2018, the Tree of Life Synagogue in Pittsburgh, 11 Jews fatally shot by a white supremacist as these Jews were praying on a Saturday morning.

And there have been other incidents along those lines. What does all that say to you?

ARMSTRONG: That we're in a terrible place in society, where people feel as though this is what they need to do or what they should do to get the attention that they're trying to get, to send a message that they want to send or stoke the fear in communities that they want to stoke.

And we have to do just really some self-reflection as where we -- to where we are as a nation when we see that our most sacred places now are becoming these locations that people have to go and fear, where they should be going there just to be in peace.

BLITZER: Do churches, synagogues and mosques across the country now, Jason, need to beef up security?

ARMSTRONG: Absolutely, they do.

I just got a call recently this week from a church that wants me to come in. They want to talk about their security measures. And that was before this incident happened just coming on the heels of some of the other incidents that we have seen, like what we saw in Minneapolis a short time ago.

And so that's one of the things that we're encouraging. All of these houses of faith that we now see are a target for individuals who want to carry out this type of activity, they all need to be on alert and they all need to be implementing safety plans to make sure that they're doing everything in their power to protect the people that are coming there.

BLITZER: Yes, it's awful to think about what's happening in our country right now.

All right, Jason Armstrong, thank you very much for your expertise.

And we will be right back.

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BLITZER: Another big weekend wind for the greatest team, in my opinion, of the NFL.

The Bills quarterback, Josh Allen, also known as the big beautiful Bill, powering Buffalo to a win in a very tight game against the New Orleans Saints. I was nervous throughout the game.

CNN's own former Buffalo Bill, Coy Wire, another big beautiful Bill, is here with us right now.

Coy, what about those Bills?

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Yes, it's a good day when Wolf makes you snort laughing. Good to see you, Wolf.

Bills just one of two teams to remain unbeaten alongside those Super Bowl champions, Philadelphia Eagles. The winless Saints, as Wolf mentioned, kept this close, down by just two midway through the fourth, but that's when Josh Allen took over. Look at this run, 6'5'' five running like a scatback, making D.B.s look silly. Someone get that man a jockstrap. Then, Wolf, a little later, you know your big beautiful Bill passed.

Allen finding Dalton Kincaid for the 28-yard score, two passing touchdowns, one rushing for Josh, as Buffalo pulls away 31-19, Bills 4-0 for the first time in five years. Next up, they host John Berman's Patriots on "Sunday Night Football."

Now, in the prime-time matchup last night, a huge return for Micah Parsons, playing his former team, the Dallas Cowboys. He still has his season suite in Arlington. He said his mom invited everybody. There she was wearing Parsons Packers' jersey field level. The game was dynamite. Let's go to the fourth, where the Packers take the lead with just 1:45 to go, Jordan Love to Romeo Doubs.

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All three Packers touchdown passes came via Love to Romeo. But the Cowboys and Dak Prescott swiftly strike back, 62 seconds later, Dak with his third touchdown pass of the game going to Pickens for his second T.D. catch.

It went to overtime. And that's where Prescott thought he was about to score a touchdown until, look who has their Micah drop, Parsons sacking his former teammate, saving his new team from a loss, both teams settling for field goals. So it finished in the second highest- scoring tie ball game in NFL history, 40-40.

Here's Prescott on facing his friend Micah Parsons.

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DAK PRESCOTT, DALLAS COWBOYS: I don't think he got me. I don't think he sacked me. Got me one from behind right there in overtime as I got past the line of scrimmage.

QUESTION: They said that was a sack.

PRESCOTT: No way.

QUESTION: They recorded that a sack.

PRESCOTT: That's all right. That's all right. There he is right there. That's all right. He can have it. He can have it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WIRE: All right, great game, great action.

We have two Monday night games tonight, Wolf. And now our Buffalo Bills are the favorites to win it all. So will those Bills be facing the Lions, the Packers? We will see who they're going to face in the Super Bowl in Santa Clara.

BLITZER: Next Sunday night, they face the New England Patriots. So we will see how that goes. I take every game one by one by one. I have been a Buffalo Bills fan for a long time. I know what it's like.

All right, Coy, thank you very, very much.

And, to our viewers, thanks very much for joining us this morning. You can always keep up with us on social media @WolfBlitzer and @PamelaBrownCNN. We will see you back here tomorrow morning, every weekday morning, 10:00 a.m. Eastern.

"INSIDE POLITICS WITH DANA BASH" is coming up next right after a short break.