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The Situation Room

Interview With Chicago, Illinois, Mayor Brandon Johnson; President Trump to Announce New Deal on Prescription Drugs; Interview With Rep. Debbie Dingell (D-MI); Government Shutdown Imminent?. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired September 30, 2025 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:01]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: We certainly will.

And we want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer with Pamela Brown, and you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BLITZER: And we begin this hour with the breaking news. The federal government is careening towards a government shutdown if Congress can't reach an agreement that President Trump supports before midnight tonight.

All signs indicate that a deal is nowhere in sight, at least right now. And just moments ago, the House minority leader, Hakeem Jeffries, had this message to Republicans. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): House Democrats are here on duty, fighting on behalf of the American people, ready to fund the government in a way that lifts up their quality of life. House Democrats are on duty. House Republicans are on vacation. Shame on them for being on vacation all across the country and across the world on the eve of a government shutdown.

We're on duty. They're on vacation. They're on vacation because they'd rather shut the government down than protect the health care of the American people. That's unfathomable. That's unacceptable. That's unconscionable. And that's un-American.

Do your job.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: President Trump, for his part, is blaming Democrats.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: If there's a shutdown, how many federal workers do you plan to lay off?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, we made do a lot, and that's only because of the Democrats. And, as you know, they wanted to be able to take care of people that have come into our country illegally. And no system can handle that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: The brewing shutdown could be like none before it as Washington struggles over presidential power and how the government spends your money.

CNN chief congressional correspondent Manu Raju is on Capitol Hill.

Manu, what are you hearing?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Things are very dire right now, and the real expectation pretty much about from everyone here that we are going to experience the first federal government shutdown since 2018 into 2019.

That one lasted for 35 days. That was the longest in the history of this country, and the impacts of this one could be severe with so many federal workers potentially being either fired or laid off, government services also being dried up at least temporarily. And the question will be how long will it last and what could ultimately get out of it.

The two parties now taking diametrically opposite positions. Republicans are calling for a straight extension of government funding over the next seven weeks. They want no additions to it at all. Democrats are trying to add on changes on health care in particular. They want to reverse the spending cuts that were enacted to the Medicaid program under Donald Trump's One Big Beautiful Bill Act.

They also want to extend expiring subsidies over the Obamacare -- those subsidies set to expire at years then. They want to constrain Donald Trump's ability to cut federal spending without the consent of Congress. None of those will fly with Republicans in the Republican- controlled Senate.

And the Republicans plan to put on the floor today that seven-week stopgap bill through November 21 with no strings attached. The question at this moment, will any Democrats break ranks? There will need to be at least seven, probably eight Democrats who will be needed to advance legislation, advance that bill on the floor of the Senate today.

I had a chance to ask some of those swing Democratic senators, those ones who voted for a similar stopgap bill in March that extended government funding through the end of September, whether they would vote for this plan. One of those senators, John Fetterman, said he's a yes.

Others would not say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN (D-PA): If you really want to fundamentally change policies, win elections. And then you have the ability to do those things. I mean, isn't that fundamental, the truth?

RAJU: Right now, are Democrats overreaching?

FETTERMAN: I think it's a noble outcome with the wrong way. I do -- again, this is, why can't -- I mean, I agree that it takes the tax credits, but what they're willing to do, I'm not going to vote to shut the government down. It's wrong. More chaos is the last thing our nation needs.

RAJU: You voted for the C.R. back in March? Why not vote for this one?

SEN. GARY PETERS (D-MI): Well, you will see what I do in a little bit.

RAJU: You voted for the march C.R. Are you going to vote for this one?

(CROSSTALK)

SEN. MAGGIE HASSAN (D-NH): ... the committee.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Now, Senate Republican leaders hope that senators like Maggie Hassan, Gary Peters and others who voted for that plan back in March will do the same in September right now, on September 3, on the eve of this deadline.

[11:05:06]

If they do not, if this government does shut down, expect the Republican leadership to put that bill on the floor time and time again and try to get those Democrats to buckle under pressure as the government is shut down. The question, though, Wolf, is will they stand with the Democratic leadership, who say it's time to reverse those health care cuts, who are worried about the impact on people's insurance premiums and say that needs to be acted upon now?

The question is, can they maintain that unity at this perilous time for the country, Wolf?

BLITZER: Yes, it's a huge, huge moment right now, and we will watch it very, very closely.

Manu Raju, thank you very much.

BROWN: Thank you so much, Manu. We appreciate it.

And joining us now is Democratic Congresswoman Debbie Dingell of Michigan. She is the chair of the House Democratic Policy and Communications Committee.

Congresswoman, good to see you.

Is it a foregone conclusion at this point that the government will shut down? And if so, how long do you think it would happen?

REP. DEBBIE DINGELL (D-MI): Pam, it's good to be with you. And nothing's foregone. We have a few more hours. Democratic leadership has made it clear that they're ready and willing to sit at a table and talk and compromise.

I mean, do you realize that yesterday was the very first meeting that President Trump has had with the Democratic leader in the Senate and the House? You have got to be willing to talk. And there are very serious issues that have no time related to them.

So anything's possible. This is Washington, D.C., under President Trump. So if they come to the table and talk, anything's possible. But they have not been very willing to have bipartisan discussions.

BROWN: What specifically do Democrats need from the White House and Republicans to keep the government open?

DINGELL: Look, I think people have been very clear. I think that, even in that report, they're probably more expansive -- it's more expansive than what people really want.

Let me be clear on one issue. We are fighting for the health care of the American people. October 1, which is tomorrow, which is when the new budget would begin or expires, insurance rates are going to go out to people on the Affordable Care Act. The exchange opens on November 1, and the tax credits expire at the end of December.

We have already seriously hurt and had an impact with the Medicaid cuts of the big, I'm not using the word on television of what I think of it, bill. I have hospitals in my state and hospitals across the country are close to closing because of what that happened.

Now, I'm going to take a couple in my district, 60 years old, both of them. If we don't expand their affordable tax credits, they make $82,000 between the two of them, their health insurance is going to go up $11,250, a 165 percent increase.

We are talking about millions of Americans and their ability to buy health insurance. That's worth fighting for. And I know that the Republicans who think so too. But if we don't do it now, it's not going to happen. And we need guardrails so that what we do pass actually gets spent, because we have seen this president do pocket, whatever you want to call them in executive orders that have taken money that has been appropriated from school lunches, from veterans, from law enforcement.

So they're things that are really worth fighting for.

BROWN: So let me just follow up with you, because you're making it clear it's a health care subsidy that is a huge sticking point here. Former Republican House Speaker Newt Gingrich wrote in this opinion

piece that -- quote -- "If Americans wanted Democrats' prescription for health care, their party's favorability rating wouldn't be languishing at around 30 percent. And less than a year ago, they wouldn't have handled -- handed control of the executive and legislative branches of government to Republicans."

What is your response to that?

DINGELL: Look, I'm going to say to Gingrich, who is a friend, and we have had many intense discussions, but there are a whole lot of people -- did Democrats do a great job at messaging? Were we talking about these issues the way we should have? Was I telling people last year that we had problems?

You know I was, just like I did in 2016. But a lot of people -- I have been in those union halls, I'm talking to people who are really being hurt. I go in the hospitals. I go to the community health centers. And people that voted the way they did last year did not know what was going to happen to them, affordability on -- he promised to lower -- President Trump promised to lower costs on food, on health care, on housing, energy.

He was going to reduce costs on energy by 50 percent. They have all gone up. And health care is one of the most important things to every American. When you're sick, you need to be able to go to the doctor and afford your medicine.

BROWN: I want to play what one Democratic senator, John Fetterman, told my colleague Manu Raju. We heard a little bit of what he said earlier. This is an extension of that. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN (D-PA): Right now, it's like you're running the risk of plunging our nation into chaos. Millions and millions of lives will be upended. The president has a lot of levers he could pull.

[11:10:04]

This is one we could pull, but why would we pull that lever? Because that allows him to pull a lot more levers. I think that would be the ideal outcome for Project 2025.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So do you have any concerns that the president could use a shutdown to assume more control over the federal government and perhaps enact elements of his agenda that Democrats oppose? Could this backfire for you?

DINGELL: I'm going to say several things. One, I'm already watching a country in chaos. And people are tired and worn down and they don't know what to fight.

And I think the American people want to see us fight for them. When he threatens to fire federal employees, he has fired hundreds of thousands of federal employees all year. That's what we have been watching. At some point, we have got to stand up and say, it's enough.

The American people want us to fight, to reduce costs to them, to make sure that they can get access to health care. Republicans have, like in the past, threatened these shutdowns, say this is the time to do it. I don't think that there's a more important issue for the people of America that when you are sick, you need to be able to get the medical care that you need, be able to afford your medicine.

We are in a crisis. There is no question. And I have always believed, spent my life fighting for access to health care for all.

BROWN: All right, Congresswoman Debbie Dingell, thank you so much.

DINGELL: Thank you.

BROWN: Wolf.

BLITZER: Historically, a government shutdown has had a bigger impact on politics than on the economy. But this time it could be, could be very different.

BROWN: That's right.

CNN senior reporter Matt Egan is here.

So, Matt, explain to our viewers, why is this shutdown -- why could it be different than previous ones?

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well, Wolf and Pamela, the stakes just seem so much higher this time around, in part because the economy, it looks more vulnerable than in prior government shutdown, especially the job market.

But it's also the fact that the Trump administration really raised the stakes with that unusual threat last week to carry out mass layoffs of federal workers in a shutdown. Now, keep in mind, the government is already rapidly shrinking its work force. The number of federal government employees is down by 97,000 just since the end of January.

And that doesn't even count workers who took buyouts, but are still on the payroll at least until tomorrow. Now, it's possible that mass layoff threat is just a negotiating tactic. But economists say if it actually happened, it could do real damage to the economy because it would be contributing to an already rising unemployment rate.

And former Biden economist Jared Bernstein, he told me that it's not just bad economics. He said it's profoundly unfair to federal workers. He said this is running over innocent bystanders. It's not their fault you just -- you can't keep the lights on.

Now, a shutdown would also leave investors and policymakers in the dark when it comes to the state of the U.S. economy. That's because key economic reports that are scheduled for release, some of them will not come out if there's a government shutdown, including the all- important monthly jobs report that the Bureau of Labor Statistics was scheduled to release on Friday, but that won't come out if there's a government shutdown.

Also there's a pair of inflation reports due out in the next two weeks. That -- those reports are also in doubt if there's a prolonged government shutdown. And so that means that Federal Reserve officials meeting at the end of the month, they could be flying blind when they're trying to decide whether or not to lower interest rates.

Now, because there may not be a job report on Friday, there's been more attention paid through new data out this morning on the state of the labor market. This data shows that the number of job openings, it ticked higher during the month of August, but it does remain low, much lower than it was at this point of the calendar in previous years, a lot of bosses that just seem uncertain right now.

They're apprehensive to hire, and it's hard to see how a prolonged government shutdown would help matters -- back to you.

BLITZER: All right, Matt Egan reporting for us.

Matt, thank you very much.

And we will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:19:04]

BLITZER: All right, there's more breaking news we're following right now. All eyes are on the White House. President Trump is set to speak from the Oval Office at any minute now.

BROWN: We're expecting an announcement from the president about drug prices. And all of this is happening as the government heads towards a shutdown if the White House and Congress failed to reach an agreement before midnight.

So let's bring in CNN senior White House correspondent Kristen Holmes.

Kristen, you have got some new reporting. The president is expected to announce this deal with Pfizer, right?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

And so this is part of his most favored nation initiative to try and lower drug prices in the U.S. He started this in his first term, hit a lot of legal roadblocks, but he has started pushing these drug companies again. So, today, we're expecting a couple of things.

One, we don't know all the details, but we do know that Pfizer has agreed to lower at least some drug prices in the United States as part of this pressure campaign from the president. We're also told that they're going to announce something that they're calling TrumpRx, which is essentially a direct-to-consumer purchasing of prescriptions.

[11:20:04]

Now, again, we still don't know what's going to actually be part of that, what drugs would be part of that, if it is covered by insurance, or if this is a cash payment, that kind of thing. We know that part of what they have been hoping to do was make sure that any of these drugs would be covered by insurance, by Medicaid.

Again, that should be part of this announcement, at least with the Pfizer part of this. But Pfizer is the first CEO, the first company to agree to this. We do expect others to follow suit. Again, President Trump has really been putting the screws to these drug companies.

BLITZER: Kristen Holmes, thank you very, very much.

I want to go right now to see CNN medical correspondent Meg Tirrell.

Meg, is this expected to have a major impact on patients right now?

MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Wolf, I think it really depends on the scope of what Pfizer is offering, and also the scope of how many other companies step in to make deals.

Right now, we are seeing at least the reaction from Wall Street seems to be relief. You're seeing stocks of companies like Pfizer higher on the reported details that folks have seen so far, which suggests that they don't believe this is going to be tremendously painful to the pharmaceutical companies.

Maybe this is a way for them to offer something, but not something that really hurts their businesses and takes some of the pressure that they have been feeling from President Trump on drug prices off of them. But, again, we still need to see exactly what the details here are.

But we know that drug prices are a major problem for a lot of Americans. One in five U.S. adults has reported skipping prescriptions because they couldn't afford or because the cost was too high to fill their prescriptions, so that's a huge problem.

In terms of this TrumpRx idea that Kristen just mentioned and this sort of direct-to-consumer idea, this is something that we have been starting to see increasingly recently. And one of the first classes of drugs to really try something like this was these obesity medications, things like Zepbound, in the same class as Ozempic.

And, there, you do see lower prices that are offered by these drugmakers, Eli Lilly in particular, where you can do a cash payment and sort of get this directly from the drug company, avoiding the middlemen, insurance companies, pharmacy benefits managers.

But just to give you a sense of the cost differential there, there, you would be paying $349 out of pocket for Zepbound at the lowest dose, whereas the list price is $1,000 a month, so that's obviously a lot more, but if folks have insurance that covers, that can take that down for them. So that's still a pretty pricey drug expenditure out of pocket for something like that. And, again, we don't know exactly how this will play out when done

with Pfizer drugs or all drugs.

BLITZER: A hugely important issue, though, for so many millions and millions of people out there who are watching.

Meg Tirrell, thank you very, very much.

Up next: federal immigration raids in Chicago, as the Department of Defense prepares to deploy 100 U.S. military troops to Illinois. The mayor of Chicago is standing by to join us live. We will discuss the Trump administration's plans.

That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:27:47]

BLITZER: Happening now: The Trump administration is preparing to deploy 100 military troops to Illinois.

Governor J.B. Pritzker says Homeland Security wants them to protect ICE personnel and facilities in the state. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(CHANTING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: This was the scene over the weekend outside an immigration facility near Chicago. ICE agents later deployed tear gas and pepper balls to disperse the protesters. Demonstrations continued all weekend and several of the protesters were detained. Four now face federal charges. One allegedly threatened, threatened to kill an ICE agent.

Meanwhile, Governor Pritzker of Illinois says ramping up federal law enforcement in Illinois is not making it safer.

Joining us now, the Chicago mayor, Brandon Johnson.

Mayor, thanks so much for joining us.

First of all, do you know when these troops, these U.S. troops, are arriving or where they will be stationed?

BRANDON JOHNSON (D), MAYOR OF CHICAGO, ILLINOIS: Well, the federal government and the Trump administration has not been in communications with me, with my local law enforcement.

What we are seeing from this president is an absolute rejection of our Constitution. There is no one in the city of Chicago or cities across America that are calling for the militarized occupation of our cities. This is not about safety. This is not about immigration. This is about fomenting chaos and terrorizing the people of Chicago and cities across America.

And, as the mayor of the city of Chicago, we vehemently oppose and reject what this administration has promulgated against the American people.

BLITZER: Mayor, we are learning about an overnight targeted immigration enforcement operation in the South Shore neighborhood. Can you tell us anything more about that operation?

JOHNSON: What we simply know is that you have masked men with large weapons that are simply disappearing people from their homes.

We're talking about children being stripped away from their parents. We're talking about workers that are being targeted. Just this last weekend, we had two public schoolteachers detained by ICE.