Return to Transcripts main page

The Situation Room

How Trump's Policies Are Impacting Women's Health; Memphis Crackdown; Interview With Former U.S. Education Secretary Arne Duncan. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired October 01, 2025 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:31:06]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: After President Trump's vows to dismantle the U.S. Department of Education, the agency is now bracing for the impact of this current government shutdown. A small fraction of its employees are being required to continue working, with nearly 90 percent being furloughed.

I want to discuss that and more with the former Education Secretary under President Obama Arne Duncan.

Secretary Duncan, thanks so much for joining us.

The president, as you know, is threatening to use this current shutdown as an opportunity to fire even more federal workers, including over the Department of Education. What impact is this likely to have on the Education Department and the impact on kids out there who need to have a good education?

ARNE DUNCAN, FORMER U.S. EDUCATION SECRETARY: Well, Trump has done everything he can to attack education, dismantle education, attack higher education.

So this is just another excuse to do that. And, unfortunately, the dismantling of education actually started when he selected Linda McMahon to be his education secretary. She went to an education technology conference and started talking about A-1. No one knew what she was talking about.

She meant A.I. But she's that incredibly ignorant of the most massive change that has ever happened. And what's so sad to me, Wolf, is education should be the ultimate bipartisan or nonpartisan issue. There's nothing left or right or a Republican, Democrat.

More babies getting off to a good start in pre-K, raising reading scores, which are horrific, increasing high school graduation rates, more young people going on to college, those are nation-building goals. But in this administration, there are no education goals. There are no strategies to achieve them. There are no metrics to measure them. And there's no accountability. There's no public transparency.

So, it's just an incredibly disheartening time for our country and for our nation's children.

BLITZER: So what are your biggest concerns, Secretary Duncan, right now, as this shutdown potentially drags on?

DUNCAN: Well, obviously, it impacts people across the country. Left, right, red states, blue states, it doesn't matter. Having that work force disappear, having folks who have been living check to check no longer receive those checks, that stress on American families, that stress on children is extraordinary.

And so there's no upside for America in this. And the fact that we're fighting to keep health care is just mind-boggling to me. As you well know, everyone fighting to strip Americans of health care, every single one in Congress who is fighting for that, they and their families and everyone they love have access to health care.

There is no one who does not have health care who's fighting to take it away. And so the lack of honesty, the disingenuousness of this is just staggering. And, to be clear, obviously, Democrats are fighting for the health care of everybody. It doesn't matter who they are, who they vote for, where they live. That's what's at stake here.

BLITZER: And, as you know, right now, thousands and thousands of young people here in the United States are preparing to apply for financial aid to go to college. There are also millions who are making student loan payments.

How will they all be impacted by this government shutdown?

DUNCAN: Well, we will see. But Trump and his administration have been very clear they want to see fewer people have access to higher education. They are actively attacking the institution of higher education, just as they're attacking the free press, just as they're attacking the media, just as they're attacking judges.

And it's all part of an authoritarian leader's playbook. When people can think independently, when people can think critically, when they go to college, when they have those skills, they're not going to listen to one source of truth.

And so this is just another excuse, another opportunity for Trump and his team to make it much harder for folks to go to college and, again, does a tremendous, tremendous disservice to our country. Higher education has been the goose that has laid the golden egg for decades here in America. And all the jobs, all the innovation, all the creativity coming out of higher education, they are taking that on in a full frontal assault.

[11:35:04]

BLITZER: Secretary Duncan, thanks so much for joining us.

DUNCAN: Thanks so much for having me. BLITZER: Pamela.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: All right, just ahead, we're going to take you live to Memphis. Hundreds of federal law enforcement officers are there setting up shop as part of President Trump's crime crackdown.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: There's breaking news we're following right now, important news.

The U.S. Supreme Court has agreed to hear arguments on whether President Trump can temporarily fire Lisa Cook from the Federal Reserve. Cook can stay in her job for now as the High Court deferred a decision on Trump's request to remove her immediately.

[11:40:01]

The court will hear arguments on the case in January. Trump fired Cook back in August after a member of his administration alleged that she had committed mortgage fraud. Cook called those claims manufactured.

In response to the Supreme Court agreeing to hear arguments, the White House says it looks forward to ultimate victory, their words, ultimate victory -- Pamela.

BROWN: And some more breaking news, Wolf.

Hundreds of federal law enforcement officers have been deployed to Memphis. This is the latest city the Trump administration has focused in on, as part of what the president says is a crackdown on crime.

Memphis Mayor Paul Young spoke with residents last night about what to expect from his surge in federal troops in the city streets.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL YOUNG (D), MAYOR OF MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE: I think we're still working through how they're going to fold into some of the things that are working within MPD. And so we do have every reason to believe that they're going to be collaborative and work with our police department.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: I want to bring in CNN senior national correspondent Ryan Young. He's on the scene for us in Memphis.

What are you seeing, what are you hearing on the ground over there, Ryan?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Wolf, we wanted to show you some things that are happening right now as we walk you this direction.

This is one of the staging areas for those federal officers to show up here. This here, if you see the large trucks that are in this area, this is where a lot of the command posts are where they send the U.S. Marshals, the FBI agents, the TBI agents out into the field.

One thing that we know for sure, there has been some success in terms of knocking crime down here in Memphis. We have been tracking it all summer. Chief Davis has had some success in getting crime down, but there's been a big conversation about all the sort of violence in terms of aggravated assault and homicide.

Now, if you talk to the police department, they're saying they're seeing five- and six-year lows, but, at the same time, this community is asking for more attention to crime, more resources. The mayor and police chiefs say that themselves. They want more resources. They want to see how they can fold in all this extra equipment into what they're already doing and having success with.

But, at the same time, you understand why people in this community, after watching what happened in D.C., they're quite concerned about how this will impact especially the young men in this community with all the extra federal resources.

In fact, take a listen to the mayor and what he had to say about this action that's starting to take place right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

P. YOUNG: I think we're still working through how they're going to fold into some of the things that are working within MPD. And so we do have every reason to believe that they're going to be collaborative and work with our police department.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

R. YOUNG: Yes, one of the things we should mention, this is one of the highest crime rates in the country, with Memphis experiencing the crime that they have.

But they're thinking they're knocking someone this crime down with some five- and six-year crime lows. One other thing I will mention, we have talked to folks in the community who once again say they want to see more resources, but what they're concerned about is how this will actually work when it gets into the community.

Wolf, we're just on the ground and tracking this now. We will bring you more later on.

BLITZER: All right, Ryan, we will stay in close touch with you.

Ryan Young on the scene for us, thank you very, very much -- Pamela.

BROWN: All right, and coming up, Wolf, a SITUATION ROOM special report. We're going to ask a panel of experts about how the Trump administration's recent moves could impact women's health.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:47:24] BROWN: With the federal government shut down right now, a special supplemental nutrition program called WIC that serves low-income pregnant and postpartum women, infants and children, could run out of money soon if there is no deal.

It is just the latest dilemma for women during President Trump's second term. The administration recently linked Tylenol use in pregnancy and autism in kids, despite years of evidence that the drug is safe when used appropriately. And the president's health agency is reviewing mifepristone used in medication abortion. The FDA has stated for many years the drug is safe and effective.

Joining us now are Katie Watson, a professor of medical social sciences at Northwestern University, and Dr. Caitlin Bernard, an obstetrician and gynecologist.

Nice to see both of you.

So, Katie, let's just start big picture. How do you see women's health being impacted right now?

KATIE WATSON, MEDICAL ETHICIST, NORTHWESTERN UNIVERSITY: Well, I think the key to informed decision-making is accurate information. And the problem is, we have an administration that's trying to capture every communicative channel in the country.

We have seen that with the arts, the Kennedy Center, talk shows. We have seen that with universities trying to control academic discourse. And now we see an administration that's trying to capture the scientific discourse and distort it to harm women's health.

So we are concerned about women's health. We're here to talk about that today. But I think what we're really talking about is scientific capture, using this federal platform to feed mis- and dis-information to American women.

BROWN: Just to follow up with you, you say they're trying to distort it to harm women's health. What do you mean specifically by that?

WATSON: Well, let's take the mifepristone example.

Mifepristone has been -- was approved by the FDA 25 years ago. There are an incredible number of studies showing its safety over five million users. And so we have all the data we need. The reason the administration is looking for new -- quote, unquote -- "information" about mifepristone is that medication abortion is essential to abortion access.

So this administration knows a federal ban on abortion would be very unpopular, but everyone's for safety, right? So they're using safety as a Trojan force to try to reduce access to abortion care. About 25 percent of all U.S. abortions are done with medication abortion using telemedicine.

And so what they're trying to do is change the rules that were changed in the last few years to allow telemedicine with medication abortion to inhibit people's right to travel.

[11:50:00]

BROWN: OK, so let me bring you into this, Dr. Bernard, because look, the administration has said it wants to do these reviews of mifepristone, certain vaccines, that kind of thing.

The medical community has been wrong in the past. For example, as you well know, women were told for years, don't take estrogen in menopause because it could cause breast cancer. That guidance has changed. Parents were told not to give their kids peanuts before age 3, and then peanut allergies exploded. Now that guidance is to start as early as 4 to 6 months.

So, given that, what do you say to people who argue there's no harm in reevaluating the science?

DR. CAITLIN BERNARD, OBSTETRICIAN-GYNECOLOGIST: Well, I think that that is true in general.

It is OK to learn more, to grow the evidence as much as we can through scientific research. But, unfortunately, instead of that, what we have really seen through this process is that people in this administration with no medical research degrees, no experience or education on interpreting that research are (AUDIO GAP) inaccurate conclusions.

And it really has come out that those are really based on their own biased ideology and not on what the evidence has really shown. And to go further, they're making dangerous medical recommendations that are the opposite of any of our evidence-based medical guidelines. And these actions put women at risk.

BROWN: All right. I want to just -- unfortunately, your connection is not great.

Katie, how do you respond to the hat question?

WATSON: Well, I agree with Dr. Bernard.

I think that this -- the irony that this is an administration that has cut billions of dollars from independent academic medical research in the United States, and then is turning around and saying, oh, research is important, but only when we do it, when partisan entities do it for our ideological, preordained conclusions.

And so it's, again, a false argument to say that, oh, we just want more information. The issue is that this administration is not happy with the information that we have and what's being proposed isn't independent contribution to that evidence base.

BROWN: All right, and just to follow up with you, because we were just talking about how the government is shut down now, and there's a lot of concern about how it's going to impact the everyday American.

It may not be felt immediately, but when it comes to, example, for the WIC program, this is something that serves women, children who are -- women who are postpartum, who are pregnant. I'm wondering, Katie, what your concern is there.

WATSON: Well, of course, the access of impoverished individuals to nutrition and health care is essential any time. And then, when a person is pregnant or in the early stages of parenting, it becomes essential for both mother and baby.

And so any reduction in that, restriction of that or freezing of that would have devastating health consequences. And I think, again, if we go big picture, to think about the irony and hypocrisy of promoting an anti-abortion agenda, trying to reduce access to abortion care under the claim of caring about children, and then to cut food programs for infants and pregnant people would be the ultimate hypocrisy.

BROWN: I want to bring in Nancy Northup, the president of the Center for Reproductive Rights.

Nancy, I know we were trying to establish your link as well. Glad that you can join this conversation.

I want to talk about the announcement that we heard from President Trump around a week ago when he made waves when he linked Tylenol in pregnancy to autism in children. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Tylenol during pregnancy can be associated with a very increased risk of autism. So taking Tylenol is not good. All right, I will say it. It's not good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So I'm wondering, now that we have had some time to process this, because we cover the news right when it happens, now it's been a little bit over the week, what are you seeing?

How do you think this has played out for pregnant women or women who have kids who are autistic?

NANCY NORTHUP, PRESIDENT, CENTER FOR REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS: Well, I think the through line here is that the Trump administration is ignoring science when it comes to any kind of medications that are related to women's health.

And so, hopefully, the American public is not paying attention to the Trump administration, but to their doctors, when it comes to what they need to be doing during pregnancy. And I just want to say the other area that we should be very concerned about is the Trump administration's attack on medication abortion, which has been a lifeline in this post-Roe America, where 63 percent of abortions are through medication abortion.

[11:55:00]

And it is safe and effective. It's been over 25 years of safe and effective use in the United States, even more worldwide. Millions have had access to it. And it is a goal of the Trump administration to take this away again on biased science, junk science.

And that's what everyone needs to pay attention to, because this is not just about states where abortion is banned. Despite promises elsewhere, this is about coming after access to medication or abortion in states that allow abortion care, if that's their policy in the state to support women's health.

BROWN: All right, Nancy Northup, Caitlin Bernard, and Katie Watson -- Dr. Bernard, I should say -- thank you all so much.

NORTHUP: Thank you.

WATSON: Thank you.

BERNARD: Thank you.

BLITZER: Very good discussion. Thanks for doing that.

And, to our viewers, thanks very much for joining us this morning.

The Jewish holy day of Yom Kippur begins tonight at sundown. And I hope all our Jewish viewers have an easy fast tomorrow.

BROWN: Good luck with your fast tomorrow, Wolf.

BLITZER: Thanks.

BROWN: "INSIDE POLITICS WITH DANA BASH" is right after a short break.