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The Situation Room

Interview With Memphis, Tennessee, City Council Chairman J. Ford Canale; Trump Targets 'Democratic Agencies' For Firings During Shutdown; Deadly Synagogue Attack in U.K.; Delta Planes Collide on Tarmac. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired October 02, 2025 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Happening now, breaking news: U.K. police are ramping up security across the country after a deadly synagogue ramming and stabbing attack, that assault coming on the Jewish holy day of Yom Kippur.

And, in Memphis, hundreds of federal law enforcement officers fanning out through the streets as President Trump targets the city as part of what he says is his crackdown on crime.

And as the government shutdown drags on, there is growing concern about what it will mean for vital federal programs that millions of mothers and children rely on every month.

Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Pamela Brown. Wolf Blitzer has the day off, and you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BROWN: And we begin this hour with that breaking news, a deadly attack on a synagogue in England. U.K. authorities say two people were killed after a suspect rammed the car into a crowd and stabbed a man on the Jewish faith's holiest day, Yom Kippur. At least four others were seriously injured.

Officials are now treating this incident as terrorism. The suspect is dead, but police say two more people have been arrested in connection with this attack.

The head of the U.K. Counterterrorism Coordination Committee had this message after the attack:

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LAURENCE TAYLOR, HEAD OF COUNTERTERRORISM COORDINATION COMMITTEE: An attack on our Jewish community today, on Yom Kippur, is devastating. Communities across the U.K. would normally be marking this holy day and are grieving and worried about their safety.

And I want to be clear, U.K. policing is mobilizing, and it's mobilizing fast. Police forces are stepping up patrols across the country at synagogues and Jewish sites and more widely to provide reassurance to all those communities who have been affected by this incident.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: All right, let's go live now to CNN's Nic Robertson. He is on the scene right there in Manchester, England, where this attack happened.

What more are you learning, Nic?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, we have just had a briefing from another police officer, the chief of police in Manchester, and he's given more details about this attack, saying that the attacker appeared to be wearing something that had the appearance of a bomb being strapped to him.

Laurence Taylor, who you just heard we have heard from there, spoke earlier about the police not able to get to the alleged attacker to get more details, not able to do that quickly, even though he's now dead, because of safety concerns, is how he framed it.

Now it appears that there was some kind of device being worn by this alleged attacker. Details yet to be released on that by the police. We have also got more details from the chief of Manchester police about what the attacker did, driving up, ramming people in his car, jumping out, stabbing people, and then apparently trying to get inside the synagogue.

And the chief of Manchester police saying that it was the bravery of the security guards at the mosque themselves and the congregation inside that prevented the attack of getting into the mosque and a potential far more devastating scene.

People we have been talking to here are still trying to get answers or find out what's going on, in part because it's Yom Kippur, in part because this is an orthodox community, in part because people aren't using their mobile phones and are not sort of able to call one another.

My colleague here Ivana (ph) was just talking with a lady who literally walked across communities to get to other members of her family to tell them that they were OK. So this is a community not just in shock, but still trying to communicate and tell loved ones that they're alive.

BROWN: All right, Nic, thank you so much.

And I just want to also note we're seeing this rise in attacks against synagogues and Jewish people, not just where you are, but all around the world. Here in D.C., where I am now, we saw an attack on a young Jewish couple not that long ago. What are officials there in the U.K. saying after this latest incident? What more is going to be done on the security front?

ROBERTSON: The British prime minister has come back from a high-level leaders meeting, European leaders meeting in Copenhagen to chair a Security Cabinet, a COBRA top-level security meeting here with his key security officials.

He is saying that he will put more police out around the Jewish community synagogues, even across the country. Even as we were driving here, we saw outside the Jewish museum police outside there as well. So Jewish community centers will get more protection. We have heard from the London mayor saying he will be doing a similar sort of thing.

But across the U.K. since October 7, antisemitic attacks have stepped up, and particularly, perhaps over the past few months, many people in Jewish communities across the U.K. in fear of an attack just like this.

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And I was speaking to a man here with his children a short time ago and saying: "Look, we're afraid." He said: "I'm even considering moving potentially to Israel because I just -- we just don't feel safe here anymore."

And I think that is pervasive among many people in many Jewish communities, be it in London, be it in Manchester, be it in many other parts of the U.K. And, today, that fear was realized, sadly.

BROWN: Yes, that is so sad.

Nic Robertson in Manchester, England, thank you so much.

And happening now, first came the furloughs. Now come the firings. This morning, President Trump announced that he would hold a key meeting today to identify which -- quote -- "Democrat agencies" he wants to target.

The White House says it will seize on the government shutdown now in its second day to trim down the federal payroll. The president says he will meet today with this man, Russell Vought, to determine which agencies to target. If Vought's name isn't familiar, he is a chief architect of Project 2025, a conservative blueprint to reshape the government and a political initiative the president has long denied any connection to.

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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I have nothing to do -- as you know, and as she knows better than anyone, I have nothing to do with Project 2025. That's out there. I haven't read it. I don't want to read it purposely. I'm not going to read it.

Like some on the right, severe right, came up with this Project 25. And I don't even know. I mean, some of them, I know who they are, but they're very, very conservative, just like you have -- they're the sort of opposite of the radical left, OK? You have the radical left and you have the radical right. They are extreme. I mean, they're seriously extreme.

But I don't know anything about it. I don't want to know anything about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: All right, so Russell Vought is the head of OMB, the Office of Management and Budget.

Rene Marsh, to you in on this, he has previously said about federal workers, we want to put them in trauma. This was before he became the OMB director. Now he's going to be meeting with President Trump to decide who in the federal government is going to be fired. We're told it's imminent. What more are you learning?

RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

I mean, I do think that when we take a look at this shutdown, depending on how long it goes for, we will use the word unprecedented because this is becoming, as it develops, not just a budget battle, which is generally what a government shutdown is, but it has become an opportunity, to use the president's word, opportunity for him to begin to reshape or continue to reshape the federal government in the way that he wants, whether it's eliminating certain programs or further streamlining the federal work force.

Again, when President Trump was in office in 2018 and 2019, we covered that government shutdown and that was very much a budget battle. But again, this is more, in that we're talking about mass firings and the president using this shutdown as an opportunity to move forward with those mass firings, which the White House says could happen in a day or two.

And I have been speaking to furloughed employees. I spoke to a furloughed FDA employee. And this idea of these mass firings layered on top of these workers who are either working without pay or working or not at work and not getting paid, it's certainly adding to the anxiety. I want you to take a listen to this one furloughed FDA employee I spoke to yesterday.

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ANTHONY LEE, FDA EMPLOYEE: We have been traumatized. Many use that word with the illegal firings, the reductions in force. And even the threats of that occurring during this shutdown has been -- really has angered people, not knowing how they're going to pay their next bills, their mortgages, and really not being able to continue to deliver the public services.

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MARSH: So, again, high anxiety, and we're just getting word from our producers that the White House is telling reporters today that the firings for these federal workers is going to be in the thousands.

So that's a big number on top of what has already occurred. And on top of all this, OMB Director Russ Vought, he has posted on social media that it's not just about the firings, but it's also about eliminating programs that they do not believe aligns with the Trump administration.

He put on social media -- and I'm quoting here -- that -- announcing nearly $8 billion in cuts to climate programs that he calls -- quote -- "the green new scam." And many of those programs and those grants were supposed to go to Democratic-led states. So he announced yesterday on social media that that would be cut.

So there are two things happening here, the mass firings, but also looking for ways to cut out what they call Democratic programs that they say don't align with their administration, Pam.

BROWN: All right, Rene Marsh, thank you so much, as always.

Well, happening now, the FAA is investigating how two planes collided on the La Guardia Airport tarmac. The wing of one Delta regional plane slammed into the cockpit of another. You can see right here cracks on the nose of the jet. One person was taken to the hospital after this incident.

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And here's how one passenger described what happened.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were taking right off of the main runway, and all of a sudden you feel the breaks go on and you see this object turn across the left side of the plane. And you feel the front of the plane just kind of get dragged to the right. And you can physically feel like in your seat you moving to the right.

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BROWN: How frightening that must have been. In a statement, Delta called it a -- quote -- "low-speed collision" and says it will work with all relevant authorities during the investigation.

Joining us now is Nick Daniels, the president of the National Air Traffic Controllers Association.

Nick, thanks for being here with us.

I first want to ask you about this low-speed collision at La Guardia Airport. It's now under investigation,. But we have seen a number of these close calls involving passenger aircraft recently. Is this a reminder of just how incredibly complex and unforgiving it is to protect the flying public?

NICK DANIELS, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS ASSOCIATION: Absolutely.

It's always a reminder of the high-consequence job that air traffic controllers do day in and day out and why any unnecessary distraction can't be introduced into the equation of aviation. For the specifics on this, we're a party to the investigation, so I can't speak to the specifics of it.

Like you said, it's a daily reminder of ensuring that the air traffic controllers of the system have the proper tools, equipment and resources to do their job that the American people deserve.

BROWN: Well, air traffic controllers have already been dealing with critical staffing shortages, also outdated equipment. How does the situation that they're in right now, working without pay, impact one of the most stressful jobs I can imagine?

DANIELS: Today introduces an unnecessary distraction with a government shutdown.

Air traffic controllers are American workers like everyone else. They're going to go to work today. They are going to -- they show up to do the best job that they possibly can, ensure the safety of the flying public, but they're also thinking about, I have medical bills I need to pay, student loans I need to pay off.

And not knowing in how long this will go, October 14, they will receive their first partial paycheck. October 28, if it's to go to there, they receive no pay at all. And somebody will say, but they will receive pay eventually. Well, receiving pay eventually, but not being able to plan and having that burden, that stress on you absolutely does not put an air traffic controller in a position to go in and do the amazing work that they are expected to do every single day.

BROWN: What kind of burden and stress are they feeling right now? Help us better understand that.

DANIELS: You know, when you focus, you're always told as an air traffic controller, leave your emotions at the gate as you're going into the building.

We're dealing with child issues. Somebody is going through a divorce or whatever that may be. But you put all that to the side and you go in and you ensure the safety of the flying public. The high consequences of our job deserve and demand that. But you also can't take away from the fact that an air traffic controller is sitting there trying to figure out how to explain to their significant other or to their children that they don't know again when they can start a planning, when they can -- and that lingers in the background for you.

And just every single time that we see any of these issues in an already stressed and fragile system, it just aids to a level of complexity that we don't need.

BROWN: On your critical staffing, are new hirings and training of air traffic controllers still continuing under the shutdown or is that all on hold?

DANIELS: Well, commend Secretary Duffy and Administrator Bedford. They have for the first time in the history of our shutdowns, they have kept the Oklahoma City Academy going.

Hiring has stopped, but those who are there continue on and they progress the facilities. But 2,350 people that support the training of air traffic controllers, that support the training at the field facilities doing the simulations or the classroom, they're furloughed and now parts of our training can't continue.

So, while aspects of it are carrying on and going, there are many of it that are going to be hold -- or going to hold us back. And with that, that's exactly how we got this problem in the first place, is having stop-and-go funding, government shutdowns. They continue to be the problem of why we're talking about short staffing and unreliable equipment.

BROWN: Tell us more about that, the short staffing, unreliable equipment and how that is factoring in potentially in to these close calls that I feel like just keep happening.

I mean, and, as you well know, at DCA, not far from where we are now, there was the midair collision between a plane and a helicopter. Of course, that was -- that was a little bit more of a complex issue with the military helicopter. But I think people are scared right now.

DANIELS: Well, they shouldn't be scared in the fact of knowing that 10,800 certified professional controllers go to work every day with their safety in mind and realizing that this is why we have been advocating for a decade about these very issues, is, we should have 14,633 running the system today.

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We should have equipment that is modernized and it wasn't invented in the '80s and cannot be modernized beyond the point of where it is now. And that's why we have been advocating for it. It's why we support the plans of a $12.5 billion investment in it. But as you slow it down, this problem and this timeline continues on.

The American public looks at it and says, we know it's a real problem, do something about it, and the government shutdown just adds to, again, the timeline, to it being handled in a quick-like manner. And, ultimately, it's not the support of the air traffic controllers that they're looking for in order to get out of this crisis.

BROWN: Nick Daniels, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

Well, still ahead, we're talking with the chairman of the Memphis City Council, as law enforcement ramps up its presence there as part of the Trump administration's crackdown on crime.

Plus, new details about Defense Secretary Hegseth's plans to revamp the armed forces. We're going to get a reaction from someone who once held the job.

You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

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BROWN: Happening now: Federal authorities have new numbers for their operation in Memphis. Attorney General Pam Bondi says the Memphis Safe Task Force has made 93 arrests and seized 28 illegal firearms so far in the president's crime crackdown.

I want to note it's not immediately clear how that compares to an average 72-hour span in the city, but some people there are bracing -- are embracing the extra law enforcement, while others are protesting it.

Joining us now is Memphis City Council Chairman J. Ford Canale.

Thanks so much for coming on.

So, the FBI says Memphis had the highest violent crime rate last year.

J. FORD CANALE, CHAIRMAN, MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE, CITY COUNCIL: It's a pleasure to be with you.

BROWN: Thank you.

So, the FBI had said that Memphis, your city, has had the highest violent crime rate among cities with more than 250,000 people. I'm wondering how you're viewing this -- the National Guard coming in and the extra law enforcement and how your constituents are feeling about this?

CANALE: Yes, Pamela, I think the reaction is still a little mixed.

The National Guard situation is still pretty fluid. There are a few here, but they have not started patrolling or doing exactly what their tasks are going to be. And that is still a little bit up in the air as to what they will be doing.

But the federal agencies that are here and that have been making arrests has been welcomed by law enforcement. Look, last night, I got the opportunity to see several of them. And seeing these men and women from multi agencies getting to know each other and working together to all solve one common goal, one mission, is to lower the violent crime rate in Memphis, was very refreshing.

And I think every Memphian can get behind that. We all want a safer city for ourselves, for our children and for all of our tourists that come and see our great city on a weekly basis.

BROWN: So how does it compare, the arrests that they have made so far, as I said, 93 arrests and seized illegal firearms, how does that compare to how it was before this federal crime crackdown?

CANALE: Well, I don't know how -- I don't think I can give you an exact number, but it's definitely ramped up.

There are warrants that were out there that the MPD from short staffing have just not been able to find all of the people, the violent criminals, but also a great stat is the 28 illegal guns off the streets. I know they have seized these drugs as well.

And the mission of this remains the same, which is to get violent criminals off the street, get illegal and stolen guns off the street, and get drugs off the street that don't get in the hands of our youth.

BROWN: I'm wondering, though. As you talk about Memphis residents, some of them are really liking this crackdown and the reduction in crime, but we talked to a pastor earlier who brought up Tyre Nichols and how there's just a lack of trust between some of the Memphis residents and law enforcement. How do you think that is -- that dynamic is playing out there?

CANALE: Yes, well, I think it's always incumbent upon our law enforcement agencies to build trust with the community.

And we have said that long before this ever happened, that it's good to get to know the residents and for them to trust the men and women in blue, but also for them to understand that they have families too. They're out there risking their lives in order to make us more safe.

So we should appreciate what they're doing, but I also -- I always believe in building trust between the community and law enforcement agencies. And I think you will see that, especially with this cross- collaboration between local, state and federal authorities.

Look, along with the violent criminals, we have had an issue here in Memphis with reckless driving and drag racing, people terrorizing our streets and a lot of illegal tags. And the governor has sent us quite a few extra THP to patrol our streets. And they're making stops and they're helping correct that, so that people are safe on our roadways as well.

BROWN: I want to play some sound of what we heard from Trump administration officials addressing law enforcement in Tennessee yesterday. Let's watch.

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STEPHEN MILLER, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF: I see the guns and badges in this room. You are unleashed. The handcuffs that you're carrying, they're not on you anymore. They're on the criminals. And whenever you need to get it done, we're going to get it done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Do you support that message from Stephen Miller that law enforcement is now -- quote -- "unleashed"?

CANALE: I don't know that I would use the word unleashed, but I would say that the federal assistance is welcome with our MPD in the cross- collaboration, keeping one goal in mind, to make Memphis safe, not just for the next coming weeks and months, but I'm talking about for the next decades for all those generations behind us,so that they can raise their families in a safe, welcoming and clean city.

[11:25:08] We all want that. Doesn't matter in what district you live in, 1 through 7. We all want a safer city. We all want our kids to be able to play outside and go to our libraries, community centers and athletic events. We want our tourists to be safe when they walk around the streets of downtown, midtown or East Memphis.

We want every citizen and every tourist to be safe. And that's the bottom line.

BROWN: So, Tennessee Democratic Congressman Steve Cohen argues, look, he wants a real long-term solution to the crime problem, as you just said, there in Memphis. But he says that involves improving mental health, education and economic development, rather than this operation by the White House, which is just temporary.

Is he wrong?

CANALE: No, no, look, we can do both the same time.

We can invest in early childhood education, which the city has done through pre-K. We can invest in mental health, which the city has done through Alliance Healthcare. We can invest in other options that help prevent some of the situations we have from happening.

It's not a one or the other. But right now we have to get the violent criminals off the streets. We have to get the illegal and stolen guns off the streets. We have to get the drugs off the streets. But investing in our future, absolutely. I don't believe that we could ever overinvest in ourselves in infrastructure, libraries, community centers, anything that we help -- that helps draw people to Memphis, but also for our citizens to enjoy on a daily basis.

And I think we can do both at the same time. We're very capable of that.

BROWN: And before we let you go, I want to get your reaction to what the president suggested this week, that cities like yours could be used as a -- quote -- "training ground" for the military.

What do you say to that?

CANALE: Yes, what I would say is we want this to be such a successful collaboration between multi agencies working together to achieve one common goal, to lower the crime rate in Memphis, that we would love to be an example of other cities to look to us and say, how did you get it done, because we know we're not the only city in the United States that has problems.

We know there's other cities that face the same situations and issues that we do. So we'd love to be the gold standard for how you can do that and how you can work together and work with the community and make everyone safer.

BROWN: Right, but that's separate from using the -- your city as a training ground for the military. What do you think about that specifically? CANALE: Well, the military, which is really just the National Guard,

we haven't gotten exact details of what they're going to be doing.

In D.C., they did more cleanup. They helped with the homeless population. They can help patrol. They can help with high-traffic areas during our sporting events. I haven't gotten any details on what exactly they're going to be doing, but I don't think it's going to be training.

I think it's going to keep them active. But, look, they're used to keeping their assets safe and protected and clean as well on their base. So I think, look, this could be a really big win, all of us working together to clip up the city, both literally and figuratively.

And I think that we could have -- at the end, when this is all over, I think we have a great model that will work for years to come.

BROWN: All right, Memphis City Council Chairman Ford Canale, thank you so much.

Up next...

CANALE: Thank you, Pamela.

And, also, I want to take some invitation to you. I have said to Wolf last time, welcome to Memphis any time. I'd love to show you around.

BROWN: You did. I love Memphis. I love it. I have been there. I have friends there.

CANALE: Come see it.

BROWN: All right, thanks so much. I appreciate the invite.

CANALE: Come see it.

BROWN: And up next right here in THE SITUATION ROOM: The Pentagon is turning up the heat in its bid to clamp down on leaks. We're going to speak with the former Defense Secretary Leon Panetta about the Defense Department's use of polygraphs and NDAs.

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