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The Situation Room

A.G. Pam Bondi Testifies Before Senate Judiciary Committee; Bondi Question on Trump DOJ's Handling of Epstein Files. Aired 10- 10:30a ET

Aired October 07, 2025 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:00]

PAM BONDI, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Why did you fight for years to -- why did you fight to not with disclose the flight logs, Senator Durbin?

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): I can tell you, I did not refuse. One of the senators here wished to produce those logs, and I asked her to put it in writing and she never did.

BONDI: Yes, I think Senator Blackburn would quarrel with you on that, but that's up to the two of you.

DURBIN: Oh, I will quarrel with you as to read somebody that you mentioned I never heard of.

BONDI: Reid Hoffman.

DURBIN: So, who gave the order to flag records related to President Trump?

BONDI: To flag records for President Trump?

DURBIN: To flag any records which included his name.

BONDI: I'm not going to discuss anything about that with you, Senator.

DURBIN: Eventually, you're going to have to answer for your conduct in this, and you won't do it today, but eventually you will. I yield, Mr. Chairman.

SEN. CHUCK GRASSLEY (R-IA): I got to interject something here --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Chairman? Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman?

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: We want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer with Pamela Brown, and you're in The Situation Room.

We've all been listening to the attorney general of the United States, Pam Bondi. She's been testifying before the Senate Judiciary Committee and facing very serious questions from U.S. senators. Pamela?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Right. I want to go live now to CNN's Evan Perez on Capitol Hill. What stood out to you from this hearing so far? Clearly, Pam Bondi came prepared with that questioning with Senator Durbin, is really going on offense there.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Look, I mean that's the theme now we see with these hearings. We saw this with the FBI director, Kash Patel, a couple weeks ago, and, clearly, the attorney general came prepared for the questions from the Democrats. You saw her attack the ranking member, Durbin, there, accusing him of caring -- hating. Donald Trump more than he cares about Chicago and the public safety issues that are going on in Chicago.

BROWN: Listen, I'm going to go back to Senator Durbin. We're going to go back to that hearing to see what's going on here.

GRASSLEY: -- about emolument clause and Democrats bringing that up in regard to Qatar. Back in March of 2016, they didn't care anything about my bringing up the emolument clause in regard -- I wrote to the Obama Justice Department. That letter was based on Secretary Clinton's 2009 to 2013 financial disclosures when she was secretary of state.

Those disclosures showed that her husband participated in at least 62 events with foreign states. Some of those were speaking events with connections to foreign governments and some speaking events were financially supported by foreign governments. Two examples, Bill Clinton received hundreds of thousands of dollars for appearance sponsored by Middle Eastern governments. Bill Clinton also received $200,000 for a speech connected to the Chinese government. And I don't recall getting any help from my Democrat colleagues on that investigation.

Senator Graham?

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): Good morning.

BONDI: Good morning.

GRAHAM: Thank you. So, I want to make sure I got this clear. If a Democrat or a Republican senator has a problem with a grant that's been canceled or reduced, you would be glad to talk to them?

BONDI: Yes, Senator, and I have been doing that as well.

GRAHAM: There have been Democratic members who called you?

BONDI: They have spoken to my office, yes, Senator.

GRAHAM: And you've tried to respond?

BONDI: On either side of the aisle? Of course. If it has anything to do with law enforcement or victims --

GRAHAM: And that includes Senator Durbin? If he's got a problem, he can call you and you'll try to respond?

BONDI: Absolutely.

GRAHAM: Thank you. How many illegal immigrants are in Chicago? Does anybody know?

BONDI: I do, countless.

What we have seen since January 20th, Senator Graham, is a 1,000 percent increase in violent attacks against our ICE officers.

GRAHAM: Right. But I just want to know, is there like ten or --

BONDI: There have been multiple lead (ph), of course, involving violent gangs in Chicago, throughout Illinois.

GRAHAM: Right. So, the only reason I ask that is Chicago is sanctuary city. Do they help ICE deal with illegal immigration or their sanctuary city? Do you know?

BONDI: They are not cooperating. And I would ask that I wish Senator Durbin would condemn the governor for not cooperating with our law enforcement officers.

GRAHAM: The only reason I mention this, if you're a sanctuary city, any place in the country, you're making it difficult for the rest of us, because word gets out, if you get to a certain city, maybe Chicago being one of them, that you're home free.

[10:05:08]

And that just encourages more illegal immigration. Do you deal with that -- agree with that?

BONDI: I do, Senator Graham. And can I add something to that?

GRAHAM: Sure.

BONDI: Please? One of our biggest wins was against the Sinaloa Cartel and that the state of Illinois has a Trust Act, which prevents local law enforcement from cooperating with our federal immigration authorities. And that's what I was trying to talk to Senator Durbin about. On September 15th, our partners at ICE arrested an illegal alien from Mexico for beating a 21-year-old man to death. He had been imprisoned in Illinois prior to the murder and was released under Illinois' Trust Act.

We filed multiple lawsuits in Illinois for sanctuary policies, specifically in-state tuition for illegal aliens and obstructing employers from verifying citizenship. You can't make this up. On September 5th, a federal grand jury in Chicago indicted a major Sinaloa cartel boss, narco-terrorism, guns, and drug charges. On July 11th, we announced a guilty plea. Plus, you may know him as the son of El Chapo, one of the worst narco-terrorist in the world, in the world, Senators.

GRAHAM: In Chicago.

BONDI: In Chicago, in Chicago. He entered a guilty plea to drug conspiracy and two counts of knowingly engaging in a continuing criminal enterprise in the state of Illinois. I could continue with fentanyl. I could continue with child predators in Illinois.

GRAHAM: Well, thank you. I think I've seen numbers over a hundred thousand. So, Chicago and other sanctuary cities, you're making it harder for us to deal with illegal immigration by doing what you're doing. And I am glad President Trump is trying to change those policies. And if you need the National Guard to bring order out of chaos, so be it, from my point of view.

Now, let's get back to the topic sort of at hand here about how the law is being used politically. In September 2022, Attorney General James from New York basically said in a campaign that she would go after Trump, his business transactions, and his family will full force. November the 15th, 2022, Trump announces his candidacy for President. November 2022, three days after Trump announced his reelection campaign, Jack Smith was appointed by Garland to be special counsel to look at classified information document mishandling and trying to undermine the 2020 election.

In March, President Trump was indicted in Manhattan of 2023, just after announcing 34 felony counts. And what they did is they took misdemeanors and turned them into felonies by using a legal theory that no one in the history of Manhattan had ever been charged with.

June 2023, a federal grand jury in the district court for the Southern District of Florida indicted President Trump on 37 charges regarding classified information.

Now, all I can say is that taking a hammer to a hard drive and bleach apparently doesn't make the cut. Having documents in the garage where President Biden doesn't make the cut. In August of 2023, he was indicted yet again regarding the 2020 election. So, all I can say is that in September 27th, Jack Smith's team asked for my phone records and seven other senators.

Now, that's just the 2024 election. Comey, are you aware of the fact that in August, Comey, then director of CIA -- I mean, excuse me, FBI, August of 2016, was in a meeting at the White House where it was discussed that by Brennan, then-CIA director, that there was intelligence that maybe the Clinton campaign was trying to cook up a narrative that Trump was a Russian asset?

BONDI: Senator, I believe that has been reported publicly, but I cannot comment on that.

[10:10:01]

GRAHAM: Well, okay. Well, I'm just telling you now. This is a campaign for president in 2016. In July, they open up Crossfire Hurricane. In August, they have a discussion in front of President Biden that there's intel that maybe this is generated by his political opponent. Nothing happened.

In September, are you aware of the fact that the intelligence community sent a memo to the FBI director detailing intelligence that suggests as Clinton's campaign is behind the idea that Trump is colluding or cooperating with the Russians?

BONDI: Senator, I believe that has been reported.

GRAHAM: And that was addressed to the FBI director and Mr. Strzok, this memo. Are you aware that he told this committee, I don't recall that, the FBI director?

BONDI: Senator, I can't discuss anything on it.

GRAHAM: Well, I can tell you this. What the hell would you recall? You're the sitting FBI director. There's a campaign for president going on. You've opened up an investigation believing that the Republican candidate may be a Russian asset, and now all of a sudden, less than a month later, two months later, you have two inquiries, two events to suggest it may be his political opponent. Did anybody in the FBI inform the FISA court or anyone else about this activity that you know of?

BONDI: I can't discuss that matter, as you know, Senator Graham?

GRAHAM: Should they have? Is there a requirement by law enforcement to tell the court if their warrant is being sought or a defendant that there's exculpatory information out there about you?

BONDI: In general, of course, Senator.

GRAHAM: So, to the country, the FBI director gets a memo from the intel community this may be all a political plot by his opponent, they didn't do a damn thing.

Are you familiar with the Steele dossier?

BONDI: Yes, Senator.

GRAHAM: That was a dossier prepared and paid for by the Clinton campaign. Are you aware that it was that document was used to get a warrant on five different occasions against Carter Page and an American citizen?

BONDI: Yes, Senator, and that has been recorded.

GRAHAM: Are you aware of the fact in February 2017, after Trump is president, the person who gave Christopher Steele the information, the Russian guy, told the FBI, the information I provided you was all bar talk, hearsay and not reliable? Are you aware of that?

BONDI: Yes, Senator.

GRAHAM: Was there ever an effort by the FBI to tell the FISA court about evidence that the man who helped prepare the document retracted his statement?

BONDI: I can't discuss that, Senator.

GRAHAM: Should there have been?

BONDI: I can't discuss that, Senator.

GRAHAM: You wonder why we're looking at Comey? Give me a break. Why are we looking at Comey? Because he ran an FBI and personally knew about exculpatory information and let it slide. How in the hell can two FBI agents interview a man who says the document you're using against a sitting president to suggest he may be a Russian agent or a Carter Page that is now no longer reliable, how does that not get to the court? Can you tell me how that doesn't get to the court? You can't, can you?

BONDI: I can't, Senator, and I can't --

GRAHAM: Can you tell me why my phone records, when I'm the chairman of the Judiciary Committee, were sought by the Jack Smith agents? Why did they ask to know who I called and what I was doing from January 4th to the 7th? Can you tell me that?

BONDI: No. Senator, and there were eight senators in total.

GRAHAM: Do you think that was an abuse of power? Senator, I cannot discuss whether there is or is not an ongoing investigation. If I may add one thing, they also wasted $50 million on what you just described trying to put President Trump in jail prior to the election.

GRASSLEY: Before Senator Whitehouse, I want to introduce into the record what is called a Durham Annex. The annex is a declassified appendix. It's John Durham's report about Crossfire Hurricane. The Durham Annex contains information exposing a reported Clinton campaign plan to falsify and tie President Trump to Russia. For years, I've fought to assemble and publicize all the facts surrounding Durham investigation, Crossfire Hurricane, and related matters. The Durham Annex was declassified as a large part because of Attorney General Bondi.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Chairman --

BROWN: All right. You've been watching Attorney General Pam Bondi taking questions from lawmakers on Capitol Hill. We'll be monitoring it all morning and we're going to bring it to you live, obviously.

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So, stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back to our special coverage. We're watching the attorney general of the United States, Pam Bondi's testimony in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee right now, some serious questions coming up. I want to go back to the hearing right now and listen to Senator Sheldon Whitehouse ask questions. He's the Democrat from Rhode Island.

SEN. SHELDON WHITEHOUSE (D-RI): -- far right internet talking points really is not very helpful here. I'd like -- Mr. Chairman, you generally like to have us be able to get answers to know, and we'll follow up with the QFR, and to the extent Patel wants to answer that, that would be great as well.

[10:20:02]

What happened to the $50,000? Did Homan keep it? Did the FBI get it back? If he kept it, did he put it on his tax returns? Pretty simple questions.

Homan was the same guy who said there was a deal with Eric Adams. He said, if Adams doesn't come through, I'll be back. I'll be in his office up his butt, saying, where the hell is the agreement we came to, which brings us to the OPR investigation of prosecutorial misconduct by Emil Bove, because he was also involved in that transaction. What became of the OPR investigation of prosecutorial misconduct by Emil Bove.

BONDI: Yes. Senator Whitehouse to correct you for one moment, that would be the honorable Judge Emil J. Bove III to you.

WHITEHOUSE: Not at the time of this. He was an employee of the Department of Justice. And what became of the OPR investigation --

BONDI: it's all pending litigation, Senator. I can't discuss pending litigation nor personnel matters.

WHITEHOUSE: OPR, customarily, publicly says when there is an investigation and at the end of it, they provide a summary. Why can't you say whether there is an OPR investigation and whether if it's concluded, there's a summary?

BONDI: Senator, I'm not going to discuss personnel matters.

WHITEHOUSE: Even public ones?

BONDI: Senator, I'm not going to discuss personnel matters.

WHITEHOUSE: So, Kash Patel told this committee that his grand jury testimony after immunization, after initially pleading the Fifth was, and I quote, sealed by the Department of Justice. How and when and why was his testimony sealed and by whom?

BONDI: Senator, I'm not going to discuss any testimony, especially testimony that could be sealed with you.

WHITEHOUSE: No. The question is, was it or was it not sealed?

BONDI: Senator, I'm not going to discuss that with you.

WHITEHOUSE: Well, he also said that he worked with the Department of Justice to have his transcript released publicly. How and when was his transcript released? Presumably, if he released it publicly, that's something you can discuss because it's public.

BONDI: Well, Senator, I believe you discussed that with Director Patel.

WHITEHOUSE: And I'm asking you because he said the Department of Justice made this decision and you run the Department of Justice.

BONDI: I would refer that to Director Patel.

WHITEHOUSE: Even though you run the Department of Justice, and he testified that the Department of Justice released his transcript publicly?

BONDI: If it is released publicly, we will get you a copy, Senator, gladly.

WHITEHOUSE: If being a rather important word there when your FBI director testified that that was a fact.

Treasury compiles suspicious activity reports referred to often as SARS that DOJ receives automatically hundreds related to accounts of Jeffrey Epstein. How many of those Treasury SARS did you or Director Patel investigate?

BONDI: Senator, I'm not sure if you're concerned because you took money, I believe, did you from Reid Hoffman, one of Epstein's closest confidence, not only once, but twice in 2018 and 2024, if that's correct. But, Senator, did you ask Merrick Garland any of this over the last four years when he sat before you? This investigation has been going on. This investigation was closed. Did you ask Alex Acosta that?

WHITEHOUSE: When you and Patel came to office, you said you would look into this. There were hundreds of suspicious activity reports. Some people would deduce from the fact that they are called suspicious activity reports, that there might be suspicious activity, and yet you seem to have looked at zero of those suspicious activity reports involving Jeffrey Epstein accounts.

Let me ask you something else. There's been public reporting that Jeffrey Epstein showed people photos of President Trump with half naked young women. Do you know if the FBI found those photographs in their search of Jeffrey Epstein safe or premises or otherwise?

[10:25:00]

Have you seen any such thing?

BONDI: You know, Senator Whitehouse, you sit here and make salacious remarks once again trying to slander President Trump left and right when you are the one who was taking money from one of Epstein's closest confidants, I believe. I could be wrong, correct me, Reid Hoffman, who was with Jeffrey Epstein on multiple occasions, and the senator sitting right next to you tried to block the flight logs from being released, yet you're grilling me on President Trump and some photograph with Epstein? Come on.

BONDI: The question is, did the FBI find those photographs that have been discussed publicly by a witness who claimed Jeffrey Epstein showed them to him? You don't know anything about that? Okay.

Here's what some -- well, no, we cut to something else. The Marshals Service is supposed to protect our federal judges. I have asked repeatedly for the Marshals Service to let me know if they are investigating or being inhibited from investigating whether or not there is orchestration of threats against federal judges, whether under either conspiracy laws or racketeering enterprise laws, or aiding and abetting laws, whatever. But as you know, there's the person who says the threat, and then there may very well be somebody orchestrating the threat behind them. Is the Marshals Service allowed to investigate orchestration of threats and do you know if they've taken one step to do so?

BONDI: May I answer the question, Chairman Grassley? The time has expired.

WHITEHOUSE: I think it's the convention of the committee that if I've started my question in my time, you may answer the question.

BONDI: I was asking the chairman.

GRASSLEY: Okay. Before I go to Cornyn --

WHITEHOUSE: She wants to answer the question, Chairman.

GRASSLEY: Oh, please go ahead. I thought you said you did want to answered that. I'm sorry.

BONDI: Yes, sir. Thank you. Senator Whitehouse, I would be happy to sit down with you regarding any threat to any federal judge in this country. We take threats very seriously. I will set a meeting with you, Director Serralta of the U.S. Marshals and I will be there. And we will talk about any threats on federal judges, including who threatened them or who orchestrated them.

WHITEHOUSE: Bingo. Thank you.

GRASSLEY: Okay. Before --

BROWN: All right. So, you have been listening to an exchange between Democratic Senator Sheldon Whitehouse and Attorney General Pam Bondi. And you saw there Attorney General Bondi deflecting many of the questions, really going on the offense and deferring to her subordinates on some questions relating to Tom Homan and the Epstein file.

So, for more on this, I want to go to our legal analysts. We have here Elliot Williams and Elise Adamson. Elliot, what stood out to you from that?

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I think two things. One, there is a level of punchiness or punching back from the attorney general that we really are not used to seeing in hearings. You saw it with Kash Patel as well.

She clearly has in the binder literally an opposition file in every one of the Democratic senators and is pointing to things about their states, things about them personally that, you know, might be distractions from the questions they're asking, but are ways to turn the questioning back onto them. That's just not something you often see in the lofty decorum of these hearings. That's one.

Number two, and I think the way the Democrats or anybody of either party could just get out of the partisan fight here, there's one question she's not being asked. And it occurred to me with her opening statement today where she says, you know, all of this is designed to halt an agenda that won the popular vote in all seven battleground states less than a year ago. She's bringing politics into this.

The question for her from anybody ought to be, Madam Attorney General, does the fact that something's popular make it legal? Yes or no? And just ask her to get on the record and see. Because all these things about polls, and this is what the people wanted, but she's not talking about the legality of them, and she's sort of ducking the questions, and I think all of them could really get --

BLITZER: Were you surprised, Alyse, that the attorney general of the United States couldn't or wouldn't answer the question that the senator asked about Tom Homan, the border czar for Trump, who took $50,000 of cash in a paper bag, whatever happened to that $50,000? Was it returned? Did he keep it? If he kept it, did he pay taxes on it? She refused to answer any of those questions.

ALYSE ADAMSON, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Yes. I think that was extremely telling, Wolf, because just prior to that, she had some very polished talking points attacking a lot of Democratic narratives.

[10:30:02]

You know, that's how they would characterize it, but was unable, and as you said, unwilling to opine on that at all.