Return to Transcripts main page

The Situation Room

Arrest Made in Palisades Fire; Fact-Checking Trump's Claims About Portland; Interview With Chicago, Illinois, Mayor Brandon Johnson. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired October 08, 2025 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:31:39]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: The Trump administration is asking an appeals court to allow National Guard deployment to Portland, Oregon. This comes as the president and officials from his administration are repeatedly saying that Portland is overrun with violence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN MILLER, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF: It's important to understand that, in Portland, ICE officers have been subjected to over 100 nights of terrorist assault, doxxing, murder threats, violent attack, and every other means imaginable to try to overturn the results of the last election through violence.

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: For more than 100 days, night after night after night, the ICE facility has been really under siege by these anarchists outside.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Portland is on fire. Portland has been on fire for years, and not so much saving it. We have to save something else, because I think that's all insurrection. I really think that's really criminal insurrection.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: CNN correspondent Tom Foreman is here in THE SITUATION ROOM to give us the facts about what's happening on the ground in Portland right now.

What are you learning, Tom?

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What I'm learning, Wolf, is something very different than what the White House is claiming. Both our own reporting and witnesses there say, look, this is the Portland ICE facility down here, and this is the rest of Portland, the city itself, more than 600,000 people, the metro area, well over two million people.

And all of it seems to be happening in one area, so much so that the Portland police chief says one block in Portland does not define the city's identity. And yet the White House, as you can see, continues to look at what's happening right next to this area where the ICE facility is, and they're saying this is -- this war zone that's burning the whole city to the ground, kind of like what they did in L.A., where it was also quite isolated, Wolf.

BLITZER: So, Tom, what has happened at that facility since June?

FOREMAN: Yes, to not make light of it, because there have been incidents, and they have been important, flammable materials stacked against the ICE facility. Another man lit that material. A suspect punched and tried to choke an officer. June 12, 10 people were arrested, some for starting fires outside the building, allegedly.

June 14, a protesting connection with the No Kings movement turned violent. Police declared a riot. They made three arrests there. And following the week after June 14, police monitored the area, and they made four arrests.

So there is plenty of stuff going on. The police have been called more than 100 times to the ICE facility this year, so that's a lot of action there, total arrests there 40 arrests since early June, and total federal charges, 31 defendants charged with federal crimes since June 13.

But, again, all of this is centered around the ICE facility. And out of an area of more than two million people, you look at those numbers and say they're big, they're important. Are they big enough, important enough to say this is an insurrection or a rebellion or reason to try to send troops in, which a judge so far has said, no, there's no evidence of that yet, Wolf.

BLITZER: And, as you know, Tom, the Trump administration is pointing to a real fear of ICE agents being doxxed, with people posting personal information of agents. So what are they saying?

FOREMAN: Well, that's basically what they're saying. They're just saying, look, if you look at what's been going on here, they feel like the ICE agents are being individually targeted.

The quote from the deputy director of the Federal Protective Service: "It's not uncommon for officers who have been deployed to Portland from other locations to fill operational needs to be tailed and followed back to their hotels." I would not be surprised if that is true.

[11:35:07]

But, again, Wolf, the question is, is that simply something that should be handled in normal business by ICE, normal business by federal agents and local police, or does this somehow escalate it to this area where you can use words like rebellion and insurrection? And, again, so far, a judge up there says, no, at this point, it does not.

BLITZER: What's happening in Portland now, Tom? FOREMAN: It's interesting, not only from witnesses on the ground, but

our own reporters say, yes, this is an ongoing thing. One witness that I'm aware of had said earlier today it's more of a party atmosphere with the protesters showing up: "Yes, every day, we go and we protest. We make them know that we don't like them being there."

But listen to what our Shimon Prokupecz says, reporting from the street there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, SENIOR CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: As night falls, tension begins to fill the air. You see the officers are coming out now because a car is coming out, and every time a car comes out, these officers come out and they push the crowd back.

That's usually when there's some altercation. It's when they come out, they push the crowd back as they wait for this car to come through. Federal agents monitor the crowd from the roof, at times firing pepper balls on the pavement below. You can see there the pepper balls are coming from the roof.

So, on this side, you have a lot of the Trump supporters and the pro- administration and pro-ICE people, and there have been some clashes back-and-forth with some of the other protesters. And they say that someone, one of them, protesters, burned an American flag.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOREMAN: The protests, yes. The question, Wolf, is, do more federal agents, do military people showing up there help contain all of that, or does that incite it and make it worse? That's a question for authorities all up and down the line.

BLITZER: All right, Tom Foreman, thank you very, very much -- Pamela.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: All right, Wolf.

Happening now: Members of the Texas National Guard are at a military facility right near Chicago for legal and crowd control training. That's according to a law enforcement source.

The city of Chicago and state of Illinois are suing the Trump administration over its federalization of Guard troops. City and state officials consider it unlawful.

Joining us now to discuss this further is Chicago Mayor Brandon Johnson.

So, Mayor, we're going to get to the National Guard in just a minute.

But, first, President Trump this morning called for you and Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker to be jailed for -- quote -- "failing to protect ICE officers." What is your response?

BRANDON JOHNSON (D), MAYOR OF CHICAGO, ILLINOIS: Well first of all, this president is unstable, unhinged, a double-minded individual that, quite frankly, is a threat to our democracy.

And it's certainly not the first time that Donald Trump has called for the arresting of a black man unjustly. I'm not going anywhere. I'm going to stay firm as the mayor of this amazing city, which was voted nine years in a row the best big city in America. And we're going to defend all of Chicago.

BROWN: Yes, and, to be clear, he's also calling for the governor, J.B. Pritzker, to be jailed as well.

What are you hearing when it comes to the Texas National Guard troops, when they will actually be deployed into the city, when -- what they're actually going to be doing there?

JOHNSON: Well, there's been no communications with my administration and the federal government. What we do know is that this president is working outside the bounds of the Constitution and that there are National Guard from the state of Texas that are being -- quote, unquote -- "trained" just outside of the city of Chicago.

And, keep in mind, these individuals do not have policing powers. They do not have arresting powers. So, the judge right now in Illinois is looking at, what exactly is the mission of the National Guard from the state of Texas? We know this is illegal, unconstitutional. That's already been proven in the courts in Oregon, and we fully expect the same ruling to take place here in the state of Illinois.

BROWN: And the White House says that they're doing what they're allowed to do under Title X, the law. They say that these operations are designed to protect federal facilities and officers. And there have been some protesters around Chicago that have blocked access to the ICE facility in Broadview.

Does that prove that this mobilization is needed?

JOHNSON: No.

In fact, this president is working to -- look, from the very beginning, we always knew that sitting in the federal agents was a pretext for the National Guard. His ultimate goal is to send the military into American cities, which there aren't people who are signing up to serve and protect our democracy abroad to be then unleashed on the cities that are actually raising them.

What we have seen is a full escalation from these federal agents. A man was shot and killed. Another person was shot by federal agents. Just this past weekend, they unleashed tear gas on my local police department. Over two dozen police officers were subject to this type of violent escalation.

[11:40:06]

The people in Chicago are very clear about our fundamental right to protest. That is a fundamental right for our democracy, and that's what we're going to continue to protect. BROWN: Right. Now, the woman that was shot, DHS has said they did

that for defensive reasons, she was car-ramming. But there are certainly questions surrounding that still.

But when it comes to what I had mentioned, for example, protesters blocking access to federal buildings, what is your message to those protesters? I mean, do you support them blocking access?

JOHNSON: What I have always said is that we have to peacefully assemble and we do that nonviolently. That is how we have transformed this country.

The city of Chicago is known for its ability to stand up and to resist peacefully. So, of course, we're not condoning any acts of violence. But that also includes that the federal government cannot unleash tear gas and shoot pepper balls at journalists for just showing up to do their job and to cover the news.

This president has intentionally worked to escalate violence in the city of Chicago and cities across America. We're just simply defending our fundamental right to our democracy. This president has made it very clear he doesn't support this Constitution. And if Congress, which our framers designed for Congress and the Supreme Court and the courts to provide checks and balance, if Congress will not hold this president accountable, I will.

BROWN: And what are you going to do?

JOHNSON: Well, just this past week, I signed another executive order. We have three sweeping executive orders to make sure that the fundamental right to protest is intact.

We're making sure that people know their rights. And all of our sister depart agencies and city departments are working in accordance with the local ordinance. And then now public property that the city owns, ICE cannot prepare its weapons on school parking lots. ICE cannot prepare to disappear families in the parking lots of libraries. That's not what these public accommodations are for.

We literally had a South Side neighborhood under siege with black helicopters -- Black Hawk helicopters, where individuals who were sleeping peacefully in their communities had masked armed men stick long guns in their faces. This is not the type of America that my ancestors, our ancestors, fought hard to create.

This is a fundamental attack on our democracy. It's not about immigration. It's not about safety. It's about authoritarianism. And we're going to push back and we're going to defend Chicago and all American cities against this tyrant.

BROWN: OK, but let me just go to the issue, like, at that Chicago apartment of building overnight last week.

This is according to DHS; 37 undocumented immigrants were arrested in that operation. The building was targeted because it was known to be frequented by Tren de Aragua gang members. I mean, how do you respond to people who say these sorts of efforts are making the country safer?

JOHNSON: Look, I'm working hard every single day to build the safest, most affordable big city in America. Just this past summer, we had the fewest amount of homicides since 1965. Homicides are down. Shootings are down. Shooting victims are down. A lot of work to be done, but we are building a safe, affordable big city in America.

But I don't know if there's anybody in America that believes that armed masked men showing up with Black Hawk helicopters, sticking guns in the faces of black women, zip-tying black children, putting immigrants in one van, putting black folks in another van -- this is not what builds safety.

What builds safety is to make sure that we're doing what I have done, working with the ATF and my local law enforcement to get illegal weapons off the streets of Chicago, guns that are being trafficked from states that voted for Donald Trump.

If he was serious about safety, he would not have defunded a program of $800 million that was geared towards violence prevention. He cut the ATF budget by 30 percent. He has defunded our education system. He has defunded our transportation system. He is firing black women across this country. He's defunding our health care system.

This president is absolutely out of control, and it's incumbent upon all of us. If there was ever a time for working people to unite in this country, now is that time. And the city of Chicago is going to stand firm in protecting humanity and protecting and defending our democracy.

BROWN: All right, Chicago Mayor Brandon Johnson, thank you for your time.

JOHNSON: Thank you.

BLITZER: All right, there's more news we're following.

Michael Ben'Ary was fired from his position as the top national security prosecutor in Virginia's Eastern District. His dismissal came after a pro-Donald Trump activist posted this on X -- and I'm quoting now -- "One can only assume he was a big part of the internal resistance to the Comey indictment."

On Friday, Ben'Ary posted a note on his office door saying he was troubled by his abrupt removal and noting it will disrupt and hurt important work in the office like the prosecution of Mohammad Sharifullah, the only person to face justice in the U.S. for the 2021 bombing over at the Abbey Gate of the Kabul Airport in Afghanistan.

[11:45:24]

That case will mark just the second time ever that a foreign terrorism suspect will be prosecuted in a U.S. criminal court on charges related to killing American service members in a war zone. Sharifullah, also known as Jafar, has been charged with aiding and abetting the suicide bombing that killed 13 American service members and more than 160 Afghans.

Joining us now is CNN anchor Jake Tapper. He's written a brand-new, very important book about this very significant case. The book is entitled -- let me put it up on the screen -- there it is -- "Race Against Terror: Chasing an Al Qaeda Killer at the Dawn of the Forever War."

Jake, thanks very much for joining us.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: It's great to be here. How you doing? Yes.

BLITZER: I want to get to the book in a moment, but, as you know, Michael Ben'Ary was the top national security prosecutor in the Eastern District of Virginia before his firing.

TAPPER: Yes.

BLITZER: Talk a little bit about the dangers of firing experienced career prosecutors like him, both to the Department of Justice and overall to U.S. national security.

TAPPER: So what Ben'Ary wrote in that letter that he put on his door was not only that his abrupt dismissal, based on a rumor, by the way -- I mean, she doesn't even say that it's true. She says one can only assume that he opposed the Comey indictment.

Evan Perez, our Justice Department correspondent, said it's not even true that he opposed it. But in any case, the -- he said, Michael Ben'Ary, that dismissing him hurts the case against Jafar, hurts it. And, also, he said in that letter that senior Justice Department officials care more about going after the president's perceived enemies than they do about the national security of the United States.

And I have to say, as somebody that dove into this world a little bit when I wrote my book about a different terrorist being tried for terrorism in a criminal court here in the U.S., there are experts who have been in the Justice Department for decades, who keep us safer, people who would not talk to me, people who would not cooperate with me for my book, but I know from their reputations, from their colleagues how highly respected they are.

And they are either being fired or sidelined because of perceived opposition to MAGA. And that makes us less safe. That expertise is vital. It was vital for the case of Spin Ghul, the terrorist I wrote about, and it will be vital for the prosecution of Jafar.

BLITZER: Very interesting. The case of Jafar has a major connection to the case you have written about in your brand-new book, "Race Against Terror."

One of the central figures you write about is someone, as you just mentioned, known as Spin Ghul. What can you tell us about him and why his trial was so controversial?

TAPPER: So it was the first trial of its kind ever, the idea of prosecuting a foreign terrorist in a U.S. criminal court, somebody captured abroad, for killing service members in a war zone. It had never been tried before.

And this is 2011, 2012, 2013. The concept of bringing a terrorist from abroad to the United States terrorized and terrified members of Congress. They did not want that to happen. They did not want these people brought to the country. Obama was trying to -- President Obama was trying to prosecute the 9/11 plotters, and they put it in the defense bill, you're not allowed to bring these people to the country for prosecution, not just Republicans.

Democrats also opposed this. Obama signed a special waiver for this guy who remains, Spin Ghul, the only -- the only foreign terrorist prosecuted in a court in this type of situation, and it was not an easy case. But the book is about the sleuthing and all the detective work they did to prove the case, which they will have to do against Jafar as well to lock him up for what he did to those 13 service members and 160 Afghans.

BROWN: And it was just by happen chance that they even caught Spin Ghul, right?

TAPPER: Completely.

BROWN: I mean, it's such a remarkable story, and you came across it in a pretty remarkable way.

TAPPER: So I'm at my son -- this is three years ago. I'm at my son's 13th birthday party, where -- it's a paintball party, and since it's out in rural Virginia, I just had refreshments for the adults so they could just come, hang out while the kids beat each other up in the woods and then leave.

And one of the dads starts talking to me and says, oh, I know so and so from "The Outpost," a different book I wrote about Afghanistan. And I said, yes, that book was really tough to write because the military keeps really crappy records and they don't share them.

And he said, tell me about it. And then he starts telling me this incredible story. I don't -- he wasn't pitching a book. He was just telling, I think, the best story of his career, which is this guy, this terrorist gets picked up on an Italian cruise ship in the middle of the Arab Spring, a bunch with -- along with a bunch of refugees.

[11:50:03]

An Italian Green Beret notices he has a bullet wound, asks him how he got it. He says, I'm in al Qaeda. I got it killing Americans, fighting Americans in Afghanistan. They take him into custody, but the Italians can only hold him for a little bit of time, like a few months.

So the Americans have this race to prove the case against him so they can bring him to the United States to prosecute him. And if they don't, the Italians will put him in a refugee camp and he will walk out of that and do his life's goal, kill as many Americans as possible.

So the book's about the sleuthing under pressure that these prosecutors and FBI agents did. And it was just such a fascinating story. I said, so has anybody written about this?

BROWN: Yes, sure.

TAPPER: And so the lesson for reporters is, pay attention at parties.

BROWN: And -- yes, I was going to say, birthday parties can sometimes be the best place to find sources and stories.

TAPPER: Well, also, you know. Your husband's a veteran. So I bet he's got like a lot of veteran friends that also have good stories also.

BROWN: He does, but he won't let me -- he won't let me probe. He's like, Pam, stop it with the journalism.

TAPPER: Well, you can just say, what's the best story? Tell me the best story, and then let them volunteer. And you will get a book out of it.

BROWN: OK. Well, there you go. And you're a testament to that.

Jake's new book, "Race Against Terror: Chasing an Al Qaeda Killer at the Dawn of the Forever War," is out now.

Jake Tapper, you are the busiest man I know. Thank you for being here with us.

TAPPER: It's so great to be here. You know I love the show.

BROWN: Jake will be back, of course, later today for "THE LEAD."

BLITZER: Excellent book.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: Thank you. Thank you so much.

BROWN: And, by the way, you have a big interview coming up. You're going to be speaking to House Speaker Mike Johnson...

TAPPER: Speaker Johnson.

BROWN: ... at 5:00 p.m. Eastern. No shortage of things to talk about with him.

TAPPER: No. And good job with the mayor this time.

BROWN: Oh, thank you.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:55:33]

BLITZER: Breaking news. We're learning that authorities in California have just made an arrest in the case of the deadly Palisades Fire that ravaged parts of Los Angeles back in January.

BROWN: All right, let's go straight to CNN's Josh Campbell -- Josh.

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, a significant development here.

I'm hearing from a law enforcement source that, after this monthlong investigation, an arrest has been made. I went along with the ATF when this fire was being investigated, and they told me that these are so difficult to investigate because the evidence of what caused the fire could quite literally go up in flames.

But we are now hearing someone has been arrested. Authorities will be releasing details on that, the identity and the charges here momentarily.

BROWN: All right, Josh Campbell, big development. Thanks so much.

BLITZER: And, to our viewers, thanks very much for joining us.

"INSIDE POLITICS WITH DANA BASH" is coming up next right after a short break.

BROWN: Have a great day.

[12:00:00]