Return to Transcripts main page

The Situation Room

Trump Arrives in Egypt for Summit on Gaza's Future. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired October 13, 2025 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Parliament that felt like it could have gone on for hours, Wolf, and went on for more than one hour, is the president is relishing this moment and using this. He came into office wanting to end the war in Gaza. He definitively believes that that war has ended. Obviously, we've seen others be more cautious about that and whether or not it's definitively over, but that is how he's kind of walking into to this meeting with these other world leaders.

And so, it'll be interesting to see what that power dynamic looks like in the room, what they talk about, and also whether or not the president brings up further normalization deals, something that he has certainly been seeking and hoping that an end to the war in Gaza could get him as he moves forward from this.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: We're showing our viewers some of the pictures from the tarmac as Sharm el-Sheikh, Air Force One has been coming in, and we'll see what the president has to say. You know, it's amazing, the reception that President Trump received here in Israel, and you and I were watching very closely, was amazing, so powerful, so supportive of President Trump.

And now, he's meeting with these European leaders, Arab leaders. If he goes to those countries, he's not going to get that same kind of reception that he got here.

COLLINS: Well, and those are world leaders who also wouldn't lavish praise on Netanyahu in the way that President Trump did. He called him a great wartime leader. He said he's a little bit difficult to deal with sometimes, but he said that's why he's such a great leader. That's certainly not the sentiment that some of these other world leaders have had towards Netanyahu.

They've moved to recognize a Palestinian State, a largely symbolic move, but certainly one that angered the Israelis, and certainly was something that the White House broke off with and disagreed with, even though when you look at that 20-point peace plan, around point 19 or 20, it calls, if the conditions are met, for the eventual pathway to a creation of a Palestinian State.

We haven't really heard the president articulate his view on a two- state solution. He was asked about it the other day. He said it's up to the leaders in the region. And so, watching this moment, where other world leaders have clearly said where they lie on that, will be notable.

And so, the president's reception here, you saw as he was getting on Air Force One and leaving here, Wolf, he was -- there was this huge crowd at the end of the stairs. That's not typically what happens. Normally, the president's dropped off and he walks up Air Force One.

There was a huge crush of people around him, including Jared Kushner, Steve Witkoff, Ivanka Trump, the secretary of state was here, the defense secretary. And so, watching that moment play out as he's going into this to finalize what is really a 24-hour trip to the Middle East for the president.

BLITZER: Yes, it's amazing what's going on. And it's only just beginning right now. And as you correctly point out, in that 20-point peace plan, correct me if I'm wrong, I was reading that perhaps Trump is even online down the road, down the road, to support what's called a two-state solution, Israel living alongside a new State of Palestine. But correct me if you think I'm wrong.

COLLINS: Yes, no. And there were a few different versions before it finally came out. There was one that circulated during the United Nations General Assembly that had the wording differently than the one that was released when President Trump was at the White House with Prime Minister Netanyahu on that day in terms of what that was going to look like. And the language is basically like, you know, if there is reforms to the Palestinian Authority, if Hamas disarms, if we get to that moment, then it could lead to the pathway for the eventual creation of one.

But that language is really important to a lot of the leaders that the president is about to sit down with, because that is something they firmly believe in. We've heard that from the Saudi Crown Prince, for example, and others. And so, the White House is very aware of that, Wolf.

BLITZER: We'll see what happens on that front as well. Don't go too far away. We're going to be needing you. Brett McGurk is joining us right now. Our global affairs analyst who used to work in the White House and the NSC, was involved in negotiations in the Middle East on several very sensitive issues. Where do you see things moving from here, Brett?

BRETT MCGURK, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST AND FORMER MIDDLE EAST AND NORTH AFRICA COORDINATOR, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL: Well, Wolf, first, I think it's important to step back, as you've been covering all morning. The release of all hostages, all living hostages in Gaza is a truly momentous moment. And the fact that this deal was done with Israeli forces actually still controlling a significant portion of Gaza just shows that Hamas was under such pressure and really capitulated on many of its core demands.

But also, I thought President Trump laid out in that speech that he's very committed to his full 20-point plan. And that means no Israeli annexation of territory, a lot of really important statements there, I think, for the kind of right-wing nationalists in Israel. But he also said Hamas must disarm. We need to demilitarize Gaza. And that gets to this important summit here in Sharm el-Sheikh, because to get that moving, you need to know what countries are willing to contribute troops to this interim security force. What will be the rules of engagement? What will be the command structure? That has to start moving now. Who will be on this interim governance structure for Gaza? Similarly, what countries will be supporting that? And also, Wolf, the long-term reconstruction plan, this is going to be a decade in the making.

You know, I'm reminded a little bit, Wolf, of the Battle of Mosul in northern Iraq, when ISIS was holed up in Mosul. That battle went on for a year. Much of the city was totally destroyed. It took a decade to rebuild. It's actually kind of coming to fruition now. But that took a global coalition of 80 countries, massive resources. So, that kind of starts in the summit in Sharm, but it's going to be years and years ahead.

[10:35:00]

And one important thing that I think Kaitlan just said, you'll see an inside-out focus here on Gaza, Palestinians, Israelis, but also outside-in. I thought the president was very clear. He is going for expanding the Abraham Accords. And I tell you what, Wolf, I think there's a very good chance of that happening, particularly after Israel has a new election next year. They'll probably have a new government. But over the next couple of years, a very good chance of a significantly expanded Abraham Accords community recognizing Israel.

BLITZER: You say that, but several of these Arab countries that have not joined the Abraham Accords, which were negotiated during the first Trump administration, Jared Kushner played a significant role in doing that, creating formal, real diplomatic relations between Israel and several Arab countries. Countries like Saudi Arabia and others are saying they're willing to expand the Abraham Accords, but only if Israel begins the process of supporting what's called a two-way state solution, Israel living alongside a new state of Palestine.

And in all of the speeches that Prime Minister Netanyahu, at least, is giving, he's making it clear he opposes any State of Palestine. You heard it at the U.N., and you even heard it today in his remarks.

MCGURK: Wolf, you're right, it's not going to happen with this current coalition in Israel. But there will be an election, and I hope Israel has a more unity, broad-based government. But you're right, you have to have a political horizon towards a Palestinian State. That is in President Trump's 20-point plan.

You know, just one footnote of history here, Wolf. Honestly, on October 6 of 2023, we had a Saudi delegation in my office at the White House talking about this process, and talking about the importance of the Palestinian component of that process. And we were making a lot of progress on it, and the attacks from Hamas, the invasion into Israel the next day, obviously blew that agenda off the horizon.

I think now, I honestly do believe the region will start to get back to it. It's not going to be immediate. But that trend line, it's still a direction of travel in the region. You hear it from the leaders. But yes, you have to have a significant component there for the Palestinians and a political horizon.

Difficult to do with this current Israeli configuration and this coalition, but I'm looking ahead here over the next couple of years, and I really do believe there's an opportunity. When you put into place all that's happened over the last year, knocking out Hezbollah, the 12-day war in Iran, a very significant strategic needle mover in the region, the fall of Assad, and everything that's happening in Syria now, and now with some hope in Gaza with the war winding down and a new beginning there.

So, you put the pieces together, there's an opportunity. But this is the Middle East, Wolf. You know better than anybody, this will be extremely difficult. There will be setbacks. There's spoilers kind of everywhere you look. But I think if the administration here can keep on this agenda, and you look kind of ahead over the next few years of Trump's second term, I do think there's a lot of opportunity here.

BLITZER: I will say this, elections in Israel -- here in Israel, are scheduled for next October, a year or so from now. They could be earlier if the government collapses. There could be early elections. But there's no doubt, at least in my mind, and correct me if you think I'm wrong, that the effusive praise that Prime Minister Netanyahu got today from President Trump, who is extremely popular here in Israel, not just with Prime Minister Netanyahu's supporters, but the opposition as well, because he managed to bring all the remaining living hostages, for example, back home. All of that support that he gave to Netanyahu politically here in Israel is certainly going to help him.

MCGURK: I would never count out Bibi Netanyahu, Wolf. And, you know, he will run for another term. I think where his maneuvering room is just so limited is he has this very narrow coalition. And he has these very extreme members of the coalition. He used to kind of joke with us, and we would deal with him sometimes, that he's the most liberal member of his coalition. Of course, he's a very conservative, obviously, Israeli politician, head of the Likud Party.

But I -- look, Israel has gone through this traumatic two years. As the president said today, and I thought he was good to speak to Israelis this way, Israel is here forever. You're stronger than ever. It's now time to bridge from war to peace. And ultimately, Israel will have a new election, and I'm hopeful that they can have a broader base government, because to go through this with such a narrow governing coalition makes everything much more difficult, and the country really needs to pull itself together here and seize some of these opportunities.

[10:40:00]

BLITZER: You make very good points, as always. Brett McGurk, thank you very, very much. Kaitlan, let me get your thoughts. Wrap this up for us. How significant this upcoming meeting that's about to begin in Sharm el-Sheikh in Egypt with these world leaders, European leaders, Arab leaders, the president of the United States. Netanyahu is not going to be there, even though clearly President Trump wanted to come, but he decided -- Netanyahu decided not to go. COLLINS: Yes, and obviously, it has been quite some time before -- since the president of Egypt actually had a phone call with Prime Minister Netanyahu. So, that, in and of itself, was revelatory earlier today when we heard that President Trump had initiated and brokered that phone call between the two of them and even inviting Netanyahu to the summit, which he was not initially invited to. So, obviously, we'll be watching this moment since Trump's speech was not just about Israel, but the broader region and his broader ambitions here for his remaining time in office and what that's going to look like.

And Wolf, I want to just mention, Trump came into office wanting to end the war in Gaza. That was his number one goal when he came in. And we have just confirmed from a source familiar that on this Friday at the White House -- obviously, he's returning to Washington tonight -- he is expected to host Ukrainian President Zelenskyy as well. And that is what he has talked about ever since Thursday night, that that is the war that he thought would be the easiest to end that has been the most difficult as he has faced these conflicts abroad.

And so, it does raise questions about what the president's mindset is on Ukraine right now in this moment, because just yesterday, he was talking about sending them those Tomahawk cruise missiles that Ukraine has asked for and sought. The president wasn't ruling it out yesterday. He didn't say he made a decision to do so, Wolf, but he was saying that maybe he would call President Putin and say that he is considering giving those to Ukraine, which would obviously change their strategy and their ability on the battlefield. And so, that's a key moment to watch. It is a week full of foreign policy for this president.

BLITZER: Yes, if President Trump manages to secure some sort of ceasefire, some sort of end of hostilities in Ukraine, that would also be a huge achievement for him. And that's what he wants. There's no doubt about that. We'll see how this meeting with President Zelenskyy goes later in the week. Kaitlan, excellent work as usual. Thanks very much.

We quickly want to go back to Nic Robertson in Sharm el-Sheikh. I take it that President Trump's motorcade is approaching where you guys are. Is that right?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, Wolf. They'll be passing pretty close to where we're at right now, going into that conference center with the awaiting world leaders, Emmanuel Macron of France, Keir Starmer of the U.K., the German chancellor, Merz, Giorgio Maloney, the prime minister of Italy, Pedro Sanchez, the prime minister of Spain, the emir of Qatar, the Turkish leader, President Erdogan will be there. Saudis will be there. Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman expected. The Jordanians expecting the king here. The president of Indonesia. Pakistan will also be represented there as well.

These are the powers. These are the economies that President Trump has been talking about that are, in his mind, going to help underwrite whatever comes next, whatever details emerge. These are the countries he is looking to to help do that. The Armenians, the Azerbaijanis were also invited here, of course, President Trump helping those two countries earlier on this year to sign a historic, in their own context, peace deal as well.

So, even the members in that room who may not have a stake in necessarily financing what comes out in the terms of the peace plan next, they are countries that have benefited from now establishing a peace. And so, you know, their presence perhaps more metaphorical. Azerbaijan, of course, a very close partner with Israel in many ways. They buy many of their own weapons systems from Israel. Their presence in the room will be the -- will help signify the sort of aims and goals that there is an arduous negotiating process to bring about a peace. And that has happened in terms of the ceasefire. But then you have to implement it. You have to keep talking to each other. And you have to have a mechanism to put in place.

Interesting that British Prime Minister Tony -- British Prime Minister Keir Starmer's National Security Adviser Jonathan Powell, who was so instrumental 20 plus years ago in the U.K. bringing about a ceasefire in Northern Ireland and a peace agreement there, bringing his experience into play here in terms of the disarmament decommissioning that Hamas is expected to undergo in Gaza.

The pieces of this puzzle, though, nothing perhaps more challenging and thorny than establishing the International Stabilization Force, not just how large it is, not just which countries they're drawn from, the question, do they have U.N. backing? What mandate do they have? What will be their remit on the ground?

[10:45:00]

And critically, for any of those individual soldiers stepping into the sand and the broken concrete and twisted rebar inside of Gaza, what are their rules of engagement? If a gunman appears at the end of the street, what do they do with him? Do they let him go? Do they apprehend him? Do they take their weapon? Do they shoot at him? If he shoots at them, what do they do? These are typically the ways that U.N. and stabilization forces have found themselves in harm's way in the past.

And we can think here in the very recent past, the U.N. Deployment Force, UNIFIL, on the northern border of Israel inside of Lebanon have found themselves caught in the crossfire, Hezbollah hiding out behind U.N. bunkers, Israel striking at Hezbollah, U.N. troops getting harmed in the way, all of that is the history that comes into the table here, comes into the discussion. But the most important thing, taking the momentum of phase one, translating it to the momentum of phase two.

So, the first things I expect we're going to hear when these leaders speak will be praise for what President Trump and his team have achieved. The signing, that will be perhaps the moment that visually encapsulates what's been achieved across all of today and perhaps sets in motion what can be achieved in the coming months, Wolf.

BLITZER: Very impressive what potentially could happen. Nic, stand by. We're going to get back to you, the president's motorcade getting closer and closer to that Red Sea Hotel, one of the luxurious resorts of Sharm el-Sheikh.

Brett McGurk, I think, is still with me. And I want to just get your thoughts, Brett. You think this meeting, this summit with these top European leaders, these top Arab leaders, the leaders of the major moderate Arab countries, the leaders of the NATO allies in Europe, do you think it's going to result in some truly historic new adventure?

MCGURK: I wouldn't go that far, Wolf. I think usually a summit like this sets the kind of -- the course, the direction, they're directional. And I think it's important for the president to lay out a few things. I think, as Nic just said, we need countries, including those around the table, to contribute resources, some to contribute troops, interim security force, some to contribute reconstruction resources, financing. It's going to be a massive Herculean effort over a period of years. I think a summit like this sets that direction. But I would not expect any kind of definitive, definitive announcements here.

But look, the president -- one thing that matters in that part of the world, Wolf, where you are standing, is power. Power really matters. And President Trump right now is demonstrating the power of the American presidency. He is coming to Egypt and basically convening all the leaders of the region and of Europe and other allies. It's a significant moment. And it's important, again, to set the direction. Hey, we're in this together. It's going to take a long time. And let's keep moving.

BLITZER: All right. Brett, I want you to stand by. Nic Robertson is there in Sharm el-Sheikh getting ready to cover this historic meeting that's about to begin. Very significant meeting as well. What's your sense there, Nic? And you've covered these stories. I know one thing for sure, once the president shows up at this beautiful hotel in Sharm el-Sheikh, and I've been to Sharm el-Sheikh, he's going to be very impressed. He loves these kinds of resorts, it reminds him of what he's seen and created in Florida. And he's going to say this is really the potential for future tourism. He's going to be very, very impressed by what he sees in Sharm el-Sheikh.

ROBERTSON: Yes, and right at the steps at the beginning of the red carpet when he got off of Air Force One was Abdel Fattah el-Sisi, the president of Egypt, there to greet him. And the two men already have an affinity. President Trump has piled praise on President Sisi in the past.

The -- President Sisi in Egypt will be wanting to demonstrate exactly that, that he has the gravitas and the power himself to bring together and create a venue where the last phase -- where the first phase of the ceasefire was hammered out between the negotiators over, what was it, three or four days of rounds of different talks. Finally, Steve Witkoff, Jared Kushner coming in at the table there, really sort of giving the momentum to push all the way through, that he as host has something to bring here. He's expected to give a speech. President Trump is expected to give a speech as well.

Look, we know President Trump's style of speech. He will use the platform to try to cajole and win over and play to the better senses of the audience around him and to try to use that as his personal moments of interaction with them collectively. When they're all in the room, they're all looking at each other. They're all wondering, you know, who's going to be the person that would dissent with President Trump? Probably none of them particularly wants to do that.

[10:50:00]

So, this is the moment where President Trump has them as an audience, tries to win them over a little more for the concessions he wants. What is clear, he wants -- President Trump does want to be able to tell the audience in the United States, that the United States is not financially underwriting whatever happens in Gaza, that it is not getting engaged in an overseas war by having United States troops on the ground. These are clearly very important domestic messages. And the people in the room here in Sharm el-Sheikh will be the ones who are filling that gap financially, militarily, diplomatically, the front line on the ground in Gaza, Wolf.

BLITZER: And we just saw the president -- we see the president right now. He's just walking in. He got out of the limousine and he's being received there at that beautiful resort in Sharm el-Sheikh. And he's going to go into these meetings. There you see him right there. No reporters are nearby, so they can't shout any questions as they normally would do.

Clarissa Ward is here with me. You've got the leaders of France, Britain, Germany. You've got the leaders of Jordan, Saudi Arabia, others who are there. This is a significant meeting right now. And as I keep saying, I don't know if it's going to happen, but potentially there could be a major breakthrough right now.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think that's very much the hope. This is already a historic day. And by convening all these different world leaders in Sharm el-Sheikh and having that level of commitment, which we've really seen borne out over the course of the last week, to implement the next phases in this 20-point plan, clearly the goodwill is there. Clearly the momentum is there.

But obviously, the devil is going to be in the detail, Wolf. And there are still many details to be worked out. For example, we heard President Trump talking in his speech in the Knesset about how Hamas will be disarmed. Well, OK, how is that going to happen? What is the mechanism that will be put in place to make that happen? Who will fill the security vacuum in those parts of Gaza where the IDF has already withdrawn from?

We've seen fighting already between Hamas and various different clans on the ground, particularly in northern Gaza. And so, there is now an enormous amount of work to be done to try to iron out the details. What does this international stabilization force look like? How many troops does it comprise? From which countries? What is their mandate? Where will they be stationed and faced? How do you facilitate that desperately needed surge of aid, which we have seen begin, but which really needs to hit an entirely new level? And then, the longer questions for -- of longer-term questions. So, clearly, there's an enormous amount that needs to be hammered out. And everybody I have spoken to says, listen, it's clear that we are sort of building the plane and flying it at the same time. But the one surge of optimism that I think you see in all of this is, first of all, that President Trump is absolutely committed to the fact that this war is over.

And secondly, more broadly regionally, you do see that the momentum, the energy, the focus of this mission is really shared by so many. It's just going to be a question of keeping that momentum going, particularly when you will inevitably run into hurdles and roadblocks as you try to work out those details that will be so important.

BLITZER: But as you know, President Trump's 20-point peace plan for Gaza calls for the creation of what he calls a board of peace, which he will head and will consist of other countries that will introduce troops to make sure that there is real peace that develops in Gaza and potentially expands in other parts of the Middle East right now, the board of peace. And I just think that he's very sincere. He's very committed to that. Let's see if he gets that off the ground.

WARD: Well, exactly. And let's be clear, this idea of the board of peace and there has been discussions about having former Prime Minister Tony Blair involved. Not everybody in the region is so enthused --

BLITZER: Like he is?

WARD: -- by the idea of this. They like the idea of the U.S. underwriting and pushing and being a forceful part of it. But it's very important, particularly for those Arab countries that are participating in this plan to see that Palestinians are empowered to take over governance, that there is a clear path to self- determination, that there is a clear path to a Palestinian State. And these are the types of things that we haven't heard yet.

You hear people here talking about -- or I should say, you hear people in the region talking about Tony Blair and the baggage of the Iraq war and the sort echoes of a neo-colonialist mandate. That is not necessarily going to fly well.

[10:55:00]

And so, there will have to be a great deal of care and effort made in terms of the messaging of this to make this feel inclusive and to make it feel that the Palestinian people are a central part of it, and not just bystanders, as their future is written without them being part of it.

BLITZER: Before I let you go very quickly, I know you spent a big chunk of today over at Hostages Square here in Tel Aviv speaking with a lot of folks who got -- thousands of Israelis were there and they were so excited once all of the Israeli hostages were freed, brought back to Israel. What was it like?

WARD: It was an extraordinary moment, Wolf. Honestly, people were gathering there from 4:00, 5:00 in the morning, tens of thousands of people who really felt that this was a homecoming for them as well. They felt that it was closing the chapter on this very dark period.

And there was this extraordinary moment when you saw suddenly the helicopters with some of the hostages who were being transported to the Ichilov Hospital, which is very close to Hostages Square, and the crowd just erupted into cheers. And you could really feel the sincerity of the moment and the historic nature of the moment.

They waited 737 days, Wolf. They were out there day in, day out, week in, week out, tirelessly campaigning to bring those hostages home. And today, for the first time, they can finally say that all the living hostages are back home in Israel, Wolf.

BLITZER: Amazing day indeed. Very historic, very emotional, Clarissa Ward, as usual, thank you very, very much. And we're going to have much more on all the breaking news. Our special coverage will continue right after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: All right. I want to interrupt right now. The president of the United States is speaking with President el-Sisi of Egypt right now at the beginning of this meeting. I want to listen in.

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: -- governors that have no idea what they're doing, but they don't have crime. I ask about crime, and they almost don't even know what I'm talking about. So, it's a great tribute to this man. He's done a fantastic job in bringing this country together, and the United States is with him all the way. Thank you. All the way. It's an honor to be with you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sir, what will Egypt's role play in the peace process here?

TRUMP: He played a very important role. And they had a very important role with Hamas. In fact, the general was right here, was very instrumental because Hamas respects this country, and they respect the leadership of Egypt. So, we had -- he played a very important role. I appreciate it very much. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President Trump, in Israel just now, you were talking about a possible Iran peace deal. You said, we are ready when you are. Is that the ultimate goal with today's signing, to get --

TRUMP: No. Not Iran, but I think Iran will come along. They've been battered and bruised, and, you know, they need some help. They have big sanctions, as you know, tremendous sanctions. I'd love to take the sanctions off when they're ready to talk. But they can't really survive with those sanctions. Those sanctions are very tough. But at some point, they're going to say, we want the sanctions off. We're going to end up with peace.

I think Iran is going to be fine. I know so many Iranian people. They're great people. They're smart, great, great people, engineers, lawyers. I mean, they're academics. But they took a big hit. And, frankly, if we didn't hit them with the nuclear, I don't think you would have been able to have this incredible -- this deal, this once- in-a-lifetime deal. Nobody's ever said anything like what's happening today.

And countries have all come together, all different countries. Some liked each other, some didn't. Most didn't. And they've all come together. Every country has come together. And, by the way, Iran did put out a statement, you know, that they support this deal very wholeheartedly. So, that was, in itself, something. But, no, I think they want to -- that's all I do in my life. I make deals. And they want to make a deal.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now that the living hostages have been returned, can you please tell us what the next steps are?

TRUMP: Well, they're going and looking for bodies. It's a pretty gruesome task. And they know where numbers are, as you know. I guess five or six are in yet now. But they're looking for bodies. They know the areas. And they search bodies out. And they --

[11:00:00]