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Hegseth Says Ukraine to Get More "Firepower" from U.S.; South Carolina Reports 5 More Measles Cases; Scammers Stealing Millions Using Crypto ATMs; New Warning from Air Traffic Controllers. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired October 15, 2025 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth is in Belgium meeting with NATO officials making new promises about the United States and European allies' commitment to the war in Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Firepower. That's what is coming, we expect, and is coming from NATO. You get peace when you are strong. Not when you use strong words or wag your finger. You get it when you have strong and real capabilities that adversaries respect. And I believe that's what NATO is doing. I believe that's what the Pearl Initiative is. So, our expectation today is that more countries donate even more, that they purchase even more to provide for Ukraine to bring that conflict to a peaceful conclusion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: All right. Let's go live now to CNN senior international correspondent Fred Pleitgen in Berlin. Fred, Hegseth said these NATO commitments to Kyiv will, quote, "translate into capabilities." Do we know what he means there?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly one of the things that he means is that NATO purchasing U.S. weapons to then give those to Ukraine. That, he says, is one of the really important things. But it generally also, of course, means that NATO or many NATO countries have adapted their spending goals, have now pledged to spend about 5 percent of their GDP on defense.

Pete Hegseth, secretary of war, spoke later at that NATO summit. Again, I was just listening to that. And he said that this was about turning, as he put it, goals into guns. So, that means that NATO countries increase their capabilities. But as part of that new spending, some of the weapons -- some of the money that they spend weapons on also goes to Ukraine. That is that Pearl Initiative that he was talking about.

Now, one of the things, Pamela, that looms very large over that NATO summit that's taking place in Europe is the question of whether or not the U.S. in the not-too-distant future might give Tomahawk cruise missiles to the Ukrainians. The NATO secretary general, Mark Rutte, was asked about that at a press conference earlier today and he said that he really couldn't comment on that directly. He said that NATO was very happy about this meeting that's going to take place between Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and President Trump on Friday in Washington.

However, he said that any sort of deals or any sort of commitment to give Tomahawk missiles to the Ukrainians is a purely bilateral issue between the United States and Ukraine. It's certainly something that the U.S. and the U.S. president would need to decide, Pamela.

BROWN: All right. Fred Pleitgen, thank you so much. Just ahead right here in the Situation Room, it was considered eradicated 25 years ago, but now measles cases are making a comeback. We'll get a doctor's advice to parents concerned about getting their kids vaccinated. And then later, new car prices hit a record high. We're taking a closer look at why.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:35:00]

BROWN: Happening now, more than 100 unvaccinated children in South Carolina are quarantining as a measles outbreak there grows. State health officials have reported five more cases after people were exposed to the virus in a school setting. South Carolina has seen 16 measles cases this year, 12 directly linked to this outbreak.

Joining us now is Dr. Lina Wen. She's an emergency physician and was Baltimore's health commissioner. Hi, Dr. Wen. So, what do you expect to see happen now? I mean, has the Pandora's box been opened here?

DR. LEANA WEN, CONTRIBUTING COLUMNIST, THE WASHINGTON POST, FORMER BALTIMORE HEALTH COMMISSIONER AND EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN: Well, we saw what happened in Texas, where in Texas and in neighboring states there were more than 700 cases, more than 100 people being hospitalized. This just this year, this year in the U.S., we've exceeded a 30-year high when it comes to the number of measles cases. And all of this is happening because the vaccination rate is not high enough.

Measles is one of the most contagious respiratory diseases. The measles virus can linger in the air for up to two hours, after someone who is infected leaves the room. It's estimated that about nine in 10 unvaccinated people, if they're exposed to somebody with measles, will contract it. And so, I do fear that when we have pockets of the country where the vaccination rate is low and people don't have immunity, that we will see this virus spread further.

BROWN: What is the risk to someone who is vaccinated against the measles as this outbreak seems to grow?

[10:40:00]

DR. WEN: Yes, this is a very good point, Pamela, because I think there's some people who will think, well, I've had measles or I'm vaccinated, therefore, this doesn't affect me. The good news is the MMR vaccine, the measles, mumps, rubella vaccine, does provide very good protection. Two shots means that you're fully vaccinated, 99 percent protection against the measles virus. And that means that if you're fully vaccinated, against infection, which is extraordinary. One shot provides about 93 percent protection against infection. That's great. But of course, there's still the chance of a so-called breakthrough infection. And there are individuals who still need to worry, including older individuals, including, of course, babies who are too young to get vaccinated, children who have not yet gotten two shots, and people who are immunocompromised, who either may not be able to get the vaccine or for whom the vaccine may not work as well.

And so, I think this is the reason why we all try to get vaccinated, because this is about protecting those who are not able to be vaccinated, are incompletely protected, and also knowing that the more virus is out there in the community, the more likely it is that even vaccinated people could contract the disease as well.

BROWN: So, what is your message to those who are hesitant to get vaccinated or are choosing not to vaccinate their own child?

DR. WEN: Well, I would say two things. The first is that the MMR vaccine has been approved and used in the U.S. since 1971. There is no new evidence or science somehow pointing to it being unsafe. In fact, we know that generations of people have taken the vaccine and that this is our best protection against very serious diseases like measles that can cause one in 20 people who have measles get pneumonia. One in five people end up getting hospitalized. One to two in a thousand end up dying. And so, this is a really serious disease.

The second thing I would say is talk to your pediatrician or your family doctor. These are the people who know you well, who know your family well, who can address the specific concerns that you have. I think it's normal for every parent to want the best for our children. And it's normal to have concerns, but make sure that you speak about your concerns to a trusted health professional and address each of your questions, because at the end of the day, this is about protecting your child and also protecting everybody around us too.

BROWN: All right. Dr. Leana Wen, thank you so much. Coming up right here in the Situation Room, a special report how scammers are stealing millions in cash from people through crypto ATMs. We'll be back.

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[10:45:00]

BROWN: Turning now to a Situation Room special report, CNN investigates a growing scam with a modern twist, where police often can't do anything to help the victims. Well, you've likely heard of crooks who trick people into believing they have to pay off a debt or face legal trouble, and to fix the problem, they need to pay cash that's often routed into the scammer's account. Well, now more and more Americans are being told to feed their cash, usually thousands of dollars, into a crypto ATM.

CNN reviewed more than 700 criminal cases and complaints with ties to these ATMs, and our senior investigative correspondent Kyung Lah shows us how the scams unfold, and how the scammers tried to steal money from her.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, no, no, no, no.

KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): You are watching a victim get scammed -- one of thousands of Americans caught in a growing global crime spree that's no secret to police.

OFFICER: This is the police department.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't care.

LAH (VOICE-OVER): Or even store clerks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of people have been scammed recently.

LAH (VOICE-OVER): From Georgia --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody on the internet, some scam caller told him to do this.

LAH (VOICE-OVER): -- to Massachusetts --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did they tell you to do?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Take $31,000.00 out and then put it into a Bitcoin.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, no.

LAH (VOICE-OVER): -- Texas.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know there's an elderly lady feeding thousands of dollars into the cryptocurrency machine.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please, I have the bank on the phone and I'm in danger. This is Chase Bank.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. No, you're not, ma'am.

LAH (VOICE-OVER): -- and Ohio.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How much money have you already sent to them?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's $10,700.00

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jesus Christ, oh man.

LAH (VOICE-OVER): I even talked to one of these scammers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You need to withdraw $9,500.00 from your account.

LAH (VOICE-OVER): And you'll see how he tried to steal ten grand. LAH: This is a scam. You know it and I know it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why does it seem like? Am I talking to the reporter?

LAH (VOICE-OVER): In all of these cases, these machines called crypto ATMs become the getaway car for the scammers who prey on victims like Gus Cason.

GUS CASON, SCAM VICTIM: That's when I stuck them $100.00 bills, it would prompt you for everything that come up and I had him on the phone, too.

LAH: Had you ever seen this before?

CASON: Never been here before. Never been here after.

LAH (VOICE-OVER): Just outside Cedar Rapids, Iowa is where Gus Cason calls home. Age 71, a retired union worker and super fan of the band Nickelback. Two years ago, as he was recovering from a stroke --

CASON: I got a phone call. Well, he told me he was president of the bank. I said, now you tell me. I want you to swear that you're not a scam. I swear I'm not a scam and all that. He convinced me. He was good. He was good. I just had a stroke. I wasn't thinking right at all.

LAH (VOICE-OVER): The scammer told Gus that he would be arrested unless he withdrew $15,000.00 in cash and deposited it in that crypto ATM. It looks like a normal ATM, but a crypto ATM is different, put in cash and it converts it into cryptocurrency in an instant. Victims like Gus have lost about $240 million so far this year, says the FBI, double the pace of last year.

CASON: I should have known better. I should have known better. I was stupid enough, I fell for it.

LAH (VOICE-OVER): The scammer took off with Gus' cash in the form of cryptocurrency. But the crypto ATM company also made money from the transaction. Our investigation found the companies that operate crypto ATMs profit off the fees and markups, often at 20 to 30 percent that they charge on transactions, scam or legit. And when police have seized the scammed cash out of the ATMs, the crypto ATM companies hit back hard in court to get that cash back, which is what happened to Gus Cason.

[10:50:00]

MAJ. CHAD COLSTON, LINN COUNTY, IOWA SHERIFF'S OFFICE: This is our evidence processing room.

LAH (VOICE-OVER): Major Chad Coltson and his deputies at the Linn County Sheriff's Office managed to recover the $15,000.00 in cash that Gus had put into that crypto ATM as evidence in a crime.

LAH: How confident were you that the victim would get that money back after you took it out of the machine?

COLSTON: So, we were very confident.

LAH (VOICE-OVER): His confidence was short-lived. Bitcoin Depot, the company with the most crypto ATMs in the U.S. fought in court to get the $15,000.00 back. The company points out its machines, like many crypto ATMs have multiple on-screen warnings, alerts of scams and requires that customers agree that they're only sending money to their own accounts. So, in court, Bitcoin Depot won.

COLSTON: We ended up getting a communication from Bitcoin Depot. They said it was a glorious day, gentlemen, when can we come get our money which was our victim's money. A multi-million-dollar company is overjoyed that they get $15,000.00 and our victim is, you know, hurting. I mean, that's their life savings.

LAH (VOICE-OVER): Bitcoin Depot has used tough tactics to stop police from seizing money for evidence like threats to immediately litigate or suspending fee refunds in entire states if a single officer tries to seize cash. Bitcoin Depot even sent an Amazon gift to mock one police department, a copy of the U.S. Constitution with a note calling the seizure of a scam victim's money a Fourth Amendment violation.

After we reached out to Bitcoin Depot about these messages to police, the company told us the messages were unacceptable and the employee responsible is no longer with Bitcoin Depot.

LAH: What do you think, Gus, that everybody seemed to get money, but you who saved that money?

CASON: You know, Bitcoin had no business getting that money at all. I mean, really, when -- especially when it's a scam.

LAH: Do you think that's fair?

CASON: Well, hell no.

LAH (VOICE-OVER): Lawsuits from attorneys general accuse the top three crypto ATM firms of profiting from scams and not protecting customers. Iowa's A.G., more than half of all money taken in by Bitcoin Depot in Iowa over three years came from scams. Washington, D.C.'s A.G., at least 93 percent of deposits over several months from Athena Bitcoin machines came from scams. Athena Bitcoin tells CNN it strongly disputes the allegations in the complaint and says it has strong safeguards against fraud. Bitcoin Depot tells us, we do not profit from scams, and the vast majority of our customers use our kiosks for lawful purposes. The company adds, if it can't stop the transaction, it reviews every potential scam case individually for possible fee relief or refunds.

But we spoke to nearly a dozen victims who were tricked by scammers while using Bitcoin Depot machines, and only one said she got a fee refund.

LAH: These scammers are so convincing that a lot of the victims actually say it's almost as if they're hypnotized. They are fully convinced that they're going to get in trouble if they don't insert all of this money into a crypto ATM. We actually spoke to a scammer on the phone. He tried to steal $10,000 from me, and it wasn't until I told him that I was a news reporter that he hung up.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Wow, what a report. Thank you so much. Kyung Lah for that. Coming up right here in the Situation Room, air traffic controllers warn that the government shutdown is putting a strain not just on their staffing but also on your safety.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:55:00]

BROWN: Happening now, sticker shock at the dealership. Kelley Blue Book reports that the average cost of a new vehicle is more than $50,000. CNN's Matt Eagan joins us now. Wow, that's a first for car prices. What's behind it?

MATT EAGAN, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Yes, Pamela. Look, there's a lot of different factors behind this. It's really been a perfect storm, including the president's tariffs. More on that in a sec. Just a little bit more context here. Average transaction cost for a car, a new car in September, up by 4 percent year over year. That's not like the monster increases during COVID, but it is the biggest increase in two and a half years. And keep in mind, that's just the average price. A lot of cars sell for a lot more. If you're looking to buy a full- size car, it's nearly $60,000. A full-size pickup, $66,000 on average. And a full-size SUV, over $76,000.

So, why is this happening? Well, Kelley Blue Book says that, yes, tariffs are contributing to the rising cost of building and selling cars. It's not just those auto tariffs, it's the tariffs on car parts and the tariffs on critical components like steel, aluminum and copper that car manufactures need.

Now, another factor here is the fact that the EV tax credit went away at the end of September as a result of the president's so-called one big beautiful bill. And so, not surprisingly there was a rush to buy EVs ahead of the end of that $7,500 tax credit.

In fact, Kelly Bluebook found that the EV market share was a record- high of nearly 12 percent during the month of September. But perhaps the biggest factor here is that carmakers, they're just selling more expensive cars these days. Those are the ones that are more profitable to make. The $20,000 car, that's basically gone extinct. And so, a lot of cost-conscious consumers, they then priced out of the market, right? A lot of them, they're buying used cars instead. And to the more affluent buyers are buying more cars.

I do think --

[11:00:00]