Return to Transcripts main page

The Situation Room

Trump Confirms Authorization of CIA Action in Venezuela; Government Shutdown Enters Day 16 With No End in Sight; Federal Judge Says All Agents Involved in Chicago Immigration Operation Must Have Body-Worn Cameras. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired October 16, 2025 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:00:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, publicly authorizing CIA operations in Venezuela, President Trump now intensifying efforts to crack down on migrant and illegal drugs. Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro is now responding.

And investigating flooding disaster, I'm going to speak to a Texas state lawmaker about this new push for accountability following the devastating Texas floods at Camp Mystic.

And later, landmark legislation gutted, the Supreme Court Justices seemed poised to weaken the Voting Rights Act drastically. So, what impact could this have across the country if it happens?

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Stopping mass layoffs. A federal judge is now telling the Trump administration it must stop laying off more than 4,000 federal employees during the government shutdown.

New charges, we're just learning new details about the man accused of starting those devastating Palisades wildfires in California, is now facing another indictment.

And medication shortages and closed aid routes. Palestinians are struggling to get necessities in Gaza as the dispute over deceased bodies escalates. The head of an organization working to get food and supplies into Gaza will join me live.

Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer with Pamela Brown, and you're in The Situation Room.

New this morning, President Trump confirms a truly extraordinary move. He has publicly authorized the CIA to operate very sensitive, highly classified information inside Venezuela, covert operations, I should say, the Trump administration has already acknowledged at least five strikes on alleged drug boats in this region of South America.

This is Defense Department video right now of the U.S. military action, and it's all part of the U.S. pressure on the regime of the Venezuelan president, Nicolas Maduro. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I authorized it for two reasons, really. Number one, they have emptied their prisons into the United States of America.

We have a lot of drugs coming in from Venezuela, and a lot of the Venezuelan drugs come in through the sea, so you get to see that. But we're going to stop them by land.

Also, I think Venezuela's feeling the heat, but I think a lot of other countries are feeling the heat too.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: CNN National Security Correspondent Natasha Bertrand is joining us right now. Natasha, what else do we know about these CIA covert operations that the president has now publicly expressed information about inside Venezuela?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Wolf. Well, as my colleague, Zach Cohen, and I reported last week, these are authorizations that the president gave the CIA earlier this year, and they essentially authorized the agency to carry out covert action and lethal targeting of targets really across the region. And that does include inside Venezuela.

Now, it's unclear at this point exactly what the CIA, of course, is going to be doing. Usually, these operations are extremely shrouded in secrecy. It's very unusual in and of itself that the president even publicly acknowledged that he had given the CIA these new authorities.

But one of the big questions I think is going to be, is the CIA now authorized to conduct activities aimed at pressuring Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro, or are they authorized to carry out operations that are more narrowly targeted at going after these drug cartels that the administration has said is its number one priority in trying to combat the flow of drugs coming into the United States? For example, is the CIA going to be authorized to carry out regime change activities, or are they just going to be focused on targeting and perhaps eliminating some of these drug cartels in and around Venezuela and in the Caribbean?

This is very significant though because obviously the administration is quickly ramping up its operations, militarily, anyway, around the Caribbean and around Venezuela. Just yesterday, we saw a real show of force by B-52 U.S. bombers that were flying along the coast of Venezuela for roughly four hours.

[10:05:03]

Wolf?

BLITZER: All right. Natasha Bertrand with the latest information, thank you very, very much. Pamela?

BROWN: All right, Wolf. Let's continue this conversation. Joining us now is Alex Plitsas, a former Pentagon official and senior non- resident fellow at the Atlantic Council. Alex, thank you for speaking with us.

How unusual is this, a president publicly confirming a what's supposed to be a covert CIA operation and says it's considering further strikes?

ALEX PLITSAS, SENIOR NON-RESIDENT FELLOW, ATLANTIC COUNCIL: Yes, I mean, it's no secret that the tensions are escalating between the U.S. and Venezuela, as was just mentioned by Natasha, you know, with the military buildup in the area, which is overt, right? You've got a naval armada that's been built, marine expeditionary unit, and fighter jets that have been relocated to the area, and then the show of force yesterday.

But as you mentioned, these are normally covert operations, right, therefore, they're not discussed. That's the purpose of that happening in that fashion. So, in this particular case, the president's obviously sending a message.

I think there are some implications for that. You know, leftist dictators in South America will use, you know, the CIA boogeyman as an excuse for every negative thing that happens. And that's just kind of the playbook. So, this will feed into that narrative and will help play up some propaganda inside Venezuela that everything that's negative is connected to that. So, that's part of the problem, in addition to now eyes on trying to figure out what exactly the CIA is doing.

BROWN: Right. I mean, how could publicly announcing and impact the work of the CIA inside Venezuela?

PLITSAS: So, I think it would largely depend on what's being done, right? So, I think there's a general suspicion, obviously given rise in tensions that, you know, the agency is involved in some way and operations on the ground. This just confirms suspicions, right? But now to your point, people will be looking. So, if there's counterintelligence services in Venezuela, their sensors are heightened, right? So, that's the reason these things are usually kept quiet so that way there's not a warning to the counterintelligence services that something is afoot. But with tensions rising, it's sort of expected to a certain extent. So, it didn't reveal anything super sensitive in terms of specifics, but enough to give the adversary a heads-up.

BROWN: The president has justified the military strikes on alleged drug boats by declaring drug cartels unlawful combatants. He hasn't showed the evidence to prove it. What is your view on this? Does he have the authority to do this? You've heard some Republicans back him in this, saying under Article 2, he has the authority to repel invasions, but, you know, again the administration hasn't showed the evidence about the targets here.

PLITSAS: Right. So, in this particular case, as it relates back to a finding, right, which would be the document the president would sign off on granting authorities to do certain activities under the law that the CIA would be allowed to conduct, which could include lethal. When there's a finding, there is oversight that comes with that. So, it's not free rein to do whatever you want. It'll come with oversight from what we call the gang of eight. So, it would be the speaker of the House and the minority leader, Hakeem Jeffries, right? It would be Leader Thune and then, you know, Leader Schumer in the Senate. And then you'd have the chairman and ranking member of the House and Senate Intelligence Committees looking at it.

So, there's at least, you know, four Democrats and senior positions who would've oversight of what's going on from the minority standpoint, and then also the majority on the Republican side. So, those four will be expected to look into it. And it could also be that this was done to utilize existing authorities under CIA, you know, that are granted, we now have narco-terrorist connections, so you have counter-narcotics authorities that the executive can leverage, as well as terrorism authorities that are reserved for designation. So, it gives the president more leeway and movement.

BROWN: So, a lot of Americans might be watching this and thinking, wait, is the U.S. a war with Venezuela right now, or headed to war with Venezuela? What do you say to that?

PLITSAS: So, I mean, a lot of the activities are below the threshold of war. This is sort of we call the gray space between peace and conflict, right, where you're doing shaping operations ahead of time. So, that could be intelligence collection activities that the CIA traditionally does. It could be covert action, which was mentioned, in some form could be anything from political to, you know, paramilitary operations. It could any of that could fit in there, so I'm not going to speculate and put anything sort of at risk. Not that I, I know anyway. And then, separately, the military is sort of doing the same thing with collection and preparation for any potential strikes and planning for any contingency operations.

So, it is usually short of war. We have seen some strikes on boats there, but those are seen as attacks on what they're calling, you know, the narco-traffickers, so non-state actors. In this particular case, it sounds like the actions directed at Venezuela as a state. So, the actions today have targeted these narco-terrorist groups.

But if you look at sort of the chain of events, it's been quite interesting. So, you had the president declare the terror -- excuse me, the narco-traffic groups in area, including in Venezuelan, some of the gangs as terrorist organizations, and then subsequent statements were made linking the Venezuelan government, the Maduro regime, to those groups, also after an illegitimate election in which Maduro basically stole the presidency, he's not a legitimately elected leader in the eyes of the world, particularly the United States. And then you see the military buildup. So, it's been one thing after another building over the last six months.

And, you know, comments from inside the administration sounds like, you know, Secretary Rubio's also acting as the national security adviser is helping to drive a lot of the policy here.

[10:10:01] BROWN: All right. Alex Plitsas, thank you so much. Wolf?

BLITZER: All right. And still ahead federal layoffs paused. What a judge is now saying about the Trump administration's efforts to cut tens of thousands of jobs during the government shutdown.

And later, caught on camera, workers in Illinois run to escape a collapsing grain elevator. You'll want to see this.

Stay with us. You're in The Situation Room.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Happening now, it's day 16 of the federal government shutdown with no end in sight.

[10:15:01]

According to the U.S. Treasury, the government shutdown may cost the U.S. economy as much as $15 billion in lost output a week. Democrats are holding firm. They won't support a funding measure unless Republicans extend the subsidies for health insurance plans under the Affordable Care Act. They're set to expire at the end of the year.

Last night, CNN hosted a town hall with two of the most progressive members of Congress, Democratic Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and independent Senator Bernie Sanders. They say Democrats won't accept a short-term extension of the healthcare subsidies. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): I think the Republicans are catching on that you can't throw 15 million Americans off of the healthcare they have.

They're playing a losing hand. They are going to come to the table finally and address the healthcare crisis that they've created.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: And joining us here in The Situation Room is David Chalian, CNN's Washington bureau chief and political director. David, Senator Sanders says Republicans are playing a losing hand right now in the healthcare crisis. First of all, do you agree?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF: Well, the polling shows that the Democrats have a bit of an edge with the American people right now. But let's be clear, there's no winning hand here right now, the government shut down. The losing hand is being held by the American people because they're not getting government services, federal employees are blocked from work and the like.

I think it's a little too early to say who will win this battle politically, but Bernie Sanders sounded a little hopeful there to me, perhaps he was wish casting, that Republicans are ready to sit down and negotiate. I don't believe that that is true yet. They are still demanding that the Democrats pass this continuing resolution to open the government and then they're offering to sit and negotiate. So, I don't see these two sides in the same place yet.

BLITZER: Yes, good point. I want to play some more sound from that CNN town hall last night about the shutdown that's locked right now still in a stalemate, day 16, as we know. Here's one sampling of someone worried that government employees could lose everything the longer the shutdown continues. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What protections or emergency actions can be taken to prevent these workers and their families from losing their homes during this time?

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): Well, thank you so much for your question. Particularly as a TSA employee, I represent LaGuardia Airport, and so, yes, I know very, very well all the hard work that you all do and put in. And --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, ma'am.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: And you all deserve a dignified workplace, you deserve a safe workplace, and you deserve the paycheck that you are working for.

The speaker of the House and the Trump administration refuses to even have a negotiation. They refuse to even pick up the phone and talk about this.

This is not acceptable. This is not normal. And what is normal is for us to negotiate. When one party wants the votes of another party, you negotiate, you come to a compromise, and you pass a bill. That is schoolhouse rock, and that is how things should be.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: So, David, does that answer the question or is it reverting to what's described as the blame game that both parties are leaning into?

CHALIAN: Yes, I mean, it doesn't answer the question directly, obviously, and there is a blame game going on here, no doubt.

The other thing that Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez said that was really interesting and made my ears perk up is Kaitlan Collins had sort of pressed her, what does it take for the Democrats to actually open up the government here as the Republicans are asking them to do, and Ocasio-Cortez said, Wolf, it's going to take the House to pass legislation, the Senate to pass it and the president to sign it into law, meaning actually legislate on these healthcare subsidies. The Republicans have made no indication whatsoever that they're interested in doing that before the government opens. So, I see as still a complete deadlock. Now, as you know, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's vote is not actually needed to open up the government. She's in the House. Majority rules there. It's just whether Democratic counterparts in the Senate, specifically moderate Democrats, will also demand such a high bar, that actual legislation pass to deal with the healthcare costs they're talking about prior to giving their votes to open up the government.

BLITZER: It's that continuing resolution that CR passed the House, but it hasn't yet passed in the Senate. That's why the action is in the Senate right now.

CHALIAN: Without a doubt.

BLITZER: David Chalian, as usual, thank you very, very much. Pamela?

BROWN: All right, Wolf. Breaking news just into The Situation Room, a federal judge is ordering all agents operating in Chicago to wear are body cameras. We're going to have details on this just ahead.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:20:00]

BROWN: Breaking news, a federal judge issuing a major expansion for her order concerning federal agents involved in immigration operations in Chicago. She says all of them must have body cameras, all the agents there, and then they have to keep them turned on while they're deployed throughout the city.

So, I want to bring in CNN Law Enforcement Correspondent Whitney Wild. So, Whitney, clearly, this judge is concerned. What exactly prompted this?

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pamela, over the last several weeks, what we've seen is that members of the press, peaceful protesters have been subject to deployment of chemical agents during what are, you know, largely peaceful protests out at the Broadview ICE facility.

[10:25:00]

This really ramped up when a local reporter here, a CBS reporter says that she was pepper balled while sitting in her car outside this ICE facility in Broadview, which is about 30 minutes west of Chicago. After that happened, the union representing journalists filed a lawsuit in federal court to push a judge to say that these federal agents cannot use chemical munitions against members of the press or for peaceful protestors.

A judge granted that temporary restraining order and in a two-page order laid out conditions where federal agents were not to use force against people who were peacefully protesting, they were not to use chemical munitions against members of the press or people who were peacefully protesting. What we saw on Tuesday here was a flare up between federal agents and the public after federal agents got into a chase and a car crash as they were chasing two people that DHS says were illegal immigrants and were targets of an enforcement operation.

Again, that chase prompted members from that community to come out. It got quite tense, Pamela, with members of the community throwing objects at federal agents. The Chicago Police Department responded to try to do crowd control. During that event, federal agents deployed chemical agents against the crowd. That included Chicago police officers who were not prepared. 13 of them were exposed to these chemical agents detonated by these, again, federal agents who were on scene.

The judge today brought in the parties to say that she had serious concerns about what she's seeing, and she's very concerned that her restraining order is being ignored. Let me read you a quote. The judge, Sara Ellis, says, I'm a little startled, frankly, that since Thursday when I entered the temporary restraining order last week, I'm getting images and seeing images on the news, in the paper, reading reports, where at least from what I'm seeing, I'm having serious concerns that my order -- about my order being followed.

She reiterated that she wants all of the agents who are participating in Operation Midway Blitz, this big enforcement operation, she wants them to ensure that they have body cameras on, they need to be recording, again, and then she really dialed in on something that has been, you know, a big challenge here, Pamela, where what the public is seeing are tactics that the judge said, you know, would be expected at the border, not in an urban setting, not these high-speed chases.

And she says the Chicago Police Department has policies for how to police in an urban setting because the dynamics are different. The physicality here, the public, the buildings, this is all very different from how these things play out at the border. And she said this is the reason the Chicago Police Department has policies in place. She's concerned that ICE and these other federal agencies are not tailoring their tactics to the realities of an urban setting and putting people at risk. Pamela?

BROWN: All right. Whitney Wild, thanks for that. I want to bring in our senior legal analyst, Elie Honig. How big of a deal is this, Elie?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Pam, this judge already made clear that she has concerns about the legality of the tactics being used by ICE to police these protestors. Last week, this federal judge in the Northern District of Illinois issued an order saying that ICE is not to use non-lethal projectiles, like pepper balls or chemical irritants, like tear gas, in policing this area.

Now, what's happened today is the judge has said, well, I've seen media reports since then that suggest my order may not be observed properly by ICE. And so now the judge is calling the parties back in and has ordered ICE agents to wear body cameras.

I think the response we're going to hear from the administration, first of all, we know the administration has taken issue with some of the media images, claims they're misleading or not in proper context, but I think the larger issue in response we're going to hear from the administration is this exceeds a judge's authority. A judge cannot micromanage the field operations of dozens or hundreds of ICE agents.

So, I think that's the argument that's going to play out in front of this judge. The judge wants to have the parties back in court within a week in order to work this out.

BROWN: All right. Whitney Wild, Elie Honig, thanks so much. Wolf?

BLITZER: And just ahead, landmarks civil rights legislation could soon change at the hands of the U.S. Supreme Court. We're looking at what's really at stake for the Voting Rights Act and the truly profound impact it has had since its passing.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:30:00]