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The Situation Room

Interview With State Rep. Drew Darby (R-TX); DOJ Set to Indict John Bolton?; Federal Judge Orders ICE to Wear Body Cameras. Aired 11- 11:30a ET

Aired October 16, 2025 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: To try to save people's lives in Gaza and elsewhere, for that matter, as well.

KATE PHILLIPS-BARRASSO, MERCY CORPS: Thank you.

BLITZER: Thank you very, very much -- Pamela.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: The next hour of THE SITUATION ROOM starts right now.

Happening now: immigration crackdown escalation, new videos showing agents tackling and arresting a U.S. citizen in Chicago. Look at this. What led up to this moment and what we're hearing from the 19-year-old who was thrown to the sidewalk.

BLITZER: We're also following breaking news, why a federal judge is now ordering agents involved in immigration operations in Chicago to wear body-worn cameras.

Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer with Pamela Brown, and you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

Happening now: A federal judge in Chicago is requiring all agents who are part of the Trump administration's immigration enforcement operations to wear body cameras. This comes as the Trump administration is ramping up its immigration crackdown in Chicago, causing tension, serious tensions, with the community to boil over.

CNN has just obtained a brutal new video that shows a 19-year-old man who says he is a U.S. citizen pinned to the ground by a Border Patrol agent earlier this week. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SHOUTING)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) out of here. (EXPLETIVE DELETED)

(SHOUTING)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) out of here. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's American.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's a citizen! He's a citizen!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why is he running?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's a citizen! He's a citizen! That's my brother-in-law.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got to get the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) away from me. You don't know what's going on, so get the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) back. get the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Back up! Back the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) up!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's my brother-in-law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: This chaotic scene unfolded after this incident, Border Patrol agents crashing into a vehicle as part of an immigration enforcement operation. So, crowds gathered at the site, eventually leading to federal agents using tear gas.

Former Homeland Security officials and immigration experts tell scene and the aggressive tactics are fueled by intense pressure to meet deportation goals. And law enforcement sources say these methods have also led to confrontations between DHS and agents from other federal agencies working on joint task forces.

I want to bring in our Whitney Wild from Chicago.

All right, there is also this ruling from this judge. We had just mentioned it. Tell us more about what this judge is saying.

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Well, let me just give you the context here and why this matters.

So, over the last few weeks, what we have seen is these confrontations between protesters and federal agents throughout the city, but mostly at the Broadview ICE facility. This is about 30 minutes West of Chicago. And what -- we have seen, peaceful protests there for weeks, I mean, really since late August at least, Pamela.

And within the last month, those protests turned into clashes with federal law enforcement. We were there at one of those protests where federal law enforcement was peppering the crowd with pepper balls. This came to a head a few days later, when federal agents were accused of pepper balling a WBBM reporter, the CBS affiliate here in Chicago, pepper balling her in her vehicle, causing her to be unable to breathe, have to jump out of the vehicle.

It was a very dangerous situation for her. After that happened, the union that represents journalists here filed a lawsuit in federal court to put more pressure on federal agents to use more discretion when using these chemical agents. After that happened, a week ago -- a week ago today, the federal judge put a temporary restraining order on federal agents and laid out in pretty specific detail situations where they are not to use chemical munitions and not to use excessive force.

Since then, on Tuesday, there was another clash. This is the video that you're looking at here. After that crash, the video that you played earlier, federal agents chased two people they say were here illegally and that were targets for immigration enforcement operation.

The public reacted. We have seen this many times. The public crowded around those agents. DHS says and Chicago police say that the crowd began throwing objects at these those federal agents. CPD responded. At some point, as federal agents were leaving, see? There you see it right there, CPD trying to help them out, trying to do crowd control.

As federal agents were trying to leave, Pamela, they detonated again these chemical munitions. People in the crowd say there was no warning. Chicago police, if you can look closely, you will see they don't have masks on; 13 of those officers were exposed to these chemical agents by what are normally law enforcement partners in situations like this, not in their immigration enforcement action.

[11:05:13]

But, typically, law enforcement in situations like this hopes to work together to control the crowd. Instead, the federal agents detonated chemical agents, exposing at least 13 members of the Chicago Police Department.

The judge yesterday, after seeing this news, brought everybody back into court, saying she has very serious concerns that DHS is not following her restraining order, saying this: "I'm a little startled, frankly, that since Thursday, when I entered the temporary restraining order, last week I'm getting images and I'm seeing images in the paper, reading reports where, at least from what I'm seeing, I'm having serious concerns that my order is being followed."

She wants to see the field director for DHS in her courtroom on Monday. She wants to hear directly from the boss out here to find out what is going on and what measures they're taking to ensure it doesn't happen again.

Further, she is demanding that all of the federal agents who are participating in this operation, Midway Blitz, Pamela, that's this enforcement operation, this immigration enforcement operation in Chicago, every federal agent she wants to wear a body camera and it must be recording.

And I think it's important to note, Pamela, there have been other cases where we know they are wearing body cameras and they have been recording -- back to you.

BROWN: All right, I want to go through that video again, where we saw that 19-year-old being tackled by a Border Patrol agent. How did that unfold? Here's that video, Whitney, if you want to walk us through...

(CROSSTALK) WILD: You hear a little bit...

BROWN: Yes.

WILD: Yes, I'm sorry. I didn't know if we were going to -- if we wanted to let the video play out a little bit and kind of hear some of that back-and-forth.

But let me just kind of walk you through what happened. So this video was taken after that crash and chase. And the woman who took this video says that they saw that unfold, saw these Border Patrol agents run inside this Walgreens, and then they started recording so they could see the entire exchange.

She admits they were -- they were confrontational with Border Patrol, not physically, but at least in their words. Border Patrol reacted and took this man -- this is the woman's boyfriend -- into custody on the ground, again, screaming, you don't know what's happening, back up.

And that man was detained, but released later that day. The woman who took that video was saying over and over, he's a U.S. citizen. What are you doing? He's a U.S. citizen. We have no indication that he was the target of the enforcement operation.

Our understanding is they were looking for two other people. So what this video highlights is, I think, the way that the public and federal agents are reacting to one another. Everybody is tense. This is not a calm situation. These things flare up really quickly and without much without much to prompt that, Pamela.

I mean, people here are just tense. The agents are tense. The public is tense. And that is why you're seeing these flare-ups throughout the city, Pamela.

BROWN: Yes, you're seeing that firsthand there in Chicago.

Whitney Wild, thank you so much -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And the Trump administration, Pamela, is facing a lawsuit tied to a full body restraint used in deportations. Here's what it looks like. This device is called the WRAP.

The lawsuit is against Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem, acting ICE Director Todd Lyons, and the attorney general, Pam Bondi, as well as the secretary of state, Marco Rubio. The plaintiff alleges -- and I'm quoting now -- "I was chained at the hands, waist and ankles and placed on a military cargo plane" -- end quote.

A Homeland Security spokesperson told the Associated Press -- quote -- "The use of restraints on detainees during deportation flights has been longstanding standardized protocol and an essential measure to ensure the safety and well-being of both detainees and the officers, agents accompanying them. Our practices align with those followed by other relevant authorities and is fully in line with established legal standards." It is not clear whether the Trump administration has filed a response. The maker of the device told the AP the intent is not to restraint people unless they are a threat -- quote -- "That's not the purpose of the WRAP. If the deportee is a current or potential risk to themselves, to officers, to staff, to the plane, restraints are justified. If it's not, then restraints aren't" -- end quote.

The CEO of that company, by the way, told the Associated Press that they have made a modified version of the device for ICE with changes meant to allow people to be kept in during flights and long bus trips -- Pamela.

BROWN: All right, still ahead right here in THE SITUATION ROOM, Wolf, the new charges for the man accused of setting the deadly Palisades Fire that scorched thousands of buildings right near Los Angeles.

[11:10:06]

BLITZER: And, later, new developments in the urgent search for Kada Scott, the young woman who disappeared from the Philadelphia area nearly two weeks ago. What we know about the suspect now charged with kidnapping in the case.

Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:15:08]

BLITZER: There's more breaking news just coming into THE SITUATION ROOM this morning.

The U.S. Justice Department is expected to ask a federal grand jury To indict President Trump's former National Security Adviser John Bolton. Bolton has been under investigation for alleged unlawful handling of classified information.

And joining us now on this breaking news is CNN crime and justice correspondent Katelyn Polantz. And CNN senior legal analyst Elie Honig will join us as well.

Katelyn, let me start with you.

First of all, tell us what you can about this major new development.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Wolf and Pam, what we know at this time is that the Justice Department and the prosecutors out of the district of Maryland are expected to go to a grand jury this afternoon and speak to those grand jurors about their wish to indict John Bolton.

What we know from a bunch of different things, including a search of his home and his office less than two months ago, is that Bolton has been under investigation for the possible mishandling of classified material and also mishandling or keeping in an unsecured way national defense material. We don't know yet exactly what the charges would be or if the grand

jury would even approve them when they get the presentation from prosecutors today. All of that will happen behind closed doors. It is a confidential proceeding.

But we do expect the grand jury activity to take place today on this possible case, possible criminal charges of the Trump former national security adviser. My understanding from sources around this case is that Donald Trump has been quite angry for some time at John Bolton.

Some of that is related to what he wrote in a book in 2020 after he left the Trump White House. And that is a part of the case. But the driving force of this case is a much longer investigation into whether John Bolton was writing notes essentially to himself in an AOL e-mail account he had at the time he was in the Trump White House and whether those notes contain classified information that still would be potentially unsecure.

That is something that can be charged as a crime. But there are still lots of questions, and anything can happen in court, Wolf and Pam. We do not know what the grand jurors would do here and won't know until much later in the day, if that.

The questions I have right now is not just what the grand jury would do. Will they choose to indict this case or not? Also, what would the charges be exactly? What would an indictment say against John Bolton in this climate of a Justice Department prosecuting people that we know the president wants to see prosecuted? And then what choices does the Justice Department make?

Do they make choices that would have a tinge of politics in them, such as would they ask for the arrest of a former national security adviser or just have him come to court under a summons like Jim Comey and others recently?

BROWN: All right, so, Elie Honig, take us inside the grand jury room. How does it usually play out when prosecutors seek an indictment?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: So, Pam, the two hallmarks of the grand jury are that it's secret and it's one-sided. So having been in the grand jury many times, the only people who will be in the room will be prosecutors, any witnesses who often will be the FBI agents who worked on the case with prosecutors, the actual grand jurors, and then a court reporter, a stenographer.

Typically, what you would do as a federal prosecutor in front of a grand jury is, you call usually a summary witness. And, again, that will usually be the lead FBI agent who worked the case. That one witness can then give the grand jury the whole investigation. You're allowed to use hearsay, so the FBI agent can say things like, I reviewed certain documents, I interviewed certain witnesses, and here's what I found.

When the prosecutor is done putting on that evidence, they will typically present a proposed indictment to the grand jury. They will say there are however many counts in this proposed indictment and then instruct the grand jurors on what the specific elements are of each of those potential crimes.

At that point, the prosecutor and the witness and everyone else leaves the room except for the grand jurors. The grand jurors then vote. Important to know, in the grand jury, the legal bar is low. All they have to find is probable cause. That's much lower than proof beyond a reasonable doubt, which you need to prove at trial.

And you only need a simple majority of grand jurors to vote for an indictment, as opposed to a trial jury, of course, where you need unanimity. So that's the process that we will play out today. As Katelyn correctly said, we don't know specifically whether prosecutors will actually ask for an indictment.

Sometimes, you just present evidence and then come back a different day and ask for an indictment. If prosecutors do seek an indictment, of course, we will have to wait and see how the grand jurors vote.

BLITZER: And, usually, prosecutors can easily get an indictment, they say it's like indicting a ham sandwich, if they want to do so. We will see what happens in this particular case.

Elie Honig, thank you. Katelyn Polantz, thanks to you as well.

BROWN: All right, up next here in THE SITUATION ROOM, we're talking with one of the Texas lawmakers assigned to a brand-new committee meant to investigate that deadly flooding that killed 136 people this summer in Texas.

[11:20:04]

We will be back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Happening now: A group of Texas lawmakers is leading a new investigation into the circumstances surrounding that catastrophic July 4 flooding that killed more than 130 people in Central Texas.

Many of the victims were young girls at Camp Mystic, now called Heaven's 27. I spoke this summer with the parents of Janie Hunt, who died in the floods.

[11:25:07]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNE LINDSEY HUNT, MOTHER OF FLOOD VICTIM: It was just something no parent should ever have to go through, seeing their daughter like that, and seeing other parents screaming seeing their girls. This is the one thing we can do to really honor her and honor what she would want. And that's for kids to love camp and for kids to feel safe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So, the -- they're one of several families pushing for camp safety legislation. That was then passed. Joining us now is Republican State Representative Drew Darby of Texas.

He was just appointed to that new investigative committee probing the flooding.

Thank you for coming on.

So, as you know, Governor Greg Abbott recently signed those new camp safety regulations into law. Tell us why this committee is necessary and what specifically you hope to accomplish.

STATE REP. DREW DARBY (R-TX): Well, thank you Pamela. It's good to be with you. I know you have a connection with Camp Mystic, and as we all do here in Texas, with that camping experience.

And so when I passed House Bill 1 and Senate Bill 1 in the second call special this summer and fall, we were able to state to the members of the body that this was simply the beginning. It was not the end. And what you're seeing now is a further attempt to pursue the truth, to have accountability and hopefully some closure to the families and to other families that were affected by this flooding.

BROWN: Yes, and what are you hearing from the families?

DARBY: That's what...

BROWN: What are you hearing from those families who lost their campers?

DARBY: Well, certainly...

BROWN: Go ahead.

DARBY: They want some answers. They want some answers. They want to know what happened, when it happened, how it happened, and hopefully how we can prevent that from -- similar tragedies from occurring in the future.

So they want answers, and, certainly, they deserve answers. And I want to thank the lieutenant governor of Texas and certainly speaker of the Texas House, Speaker Burrows, in their pursuit of this truth. And that's why this committee was appointed. That's why it's a joint committee with the Texas Senate and the Texas House.

And we're going to meet together to talk about all of these matters with regard to the timeline, what happened, when it happened, and what lessons can be learned to prevent further tragedies.

BROWN: Camp Mystic said in a statement to CNN that it looks forward to working with the panels and -- quote -- "helping them and the public more fully understand the facts of what happened. We hope and pray that, through this investigative process, state-of-the-art systems will be put in place to provide adequate warning and communication about flooding."

What do you say to that statement? And do you plan to call the camp owners to testify? DARBY: Well, I take them at the word. I take them in good faith that

they want to do all those things they said, and as does the Texas legislature. We want to find out the truth. We want to find out what happened and how we can learn from that.

And so we have not heard from primarily camp owners in the process before now. We -- after the flooding occurred, there was a committee appointed. I was a part of that committee. We heard testimony in Austin, Texas, and we had a field meeting in Kerrville, and we had testimony from lots of folks, lots of stakeholders, county officials, river authority folks, emergency management folks.

But we did not hear from the camp owners themselves. And so this is an opportunity for those camp owners after the legislation has been passed. And there now is a plan in place that we have to have emergency evacuation plans for each camp. There's a new licensing process put in place. We have rules being promulgated by Texas Department of Human Services.

So we're moving along with the idea that, before camping begins next season, next summer, that we will have these safety measures in place.

BROWN: Right, but are you going to call the camp owners to testify?

DARBY: You know, I'm not the chairman of the committee. I have talked to Chairman Meyer, whose heads the House side of this committee. That's up to the chairman, Senator Flores and Chair Meyer.

But I would anticipate that we will call anybody and everybody in order to give us a full and complete picture of what happened.

BROWN: Yes.

DARBY: So I hope they come and testify. I hope they're forthcoming. And I hope they share that willingness in the statement you just read to be forthcoming and open and transparent. What we all want here, I feel certain, is to protect these campers.

Everybody understands the importance of camping and lives of young -- our young people.