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The Situation Room

Trump Meets With Australian Prime Minister; Interview With Former U.S. Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta; Interview With Rep. Lisa McClain (R-MI). Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired October 20, 2025 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Do you really believe that the approximately seven million attendees...

REP. LISA MCCLAIN (R-MI): Yes.

[11:30:01]

BROWN: ... who participated this weekend, according to the organizers, hate the United States of America?

MCCLAIN: Well, look at what they -- they're standing for. They're standing for communism. They're standing for antisemitism. Just take a look at the rallies, right?

This is the party of law -- the Republicans are the party of law and order. We don't believe in antisemitism. Take a look at the speakers that they have at the rally. Take a look at what they're fighting for. They're fighting to defund police, defund ICE.

They're fighting not for law and order, but they're fighting for the criminals. We stand on the side of law and order. We stand on the core principles of this great nation, which is capitalism, law and order.

And the Democrats clearly don't stand for that. So, to me, you make your own decision on that, but I can share with you where I stand on that. That's not America first, and that's definitely not capitalism.

BROWN: CNN had reporters out talking to many of the protesters. Some of the ones we had -- we talked to had very moderate views on this. They say they love America. They are very concerned that America is sliding into an autocracy.

They look at prosecutions of the president's critics, limits on press access in the Pentagon, the push to put the National Guard in American cities. And, to these protesters, that concerns them. Are you willing to consider their point of view here?

MCCLAIN: Well, of course I consider all point of views.

I'm wondering where they were when Biden was in office and the Supreme Court ruled on, hey, we're not going to pay -- pay off student loans. And then Biden said, I know the Supreme Court said that, but we're going to do it anywhere. Were they speaking out against Biden during that time? No, I don't

think so. And as it pertains to the National Guard, let's just take a look at that for a minute. You talk about law and order. Take a look at Chicago. I would think the city of Chicago would be welcoming President Trump's help.

They want to talk about over 330 murders in the city of Chicago already year to date. We haven't even had 300 days in the year. Clearly, that city has some help and needs some help. Why wouldn't you stand on the side of law and order and on the stand -- on the side of ICE agents?

And if you can't clean up your own city, why wouldn't you welcome the help? So I think these people and these people, they should -- we should all come together to give law and order to our cities to make sure our legal, law-abiding citizens feel safe in their own communities.

BROWN: I understand you -- Republicans make that argument, but it's these Americans who look at it in the totality. They are looking at that not just in a vacuum, but the other issues that I mentioned, and that is what is spurring them to want to want to protest.

But, certainly, this is a very divided country right now. You know that better than anyone, Congresswoman. And I want to get your response to what your own Republican colleague, Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene, recently said on this program.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And on that note, are you concerned about the cost of living...

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): Yes.

BROWN: ... that President Trump said he would lower?

GREENE: The inflation crushed people in the past 4.5 years, and the costs have not come down. I myself can tell you my apartment here in Washington, D.C., the electricity bill is $100 more than it was last year, because you can look at your own bill and look at costs. Prices have not come down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: That is your own Republican colleague. Rent prices are up year over year. The cost of groceries saw their highest monthly jump in nearly three years in August. Foods facing tariffs like coffee and tomatoes are more expensive. Consumer prices in August soared.

Other than gas prices, which are down, when are all the other costs of living prices going to come down? Because, as you know, that is a big concern for Americans, and it was a big factor in the election.

MCCLAIN: Absolutely. And, listen, we have a massive hole that we need to dig out, from the

COVID subsidies, to the inflation under the administration for the last four years. There is no question we are digging out of a massive, massive hole, and there's a lot of work that needs to be done.

And I agree. Gas prices are down. You need -- we need to continue to work to get the inflation down and prices down. And I think that's exactly what President Trump is trying to do with all of the deals that he's doing to put America first.

What has he done, over 70, maybe 80 now trade deals with other companies -- or countries -- excuse me -- to open up markets? This isn't a quick fix, right? The past four years dug a very deep hole for the American people. It's going to take us a hot second to get out of it.

[11:35:00]

But I have all the confidence in President Trump that he absolutely is working for the American people to get us out of that devastating...

BROWN: Right.

MCCLAIN: ... inflationary period under the last administration.

BROWN: But this administration is nine months in, and President Trump had vowed to lower prices from day one, from very early on in the administration. So at what point is it his...

(CROSSTALK)

MCCLAIN: Like you said, gas is down.

(CROSSTALK)

MCCLAIN: ... is down. I mean, we don't talk about the price of eggs anymore. Come on.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Those other areas...

MCCLAIN: ... he has done something.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: OK. All right, Congresswoman...

MCCLAIN: I mean, if there was a silver bullet to get us out of -- if there was a silver bullet to get us out of this mess that was created under the Biden administration, I have the ultimate faith that the President Trump could do it.

Unfortunately, there is a lot to unravel. And I don't think you're being quite as fair, as he has. Gas prices are down. Heating prices are down. Eggs... (CROSSTALK)

BROWN: I did say that. No, no, I am being fair.

(CROSSTALK)

MCCLAIN: Let me just finish.

But egg prices is down. What happened about that? We don't talk about that.

BROWN: Right.

MCCLAIN: So there he has made progress. So let's start with it -- right. It didn't happen overnight. We're not going to get out of it overnight.

But I will tell you what. I think the people are a lot more optimistic under this administration with President Trump, because we're on the right track. And I think, over the next four years, the stock market's up. Lookit, I think we're on the right track, and we're making progress and we're headed in the right direction.

BROWN: OK.

MCCLAIN: And that's what I think people are most excited about.

BROWN: And just to be clear, I was being fair. I was having you respond to your own Republican colleague, and I did note that those gas prices are down. But we also looked at what other areas of cost of living are impacting people, as she noted herself.

Congresswoman Lisa McClain, thank you for your time.

(CROSSTALK)

MCCLAIN: ... admit we are making progress.

BROWN: OK.

MCCLAIN: Thank you.

BROWN: Thank you so much for your time.

MCCLAIN: All right, have a good day.

BROWN: We always enjoy having you on the show -- Wolf.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: And just ahead: President Trump's new proposal to Russia and Ukraine, as Russian forces make gains on the front lines. We will update you.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [11:41:35]

BROWN: Well, earlier, I said that the Energy Department plans to furlough the vast majority of its staff today. The Department of Energy actually plans to furlough about 1,400 employees at the National Nuclear Security Administration. That's an agency within the department which oversees the nuclear stockpile of energy.

We're told fewer than 400 employees will remain on the job to safeguard the stockpile -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, thanks for that update.

Also new this morning, President Trump is escalating his feud with Colombia big time, canceling all economic aid to the country, and says he could announce more tariffs against Colombia later today, claiming the country's president -- quote -- "does nothing to stop drug production."

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They are a drug manufacturing machine, Colombia, and we're not going to be part of it. So we're going to drop all money that we're giving to them. They have -- it has nothing to do with them stopping drug production.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right, let's discuss this and more with the former U.S. defense secretary and CIA director, the former White House Chief of Staff Leon Panetta.

And, Secretary Panetta, thanks so much for joining us. This feud stems from U.S. military strikes on vessels the U.S. says the Trump administration believes to be transporting drugs to the United States. Colombia's president says an innocent Colombian citizen was killed in one of those strikes.

Much of South America, as you know, is strongly condemning these latest U.S. actions. What do you make of this?

LEON PANETTA, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Well, there's no question that what is needed here is the truth about what's going on. And, unfortunately, although the United States is striking these vessels, it has not really presented clear evidence of exactly what was on those ships and why the actions were taken.

And for that reason, I think there's a lot of concern, particularly in the Congress, that if the United States is going to continue that kind of approach, that it has to be more transparent.

BLITZER: Mr. Secretary, I'm sorry to interrupt for a moment, but the president of the United States and the visiting Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese is speaking, making statements. Then they're going to be answering some questions from reporters, I suspect.

I want to listen in and then get your reaction. Stand by.

TRUMP: Well, thank you very much.

It's great to have the prime minister of Australia, fantastic place. A lot of friends over there, and this is one of them right here. The prime minister is, as you know, Anthony Albanese, and he's highly respected, done very well in his election.

And I hear you're very popular today, right?

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: It varies from day to day, but -- with all of us. But he's done a fantastic job as the prime minister. We're here to talk about trade, submarines, lots of other military equipment, their big orders of our great military equipment. We have the best equipment anywhere in the world by far.

And, oh, you got to watch that. Watch that. You're not allowed to break that. That mirror is 400 years old.

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: The camera just hit the mirror. Ay yi yi. I just moved it up here special from the vaults. And the first thing that happens, the camera hits it. Hard to believe, isn't it? Hard to believe.

[11:45:07]

But these are the problems in life. So we're going to be here to talk about lots of different things. And we might take a few questions before, but we are discussing critical minerals and rare earths, and we're going to be signing an agreement that's been negotiated over a period of four or five months.

And it was sort of good timing that. We got it done just in time for the visit. And we work together very much on rare earths, critical minerals, and lots of other things. And we have had a very good relationship. We have been working on that for quite a while.

In about a year from now, we will have so much critical mineral and rare earths that you won't know what to do with them. They will be worth about $2. But in the meantime, we're working with Australia and other countries. They're working with us too, but other countries also on that.

But we're really working on anything having to do with military, military protection, military ships, vehicles, guns, ammunition, everything, the whole thing. We have been long-term, longtime allies. And I would say there's never been anybody better. We fought wars together. We never had any doubts.

And it's a great honor to have you as my friend. It's a great honor to have you in the United States of America. Please, would you like to say something?

ANTHONY ALBANESE, AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER: Well, thank you so much, Mr. President, for the invitation here to the White House and to -- for showing us around the improved Oval Office and for what you're doing around here as well and for the great honor as well of my delegation, saying just across the road we could have walked, but they didn't let us.

We drove all of 20 meters...

TRUMP: Yes, right.

ALBANESE: ... there from Blair House, but it's a great honor to be able to stay there.

We are great friends and we're great allies. And this is a relationship that's been forged in the battlefields of the world. We have stood side by side for freedom and democracy. And congratulations, I must say, Mr. President, on the work that you have done with the Middle East.

TRUMP: Yes.

ALBANESE: It's an extraordinary achievement. And on defense, we have already had a discussion about taking it to the next level. Our defense and security partnership with AUKUS is so important for us, and I thank you for the support that the administration are giving as well.

You have had the chief of the navy here as well...

TRUMP: That's right.

ALBANESE: ... which will play obviously a very critical role with our -- the subs and increasing the security for the region and the world. And our economic relationship is so important. The U.S. has a trade surplus with Australia, as you know, and we can continue to take what is every opportunity to improve the relationship even further and make it even stronger.

And today's agreement on critical minerals and rare earths is just taking it to the next level, seizing those opportunities which are before us to take our relationship to that next level. And it's been fantastic, the contact that we have had together, the friendship that we have developed.

TRUMP: Right.

ALBANESE: And Australians love America, and I think Americans kind of like Australians too.

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: It's true. We do.

ALBANESE: And as we go forward, I think that today will be seen as a really significant day in our relationship. So thank you very much, Mr. President.

TRUMP: Well, thank you very much, Anthony. It's an honor to sign this and we will do it now. And then we will take some questions, some good ones, I think.

OK.

ALBANESE: Well, this is an $8.5 billion pipeline that we have ready to go.

TRUMP: That's right. It's all ready to go?

ALBANESE: Just getting started.

TRUMP: And we're doing a real job on rare earth and many other things.

Perhaps I could ask John to say a few words and then we will exchange papers. But just how are we doing on your Naval purchases and all of the submarines that we're working on with Australia? How's that going?

JOHN PHELAN, U.S. SECRETARY OF THE NAVY: Thank you, Mr. President. Obviously, Australia is a very important ally of ours in the Indo- Pacific and in every battle. They have fought with us since World War I and have always been side by side.

[11:50:00]

The facility that they're building, SURF-West, is critical and very important to our ability to project power in the Indo-Pacific and work with our allies. So we're working very closely. I think what we're really trying to do is take the original AUKUS framework and improve it for all three parties and make it better and clarify some of the ambiguity that was in the prior agreement.

So, it should be a win-win for everybody, sir.

TRUMP: And the submarines that we're building for Australia are starting to really move along, right? The process is getting very exciting, isn't it?

PHELAN: We're getting better.

TRUMP: That's good. Very good. Thank you.

ALBANESE: It's going to be great.

TRUMP: Thank you very much.

Maybe we will hold this up. OK?

(APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: Thank you very much.

ALBANESE: Thank you. (CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: The AUKUS defense pact of the prime minister just mentioned, it is a critical issue for Australia.

TRUMP: Yes.

QUESTION: You haven't really spoken much about it in public (OFF- MIKE). It was a deal that was done under Joe Biden to sell submarines to Australia at a time when you're not really making enough for your own needs.

So can you tell us, have you gotten across the details of the deal?

TRUMP: Yes.

QUESTION: Do you support it and will you honor it?

TRUMP: It was made a while ago, and nobody did anything about it, and it was going too slowly. We do actually have a lot of submarines. We have the best submarines in the world, anywhere in the world, and we're building a few more currently under construction.

And now we're starting. We have it all set with Anthony. We have worked on this long and hard, and we're starting that process right now. And I think it's really moving along very rapidly, very well.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

TRUMP: Oh, it's getting -- oh, no, they're getting...

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

TRUMP: Excuse me. You're next. Go ahead.

QUESTION: China's bad behavior has really only gotten worse since the AUKUS partnership was formed. With that in mind, is the door open for Australia to get additional nuclear-powered submarines or other military capabilities not already in the deal?

TRUMP: I think China's been very respectful of us. They're paying tremendous amounts of money to us as -- in the form of tariffs. As you know, they're paying 55 percent. That's a lot of money. They never were paying anything over years and years and years.

But they were like anybody else. A lot of countries took advantage of the U.S. They're not taking advantage anymore. No, China is paying a 55 percent and a potential 155 percent come November 1 unless we make a deal. And I'm meeting with President Xi. We have a very good relationship. We're going to be meeting in South Korea in a couple of weeks. And we will see what we can do. We have a very good relationship with

China. But it's been probably a little bit like your relationship with China. They try to take advantage, but most countries do. I mean, I can say the European Union took advantage, and -- but not anymore.

We worked out a very fair trade deal. Japan, we worked out a very fair deal. South Korea, where I will be meeting President Xi, we worked out a very fair deal. And I expect we will probably work out a very fair deal with President Xi of China.

So, most of you will be with us. It's going to be very exciting. And I think we're going to work out something that's good for both countries.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: Are you interested in expediting the nuclear-powered subs to Australia?

TRUMP: Well, we are doing that. Yes, we're doing that.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: We have them moving very, very quickly.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Yes, please.

QUESTION: Mr. President, I don't think you have ever been to Australia. Have you thought about coming to Australia and trying out some of the golf courses?

TRUMP: I would. And I actually have been to Australia. And I did play one of your great golf courses. They have great golf courses there. But I have been to Australia, actually, yes.

QUESTION: Would you come again?

TRUMP: Oh, I would. In fact, I have been invited to go.

ALBANESE: Indeed.

TRUMP: And I will have to give a serious consideration. No, it's a real possibility.

QUESTION: Did the prime minister invite you today?

TRUMP: He did.

(CROSSTALK)

ALBANESE: And perhaps we could time it, it must be said, with the Presidents Cup that Australia host as well. So...

(CROSSTALK) TRUMP: When is the Presidents Cup?

ALBANESE: We will organize it.

(CROSSTALK)

ALBANESE: ... Mr. President.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Please, in the back, please. Yes, in the back.

QUESTION: Yes, Mr. President, the prime minister mentioned that there's a trade imbalance that's very heavily in America's favor.

Why does America slap such heavy tariffs on a friend and ally.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Well, we don't. Well, we do in some cases. We do in many cases, because we have been treated unfairly. But, actually, the tariffs are very light.

The one thing is, you buy a lot of airplanes, so that helps, because you buy a lot of the beautiful Boeings, the best of the Boeings. Boeing -- and, by the way, Boeing is really doing well. They have lots of orders, and they're really doing a great job. They make a great plane.

[11:55:05]

But Australia, because of its location, which is great, but one of the things dictated by that location is, you have to order a lot of airplane. So I guess we have that advantage. They need a lot of airplane in Australia and that gives us a little bit of an advantage.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: Mr. President, your secretary of war, Pete Hegseth, in his Shangri-La speech in, I think it was May, warned about the potential likelihood or threat of President Xi ordering an invasion of Taiwan.

2027 is also the year that Fleet Base West is about to start rotating those U.S. and U.K. submarines. Do you see AUKUS as the deterrent for China in (OFF-MIKE)

TRUMP: Yes, I do. I think it is. But I don't think we're going to need it. I think we will be just fine with China.

China doesn't want to do that. First of all, the United States is the strongest military power in the world by far. It's not even close, not even close. We have the best equipment. We have the best of everything. And nobody's going to mess with that. And I don't see that at all with President Xi.

I think we're going to get along very well as it pertains to Taiwan and others. Now, that doesn't mean it's not the apple of his eye, because probably it is. But I don't see anything happening. We have a very good trade relationship. We're going to have a very good -- I think, when we leave South Korea -- I could be wrong, but I think we will end up with a very strong trade deal. Both of us will be happy. I don't see that happening, no.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: Mr. President, given the trade surplus that the U.S. enjoys with Australia, would you consider lifting the tariffs that you have imposed on Australia? And can you give us any details about the...

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Yes, well, the tariffs have been amazing, because tariffs have been really a reason that I was able to settle almost all of the -- I have settled eight wars in eight months. Not bad. I have one more to go. It's Russia and Ukraine. And I think we will get there. But it's turned out to be nasty, because you have two leaders that truly hate each other.

You can't have it all, right? They hate each other beyond all else. And it makes it actually a little bit difficult. But we try -- of the eight deals, I would say because of tariffs, four or five of them were settled. It's an amazing thing, the power of tariffs in terms of our country.

But tariffs have always been used against us. We never used them against anywhere else. And now you have a president that for national security reasons and other reasons is using them. And we have become a very rich nation again and a very secure nation again.

But we have also become a nation that used that power of tariffs and the power of trade to settle five of the eight wars that are settled. I settled eight. I'm very proud of that. Nobody else has settled one. I don't think it's been an American president that settled one. I think there probably hasn't been -- outside of the two countries involved or however many are at war, I don't think there's ever been an outside country that settled a war, period.

So I settled eight in eight months. I'm proud of that. Now, in the meantime, I'm running a country that's -- right now, we're the hottest country anywhere in the world. We were dead. A year-and-a-half ago, we were a dead country. Now we're the hottest country in the world economically and otherwise.

So -- but I will say this, Australia pays very low tariffs, very, very low tariffs. In fact, Australia pays among the lowest tariffs.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Go ahead, please.

QUESTION: There's been concern in Australia that it's taken nine months to get this meeting. Have you had any concerns with this administration with its stance on Palestine, climate change, or even things the ambassador said about you in the past, the Australian ambassador?

TRUMP: I don't know anything about him. I mean, if he said bad, then maybe he will like to apologize. I really don't know.

Did an ambassador say something bad about me? Don't tell me. I don't...

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: Where is he? Is he still working for you?

ALBANESE: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: You said bad?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Before I took this position, Mr. President...

TRUMP: I don't like you either.

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: I don't. And I probably never will.

Go ahead.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: No, you went. Go ahead, behind you.

Mr. President, your secretary of the Navy said there will be some clarifications around some ambiguity on AUKUS. Can you tell us...

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Well, he will get that taken care of. These are just minor details that he will take care of.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

TRUMP: John, you're going to get that taken care of, right?

There shouldn't be any more clarifications, because we're just going now full steam ahead building.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Yes, please. Go ahead.

QUESTION: Thank you. Mr. President, are you now satisfied with Australia's defense investment or do you want Australia to invest more in defense?

TRUMP: Well, I would always like more, but they have to do what they have to do. You can only do so much.

I think they have been great. They're building magnificent holding pads for the submarines. It's going to be expensive too. You wouldn't believe the level of complexity, right, and how expensive it is.

They're building tremendous docking because they have a lot of ships and a lot of things happening. And I think their military has been very strong, very, very strong.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Over here, please.