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Jesse Jackson's Legacy; Obamacare Premiums Rising; Texas Flood Investigation. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired October 29, 2025 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: New this morning, people on Obamacare are getting their first look at next year's price hikes, as premiums are set to soar.

According to analysis by the Kaiser Family Foundation, premiums will skyrocket 26 percent on average next year. It's one of the largest price hikes since the Affordable Care Act debuted more than a decade ago, and it does not factor in the expiration of the enhanced premium subsidies.

Let's discuss what's going on with CNN correspondent Tom Foreman.

Tom, break down these new numbers for us and their connection to the ongoing government shutdown.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, a lot of people are getting sticker shock like they can't believe as we approach Halloween here. Talk about a frightening situation.

The enrollment begins on November 1. This is precisely what some lawmakers have been warning about throughout this shutdown. They're saying, look, this enrollment time is coming up, and unless this health care situation is fixed, a lot of people are going to get really hammered. And indeed, that's what it looks like is happening as we approach this enrollment time, 26 percent increase on average you mentioned there.

That's in the premiums for this, which affects tens of millions of people out there. But this is what's really important. When you mention the monthly payment expected to more than double at the end of subsidies, that's the enhanced subsidies that help people pay some of those premiums.

So let's look at a real example here. For some people out there who might have been paying $888 for their care this year, next year, $1904. You can imagine for a lot of people who don't have a lot of money, that is a real backbreaker. That's kind of a backbreaker for a lot of people who are doing fairly well. So that's the big worry here, that they're going to have this gigantic

jump in the fee. That's just one example. But if you look at the mean, the median out there for this, and then if you look at the different categories, there are some people who will lose their insurance altogether because they simply won't be able to pay it.

There will be other people who will get pounded by this, and then some other people may find a way around the edges. But, Wolf, this is really a big, big impact on a lot of folks out there who rely on this. Republicans, of course, have said through this shutdown, look, let's just get the government reopened. Then we can talk about all of this.

Democrats have basically said we have leverage now. And, by the way, the deadline is now. You need to address it now because one of the real fears is that a lot of people who have been signing up for the Affordable Care Act, or Obamacare, whatever you want to call it, at record rates that if they get pushed out now, they just won't come back. They will be scared away from the program, and they won't return.

And there will be a real cost to the health of the country on top of this fiscal cost right now -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, the impact will be serious indeed.

All right, Tom Foreman, thank you very much -- Pamela.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: All right, coming up here in THE SITUATION ROOM: His first run for the White House was more than 40 years ago, but his impact on American politics is still being felt today.

Our colleague Abby Phillip talks about her new book on Jesse Jackson up next.

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BROWN: And now to a CNN exclusive.

Camp Mystic along the Guadalupe River in Central Texas was once home to so much joy, but this year it became a scene of tragedy when 27 young girls died in the July 4 flood disaster as well, as the owner of the camp, Dick Eastland.

I have talked to numerous families of those campers and counselors about their calls for accountability from Camp Mystic. And now it's time to hear from the camp, which I should note I attended as a child and stayed in the Bubble Inn cabin, where all of the youngest victims were killed by the floods.

So joining us now for his first television interview on this since the floods is the attorney for Camp Mystic, Mikal Watts.

Mikal, we appreciate you coming on today.

MIKAL WATTS, ATTORNEY FOR CAMP MYSTIC: Good morning. Thank you for having me on.

BROWN: So, Camp Mystic has never provided a full public accounting of what happened in those tragic overnight hours. Can you just walk us through the specific actions it took after that National Weather Service alert at 1:14 a.m. warning of life-threatening flooding?

WATTS: Sure. I'd be happy to.

In fact, I think that's a great place to start because I was a little bit mystified by the comment yesterday that Camp Mystic took approximately three hours to start moving the kids. That's just not true. The first warning came through at 1:14 in the morning. There's some question as to who got it and who didn't, because, as you know, this is a very remote area with limited cell phone coverage.

[11:40:00]

But, clearly, the night watchman, a former Houston police officer named Glenn Juenke, received the weather warning or his wife did. And so let me take you through the next three hours of what happened.

Within minutes, Mr. Juenke and Dick Eastland were convening in the camp's office monitoring the return of a group of Polish immigrants who were there working in the kitchen. And they got back about 1:45. And we have correspondence showing that Mr. Eastland knew that and was communicating with people about that good news.

His son joined him about two minutes later at 1:47, and they immediately convened the ground crew and started securing equipment, started coming up with a plan at about 2:00. By 2:13, there's a photograph taken by Edward Eastland of his father and that ground crew doing that planning.

At about 2:19, we got the first information that one of the houses was having water coming in the floor, and that would be the Bug House cabin that's closest to the river. However, it appears from a photograph that I think you have, there's a large indentation, that, in effect, the water is coming off of the side of the mountain, which is behind the cabins that you're probably familiar with.

But in any event, within the next few minutes, certainly before 3:00, there was a very orderly evacuation process of 10 different camps or cabins, the Bug House, the Look Inn, the Hangout, the Tumble Inn 1, the Tumble Inn 2, the Jumble House, the Nut Hut, Chatterbox, Giggle Box, Wiggle Inn.

These mean something to you, but the bottom line is, what it means to me is they safely evacuated 166 girls during that time frame. And then Mr. Juenke ended up in a flooded cabin called the Wiggle Inn.

Mr. Eastland, Dick Eastland, ended up in the Bubble Inn, and Edward Eastland was helping girls in the Twins 1 and 2. And those were two of the three cabins where almost every one of the girls was lost. They were already in there at waist-deep water, which became neck-deep water before they got a 3:35 National Weather Service flash flood warning at 3:35. But, in any event, we have good documentation that they were there.

Mr. Eastland had made three or four trips down to the first cabin, trying to save people.

BROWN: Right.

WATTS: And he was swept away, we know, at the time. And that was because his Apple Watch showed that he was underwater by 3:51 in the morning.

And this was certainly before any evacuation. We also have Mr. Edward Eastland's Apple Watch. It shows he was underwater by 4:09. And then the flash flood (AUDIO GAP) result came about 15 minutes later.

BROWN: I appreciate you laying out all those facts. That is the most thorough accounting to date. So we really appreciate that.

Just to make sure I'm following you, so around 2:20 a.m., a counselor came in and said, hey, there's water coming into the cabin. It didn't appear to be from the river. It appeared to be from some of the rain coming down. At that point, there was an awareness of the National Weather Service alert at 1:14 a.m. because Glenn Juenke's wife received that plan? Is that correct?

And then from what Glenn Juenke told "The New York Times," the night watchman, after that counselor came in, she was told, all right, go back to the cabin, get stuff off the ground, stay put, because that's the plan. So the evacuations, according to this night watchman, didn't start until 10 minutes later, approximately.

Help us understand why evacuations didn't begin earlier.

WATTS: Well, number one, you're right about the time frame at 2:19. That's when the young lady came up from the cabin. Number two, I have done the examination of that cabin. It's clear that that water was coming in through the floor off the hill.

By that point in time, there was a situation from the standpoint of water rising everywhere. And so they organized an orderly evacuation process and literally hit house after house after house, going back from the river, saving 166 girls as they progressively got farther from the river.

BROWN: So did Camp Mystic have a detailed emergency plan for preparing and responding to flash flooding? And, if so, what specifically was that plan? Were there any drills conducted to prepare camp staff and campers for flash flooding?

Was -- as you had laid out, Doug -- Dick Eastland getting his car, was that part of the emergency plan in the event of flash flooding to evacuate campers? Just if you would, help us better understand that.

WATTS: Sure.

I think that what we learned from the prior hurricanes back in 1978, when there were people who drowned in their vehicles trying to rescue cattle and the like, as you have read, Ms. Eastland gave birth to one of her kids in 1984 during a situation where there was no way out.

[11:45:03]

And so what has been the teaching in Kerr County and across the state of Texas and by the National Weather Service and by FEMA and by the CDC is you shelter in place. That's first and foremost what you ought to do.

And I could take you through 15 videos done by Kerr County, the Upper Guadalupe River Authority and the like all telling people, do not get in cars. And for whatever you do, do not take 9-year-old girls who weigh 63 pounds on average into raging floodwaters. They're going to get washed away.

And so the teaching, not just at Camp Mystic, but at FEMA, at the CDC, at the Upper Guadalupe River Authority, is, whatever you do, don't get 9-year-olds out in the middle of floodwaters, because they will be washed away.

BROWN: But then someone might hear that and say, then why did Dick Eastland get in his car to go to try to evacuate the girls? I just want to give you an opportunity to respond.

WATTS: Well, I think, early on, the water wasn't as high, and there's this classic mentality that you can get more people out in the car than walking them out one by one.

And, obviously, his instinct was to go closest to the river and work backwards. And he was successful with respect to 166 girls. The girls that passed away, the Heaven's 27, were in cabins far off the river, far above the 100-year floodplain, I would argue above the 500-year floodplain.

But the bottom line is that this was an unprecedented, once-in-1,000- year event that nobody thought was even possible. It's never happened before.

BROWN: It was certainly historic. As you know, I have had many parents on this show covering this tragedy.

And I'm just -- I know from talking to them, when they hear you talking, they say, OK, stay in place, shelter in place, but you had these cabins that Camp Mystic itself petitioned multiple times to FEMA to remove from the 100-year floodplain. There are several different points along the way where Camp Mystic had petitioned, including when it was expanding in 2019-2020.

So I want to give you the opportunity, Mikal, to respond to the father of deceased counselor Chloe Childress when he brought this up to me yesterday. Here's what he said.

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MATTHEW CHILDRESS, FATHER OF FLOOD VICTIM: Camp Mystic knowingly, and this is in public record, removed camp cabins from the floodway and floodplains to save money ultimately on insurance premiums. This is where 8- and 9-year-old slept. This is where my daughter slept. This was not disclosed to parents.

Major flooding had happened numerous times before. Mystic claims that this was a 1,000-year flood. That is not the case. There were well- documented storms from 1932, 1978, 1985. Tweety Eastland herself was evacuated by helicopter to give birth 1987, and then now in 2025.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Did Camp Mystic try to remove cabins from hazardous flood areas and FEMA maps to save money on insurance?

WATTS: Not at all.

And before I debate the facts with him, I do want to commend that gentleman. I think he and the Camp Mystic parents of Heaven's 27 have done stellar work in alerting the Texas legislature and getting good laws passed. I have testified at those hearings in favor of it. They have. They have done great things.

With respect to the specific comment, there's not been a cabin removed since the 1932 flood, where there were two small cabins that substantially washed away in that flood because they were located on the Guadalupe River. It's called the Kettle Inn and the Chimney Rock.

There have been no cabins removed since then, nor is it correct that anybody petitioned FEMA to change anything. You have to look at the history of this. And the bottom line is, is that Camp Mystic was there before FEMA was ever promulgated by Congress. It didn't exist.

BROWN: That is true. Yes, it was...

(CROSSTALK)

WATTS: And the original -- yes, the original maps, with all due respect to the forefathers of FEMA, were kind of done on paper and crayon. It wasn't very scientific.

Now we have digital imagery. We have elevation to a 10th of an inch. We know what's actually in a 100-year floodplain. So there's two procedures, one called a LOMR, one called a LOMA.

The LOMR is if you build a dam upriver and you change the flood propensity, you would go and petition for a LOMR. That's not what happened here. LOMA is, we have got digital imagery now. Is this in fact in the 100-year floodplain? Has it ever been? And the bottom line is, is that no cabin, other than the two that were washed away in 1926, years before these people ever owned this plan, nobody has ever put one of these cabins in a LOMA floodplain. It's just not true.

BROWN: All right.

Well, I wanted to give you the opportunity to respond to that. But I also, as we wrap up, want to ask you about the partial reopening. Many grieving families, as you well know, have expressed shock about that. They say, look, in all the camps in Hill Country, Camp Mystic was the only one that lost campers and counselors. [11:50:10]

And now, just a few months in, they're announcing partial reopening, as one camper, Cile Steward, is still missing. Cici Steward, the mother of that camper, said in a statement: "Camp Mystic is pressing ahead with reopening, even if it means inviting girls to swim in the same river that may potentially still hold my daughter's body."

So why is Camp Mystic reopening when a camper is still missing? I want to allow you the opportunity to respond to that.

WATTS: As you know, Camp Mystic is upstream or upriver of every other camp in Kerr County.

As a matter of hydrodynamics, it is impossible for Cile Steward to be there. She is downriver. And I live in this area. There are cranes where the river down in Ingram is actually being dredged right now looking for her. I personally have looked for her. I employed a gentleman who was the victim of the 2015 Blanco River fires. They never found his 4-year-old daughter.

I know the pain that she's going through because my friend Jonathan McComb still experiences that pain. But Camp Mystic has offered to dredge the part above its dam and will do so if given permission. There's nothing in there. Secondly, all the other young ladies were found downriver. There is no way that she is there.

Now, as to the second issue, and that is the camp reopening, one thing that's gotten lost, is Camp Mystic Guadalupe River camp is not reopening. The camp that is opening is Camp Mystic Cypress Lake, which is seven-tenths of a mile and 2,700 feet away from the Bubble Inn cabin that you stayed in, over 3,000 feet away from the river.

It's completely apples and oranges. And Camp Mystic Cypress Lake had 15 cabins, hundreds of girls in it. Not one of them was flooded in this 1,000-year flood.

BROWN: Yes.

WATTS: It's as safe as can be, and it's appropriate that it open because of all the good things that this camp as part of the ministry to develop young Christian women in the state of Texas has done for generations.

BROWN: Listen, I was a camper there. I remember. I have the most fond memories of being a camper there. The Eastlands are beloved in the community, and so many people have nostalgia about camp.

WATTS: They are.

BROWN: But, at the same time, you have these grieving families.

And I know Cici Steward, she had been calling for the camp to just hold off on those plans. Like, let's find my daughter's body. Whether or not -- wherever her location is, to her, that doesn't matter. It's the principle of it. It's a sensitivity of it. What do you say? WATTS: Well, I can certainly understand where she's coming from.

But if it was Jonathan McComb saying that nothing could open up and here we are 10 years later, there are many, many camp (INAUDIBLE) that want this experience for their daughters. One of the reasons that Camp Mystic is so special is that in this age of girls getting caught on their phones all the time and Internet trash and the suicide rate is opening up, this is an environment of solace, of Christian leadership that's developing strong Christian girls across the state of Texas.

It's the reason these parents brought their girls back summer after summer, and that mission should continue if and when we can make it safe.

BROWN: All right. Well, Mikal Watts, let's continue this conversation. We really appreciate you coming on to share Camp Mystic's side of the story. Thank you so much.

We will be right back.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REV. JESSE JACKSON, FOUNDER, RAINBOW/PUSH COALITION: I rise to declare that I can and announce to you this day my decision to seek the nomination of the Democratic Party for the presidency of the United States of America.

(CHEERING)

JACKSON: Blacks, women, Hispanics, workers, Indians, Chinese, Filipinos, we must come together and form the Rainbow Coalition. We need each other.

(CHEERING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: More than 40 years after Jesse Jackson first ran for president, his impact on the modern Democratic Party is still being felt today.

And that's the subject of CNN anchor Abby Phillip's brand-new book entitled "A Dream Deferred: Jesse Jackson and the Fight for Black Political Power."

Abby's joining us right now here in THE SITUATION ROOM.

Abby, thanks very much for joining us. Thanks for writing this terrific book.

Jesse Jackson's message of economic populism certainly has influenced an entire generation of politicians to this day from Bernie Sanders to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez to Zohran Mamdani. How might that play in next week's New York City mayoral election, for example?

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST: Well, hey, Wolf, and thank you for having me on about this.

One of the themes of this book is whether or not the Democratic Party can or even should listen to this part of its base, where it's powered by sort of younger people, a lot of grassroots energy, and a populist economic message.

And we are seeing those themes showing up again in today's Democratic Party. One of the things about what's happening in the New York City mayoral race, for example, is this real focus on affordability and the fact that Mamdani has appeal, broad appeal, across racial and ethnic lines in this particular city.

Now, New York is an urban metropolis, and it has very different politics from other parts of America, but it seems to have been working for Mamdani in this race. And I think that one of the lessons that perhaps Democrats should have taken away from the '80s was that, even if you don't take all of the message of a candidate like Jesse Jackson and run with it nationally, it might be a mistake to ignore that kind of energy, because that grassroots energy represents something that is important for the party going forward.

BLITZER: And, Abby, tell us why you wrote "Jesse Jackson and the Fight for Black Political Power." It's really a compelling, excellent book.

PHILLIP: You know, Wolf, I think so many people remember, and you probably remember this well, "Run, Jesse, run."

I mean, Jesse Jackson was such a prominent figure, but a lot of people don't remember exactly what happened in those campaigns. And perhaps they don't remember that he came in second place in the Democratic primary in 1988. He came very close to the nomination, and he changed the Democratic Party in a lot of major ways.

He changed the rules of the party. He registered millions of voters. And he really put on the table this idea that Democrats should see themselves as a multiracial, multiethnic, diverse coalition. That's how the party sees itself now, but it didn't see itself that way at the time when he was running.

BLITZER: It really is an excellent, excellent book, Abby. Thanks so much for writing it.

Reading it just brought back a lot of memories for me. I interviewed Jesse Jackson on many occasions over the years. We always had an excellent relationship. Thanks so much for writing this history. I really appreciate it. Once again, thanks very much for joining us.

PHILLIP: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: The book is entitled "Jesse Jackson and the Fight for Black Political Power." Worth reading. Go out and get it.

And you can see Abby later tonight on "NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" 10:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

Thanks very much for joining us this morning.

"INSIDE POLITICS WITH DANA BASH" starts right now.