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The Situation Room

Interview With Sen. Tim Kaine (D-VA); Interview With Rep. Jasmine Crockett (D-TX); Trump Mentioned in Jeffrey Epstein E-Mails. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired November 12, 2025 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: The Northern Lights are on display, caused by a powerful burst of energy from the sun. Take a look at the stunning time-lapse of last night's aurora borealis seen as far south as Texas, Alabama, Georgia, and even Florida.

This is what it looked like from a drone in Conway, Arkansas. If you missed it last night, by the way, you might still have a chance. The Space Weather Prediction Center calls for an even more potent solar storm today.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: The next hour of THE SITUATION ROOM starts right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BROWN: Happening now, breaking news: Newly released e-mails show Jeffrey Epstein mentioned Donald Trump by name several times before his time in the Oval Office. CNN's brand-new reporting.

BLITZER: That's all coming up.

We want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer with Pamela Brown, and you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

And we begin this hour with the breaking news. Convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein mentioned Donald Trump by name several times in private e-mails, according to newly released documents from Democrats on the House Oversight Committee. The messages show Epstein communicating with longtime associate and convicted sex trafficker Ghislaine Maxwell, as well as with author Michael Wolff.

Trump did not send or receive any of the messages and has not been accused of any criminal wrongdoing in connection with Epstein or Maxwell. The e-mails are largely from the time before Trump was president.

BROWN: Yes, and in one e-mail, I'm reading from right here, it was dated April 2, 2011, Epstein e-mailed Maxwell -- quote -- "I want you to realize that that dog that hasn't barked is Trump."

Redacted victim "spent hours at my house with him. He has never once been mentioned, police chief, et cetera. I'm 75 percent there."

Maxwell responds -- quote -- "I have been thinking about that."

BLITZER: A direct quote indeed.

Joining us now, Democratic Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett of Texas, a key member of the House Oversight Committee and the House Judiciary Committee as well.

Congresswoman, thanks so much for joining us.

What stands out to you from these e-mails that were publicly released by the committee today?

REP. JASMINE CROCKETT (D-TX): Yes, so number one, it is clear that he knew what was going on, which I think that he's kind of alluded to that at some point in time, because the president said that he was trying to kick Ghislaine out of Mar-a-Lago, because it seems like that's where girls were being recruited from, based on information that we have.

But more importantly is that he was having conversation, he being Jeffrey Epstein, with Michael Wolff, who is writing this book or trying to put together this book. And, in real time, as Trump is running for his first presidential run, we hear or we see that he made it clear that he believes that he has leverage over Trump.

And he said that a Trump regime would basically open up is -- this is me paraphrasing. This is not exactly what it said. But, basically, it'd be a free-for-all. And as we have seen, especially in this second term, it's been a free-for-all, where Trump has absolutely pardoned some folk that we know are terrible and we are waiting on him to pardon Ghislaine Maxwell.

I think that that's coming up soon too.

BLITZER: An important point indeed.

Congresswoman, let's take a closer look at that e-mail from Epstein where he writes to the author Michael Wolff, saying this -- and it's a direct quote -- redacted victim -- the name was redacted -- "Mar-a- Lago. Trump said he asked me to resign. Never a member ever. Of course, he knew about the girls, as he asked Ghislaine to stop."

Obviously, we don't have the full context here, but I'm curious, how do you read this specific e-mail and what it means?

CROCKETT: Yes, I think that it is showing that he was well aware and he was trying to cover his tracks at that point in time.

And I think that that's what you saw from Jeffrey. Obviously, it'd be better if we could talk to Jeffrey today, but it was very interesting that ultimately Jeffrey Epstein died sitting in prison during Trump's administration.

BROWN: We had on Representative Marlin Stutzman earlier. He's a Republican. And he tried to make the case that President Trump is the most investigated person in the world, and he has not been accused of any criminal wrongdoing here. What do you make of that?

(LAUGHTER)

CROCKETT: Listen, they will do and say anything to cover themselves.

I will admit that Donald Trump has been investigated more than the normal, but he just happens to be more corrupt and more criminal than any other president than we have had. I will point out he is the only president who has been convicted of 34 felony convictions that we have ever had in the Oval Office.

So while we don't know exactly what crimes he may or may not have committed, just think of it this way. If you know that you didn't do anything, then why is it that you would be twisting members of your own party's arms trying to get them not to release it? This would be exonerating.

[11:05:07]

If you know that you are free and clear, then why not say, you know what, release the files? In fact, he campaigned on releasing the files because he didn't realize that anything that he was involved in whatsoever wasn't involved in the files.

But let me tell you something. Another thing that was said in that other e-mail that he had with Michael Wolff was, he was talking about if he wants to basically play hardball, we will make mention of the fact that he really has been on the plane.

And I don't remember if it mentioned the island.

BROWN: Let's actually put that e-mail up, just so our viewers can fully understand what it says.

I just hope the control room can put this e-mail up. It says: "I think you should let him hang himself." And this is in response to a question of whether CNN would plan to ask Trump in a town hall about the relationship with Epstein.

Epstein said: "How do we craft an answer for him?"

And Michael Wolff says in this e-mail: "I think you should let him hang himself. If he says he hasn't been on the plane or to the house, then that gives you a valuable P.R. and political currency. You can hang him in a way that potentially generates a positive benefit for you, or if it really looks like he could win, you could save him, generating a debt.

"Of course, it is possible that, when asked, he will say, Jeffrey is a great guy and has gotten a raw deal and is a victim of political correctness, which is to be outlawed in a Trump regime."

CROCKETT: Yes.

BROWN: That's the full e-mail.

CROCKETT: Yes, yes, yes.

That is clear that Jeffrey Epstein had something to hang over his head. Why else or how else could you have a debt that you are able to -- now, exactly what it was, who knows, right? And that's what we're trying to get to the bottom of.

But the fact that Trump does not want these files to be out, to me, says that he has more to hide than him actually being able to exonerate himself.

BROWN: And then the other e-mail talking about that we used initially -- I'm just trying to find that e-mail so I can be really precise here, but it talks about how Epstein is e-mailing Maxwell saying that Trump was with a victim at his house for several hours.

CROCKETT: Yes.

BROWN: This is an e-mail from April 2, 2011. Republicans were saying that that victim is Virginia Giuffre. As you know, she died by suicide. She's been very outspoken, a very outspoken victim of Jeffrey Epstein.

Here's the e-mail right here on your screen. She wrote a book, as you know, and she did not accuse him of any wrongdoing. What do you make of that? And can you confirm that?

CROCKETT: Yes, I don't know. Obviously, it's redacted who the victim is, so I won't necessarily take the Republicans' word on who it is that's redacted.

And I don't know why they would necessarily redact someone's name who is deceased at this point.

BROWN: The Democrats did that, though. The Democrats redacted...

(CROSSTALK)

CROCKETT: No, no, no. I understand.

BROWN: OK.

CROCKETT: But I'm just saying, like, our biggest concern is to actually make sure that we are protecting victims. And, obviously, she wrote a book. She told her truth. Whether or not she told everything, who knows, again, another person that we can't talk to, because as we have yet another suicide around this.

So I think that that's actually one of the things that we should talk about, is that the president has tried to call this all a hoax. I don't think you have this many people dying around a hoax. I don't think you have somebody trying to hide files around a hoax. We know that there's something there.

We know that his own attorney general had to admit that he is in the files. But they are trying to hide stuff. The only reason that we have these e-mails is because we were able to get them from the estate, not because the Department of Justice was releasing information, not because Kash Patel was releasing information, even though they have had subpoenas from the Oversight Committee for some time.

Kash Patel continues to hold back information. So I thank God that there is somebody that still respects the law and still respects subpoenas in this country. But it's not the people that are in power to do it, the people that actually conducted the investigation.

Imagine what we may discover if we got the investigatory information versus getting something from an estate.

BROWN: Well, and -- but we should also note that the head of the Oversight Committee is a Republican.

CROCKETT: Yes.

BROWN: It's Republican -- the chairman is James Comer. And he is the one who is issuing these subpoenas.

CROCKETT: Yes. Well, let's be clear about this.

BROWN: OK.

CROCKETT: This is not something that he wanted to do. This was a subcommittee. Remember, it has been the speaker of the House who has consistently tried to avoid this by shutting down the House.

So what the speaker did is, he sent us out on an early recess. But before we left, it was a subcommittee of the Oversight Committee that actually did the motion for the subpoenas. And the Democrats kept pushing, and some Republicans actually joined with the Democrats. This was not led by James Comer.

BROWN: Like Marjorie Taylor Greene.

CROCKETT: Marjorie Taylor Greene, I don't know if she's on that subcommittee.

BROWN: OK.

CROCKETT: But Nancy Mace is on that subcommittee for sure. She's actually the chair of that subcommittee. This subcommittee, the ranking member is Summer Lee.

[11:10:00]

So it was that subcommittee. So this was actually the tail wagging the dog. I just want to be clear about that. And, ultimately, the chairman had a vote that was bipartisan, that was the majority, and he had to do it.

But whether or not they have been, like, slow-rolling this, there is no question about the fact that they have. BROWN: And you have had Marjorie Taylor agree, I believe Thomas

Massie. It's been some Republicans who want the full floor vote on this.

CROCKETT: Yes. Yes, we have got four, four out of the 219 Republicans, yes, in the House. The rest of them seem to be OK with being complicit with protecting pedophiles.

BLITZER: You know, it's interesting. A CNN poll from last July showed that 50 percent of Americans were feeling dissatisfied about the amount of information released on the Epstein case.

Did that have any influence at all on your decision to make these e- mails public today?

CROCKETT: No, I mean, ultimately, what's happened is, obviously, again, we have not been getting anything from the DOJ. Instead, it's been the estate of Epstein.

And so as they have been turning things over, it takes staff time to review those documents and things like that to make sure that we have got something, number one, of value to the public. There's still additional information. I want to be clear. We have got way more than three e-mails.

But in their cursory review, they were able to say, OK, here are three e-mails that we think are of value. We do anticipate that there will be more that they will find that will be of value, they will go through the redaction process. They will also consult with the Republicans before we release anything.

So it takes a little bit of a process. But I will say, again, that the estate seemingly has been more participatory than our own Department of Justice, who we actually oversee.

BLITZER: So where do you think all of this is headed?

CROCKETT: Good question. I don't know, but hopefully it will start with the swearing-in of Adelita Grijalva, as they have been avoiding that. Again, the House was shut down over that.

I'm sure that the president has been making calls trying to get some -- one of the four Republicans that did sign on to the discharge position. I'm sure he is begging and threatening to pull -- to get them to pull their names off of there. We know that they don't want to vote.

We know that they called us in just for one day to work after we have been out since September. Again, we could be doing additional work, even if this continuing resolution passes. We should be passing our appropriations bills. That's all the continuing resolution is for is, it is in the meantime.

But, instead, it seems like they want to continue to be evasive so that they can slow-walk this subpoena actually coming down.

BROWN: All right, Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett, great to see you here in THE SITUATION ROOM.

CROCKETT: Yes.

BROWN: Thank you for your time.

CROCKETT: Absolutely.

BLITZER: You're always welcome to come back.

(LAUGHTER)

CROCKETT: Thanks.

BLITZER: Thank you very much.

And still ahead: The U.S. House is now just a few hours away from voting on a deal that potentially could reopen the federal government. Up next, we will speak with Senator Tim Kaine, one of the eight Democrats in the Senate who crossed party lines to get that bill moving.

BROWN: And Venezuela is launching what it calls a massive mobilization of its military in response to the Pentagon's own buildup of resources in the Caribbean. We're going to ask Senator Kaine about that as well up next in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:17:55]

BLITZER: Want to get back to our breaking news this morning.

The House Oversight Committee has released e-mails showing that Jeffrey Epstein mentioned Donald Trump by name multiple times in private correspondence with Ghislaine Maxwell and the author Michael Wolff. Epstein, of course, is the sex offender who hanged himself after he was charged with sex trafficking minors.

Maxwell, his accomplice, is serving prison time. Trump did not receive or send any of the messages. They largely predate his time as president and he has not been accused of any criminal wrongdoing in connection with Epstein or Maxwell.

The White House is now responding and saying that -- and I'm quoting now from the White House -- "The Democrats selectively leaked e-mails to the liberal media to create a fake narrative to smear President Trump" -- end quote.

Joining us now, Democratic Senator Tim Kaine of Virginia. He serves on the Senate Budget, Arm Services, and Foreign Relations committees.

First of all, Senator, what's your reaction to the news about these just-released e-mails?

SEN. TIM KAINE (D-VA): Well, Wolf, I'm just seeing the news, but I'm not surprised. Obviously, President Trump campaigned saying he was going to release the Epstein files and even teased that he would early in this calendar year, but he's gone back on it.

And that makes everybody wonder whether he's got something to hide. The House has been out of Washington for the last seven weeks for the pure reason that they want to avoid confronting a majority of the House that are going to order that these files be released.

So now that the House is back in, I think you're going to see moves over the course of the next few weeks that will lead to the release of the files and then the public can see them and make up their mind.

BLITZER: All of those files. What do you think will become of the Epstein files, all of them, I should say, if and when the newly elected Arizona Congresswoman Grijalva is sworn in and forces a vote on their release?

KAINE: Wolf, I'm not a master of the House procedure, which is really different than Senate procedure, but what I'm hearing is, the House will likely take this matter up either right -- probably right after Thanksgiving.

[11:20:04]

So their own procedure involves a couple of steps before you actually get to the floor vote on the discharge petition. I would expect that final action to come right after Thanksgiving.

BLITZER: I want to get to the federal government shutdown.

Thanks in part now to your breaking with other -- from other Republicans -- other Democrats, I should say, in approving the bill in the U.S. Senate, the House is now preparing to take the next step. What are you expecting to see today?

KAINE: I think there's going to be a pretty strong vote. I don't know whether it will be a bipartisan vote or not. I suspect there will be some Democrats who will vote, and that vote will put the bill on the president's desk to reopen government after the longest shutdown in American history.

And, yes, I cast that vote, which turned out to be a deciding vote. Eight Democratic votes were needed, and I was vote eight to reopen government. I was able to do that because I was able to negotiate with the White House some key protections to protect federal employees from abuse.

We were able to get full-year funding for important programs like the SNAP program that President Trump has been trying to cut. And we have a now guaranteed debate and vote on a fix to the health care system that the Republicans damaged badly with the reconciliation bill. That debate will happen probably in early to mid December.

BLITZER: They needed 60 votes in the Senate, and you helped get to that number of 60.

Hakeem Jeffries, the Democratic leader in the House, he says he doubts his members will vote yes in favor of this legislation, despite senators like yourself who broke ranks earlier this week. What happens if the bill is rejected and the shutdown goes on?

KAINE: Well, it'll be back to square one. What will the deal be that will reopen government?

You know, what Democrats want, our top goal is to fix the health care system. Many Republican senators and House members are saying, we know we need to fix some of the damage that was caused by the reconciliation bill. Particularly, we need to stop people's health insurance premiums from skyrocketing.

But the Republican position in the Senate was ironclad for 40 days: We will only talk about that health care fix once government is reopened. And we tested that red line a dozen times during the 40 days and they wouldn't back away from it.

So at some point, you can test somebody's red line, but at some point it becomes beating your head against a red line. And, meanwhile, air traffic control was getting chaotic and even dangerous. People were suffering the loss of SNAP benefits. Every day the shutdown goes on, the pain increases.

We need to open government again and then put that health care debate front and center without the background damage of the shutdown obscuring Americans' view of who's fighting for their health care and who isn't.

BLITZER: As you know, the Senate Democratic minority leader, Schumer, voted against the bill, but many Democrats are still furious with him. They say he allowed centrists to strike a deal with the Republicans that fails to prevent spiking health care costs.

Multiple House Democrats call for him to resign. Do you have confidence in Schumer's leadership?

KAINE: Yes, I do. I voted for him. He's a good leader. He delivered historic wins for the United States when he was majority leader.

Look, it's tough being a minority. It's very tough. And the notion that Chuck Schumer should be able to control or corral Senate Democrats is sort of laughable, Wolf, if you know, something about the Senate. I very much appreciate Chuck's leadership. But I don't need his permission to do what's right for Virginia, because Virginians gave me a permission slip when they elected me to a third term in the Senate last year.

And what I decided was, there was no path forward on health care with the government closed and people were getting hurt in SNAP and other key areas with the government closed. We needed to reopen government, protect federal employees, protect SNAP beneficiaries, and then fight this battle about health care without the background noise of shutdown obscuring the real stakes and the American public's ability to see who's on their side and who isn't with respect to health care.

BLITZER: You're a key member of the Armed Services Committee, so I want to ask you about what's going on with Venezuela right now. Venezuela says it's launching a massive military mobilization in

response to a very significant U.S. military buildup of warships and troops in the Caribbean. As I said, you're on the Armed Services Committee. You're also on the Foreign Relations Committee.

Just how much latitude does the U.S. have right now to justify its Naval buildup and the lethal strikes on alleged drug boats in the Caribbean?

KAINE: Wolf, I think this policy is a catastrophic blunder. I was a missionary in Honduras. I'm the Foreign Relations lead Democrat on the Committee of the Americas.

[11:25:00]

I think treating this as a military intervention is a big mistake. You saw yesterday that our closest ally, the United Kingdom, has now stopped sharing intelligence with the U.S. on activities in the Caribbean and Pacific near the Americas because they believe the U.S. strikes are violating international law.

And when you amass such Naval presence near Venezuela, you are dramatically raising the risk that Venezuela will pick up something on the radio or see a move and think they're going to be under attack and then respond in kind.

Venezuela has some very significant weapons that they purchased from adversaries of the United States. And the last thing I want to see happen, as a member of the Armed Services Committee and as the father of a Marine, is Venezuela to get the mistaken impression that an attack is imminent and start using these weapons against American sailors and troops in the region.

BLITZER: Important information, indeed.

Senator Tim Kaine of Virginia, thanks so much for joining us.

KAINE: Absolutely, Wolf. Glad to.

BLITZER: Pamela.

BROWN: New this morning. Wolf, the grandson of John F. Kennedy Jr. is running for Congress.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACK SCHLOSSBERG, GRANDSON OF JOHN F. KENNEDY: And our country is at a turning point. It's a crisis at every level.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Jack Schlossberg wants to represent a house district in New York City. The 32-year-old told CNN he is aspiring to be a part of a new generation of Democrats. And he has aligned himself with young progressive Democrats in media appearances, as well as social media, where he has developed a bit of a following. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCHLOSSBERG: It's possible that Trump is trying to crash the economy on purpose. Hear me out. Now, why would Trump want to drive the market down?

The state shouldn't be able to decide to take away that right, decide that you can't get an abortion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Schlossberg is running to replace retiring Democrat Jerry Nadler.

BLITZER: And coming up, new CNN reporting on how the White House is responding to those newly released Jeffrey Epstein e-mails, several of which mention Donald Trump by name.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)