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The Situation Room

Adding Fun to Your Day; Trump Administration Examines Housing Affordability; Judge Holds Hearing in Comey and James Cases. Aired 11:30a-12:00p ET

Aired November 13, 2025 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: So, the legal basis for this order came because plaintiffs' attorneys had argued that DHS' broad sweep of people who had no criminal warrant, no deportation orders, but were still taken into custody, it was a direct violation of that 2022 case.

[11:30:12]

So it is not like a Supreme Court case that would be more broad- sweeping. But the ACLU told me yesterday that they believe there are other cases across the country that are similar. And so they believe that other judges are going to start acting similarly to the judge here in Chicago, Wolf.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: All right, Whitney Wild reporting for us.

Whitney, thank you very, very much -- Pamela.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: And just ahead here in THE SITUATION ROOM, a crucial test for President Trump's efforts to prosecute two of his biggest political enemies. How James Comey and Letitia James are trying to get their cases tossed.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:35:01]

BROWN: Breaking news: a critical test in the criminal cases against two of President Trump's biggest political foes.

A federal judge in Virginia just heard arguments in a bid from James Comey and Letitia James to disqualify prosecutor Lindsey Halligan. Their attorneys argue Halligan was handpicked by President Trump and is serving as interim U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia unlawfully.

BLITZER: And joining us now, CNN's crime and justice correspondent Katelyn Polantz.

Just getting out of the courtroom, Katelyn. You were inside. You listened to all those arguments. So what happened during the hearing?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Wolf and Pam, I was listening very closely to how Judge Cameron McGowan Currie was going to handle this hearing.

And she's a laid-back questioner, a very concise questioner. But, boy, it was a grilling of the Justice Department if I have ever seen one before from a judge like this.

What Judge Currie asked, her very last question of the defense -- of the -- I'm sorry, the Justice Department: "Do you believe U.S. v. Trump was wrongly decided?" That's a very telling question, because the Trump defense team, when Donald Trump was a criminal defendant, he had won his case by having the prosecutor, Jack Smith, tossed off of it in Florida in a set of arguments very similar to this.

And Judge Currie is now asking the Justice Department, are you guys against that now, as the Justice Department, wanting these cases against James Comey and Letitia James to go forward? The Justice Department lawyer responded: "That's a different thing. That was a different situation that doesn't apply here."

But that was quite a question that elicited gasps across the courtroom from a lot of people that were listening to this hearing. The other thing that Judge Currie did is she really dug in to some of the moves the attorney general had made in this case to stand up and back Lindsey Halligan, the Eastern District of Virginia U.S. attorney, who's there, sent by Donald Trump on an interim basis.

The bigger picture of this case is about, has it been too long without a Senate-confirmed person in this job? Judge Currie asked some questions of that, but she had even more questions for the Justice Department, even a back-and-forth on whether or not it was needed for the attorney general to send an order into court.

And she pointed out that the attorney general said in a statement to the court in an order she signed on October 31 she had read all of the grand jury transcripts in this case. The judge went back and forth with that Justice Department attorney, saying that's not even possible and some of them are missing -- Wolf and Pam.

Oh, one more thing. She's going to be ruling by Thanksgiving, so a judge acting very quickly here.

BROWN: All right.

POLANTZ: Thanks.

BROWN: OK. Thanks so much, Katelyn Polantz.

Let's bring in former federal prosecutor Alyse Adamson.

So, Alyse, you heard Katelyn really lay it out there. Comey's attorney argued the case against the former FBI director suffers from a -- quote -- "fundamental defect." Can you explain that argument?

ALYSE ADAMSON, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Yes.

So what Comey and James are arguing is that Lindsey Halligan was never lawfully appointed and that she lacked the authority to bring the indictments in the first place, that essentially a private citizen walked into the grand jury and returned these indictments, and thus they can't proceed. They simply can't proceed because they weren't properly brought.

I think an interesting distinguishing factor between James and Comey is that the statute of limitations has now run on James Comey's cases. So if the judge rules in James and Comey's favor and ultimately agrees that Halligan was unlawfully appointment and dismisses the case, it is likely that the Comey case won't come back, although Letitia James' case has not exceeded the statute of limitations and they could just appoint a new prosecutor to bring the case back.

BLITZER: Alyse Adamson, thanks very much for coming in. Appreciate it very much.

BROWN: Thank you for that context. We appreciate it.

BLITZER: And coming up: The shutdown is over, but the real-world impact and the political fallout are here to stay. We will discuss what both parties need to do now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:43:48]

BLITZER: Happening now: Hundreds of thousands of federal employees are returning to work after President Trump signed a bill last night to restore government funding.

But the effects of the record-long shutdown could take longer to unravel. The airline industry says it could take a week for travel to return to normal and it could take even longer, they say, for programs like Head Start to come back online.

Joining us now to discuss what's going on, two CNN political commentators, Republican strategist David Urban and former DNC communications director Karen Finney.

David, thanks very much. And, Karen, thanks to you as well.

The administration says, as you know, that the economic impact of this shutdown could be severe. And the White House says it may not release the October jobs report and inflation data. Listen to this and then we will discuss.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The Democrats may have permanently damaged the federal statistical system with October CPI and jobs reports likely never being released. And all of that economic data released will be permanently impaired, leaving our policymakers at the Fed flying blind at a critical period.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: You agree with that? DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, Wolf, so look,

the United States was basically closed for the past six weeks. The government was closed for sure, for certainly.

[11:45:04]

And so it's going to throw a monkey wrench into all those statistics. A lot of those people who compile those statistics haven't been at work for the past six weeks. So I'm not quite sure what the options would be there, have a delayed report perhaps. I'm not quite sure.

And, look, those numbers are rearview mirror numbers, not prospective numbers. I think what people are concerned about are looking forward, right? We need to see what's going to happen in the future. Nobody cares about what happened three months ago, four months ago. They care about what's going to happen in the future. I think that's a much bigger concern to Americans as we come out Thanksgiving, Christmas, the holiday season.

I think people want to know what's going on and what's going to happen in their pocketbooks.

BLITZER: And, Karen, as you know, notably absent from this agreement, this legislation that President Trump signed into law last night is an agreement to reopen -- an agreement that the Democrats demanded for extending Obamacare subsidies for millions of Americans out there, legal American citizens who rely on this for their health care.

KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

BLITZER: The House minority leader, Hakeem Jeffries, told CBS, the fight isn't over.

But do Democrats have any shot at getting this funding passed?

FINNEY: Probably not because the Republicans and President Trump himself have seemed very opposed to really doing anything. They did win a concession to get a vote in the House -- sorry -- in the Senate. But it's unclear if that will happen in the House.

But here's the thing. Hakeem Jeffries is correct. The issue doesn't go away. I mean, we're all still in the open period where you have to pick your program for next year. Your costs are going to go up. I mean, I was just looking. My costs are going up a few hundred dollars. Thankfully, I can afford it.

But for millions of Americans, particularly in red states and Southern states, where you see a lot of Trump voters, they're looking at $400, $900 more. So the issue doesn't go away. And if Republicans fail to allow a vote, they own the issue going into the election year.

BLITZER: And, as you know, David, the Democrats repeatedly voted against that continuing resolution because it eliminated that health care benefit, the subsidies for millions of Americans out there who are relying on it and their numbers are going up. URBAN: Well, yes. Well, it didn't include the continuation of the

subsidies. The subsidies were put in place by the Biden administration during the COVID.

BLITZER: But they let those -- the money lapse.

URBAN: No, they let them lapse. They let them lapse.

FINNEY: Yes.

URBAN: And listen, I'm not quite sure it's super wise to keep throwing money at a broken system, right? That's what this extension would be, where the system is broken, costs are continuing to spiral out of control, so let's just throw more money at it.

I think the real solution here is to try to figure out how to reduce Americans' health care costs overall while delivering the same level of quality of care. That's the question. How do we deliver quality care in America for a lesser price? Lower prescription drug costs. What do we do to affect hospitals, third-party billing system?

All these things that combine to make our system the best in America also make it the most expensive in the world. And so throwing more cash at that just because the prices are going up may not be the exact answer. I would like to get people together around the table to negotiate lower costs to patients, to people directly.

FINNEY: We have radical agreement. David and I agree. Lowering costs should be the goal.

But here's the problem. I mean, we have never seen a Republican plan to do that. Trump has been talking about it.

URBAN: Well, the Democrats can bring one out.

(CROSSTALK)

URBAN: If you got a good one.

FINNEY: We did. We did. The whole point -- I mean, President Obama said this at the time. That was meant to be a starting point. And the hope was that Republicans and Democrats would come together and try to address how you, we will bring this old term back out, bend the cost curve in such a way that it could be more affordable.

URBAN: Right.

FINNEY: But, again, when you -- I mean, let's just think about this.

We learned during the shutdown that the president of the United States was willing to pit children who are sick against -- and need health care against children who need SNAP, who are hungry. That's not a good negotiation -- place to start negotiating, David.

URBAN: Well, all Chuck Schumer had to do is yes on the C.R. (CROSSTALK)

URBAN: So, we will go back and forth on that. But it really is. The issue is, Americans need health care, right?

FINNEY: Yes.

URBAN: People need to have their health care taken care of in America. Prices are too high.

How do we solve that, when Obamacare is not going to go away? I know Republicans like to try to talk about we're going to replace Obamacare, we're going to repeal and replace it. That's never been something that's been able to be done. The first Trump administration, they tried, failed miserably.

And so Obamacare looks like it's here to stay in some form. So how do we fix it? How do we make it better? Look, Donald Trump has said repeatedly, I want people's health care to be better. I don't want to take it away.

(CROSSTALK)

URBAN: I want it to be better.

BLITZER: Why doesn't he come up with a plan, then?

URBAN: It's because it's very difficult to do. It's very difficult to do.

FINNEY: Where's the plan? Where's the plan? Where's the plan?

URBAN: I think -- listen, I think it's incumbent upon -- now that the Congress is back, I think it's incumbent upon -- listen, let's release the Epstein files. Let's do all those things.

FINNEY: Yes.

URBAN: But let's work for things that actually matter to the American people, not denying the victims don't have issues, these women who were abused by Epstein and suffered greatly.

[11:50:00]

But American people want their costs to go down. They want their costs of gas, eggs. And this administration has done a good job on that. I think health care is in that basket. It needs to be addressed.

FINNEY: But, David, the Epstein files though, I mean, we're talking about people who are in those files who may still be, let's remember, sexually assaulting and abusing women, young kids. So, that's part of why it's important.

URBAN: I'm all for it. I'm all for it releasing it. You know...

FINNEY: I know you are. Me too. URBAN: Prosecuting people.

FINNEY: And if you're in there and you did something, you should go to jail.

(CROSSTALK)

FINNEY: Do you agree?

URBAN: Yes. No, I agree.

I just think, now that the Congress is back, release the files. Let's move on to these things, these economic issues are going to...

FINNEY: Like lowering costs?

(CROSSTALK)

FINNEY: Inflation?

URBAN: I agree. I think lowering costs -- inflation's going down. The president is working very hard. Inflation's going down. Real wages are increasing.

But there's a problem. Look, it's been going up. If you look at the numbers, over the past four years of the Biden administration, cost went up. Things are starting to come down a little bit, but it takes time. This president's only been in there. I know people think it's like four years.

FINNEY: Nine months. Nine months.

URBAN: They think it's four years.

FINNEY: It's been nine months.

URBAN: He's been doing a great job.

FINNEY: It's time.

URBAN: He's been doing a great job. Give it a little bit more time, and I think you will see it.

But I think the administration will start talking about it more. Secretary Rollins was in here talking about it just earlier. I think that the Congress, Republicans know that they have to fix it when they get in these midterm elections.

And real quickly before we go, I just want to say congratulations on 35 years, 20 years in THE SIT ROOM.

FINNEY: Yes.

URBAN: I can tell our viewers that I first met Wolf Blitzer, met Wolf Blitzer when I was a young soldier in the Gulf War, the first Gulf War. Bernie Shaw and Wolf Blitzer, I looked to them every day when I was

sitting there in Dhahran watching Wolf and Bernie tell us what was going on in the first Gulf War.

FINNEY: Wow.

URBAN: So congratulations.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: And Peter Arnett and John Holliman.

URBAN: But I don't remember them as much.

(CROSSTALK)

URBAN: And congratulations, Wolf.

FINNEY: Well, I remember I met Wolf Blitzer when he was covering the White House during the Clinton administration and have had the honor of both working with you, being on that side of it and on this side of the camera.

So it's been an honor.

BLITZER: Thank you very much.

FINNEY: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: It's been my honor. It's been my honor.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: I met him when I was 9, and now here I am.

(CROSSTALK)

FINNEY: Here you are in THE SITUATION ROOM.

BROWN: I'm here in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(CROSSTALK)

URBAN: And Wolf never ages.

BROWN: He doesn't. He actually doesn't. He is a true icon.

BLITZER: All right, guys, thank you very much.

FINNEY: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: And thanks to Pamela as well.

BROWN: All right, coming up: The Trump administration is workshopping some unorthodox ways to help make housing more affordable. What this could mean if you're looking to buy or sell a home.

But, right now, today's "Chasing Life" with Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

BLITZER: Today, he's walking us through the importance of adding some fun to your week, even if it's something small.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta, host of CNN's "Chasing Life" podcast.

On Mondays, do you always find yourself longing for the weekend? If so, here's an idea. Give yourself a few things to look forward to during the week, things that might make you happier and feel more fulfilled. Start by booking a weekly activity, like playing a sport or doing trivia or joining a book club.

If the activity includes other people, you're going to be more likely to follow through and make it a habit. You should also challenge yourself by learning something new, maybe a new language. Adding commitments to your week may be hard at first, but additional goal- focused activity can actually give you more energy.

Finally, try adding positive interactions throughout your day. Doesn't have to be much. Maybe just paying someone a compliment. These chats can cause small bursts of positive emotions, something I think we can all use.

And you can hear more about how to optimize your health and chase life wherever you get your podcasts.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:58:03]

BROWN: Well, new this morning, the Trump administration is considering a new proposal to make housing more affordable, letting homeowners take their mortgage rates with them when they move.

The idea is aimed at the tackling the lack of homes available on the market, which has created quite a squeeze.

CNN senior reporter Matt Egan joins us.

So how exactly would this work, Matt?

MATT EGAN, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Well, Pamela, as you know, there's just so much frustration right now about how expensive it is to buy a home in America.

And one of the problems is that high mortgage rates have sort of frozen supply in place. Now, the average 30-year mortgage rate, it's come down, but it's still pretty high at over 6 percent. And that's a problem because over 80 percent of existing mortgages are under 6 percent. That means the vast majority of homeowners, they feel like they can't sell.

They're sort of locked in right now because they'd have to pay a lot more in interest. And so that's where the portable mortgage comes into play. This is an idea that the White House says it's actively evaluating. And what it would be would be, essentially, in addition to bringing your television and your couch when you move, you would be able to bring your existing mortgage rate.

It would be a way to try to encourage people who have those low rates to move and try to free up additional supply. But experts tell CNN that this would be a logistical nightmare. It would probably require rewriting contracts. It could even require an act of Congress as well.

This is something that could help on the margins when it comes to existing supply, but not do much when it comes to new supply of homes. Now, there's another idea out there that the president has floated, which is a 50-year mortgage. And that's something that has raised some eyebrows.

Let me show you how that might work. Say you're trying to buy a $450,000 home at current interest rates. Under a 50-year mortgage, your monthly payments would be about $300 cheaper. So that's helpful, although not dramatically lower.

But here's the problem. Look at the change in interest. Under a 50- year mortgage. Your interest payments over the life of the loan would almost double to over a million dollars. And that's if interest rates stayed the same. They could actually be even higher.

So, Pamela, that's why this idea in particular has drawn a backlash among housing experts and even some conservatives, who say it just doesn't make sense.

BROWN: All right. Matt Egan, thanks for breaking it down for us. We appreciate it.

EGAN: Thanks, Pamela.

BLITZER: And, Pamela, before we leave this hour, I want to give you a gift.

BROWN: Oh.

BLITZER: This is called a penny.

BROWN: Rest in peace, penny.

(LAUGHTER)

BLITZER: They're not making any more pennies.

BROWN: Yes.

BLITZER: So you have one of the final pennies out there.

BROWN: Wow, this is really special, Wolf. BLITZER: Say, thank you very much, Wolf.

BROWN: Thank you very much, Wolf.

BLITZER: And, to all of our viewers, thanks very much for joining us.

(LAUGHTER)

BLITZER: "INSIDE POLITICS" with our friend and colleague Dana Bash starts right now.