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The Situation Room

Trump Under Fire Over Treatment of Journalists; Russia Launches Missile and Drone Attacks on Ukraine; James Comey Seeking to Have Indictment Dismissed. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired November 19, 2025 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:00]

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[11:34:36]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Breaking news into CNN regarding former FBI Director James Comey in his fight to get his federal charges dismissed.

Crime and justice correspondent Katelyn Polantz is right outside the federal courthouse.

Katelyn, what happened in court?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, a startling discussion. Less than one minute of time passed with no silence in this courtroom, as the judge was able to ask the question and got the Justice Department to admit the final indictment that James Comey now faces, the former FBI director, it was never shown to the full grand jury in this courthouse, and they did not approve it in full.

[11:35:11]

They had voted down inditing Comey, because they had been asked to approve three different charges against him. That indictment was a no from the grand jury, and then there was no further discussion with the prosecutors to bring about the indictment Comey now faces.

I want to lay this out a little bit more, because I'm sure there will be many legal analysts to talk about this. The judge didn't make any final determinations about the case. And there will be more arguments about this.

But what happened in court was that Judge Nachmanoff, after there were many arguments about Donald Trump directing the Justice Department, whether he had, whether Lindsey Halligan, the prosecutor here, had acted on her own accord to decide to bring this indictment against Comey, Judge Nachmanoff, he began asking the prosecutor to explain why the documents in this case look the way this is, why there was missing time in the grand jury transcript. And things got very intense very quickly. They put on the husher. Both defense team and the prosecution team started whispering to each other very vigorously. And then the judge asked the question: "The operative indictment in this case, that document was never shown to the entire grand jury?"

That is when Tyler Lemons, the prosecutor, standing next to Lindsey Halligan, the U.S. attorney who was also seated at a council table, says: "Standing in front of you right now, no."

There was silence in the courtroom. Judge Nachmanoff sat back in his chair. He looked down. He flipped pages that were in front of them and then he asked again and stopped Tyler Lemons from answering, called Lindsey Halligan up to the podium. And she also confirmed: "No, Your Honor," that the foreperson in open court was the person who had signed the final indictment against Comey.

This was the very end of the arguments, the full set of arguments. This was like an additional thing the judge wanted to talk about. And so right after this, the defense counsel for James Comey, Michael Dreeben, and he stood up and he said: "It appears the operative indictment in this case was never shown to the grand jury and was never returned."

That is the conclusion that they should draw, at least on the defense. He's trying to argue to the judge that this is an invalid case and should be outright dismissed. There's going to be more arguments in writing over this by today at 5:00. That was what the judge began to set up.

But we are going to see how this plays out, because this is a bit of new information that was very unexpected today and really changes the entire tenor of our understanding of this case and the fight that James Comey's team can bring to it as they try to get it tossed out of this federal courthouse.

BROWN: I mean, this is a big revelation, Katelyn. I have -- have you ever heard of this happening before? I know we have covered DOJ, grand juries for many, many years. I have never heard of a full grand jury not seeing a full indictment.

POLANTZ: No, but I will say, Pam, the judge did tell both parties they needed to look up a particular case in a different district because something in that case law may shed light on how they should interpret this new information.

But this was a moment in court -- I have been in a lot of these hearings in politically charged cases over the years. This was gobsmacking. It was absolute silence. I have said before in this case that there have been moments where people gasped, but this was -- you could see the entire room shift.

And from then on, this was the only thing that was that was mattering in that case. This is the only thing that the judge and that others were talking about as they wrapped it up towards the end. I mean, one of the things too that was very surprising about this is how much this argument went back to Lindsey Halligan.

We have never seen her speak at the podium before. And there was discussion. At one point, the judge even asked, is she a puppet? Is she a stalking horse of Donald Trump just sent in to bring this case? And the prosecutors kept saying, no, she was making decisions on her own.

She was even nodding very vigorously about that sitting at the prosecution table. But then, when she stood up to address the judge and confirmed what he then had on the record, that the full grand jury did not return this indictment, she was -- she seemed to be in quite an unhappy mood. She was very short with him.

BROWN: I also think our viewers need to understand the background here for those that aren't following every step, right?

Because President Trump put out that now infamous TRUTH Social post calling on the A.G., Pam Bondi, to investigate Comey and Letitia James and Adam Schiff and mentioned Lindsey Halligan as a potential replacement as the U.S. attorney in the Eastern District, because the other one had left, didn't think that there was enough evidence to prosecute Comey.

[11:40:01]

Lindsey Halligan steps in, right, and now this.

POLANTZ: That's right.

And, Pam, what the bulk of the arguments was, the full 70 minutes before we got to this point about the discussion of the grand jury return, it was about Donald Trump's behavior toward Comey over many, many years. And not only did the defense bring up that tweet where Donald Trump tweeted to the attorney general, Pam Bondi,saying, you should charge James Comey, Letitia James and Adam Schiff with crimes.

It also went the whole way back, and the defense painted this picture of Donald Trump responding every time James Comey was publicly criticizing Trump as president, as the person who fired him, when Comey was writing his book. Each of those moments where Comey was speaking on the public stage critically of Trump, Trump was hitting back with some sort of public statement of his own, a tweet, a TRUTH Social post, saying Comey should be facing some sort of consequences.

So they're arguing that this prosecution, when it ultimately did come about, it was a choice made to deprive Comey of his First Amendment protections to criticize the president -- Pam.

BROWN: All right, Katelyn Polantz, thank you so much. A lot happening today out there.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Busy news day indeed.

Also new this morning, people in Western Ukraine are dealing with the aftermath of massive and deadly Russian drone and missile attacks. Ukrainian officials say at least 25 people were killed, including three children, and dozens more were wounded in the overnight Russian attacks.

NATO scrambled fighter jets after Romania said a Russian drone entered its airspace. And this comes as Russian sources are now telling CNN there are high-level talks with U.S. officials about the war under way.

BROWN: CNN's Alayna Treene is right there at the White House gathering the details on that.

But let's begin with CNN's Clare Sebastian in London.

What more can you tell us about these airstrikes, Clare?

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Pamela, look, of course, this fits a pattern we do see with a great degree of regularity, Russia launching these combined missile and drone attacks on Ukraine.

I think this one is notable, number one, because of the location of most of the targeting was in the western part of Ukraine, traditionally seen as safer, further away from the front lines. And that I think underscores where we are in this war, that nowhere is safe, also because this has put NATO on edge again after a spate of airspace incursions over the past few months.

We saw NATO jets scrambled over Poland. And Romania -- Romania's Defense Ministry said that a drone strayed into its airspace. Moldova then came out and said the same, saying it had summoned the Russian ambassador.

And I think this -- look, this was also a very deadly night for civilians. We're hearing now, in the western city of Ternopil, where Russian cruise missiles slammed into residential buildings there, that 25 people are killed, as you said, three of them children, 25 are missing still, according to the Interior Ministry, and the injury toll is now over 90.

I think we can show you some footage that CNN has geolocated of the moment of impact of a Russian cruise missile on one of those buildings. The air force is now saying that this is a Kh-101 missile that is a Russian type of cruise missile that comes with satellite targeting. So read into that what you will, but all of this, of course, coming as President Zelenskyy is in Ankara.

He was trying to reinvigorate negotiations. And I think the overnight attacks really underscore the urgency of that -- Pamela.

BLITZER: All right, Clare Sebastian, thank you very much.

I want to go to Alayna over at the White House.

What else are you learning at the White House over there, Alayna?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, look, this all comes as we are hearing, Wolf and Pamela, that the Trump administration has been quietly attempting to hammer out a new peace deal with Russia. And we're seeing some of those talks accelerate this week, I'm told. And part of that is Steve Witkoff, the president's special envoy. He is someone who's been at the center of the talks with Russia throughout all of Donald Trump's second term really. He has been leading this effort and having conversations and meeting with Russian officials to see if they can work out this new plan.

Now, also part of this, we're told, that Army Secretary Dan Driscoll and a top-level Pentagon delegation arrived this morning in Ukraine. An Army spokesperson said that it is a fact-finding mission to meet with Ukrainian officials and discuss efforts to end the war.

But another U.S. official told my colleague Kevin Liptak and I that a lot of this is also about trying to resuscitate talks on how to end the war. Now, Axios is also reporting that this plan that is being discussed quietly with Russia is a 28-point plan.

I would remind you, we're told it's kind of building off of that 20- point plan that the president successfully worked out with Israel and Hamas, this one, though, really focusing on security guarantees for Ukraine, of course, a top priority of theirs, security for Europe overall, and a big focus on U.S. relations with both Russia and Ukraine.

[11:45:09]

But I would note that this is very significant, and if this actually progresses in a substantial way -- I mean, talks between the United States and Russia on trying to find a broader peace plan here have completely fallen apart in recent weeks.

We know that the president, who spoke with Russian President Vladimir Putin just last month, he had gotten off the phone convinced that there was a lot of progress, planning to have a summit with Putin, just for all of that to fall apart because Putin wasn't making the level of commitments that the Trump administration believed were necessary.

So we're waiting to see more of what this could look like. I'd remind you, though, that the last plan the U.S. proposed talked about freezing the battle lines as they currently are. Not sure if this one has similar thoughts in that.

BLITZER: And in my conversations with Ukrainian officials, Alayna, they keep pointing to the need for these U.S. Tomahawk cruise missiles that would allow Ukraine potentially to hit various Russian targets deep inside Russia, and maybe that would convince the Russians to hold back on these attacks against civilian targets deep inside Ukraine.

Alayna Treene at the White House, thank you very much for that -- Pamela.

BROWN: And coming up here in THE SITUATION ROOM, Wolf: President Trump once again lashing out at journalists and issuing threats, this time for asking about the Epstein files.

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BLITZER: All right, more breaking news.

The U.S. attorney general, Pam Bondi, is now responding to questions about the release of its files related to the late sex offender Jeffrey Epstein.

[11:50:07]

BROWN: The Senate just sent a bill forcing the release of those files to President Trump's desk. Let's hear Bondi's remarks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAM BONDI, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: While the law passed both chambers last evening, it has not yet been signed, but we will continue to follow the law, again, while protecting victims, but also providing maximum transparency.

QUESTION: Madam Attorney General, the DOJ statement earlier this year...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: All right, well that was short. We just heard Pam Bondi there speaking about releasing the files, saying that they will do it with maximum transparency, while protecting the survivors.

BLITZER: Other news we're following, today, President Trump is facing growing and growing criticism, serious criticism, for his treatment of female journalists.

BROWN: On Tuesday, Trump berated ABC's Mary Bruce as she asked very tough, but fair questions during his meeting with Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARY BRUCE, ABC NEWS CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Mr. President, Mr. President -- is it appropriate, Mr. President, for your family to be doing business in Saudi Arabia while you're president? Is that a conflict of interest?

And, Your Royal Highness, the U.S. intelligence concluded that you orchestrated the brutal murder of a journalist; 9/11 families are furious that you are here in the Oval Office.

Why should Americans trust you? And the same to you, Mr. President.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Who are you with? Who are you with? Who are you with? No, who are you with?

BRUCE: I'm with ABC News, sir.

TRUMP: You're with who?

BRUCE: ABC News, sir.

TRUMP: Fake news. ABC fake news, one of the worst in the business.

(CROSSTALK)

BRUCE: Mr. President, why wait for Congress to release the Epstein files? Why not just do it now?

TRUMP: You know, it's not the question that I mind. It's your attitude. I think you are a terrible reporter.

I think the license should be taken away from ABC because your news is so fake and it's so wrong. And we have a great commissioner, the chairman, who should look at that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: CNN chief media analyst Brian Stelter joins us now.

Brian, Trump has routinely attacked the press, but you had this example with Mary Bruce and then you have the example where he's calling a female reporter with Bloomberg "piggy." Why is this time different?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: And, for one thing, this out there -- this outburst yesterday hit different because there was a Saudi prince by his side.

Saudi Arabia has no free press. Instead of Trump celebrating the U.S. right to a free press, he derides the journalists in the room. I think it showed intertwined his media bashing and his autocrat-admiring instincts are.

Trump has no control over the American media, the way that the Saudis have in their country. But Trump acts like he wants to have dictatorial powers over the press. And him bringing up Brendan Carr was really revealing. He cited the FCC chairman and said he hopes that the chairman tries to take away ABC's licenses across the country.

In practice, that is highly unlikely, very hard to do, would cause a lengthy legal battle. But the idea that Trump wants it to happen is very revealing. And he's clearly very jumpy about Epstein questions. This has happened several times in the past week. There were a couple days where Trump was avoiding taking questions altogether about Epstein.

And ever since, when Epstein's name has come up, when journalists have brought up the scandal, Trump tries to shut it down. He acts really aggressive. He gets angrier. And, look, the sketchier he acts about Epstein, the more curious people get, right? The more defensive Trump sounds, the more curious people get.

BLITZER: This is the second time, Brian, as you know, in a week that Trump has leveled the brutal insults at a woman who was covering him.

Friday, on Air Force One, he snapped at a Bloomberg News reporter when she tried to ask him some serious questions about the Epstein files. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: Sir...

TRUMP: Yes, Jennifer, go ahead. Go ahead.

QUESTION: If there's nothing incriminating in the files, sir, why not act...

TRUMP: Quiet. Quiet, piggy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: "Quiet. Quiet, piggy," he said.

That's an insult he's used before with some women journalists. What do you make of this? And how are news organizations responding to these latest attacks?

STELTER: Yes, that's true. He has used that phrase before. But this was still really shocking. It's demeaning language. It's unacceptable language. It didn't get a lot of attention at first over the weekend, because I think in some people -- some people hear this, they think, oh, it's just Trump being Trump.

And journalists are in some cases numb to his attacks. But in the last two days, this piggy comment has got a lot of attention. And I'm noticing people are truly outraged about it in a way that shows Trump still has the capacity to shock.

People, Americans, normal people, normal viewers are still not numb. And that's a good thing that they're not numb to that kind of insulting and ugly language. We saw Bloomberg, which employs the reporter who was targeted in that case, come out with a strong defense, saying, we are just trying to ask questions. We are just trying to do our jobs.

And my takeaway from both these episodes is that Trump wants to press there because he wants the cameras and the microphones. He wants the attention. And he wants his voice to be heard. But he doesn't really want the pesky questions. He doesn't really want the accountability.

But, thankfully, because America has a free press, he doesn't get one without the other. And that's the bottom line, Wolf. You know that better than I.

[11:55:03]

BLITZER: Yes, these two female journalists, Mary Bruce of ABC and Catherine Lucey of Bloomberg, they're both highly respected, serious, smart journalists, right?

STELTER: Yes.

BROWN: Just really quickly... STELTER: Absolutely right. And, this morning, ABC News also coming to

her defense, yes.

BROWN: How unprecedented is all of this with how Trump has been treating the press and calling on the FCC to revoke licenses?

STELTER: A simple answer, Pam. It's getting worse. This is getting worse. The threats are getting louder.

Jason Rezaian said it really well yesterday here on CNN. The heat on the backs of journalists is getting hotter and hotter. And all we can do is keep reporting.

BROWN: I mean, we're going to continue to ask the tough, fair questions and do our job...

STELTER: Yes.

BROWN: ... without fear or favor and just get to the truth, no matter who it favors. But what an environment this is.

Thank you for laying it out, Brian Stelter. We appreciate it.

BLITZER: Thanks very much.

And, to our viewers, thanks very much for joining us this morning.

BROWN: "INSIDE POLITICS" with our friend and colleague Dana Bash starts after a quick break.