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The Situation Room

Mamdani Holds Calls with Top Democrats; False Claims Linking Autism and Vaccines Now on CDC Website; Pope Leo Calls Out Treatment of Migrants in U.S. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired November 21, 2025 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: New this morning, New York City's Mayor- elect Zohran Mamdani is just a few hours away from his first face-to- face meeting with President Trump. They'll be meeting in the White House at the president's invitation. We're getting new details on just how Mamdani is preparing for this very high stakes Oval Office sit down.

CNN Correspondent Gloria Pazmino in New York. She's been speaking with aides close to Mamdani, watching all of this unfold. What are you learning, Gloria?

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Wolf. Look, this is a big moment both for the mayor-elect, but frankly, also for President Donald Trump. He has been deriding Zohran Mamdani for several months now, referring to him as a communist, even though he's a Democratic socialist, threatening to cut federal funding from the city of New York if Mamdani were to be elected, saying that he would have to take over New York City if he were to become mayor, and he will become mayor on January 1st.

So, the relationship between these two men is going to be pivotal, not just for the future of the Mamdani administration, but frankly for the future of New York City. And I think we know that President Trump has an interest, has always taken an interest in all matters having to do with New York City.

So, in the last 24 hours or so, Zohran Mamdani has been trying to get some advice about how to best handle this meeting. He spoke with New York Governor Kathy Hochul, the minority leader, Hakeem Jeffries, the Senate minority leader, Chuck Schumer, to how to best approach this. And I think the biggest question going in is, of course, are we going to be able to see any of these meetings?

We know that sometimes when they open up those doors and the cameras are inside, it can kind of go off the rails with the president being as unpredictable as he is. But I think we have two talented communicators who have used social media and a focus on affordability to reach out to their supporters. And we know that the president is now focused on this message of affordability. That's of course the key message that Mamdani ran on. And he told us yesterday that that's why he's going to the White House to talk to the president about that. Wolf. [10:35:00]

BLITZER: And we'll see if the White House allows cameras inside that meeting. We'll be watching it closely. Gloria, thank you very, very much. Pamela.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Wolf, new this morning the CDC's website updated its language to include a false claim about autism and vaccines. This is just the latest move by the Trump administration to cast doubt on vaccines. Experts argue that there is an abundance of scientific evidence that vaccines do not cause autism.

I want to bring in CNN Medical Correspondent Meg Tirrell to talk about this. Meg, tell us more about how doctors are responding to this.

MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, they're shocked honestly and it's interesting because of course they know that this is language that RFK Jr., the health secretary, has used for a long time before he took the role and in coming into the role. But seeing it updated on the CDC website like this was really surprising to a lot of people and some even said this is sort of a death knell for the CDC right now when it comes to being able to trust medical information coming from this scientific agency.

So, as you can see this is the CDC's page on autism and vaccines. And until Wednesday it had said that many studies say that there is no link between autism and vaccines. Now, that has been updated and at the top of the page it says, quote, "The claim vaccines do not cause autism is not an evidence-based claim because studies have not ruled out the possibility that infant vaccines cause autism.

You have responses coming from groups like the Autism Science Foundation which say, quote, "We are appalled to find that the content on the CDC webpage autism and vaccines has been changed and distorted and is now filled with anti-vaccine rhetoric and outright lies about vaccines and autism. The science is clear, they say, that vaccines do not cause autism."

And, Pam, of course this comes as just the latest in shockwave to the vaccine infrastructure and policymaking in this country that we've seen under President Trump and RFK Jr. Going back to the spring when RFK Jr. sort of unilaterally declared that he was paring back recommendations on COVID-19 vaccines, catching a lot of folks within his own department by surprise, in June taking the unprecedented move to fire all of the CDC's vaccine advisers, in September he and the president calling for splitting up the 50 plus year old MMR, measles mumps rubella vaccine, and calling to delay the birth dose of hepatitis B vaccines, things we're going to hear more about in December, Pam, with the next meeting of these vaccine advisers.

BROWN: So, I just want to be really clear for those people who might be confused by these conflicting messages, what do they need to know about vaccines?

TIRRELL: Well, in particular about vaccines and autism there have been dozens of studies over multiple decades involving millions of children across different countries and continents that have not found a link between vaccines and autism. We should also note that vaccines are studied extensively both alone and together and are found to have good risk benefit profiles Pam. And so, a lot of folks say look to the American Academy of Pediatrics and other outside groups for good sources of information.

BROWN: All right. Meg Tirrell, thank you so much. Wolf.

BLITZER: Important information indeed. Coming up, Pope Leo condemns how the Trump administration is treating immigrants. We're going to ask the archbishop of Miami to weigh in.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:40:00]

BROWN: Happening now, confusion in Charlotte, North Carolina. Local officials there say the federal immigration crackdown is over but the Homeland Security Department says it's not ending anytime soon. The Border Patrol official who led this operation, Greg Bovino, has left for his next assignment. He and his agents are expected to launch an operation in New Orleans as soon as December 1st.

Joining us now is CNN Correspondent Priscilla Alvarez. So, tell us what did we see from immigration officers during this operation in Charlotte?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pamela, a lot of what we saw in Charlotte is exactly what we saw in Chicago and Los Angeles and that's because of who is leading it which is Gregory Bovino. We'll get to him in a second, but this is what we know about what is going on in Charlotte right now.

Gregory Bovino who has been leading the charge in the immigration crackdown in these cities, him and some of his agents left Charlotte yesterday, that's according to a Homeland Security official that I spoke with. Now, what occurred is the confusion. That's what prompted it. Local officials saying that the federal immigration enforcement operation had ended. The Department of Homeland Security however saying it's not ending anytime soon.

Here's why this is confusing. Immigration enforcement operations have been ongoing in multiple cities across the country and that's going to continue to be the case in Charlotte. However, the Border Patrol portion has concluded. There are some agents that have been left behind, but when we see those controversial and heavy-handed tactics those are chalked up to Gregory Bovino. So, when he leaves town there is an element of this operation that ends while general immigration enforcement with ICE and perhaps some other CPA agents can continue. So, that's why this was confusing for those on the ground.

Again, the department saying that the operation that they launched there is ongoing. It's just going to look different than what it looked like over the last five or so days. And what did that ultimately result in? Over 370 arrests, 44 of those had criminal records. These have been updated numbers that the Department of Homeland Security has been providing, and as you can see here speaks to the fact that what we've seen in other data the majority do not have criminal records. So, they may have pending criminal charges.

Now, in terms of what happens next, well, the next operation I'm told is going to be in New Orleans, again, with Gregory Bovino and his agents. And the question is why there? And the Department of Homeland Security Secretary, Kristi Noem, has had this to say when it comes to why operations are happening where they're happening. She said, quote, "These operations are based on where we have a criminal element to our illegal alien population that's in the country and what we can do to get them off of our streets and protect our children and people.

[10:45:00]

So, New Orleans is next that's a vague answer. But what my sources tell me is that they believe that there is a criminal element there that they want to crack down on. There's also, in many of these cases, a political layer because these are Democratic-led cities. Louisiana however is interesting because it's a Republican-led state in this Democratic-led city.

OK. But Gregory Bovino, he's the guy that we're always watching. He's the chief patrol agent of the El Centro sector. So, his job is actually along the U.S. southern border but he has been tapped by the administration to lead this crackdown in multiple cities. In fact, he reports now directly to the secretary otherwise he would have others within the agency be reporting to you as well.

Now, he is familiar with New Orleans. He led the Border Patrol's New Orleans sector during the first Trump administration. So, he is going to an area that he is familiar with and he has worked in because it's worth reminding people that U.S. Border Patrol is located around the country and has operations ongoing in multiple cities. So, again he's been to Los Angeles, Chicago, and Charlotte. He has faced a lot of legal scrutiny especially in Chicago for his tactics. So, those heavy- handed tactics certainly showed themselves in Charlotte as well.

So, he has been dogged by lawsuits, by criticism. He however stands by everything he's doing. I spoke with him earlier this year and he said that he is following immigration law and he is doing things the way that he has been trained to do things. He's just doing it in multiple cities and the way he's doing it is certainly drawing a lot of attention and also a lot of controversy.

BROWN: Yes, it certainly is because he's with Border Patrol and that they have different tactics perhaps they would use at the border than inside an American city.

ALVAREZ: Yes.

BROWN: Thank you so much, Priscilla Alvarez. We appreciate it. Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. As New Orleans now braces for immigration officials to arrive, Pope Leo at the Vatican is condemning the Trump administration's hardline immigration tactics. Pope Leo of course is the first U.S.-born head of the Catholic Church. I want you to listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPE LEO XIV: We have to look for ways of treating people humanely. Treating people with the dignity that they have. But when people are living good lives, and many of them for 10, 15, 20 years, to treat them in a way that is extremely disrespectful to say the least, and there's been some violence unfortunately.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Archbishop Thomas Wenski of the Miami Archdiocese is joining us right now. Archbishop thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much for all your important work. I know you have also spoken out against the Trump administration's immigration enforcement tactics that are unfolding around the country right now. What's your reaction to the Pope's latest comments?

ARCHBISHOP THOMAS WENSKI, MIAMI ARCHDIOCESE: Well, the Pope is certainly very correct in what he's saying and he's reflecting what the bishops of the United States have said most recently about two weeks ago in our special statement on immigration and our opposition to indiscriminate mass deportations. And I think that's the issue.

You know, we have people in government and some media that are that are claiming fires of resentment against migrants and they want to predict -- depict every one of them as a terrorist and almost as a terrorist intent on doing us harm. The truth is that the vast majority of these immigrants are not criminals. They're not people that have -- that are not -- they're not dangerous. They're people that are basically trying to make a life for themselves and their families. And these people when they fall into the hands of ICE or Border Patrol, they should be treated with dignity just as when a policeman stops us we want the policeman to treat us correctly and legally and not abuse his authority and in the same way with Border Patrol.

And at the same time, you know, the bishops also pointed out that, you know, this rhetoric or violence directed towards immigrants we condemn that but we also condemn any rhetoric or violence directed towards law enforcement or to the ICE officials, because they are human beings as well and deserving of respect. And as long as they do their job as they're supposed to, they should get that respect.

BLITZER: A good point. I'm glad you made it. I know you've also spoken out, Archbishop, about your own personal experience as the son of immigrants here in the United States. How has that shaped your views of what we're seeing right now unfold across the country?

WENSKI: Well, my father immigrated from Eastern Europe, from Poland, what's now Poland, and he came here as a young child, and I think that sort of gave me an empathy towards the plight of immigrants.

[10:50:00]

And I remember I spent my whole priesthood now, almost 50 years, working with immigrants, Hispanics with Haitians especially. I worked 18 years as a Haitian -- as a pastor of Haitian communities in South Florida before I became a bishop. And as a bishop, I've been involved a lot in this effort to secure a immigration -- a comprehensive immigration reform.

We were very close to it and then 9/11 happened. If you remember back then, Vicente Fox addressed the Joint Section of Congress and President Bush at that time, the head of what was then INS, Immigration Nationalization Services, were very confident that Congress would pass a comprehensive immigration reform, then 9/11 happened and that kind of threw everything off. And -- you know, and those people that perpetrated those crimes against us, those terrorists, they -- all of them came into the country legally.

So, yes. But somehow, we transferred the perceived threat of terrorists onto immigrants that are basically washing our cars, mowing our lawns or cleaning our grandparents' bedpans and nursing homes.

BLITZER: Archbishop Thomas Wensky of Miami, thank you so much for joining us, thanks for all the important work you do in beautiful Miami. We appreciate it very much.

WENSKI: Thank you.

BLITZER: And we're going to have more news right after a short break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:55:00]

BROWN: Well, new this morning, the Wicked Witch of the West flies back into movie theaters to wrap things up. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: "Wicked: For Good" opens nationwide today. The Emmy-winning journalist and media personality Segun Oduolowu is here with us. Segun, thanks so much for doing this. Thanks so much for joining us. This sequel, as you well know, takes a very heavier turn tackling subjects like fascism, political propaganda and persecution. What should moviegoers expect?

SEGUN ODUOLOWU, EMMY-WINNING JOURNALIST AND MEDIA PERSONALITY: Well, thank you for having me, Wolf and Pamela. And yes, the second half of "Wicked" is darker. And so, people should expect, especially parents, if you're going to bring your kids, prepare for some darker themes, some more intense themes.

If we remember the stage play, the first half of "Wicked" had the really big songs, was really catchy. But the second half, the songs don't hit as much or don't -- they're not as catchy, but it all builds to the culmination of that duet between Elphaba, Cynthia Erivo, and Glinda, Ariana Grande. So, if you're going for the big finale, it does deliver, but beware of the darker themes if you're going to bring children.

BROWN: All right. That's good to know as a parent of a five-year-old. Glad you gave me that heads up. So, in this film, we see Dorothy's arrival in Oz and the backstory of the Scarecrow, Tin Man and Cowardly Lion. I want to look at the trailer and talk on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's a house and it's flying through the sky. I'm off to see the wizard.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bring me the broom of the Wicked Witch of the West, so I have proof that she's dead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stop this, it's gone too far.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So, the director reportedly worked to preserve Judy Garland's Dorothy from the movie from the 1930s. Do you think this film accomplishes that?

ODUOLOWU: I think that this film does an admiral attempt at accomplishing it. You know, it's got to be updated for new fans. So, yes, there is -- for example, the soundtrack has two new songs that the play didn't have. So, there's a little bit of a hodgepodge of adding ingredients that weren't there in the original stage play and then trying to update with Dorothy. And again, this is Hollywood. Even though the play is over, we might try to spin a third movie out of this if possible. You know, there's always the chance at a remake.

But they did a good job. It's rated 70 percent fresh on Rotten Tomatoes. So, the critics are finding this movie to be enjoyable. It's 97 percent on fan approval. So, the fans are going to the film that have seen it and love it, and it has to succeed.

We are just coming off the worst month for film viewing, October, in almost 30 years. So, this movie, with all of its stars, Cynthia Erivo, Ariana Grande, Jeff Goldblum, Coleman Domingo is the voice of the Cowardly Lion --

[11:00:00]