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Rep. Maggie Goodlander (D-NH), Is Interviewed About Trump Accusing Her Of "Seditious Behavior"; Swastikas, Nooses Re-Labeled Hate Symbols After Coast Guard Backlash; Poll: Majority Say Prices Are Up, Despite Trump Messaging. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired November 21, 2025 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SEGUN ODUOLOWU, EMMY-WINNING JOURNALIST & MEDIA PERSONALITY: -- over in almost 30 years. So this movie with all of its stars, Cynthia Erivo, Ariana Grande, Jeff Goldblum, Colman Domingo is the voice of the cowardly lion. There are stars all over the place. Michelle Yeoh is in this. It has to do well. It really needs to save the box office. And so anything that they can put on screen with these stars has to work.

[11:00:22]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Segun so great to see you. Thank you so much. Have a great weekend.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: And the next hour of The Situation Room starts right now.

BROWN: Happening now, new defense, how President Trump is defending a social media post suggesting six Democrats should be put to death for sedition. We're talking with one of those six about the President's comments.

BLITZER: We want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer in New York today with Pamela Brown in Washington and you're in The Situation Room.

BROWN: Happening now, fallout in the nation's capital after President Trump accused a group of Democratic lawmakers of "seditious behavior punishable by death."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): This is perhaps the most reckless irresponsible thing that he has done all Congress and it's going to get a lot of us killed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Sad. The members of Congress who previously served in the U.S. Military or in the intelligence community posted a video urging people currently in those roles to "refuse illegal orders." President Trump insisted moments ago that he is not "threatening death to those Democrats," but that they are in "serious trouble" his words. Listen to what else he said. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What they said is and it was, I mean, I don't know about the modern day things because, you know, modern day is a lot softer. But in the old days if you said a thing like that that was punishable by death. I'm not threatening them but I think they're in serious trouble. I would say they're in serious trouble. I'm not threatening death, but I think they're in serious trouble. In the old days, it was death.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: And joining us now to discuss is one of those Democrats who is now subject, subject to the President's ire, Congresswoman Maggie Goodlander of New Hampshire. She's a key member of the House Armed Services Committee and as a former Navy Reserve intelligence officer. Congresswoman, first of all, thanks so much for your service. Thanks so much for joining us. I want to play what the White House press secretary said just a little while ago about you specifically. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Maggie Goodlander was a Naval officer and notably she was also -- she is also the wife of Joe Biden's National Security former advisor, Jake Sullivan. And so these members knew what they were doing. That is a very, very dangerous message and it perhaps is punishable by law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: She was speaking yesterday. What's your response Congresswoman to that?

REP. MAGGIE GOODLANDER (D-NH): Well, thanks for having me Wolf. Look, we love this country. We love our Constitution. We believe in it deeply. It is not sedition. It is not a crime to state what the federal law says. And what our laws says is something really important for this moment that our service members, our brave service members who step up to serve our country, they obey only lawful orders. It's a core American principle rooted in our Constitution and it's a central to our national security and to public safety because public safety and national security depend upon public trust. So what we've done is to say what the law is and it's very telling that the President has become so unglued by a simple statement of federal law.

BLITZER: Are you aware Congresswoman of any threats to your safety right now since the President's posts about you and these other Democrats yesterday?

GOODLANDER: Look when the President of the United States our commander-in-chief makes threats of violence against me and other members of Congress that has a real impact. He's the most powerful person in the world. And we've -- this is part of a really disturbing trend, Wolf, of political violence in our country, political violence that should be condemned by everybody. There's no place for it in the United States of America.

BLITZER: Why do you and these other Democrats -- Democratic members of Congress, Congresswoman, put out this video in the first place. Is there a specific military order you believe this administration has ordered that it's that is unlawful?

GOODLANDER: Look, Wolf, our service members need to know in this moment that members of Congress in the country have their back and we absolutely do. What we've seen, if you look at the record of this president from his first administration where I was serving, I served in the Navy under three presidents and six secretaries of state, what we saw in the summer of 2020 was the President give orders to Secretary of Defense Mark Esper that were unlawful ones and those were rejected by that Secretary of Defense.

[11:05:09]

The President has talked openly about deploying the United States military to American cities and whenever we're talking about a situation where we've got American troops on American soil taking action against American citizens it should give everybody pause. So what we are focused on, Wolf, is reaffirming the basic unobjectionable and absolutely critical principles that guide our service members that guide our military and that are true to who we are as Americans and -- and that is what we've done here.

And I think it's -- this is a moment for moral clarity, it's a moment for legal clarity and it's -- it's an important moment for our service members who have been put in a difficult position with a President who has tested the boundaries of the law like we've never seen before serving under a Secretary of Defense who when he came before our committee, the House Armed Services Committee, I asked him a simple question that has one answer only, I asked him, will you abide by a decision of the United States Supreme Court? And Secretary Hagseth refused to commit to doing so. This puts our service members in an impossible position and it's a moment to return back to the basic principles of our Constitution in our country.

BLITZER: Have you Congresswoman or any other of these Democratic members of Congress heard directly from members of the U.S. military or the broader national security community who believe they've been given unlawful orders?

GOODLANDER: Wolf, you know, what I'd say is that -- that -- I have heard from service members and I've -- I have heard from service members and this is all a matter of public record. What we see is an uptick of concern from the men and women who are serving in uniform about the legality of orders that are being given and they want clarity and they want to know that the country has their back and we absolutely do because we live under the rule of law. When you take an oath to the Constitution, you take an oath to that document its principles and to every American, not to one person at the top.

And the -- the commander-in-chief has an essential role to play but we've got checks on that. It's a system of three co-equal branches of government and in moments like this I think when fear is contagious, courage is too and clarity is essential and that's what we're doing here, Wolf.

BLITZER: Have you addressed any of your concerns about the President's rhetoric with your Republican colleagues up on the hill and if so what have they said to you about that?

GOODLANDER: Look, the -- the President -- there's no place for threats of political violence in this country and there's no place for political violence. And -- and the President, our commander-in-chief is the most powerful person in the world. He -- his words make a difference and it's -- I never expected, Wolf, that a statement of federal law would cause the President -- President to threaten me and other members of Congress with violence. It's -- it's that's not the kind of country that we should be living in that's not who we are as Americans.

BLITZER: Congresswoman, once again, thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for your military service. Thanks very much for your congressional service Congresswoman Maggie Goodlander appreciate it very, very much. Pamela?

BROWN: All right, Wolf, still ahead here in The Situation Room, the Coast Guard is making a major pivot after getting backlash for appearing to downplay hate symbols like swastikas and nooses.

[11:08:36]

And then later, Trump's economy problem, Americans are frustrated with rising costs and what's being done to fix it. The new number is just ahead. You're in The Situation Room.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Well new this morning, the U.S. Coast Guard says it is reclassifying swastikas and nooses as hate symbols after a previous policy downgraded their display sparking intense scrutiny and outrage. CNN's Brian Todd has been following this for us. So tell us more about this reversal.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, what's extraordinary, Pamela, is that we're even sitting here talking about something like this which was really it's unbelievable. It's essentially that the Coast Guard last week changes its policy to something very controversial and then yesterday has reversed that and now is denying that they ever change their policy in the first place.

So here's what we can tell you the very latest here, the newest Coast Guard memo which was issued yesterday, Pamela, it prohibits the use or the display of nooses swastikas similar -- symbols of hate used by supremacists and other groups. That memo was released again yesterday just hours after "The Washington Post" reported that the Coast Guard last week had downgraded its had changed its policy to downgrade the way it classifies these symbols.

Last week, the policy had changed the language referring to these symbols as, "only potentially divisive." Now the newest language adopted yesterday says divisive or hate symbols and flags are prohibited. There had obviously been a lot of criticism for the Coast Guard since the post reported on Thursday that they changed their policy now they've changed it back but now they're denying that they ever changed it in the first place.

BROWN: But they did change it.

[11:14:59]

TODD: They did change it. They did change it to down -- again downgrade the language referring to nooses and swastikas and -- and other similar symbols as "potentially divisive." That's the rub. That's the really crucial thing that happened and "The Post" reported that they had done this last week. That post report comes out yesterday. The Coast Guard changes it. But now, now they're saying it's -- they -- they call these things hate symbols as they should of course and say and that the Coast Guard says those symbols are prohibited.

DHS, the Department of Homeland Security, which oversees the Coast Guard as you know is now denying that it had ever changed its policy in the first place before the Coast Guard issued its reversal. DHS spokesperson Tricia McLaughlin on social media is denying that the Coast Guard is even backtracking on this issue and here's her latest statement, "the 2025 policy is not changing. USCG issued a lawful order that doubles down on our current policies prohibiting the display, distribution or use of hate symbols by Coast Guard personnel.

It's a lot of confusion. It's a lot of back and forth. But the bottom line is this, Pamela, last week according to "The Washington Post" they changed their policy to downgrade how these symbols are referred to as "potentially divisive." Now they're saying no these are hate symbols and they're prohibited but they're saying they never really changed it in the first place.

BROWN: What was the proof that they did downgrade it and now they're -- because now they're saying oh we never did, so.

TODD: They're saying they didn't but again "The Post" that does have proof that they -- that they -- that they got documentation that they had put in a policy saying only that these symbols were potentially divisive. And then when they reported that there was just a huge backlash --

BROWN: Yes.

TODD: -- as there should be obviously and now they're changing it back but they're denying that they ever really went there in the first place. Now it could be that the Coast Guard will say maybe we were talking about some of this and we never really changed it in the first place. But, again, some of that has to be hashed out in some of our reporting.

BROWN: All right Brian Todd thank you so much. Appreciate it. Wolf?

BLITZER: Yes. Swastikas and nooses are not potentially divisive, they are divisive indeed. Also up next, President Trump claims prices are dropping despite the numbers saying otherwise and the disconnect is apparently starting to wear on voters. We're running the numbers after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:21:53]

BLITZER: Happening now, mixed messages on the U.S. economy as the country is grappling with an affordability crisis. President Trump is claiming prices are down. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: The United States were the hottest country in the world. Prices are coming down and all of that stuff. We have the hottest economy we've ever had. We have the best economy we've ever had.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: But new polling shows Americans feel very, very differently. CNN's chief data analyst, Harry Enten, is joining us right now. What do these latest numbers show us, Harry?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Yes, they ain't buying what the President is selling. The voters ain't buying it, Wolf Blitzer. What are we talking about here? Well, why don't we just first look at grocery prices versus a year ago? Look at this, 85 percent of Americans say that they are up, 60 percent say that they are up a lot.

I have that nice elastics at the bottom. Just 10 percent, just 10 percent of voters say that grocery prices are down versus a year ago. Look, you can get 10 percent of Americans to agree on anything, 10 percent of Americans believe we faked the moon landing, for goodness sake. That's how low of a number this is.

And of course, President Trump always, you know, if it's not going his way, he might try and pass the buck, try and pass the buck back to the Joe Biden administration. Well, the American people, again, ain't buying it because take a look here. All right, more responsible for the current economy. Look at this. More than three in five voters say Donald Trump is more responsible, 62 percent, compared to just 32 percent who say Joe Biden.

Usually you want the higher percentage on your side, but when it comes to who's more responsible for the economy, you don't want that. And at this point, we see a 62 percent of Americans say that Donald Trump, not Joe Biden, is more responsible for the state of the economy -- economy that Americans don't like at this point, Wolf.

BLITZER: How do Americans, Harry, feel that Trump is doing when it comes to prices and overall for that matter?

ENTEN: Yes, OK, so you see this, you see that first slide, right? So perhaps it won't be too much of a surprise when we look at Trump's net approval rating on inflation. You go back to January, it was plus three points. That's not too bad, right? That's in the positive territory. More people approved than disapproved.

Come to this side of the screen. Down we go, down we go. We're talking about minus 34 points. His disapproval rating is 34 points higher than his approval rating on inflation. Of course, this was the key issue, Wolf, that got him elected a year ago, and now a negative 34 point net approval rating on inflation, and therefore it shouldn't be so surprising. Take a look at his net approval ratings overall.

Look at this. November, second term's lows, and I got five polls for you. Marquette minus 14 points, Fox minus 17 points, Marist minus 17 points, Ipsos, look at this, minus 22 points, and the Associated Press, NorcPol, minus 26 points. Wolf, I look at a lot of polls. It's what I do. I root for the Buffalo Bills and look at a lot of polls, and this is the worst 10-day period for Donald Trump in terms of the polling that we have seen throughout his second term. It's nearly as bad as the Buffalo Bills performance last night, which I know made both of us very sad.

BLITZER: Very sad indeed. All right, Harry Enten, we're both Buffalo Bills fans, and we're proud Bills fans as well.

ENTEN: Yes.

BLITZER: All right, Pamela.

BROWN: No matter what their -- their record is, you will always be a proud Bills fan. That's for sure, Wolf. We know that here in The Situation Room.

[11:25:03]

All right, just ahead, outrage in Washington after President Trump suggested a group of Democrats are guilty of sedition. Up next, we'll talk with Republican Congressman and former Navy SEAL Ryan Zinke as members of his party try to distance themselves from the comments.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Happening now, more reaction is pouring in here in the nation's capital after President Trump accused a group of Democratic lawmakers of, "seditious behavior punishable by death." The members of Congress who previously served in the military and intelligence community posted a video urging people currently in those roles to, "refuse illegal orders." They were all Democrats.

[11:30:01]

Well, President Trump insisted this morning that he is not, "threatening death to those Democrats," but they are in a, "serious trouble."