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Americans' Opinions of Trump Administration?; Army Doctor Accused of Sexual Misconduct; John Bolton in Court; Interview With Rep. Ryan Zinke (R-MT). Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired November 21, 2025 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Happening now: More reaction is pouring in here in the nation's capital after President Trump accused a group of Democratic lawmakers of -- quote -- "seditious behavior punishable by death."

The members of Congress who previously served in the military and intelligence community posted a video urging people currently in those roles to -- quote -- "refuse illegal orders." They were all Democrats.

[11:30:00]

Well, President Trump insisted this morning that he is not -- quote -- "threatening death" to those Democrats, but they are in -- quote -- "serious trouble."

Joining us now to discuss this and more as Republican Congressman Ryan Zinke of Montana. He is a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee and a former Navy SEAL commander.

Nice to see you, Congressman.

So I'm just wondering what your reaction is to this. As someone who has risked your life defending this country as a SEAL, how do you respond when the president of the United States accuses your fellow veterans in Congress of -- quote -- "seditious behavior punishable by death"?

REP. RYAN ZINKE (R-MT): Well, that's back up.

The week's been rather fascinating. It started out with Perez, a member from Washington, going against a member from Illinois over election, and then it slid over the Epstein files. And you have Democrats attacking Democrats, Republicans attacking Republicans this week, and then we close off the week with the sedition.

So should they have made the ad? No. When you look at it, what they're doing is, they're advocating troops not obey orders for the president of the United States.

BROWN: Unlawful orders, unlawful orders.

ZINKE: Unlawful orders. But they also said, this president is unconstitutional. Show me where the president is unconstitutional. Show me where execution of a lawful order is unconstitutional. That's a definition of sedition.

Now, both sides -- and this is a larger view -- we need as Americans to stop. We need to get the anger out of the equation. Anger provides a distraction, but it doesn't make solutions. And when both sides now, coming out of a government shutdown, and then going into this, look, everyone needs to relax.

Should they be making videos advocating that our troops don't follow lawful orders? And the UCMJ...

BROWN: Unlawful, Unlawful orders, yes.

ZINKE: And the Uniform Code of Military Justice, is very clear.

A member should not -- he has an obligation not to follow unlawful orders.

BROWN: Right. And that's what -- and, look, you -- and that's what the Democrats said, and you clearly don't agree with what the Democratic members of Congress did.

Several Republicans have said that. But this is not your typical political back-and-forth, right? OK, so the president doesn't like that video. But then he released this post accusing them of sedition punishable by death and talking about being hanged, because that's what George Washington would do. He retweeted that.

I mean, is that appropriate behavior from the sitting president?

ZINKE: Well, there's a difference between the UCMJ and civilian freedom of speech. The UCMJ is pretty clear. It is punishable by death, sedition. You read it.

Now, they are not in the Armed Services. They're former members. But if you -- if you're advocating for troops to disobey lawful orders, that's the definition of sedition.

BROWN: But they didn't do that. It was unlawful orders.

ZINKE: Well...

BROWN: But how can you not unequivocally just condemn what the president did here?

ZINKE: Well, I don't like what either did, quite frankly, on that.

But I understand is that when you're advocating, remember, this presidency is unconstitutional. That's a quote in this ad. So they're promulgating the fact that this president is unconstitutional and your -- and the orders that he's giving are also unlawful.

That is not true. There is -- there's never been a case -- and I challenge anyone to deliver any incident where this president has been unconstitutional and the orders given to the troops are unlawful.

BROWN: OK. Let's actually -- I don't know if the control room can hear me, but can we play the full clip of what the Democrats said just so our viewers can hear it? Do we have that queued up? OK, they're working on it right now.

But I just want our viewers to be able to hear it for themselves, right...

ZINKE: Absolutely.

BROWN: ... so that they can understand.

But, again, this is not -- I understand you don't like the video, OK?

ZINKE: Absolutely.

BROWN: But you have the president of the United States putting out this TRUTH Social post at a time when political violence is on the rise, and we have seen that. Is that a responsible thing for the president to be doing?

ZINKE: That's not how I would phrase it. I'm glad he came back and said I didn't mean to hang it. But when you look at it and on -- what was being advocated...

BROWN: Hold on. Hold on. Let's actually listen.

ZINKE: Yes, look at it.

BROWN: Let's listen to the whole video.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ELISSA SLOTKIN (D-MI): I'm Senator Elissa Slotkin.

SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): Senator Mark Kelly.

REP. CHRIS DELUZIO (D-PA): Representative Chris Deluzio.

REP. MAGGIE GOODLANDER (R-NH): Representative Maggie Goodlander.

REP. CHRISSY HOULAHAN (D-PA): Representative Chrissy Houlahan.

REP. JASON CROW (D-CO): Congressman Jason Crow.

KELLY: I was a captain in the United States Navy.

SLOTKIN: Former CIA officer.

DELUZIO: Former Navy.

CROW: Former Paratrooper and Army Ranger.

GOODLANDER: Former intelligence officer.

HOULAHAN: Former Air Force. KELLY: We want to speak directly to members of the military...

SLOTKIN: ... and the intelligence community...

CROW: ... who take risks each day...

DELUZIO: ... to keep Americans safe.

SLOTKIN: We know you are under enormous stress and pressure right now.

HOULAHAN: Americans trust their military.

DELUZIO: But that trust is at risk.

KELLY: This administration is pitting our uniform military...

SLOTKIN: ... and intelligence community professionals...

CROW: ... against American citizens.

KELLY: Like us, you all swore an oath...

GOODLANDER: ... to protect and defend this Constitution.

DELUZIO: Right now, the threats to our Constitution aren't just coming from abroad...

CROW: ... but from right here at home.

KELLY: Our laws are clear. You can refuse illegal orders.

SLOTKIN: You can refuse illegal orders.

[11:35:00]

DELUZIO: You must refuse illegal orders.

SLOTKIN: No one has to carry out orders that violate the law...

HOULAHAN: ... or our Constitution.

CROW: We know this is hard...

KELLY: ... and that it's a difficult time to be a public servant.

SLOTKIN: But whether you're serving in the CIA...

CROW: ... in the Army...

DELUZIO: ... or Navy...

HOULAHAN: ... the Air Force...

KELLY: ... your vigilance is critical.

SLOTKIN: And know that we have your back.

CROW: Because now, more than ever...

HOULAHAN: ... the American people need you.

SLOTKIN: We need you to stand up for our laws...

DELUZIO: ... our Constitution...

KELLY: ... and who we are as Americans. Don't give up.

DELUZIO: Don't give up.

CROW: Don't give up.

SLOTKIN: Don't give up the ship.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: OK, so now everyone has heard this.

ZINKE: Yes.

BROWN: They did not say that the president is unconstitutional. We just heard -- that's what you had said earlier.

ZINKE: Right, but they did say...

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Hold on, hold on. Let me just me finish.

ZINKE: I want to be clear, though.

BROWN: And then I'm going to let you say your piece.

ZINKE: All right.

BROWN: It is true that some of these orders coming from the president are in the courts, right, when it comes to National Guard in American cities. It is true that the U.K. and others view what is happening with Venezuela and the strikes as illegal, right?

They did not specify that, although we did have a Democratic lawmaker on who was in that video saying that this was about what the president has done. So you can disagree with everything said in that video. But is it appropriate what the president did in response about the sedition and...

ZINKE: Well, first thing, a quote: Remember, this administration is pitting our troops against the people, pitting troops against their own command. The intelligence community, this administration is doing action that is illegal in pitting us Americans against Americans.

I don't see that. I think this president is executing lawful orders. And until the court... BROWN: So you see it as lawful, and that's OK. Is that -- yes.

ZINKE: Well, up to date, I challenge anyone to say that the enforcement of immigration is...

BROWN: It's in the courts.

ZINKE: To date, it is lawful and it's constitutional, according to the courts.

BROWN: But it's the question of the National Guard in states where the government doesn't want the National Guard. That's going through the courts.

ZINKE: And the courts will decide that. And...

BROWN: Right.

ZINKE: But I think, what was the purpose? The purpose is to do what? Why did they produce this?

The purpose is to incite, to advocate that troops don't obey orders, to question orders? If you're under the UCMJ, and you don't follow and you hinder, because that's the definition of sedition, if you hinder the lawful execution of orders, that's sedition.

And in the context of George Washington, I can tell you if you look at the history of it, those people that left Valley Forge were hunted down, and some of them were.

BROWN: But...

ZINKE: But I don't like the rhetoric. And I don't attempt to defend the rhetoric on both sides, advocating hanging of senators and hanging of congressmen.

Again, it goes down to we all, every American just needs to say, stop. And look at what happened in Congress this week. You had members going against members on the House floor, which is not the appropriate place to adjudicate wrongdoing, on the House floor.

BROWN: Yes.

ZINKE: This is why we have committees. It's unfortunate. I think everyone needs to just take a deep breath and stop and stop the distractions that are driving us away from focusing on what we should be focusing on, the economy, on supply chain, on critical minerals, on manufacturing, on jobs, on health care.

This is what we should be focusing on...

BROWN: Right.

ZINKE: ... and not these distractions that seems like a circus every week.

BROWN: Right.

And I take your point. But I just want to be clear, because you're saying both sides are responsible here. And I understand you don't like what the Democrats have done. But do you have anything more to say about these posts and the message that it could send to people who might be unhinged?

ZINKE: Well, I'm glad it was retracted. He said he didn't mean to do that. There was a term. But I think both sides -- look, and I know the president. I know him well. I work for him. I get it.

When someone says, hey, if you're a trooper, go ahead, you don't have to follow the law because we're going to say it's unconstitutional.

BROWN: They didn't say that. I just want to be clear, they didn't say you don't have to follow the law.

ZINKE: Oh.

BROWN: And you can have plenty of questions about, why did they do this?

ZINKE: Right.

BROWN: Was this the appropriate time? Was this the right time? That's -- those are fair questions to be asking.

ZINKE: Absolutely.

BROWN: And we have been asking about that.

ZINKE: So...

BROWN: But this is not a typical political back-and-forth, where one side does something and the other side responds. One side did something, right, and then you have the president of the United States putting out that tweet, TRUTH Social post.

ZINKE: Right. And you have Article I and Article II in the Constitution.

But, again, I think the point should be that everyone just needs to focus on what's important. You look at where we're at. We have Venezuela smoldering. We still have Gaza to a degree of peace. But the peace is fragile. You have Ukraine, which is important. We see an opportunity in Ukraine. You have China still going.

And you have the economy in the U.S., people are struggling. And, look, the job of the government is to take care of its people. And I agree with the American first. But we have to do, I think, three things overall.

[11:40:09]

We have got to make sure, number one, the economy is better. And prices, especially fuel, are going down, which is a driver. Secondly, the trade tariffs, I think, have to lead to trade deals. And, lastly, the interest rates have to come down.

BROWN: You said you want to make prices better, right?

ZINKE: Yes. I see that the cost of energy and fuel when you fill up gas is much lower. In Montana, it's about $2.25. In California, they're crazy. They're high for different reasons.

BROWN: Right.

ZINKE: But that's a driver of bringing costs down. That's a major input, energy. But we need to do better.

I think the tariffs cause some degree of inflation. Long term, hopefully, they go to a trade deal, and that will bring prices down, market stability. And, lastly, the spending, which we're not talking about a lot -- look, when you're in $38 trillion in debt, now my position from Montana, hey, the bus is full.

You want to add more money to it, then take something off. But the bus is full. And you can't ignore $38 trillion in debt anymore, because that's one of the key drivers of inflation, which you and I pay for by what we pay in a mortgage, what we pay in our car loan, credit cards, across the board.

BROWN: All right. Congressman....

(CROSSTALK)

ZINKE: That's what we should be talking about. And on behalf of Congress, my pledge is to work together, guys. We're Americans.

BROWN: And work across the aisle, because I know that you...

(CROSSTALK)

ZINKE: And these are military commanders and they're heroes. And those who have fought -- I fought with Americans.

BROWN: Yes.

ZINKE: I fought for Americans. I don't want to fight against Americans. We can debate and we can agree or disagree.

But let's not be disagreeable to the point where we're advocating hanging or violence or assassination attempts. Look, we're Americans. We got to solve our problems together. And that's the way the Constitution was put in. A lot of things are a compromise, by the way, to include our Constitution.

BROWN: A lot of things were compromised to make the Constitution. I would think about that.

ZINKE: Our Constitution. Benjamin Franklin, he was a great guy, the great founding father. It was a compromise.

BROWN: How did the framers come together to create the Constitution? Because you think, if it was this day and age, I don't know if that would be happening.

But I think that's an important message to end on. And I really appreciate your time and relaying your thoughts on all of these issues here in Washington this week. Thank you, Congressman.

ZINKE: Always a pleasure.

BROWN: Thank you -- Wolf.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: All right, there's more breaking news.

The hearing for the former Trump National Security Adviser John Bolton has just wrapped up at the federal courthouse in Maryland.

I want to go live right now to CNN's Katelyn Polantz, who was attending that hearing.

What can you tell us? I understand there's news.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Wolf, there is a little news here. And it's that the prosecutors, they have so much work to do on this case, there's documents seized from John Bolton in his electronics, potentially even from his house that they haven't even gone through yet, to the point where they say in this hearing that there's the possibility he could be charged with more crimes at a later date.

Now, that's a big if. And it is very contingent of how things are going to be going forward in this case, a lot of question marks. We don't even have a trial date as of this time. What we're seeing, though, from the prosecutors, what we're hearing from the prosecutors speaking in court today to the judge is that, at this point in time, they have charged John Bolton with these 18 counts.

But the core of this case, it's those 10 counts where he's alleged to have retained national defense information. Those are the counts that are about the diary-like summaries he was making of what he was being briefed on allegedly as national security adviser and then sending those documents over his e-mail.

But the prosecutors, they haven't even gone through everything that they have collected from them. And that's why they say it's totally plausible that they may have other things that they will want to charge with Bolton at a later time, so much to come in this case, long until trial -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And that trial might not happen until 2027? Is that what they're suggesting as well?

POLANTZ: It's possible, Wolf, but we don't actually even have a date for that.

What we have is the ability to know that, in the next couple months, that's when the prosecutors are going to be getting more information from the intelligence community about what they can use or what they can't use in this case. They will also be able to look at some documents they haven't been able to, because John Bolton, he's an attorney.

There's protections around that as well. And then the defense team will start looking through and telling the judge what they want to do. We're not even going to get an update until February, maybe even March -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, we will stay in close touch with you, Katelyn. Thank you very much.

And we will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:49:26]

BLITZER: Survivors continue to come forward in the case of a Texas Army OB-GYN described in a lawsuit as a -- quote -- "predator in uniform." At least 65 women at the Army Medical Center at Fort Hood, Texas, accused Dr. Blaine McGraw of sexual misconduct.

The lawsuit alleges Army investigators recovered thousands of photographs and videos from Dr. Blaine McGraw's cell phone taken over the course of multiple years, depicting scores of female patients, many of whom remain unidentified.

The women also claim the Army swept their concerns under the rug.

[11:50:00]

CNN anchor Brianna Keilar is joining us right now in THE SITUATION ROOM.

Brianna, this is awful. I know you have some exclusive new reporting on what led the Army to investigate this doctor, and it's really disturbing. I want you to update our viewers.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Yes, that's right, Wolf.

We discovered that the Army investigated this doctor at least twice before in 2022 and 2024 in Texas and Hawaii due to patient complaints, and nothing came of it and that many patients had complained in some fashion over the years.

I spoke to multiple sources and learned what prompted this investigation was actually a husband raising hell, the husband of a female Army officer who was a patient of Dr. Blaine McGraw's. This is a combat veteran, former infantryman who served in Afghanistan, a job where you really keep your head on a swivel. You're constantly taking inventory of your surroundings.

And that's what he was doing at his wife's appointment that he had accompanied her to last month when this gynecologist began a transvaginal ultrasound, according to a source familiar with what this husband told investigators.

He saw the doctor was recording his wife in this very vulnerable situation. The couple tried and tried to report it to the hospital, to base leadership at Fort Hood, and it was a very frustrating process, we learned from sources.

At one point, the husband apparently, boiling over, screams in the hotel lobby: "I just caught a doctor recording my wife's vagina." That was about a month ago, and an Army led criminal investigation ensues from there. Investigators find visual evidence on Dr. McGraw's phone,sources told us.

They start alerting women in those images. They start sending out letters to the approximately 3,000 patients that he saw at Fort Hood and Tripler Army Medical Center in Hawaii. One alleged victim filing a civil suit last week accusing Major McGraw of recording her pelvic and breast exam.

And we spoke with victims and sources who are in touch with many victims, who say McGraw frequently had a phone in his pocket, as you can see in this video here of an exam room situation, also in a picture that CNN obtained as well.

I spoke with one victim who said McGraw gave her a forceful unscheduled pelvic exam in 2021 that resulted in breaking her water before her scheduled date to be induced and then took steps to hide that he had done that exam. And the Army suspended this doctor. He checked into a civilian inpatient mental health facility, according to court records.

We have learned from sources he left that facility yesterday or was scheduled to. And we're waiting to see what move the Army makes in what could be one of, if not the largest sexual misconduct case in military history.

BLITZER: Yes, this sounds terrible, terrible indeed.

What is the doctor saying, Brianna? And what is the U.S. Army saying?

KEILAR: Well, Major McGraw's lawyer gave me this statement acknowledging new allegations since the lawsuit and saying -- quote -- "Beyond the allegations themselves, we have seen no records to support the patients were touched in a way that was not medically indicated. We believe that the Army previously resolved at least one of the allegations because of an eyewitness account by another provider present. We will continue to cooperate. We remain disappointed at Army law enforcement's handling of the investigation."

The Army says they're committed to supporting patients affected by these allegations. "We have swiftly established a call center, assigned a special victims counsel, and are actively notified patients. Additionally, we have created a patient support line to offer access to resources and assistance. We encourage anyone with information related to the investigation to contact the Department of Army Criminal Investigation."

But legal counsel at Fort Hood has subpoenaed the law firm representing many of the accusers, requesting statements that the firm has collected from them about their experiences with Dr. McGraw, communications that you would expect may be privileged.

And this speaks to the bigger issue, Wolf, that many of these alleged victims are feeling, which is what they describe as an instinct by the Army to protect the institution, rather than these individuals, these soldiers and military family members who make up and support the Army.

Certainly taking this unusual step and what legal experts I have spoken to expect will be an unsuccessful effort of subpoenaing potentially privileged communications of these alleged victims and their lawyer does not feel like an effort to protect them, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Brianna Keilar, as usual, excellent, excellent reporting.

Thank you very, very much.

BROWN: Incredibly important reporting there from Brianna. Wow.

Well, up next here in THE SITUATION ROOM: President Trump's treatment of reporters, his meeting with New York's incoming mayor and both parties appearing to lean toward the fringes, we're exploring some of the big stories Americans are talking about right now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:56:17]

BROWN: It's Friday. Time to hear "Your Voice," where we hear from radio and podcast hosts across the political spectrum on what their listeners are talking about.

Today, we have Michael Medved of "The Michael Medved Show" and Clay Cane of "The Clay Cane Show" on SiriusXM Urban View. Clay is also the author of the upcoming book "Burn Down Master's House."

All right, Michael, let's kick it off with you. You have a more conservative audience, I believe. Are they defending these comments from President Trump about sedition punishable by death? Or did they see them going too far? What are they saying?

MICHAEL MEDVED, HOST, "THE MICHAEL MEDVED SHOW": All of the above.

The big story right now that obsesses people is not the division between the two parties, but the divisions within the two parties. There is a focus on the people who come forward with the most strident, angry tones. And often it is people on the left like Mamdani, who's meeting with the president today, or it's people on the right like Tucker Carlson and Nick Fuentes.

They have gotten a great deal of attention and publicity, and they're not from the mainstream of either party. They're from the fringes of both parties.

BROWN: Are your listeners reflecting that sentiment, Clay?

CLAY CANE, HOST, "THE CLAY CANE SHOW": What they're reflecting is the bad analogies, I would say, like, with all due respect, what you just heard.

Mamdani is not angry. Mamdani is not on the fringe. Mamdani is no comparison to Tucker Carlson. So I think people are upset about the both-sides-ism. You have one party with their leader talking about punishable by death, and the other party that's quoting the Constitution and talking about affordability.

So the both-sides-ism, I think, is getting really exhausting. And how ugly does this president have to get for people to wake up and say this is disgusting and offensive and just wrong and hurts the American people at large?

BROWN: All right. So I want to go back to you then, Michael, because a big issue on Capitol Hill, talking about the divide within the parties, your point was the Epstein files. There was all this whiplash with Republicans.

Most got on board except for one on passing that law. And then the president signed it. What have your listeners been saying about that?

MEDVED: Well, again, I think people are tired of it. And the fact that it's going to be 30 more days before all of the details come out, I think this highlights the tone of anger that we have right now.

Look, the truth of the matter is, President Trump is often echoing some of these more extreme and strident calls that seem to be getting all the attention. And it's not just Mamdani. What's extraordinary about Mamdani is, you have somebody elected a mayor of America's largest city, plus the new mayor we just elected here in the Seattle area, and who are openly a Democratic socialists.

And this is something that is -- represents a split in both major parties that you have, where the people who are fascinated with the MAGA civil war, they call it, are mostly Democrats and the people who are fascinated by some of the more strident voices on the Democratic side are mostly Republicans.

So you have this echo chambers coming against each other.

BROWN: Clay, I want to bring you back in. What are your listeners saying about the Epstein files? How engaged are they on this issue?

CANE: Well, finally.

I mean, let's be clear. The Trump administration made this a big talking point, Pam Bondi talking about the list on her desk. And it appears Republicans are going to try to remix this and try to turn it on the Democrats.

[12:00:10]

But I think what I'm also hearing is that they don't know if this will break up the cult of MAGA, if you will, that it appears people might still stand beside him.

BROWN: OK. CANE: Yes.

BROWN: Yes. All right, gotcha. I'm sorry. We are out of time, but I'm glad you both got to say a bit.

Clay Cane, Michael Medved, thank you so much -- Wolf.

MEDVED: Thank you.

BLITZER: And, to our viewers, thanks very much for joining us this morning.

"INSIDE POLITICS WITH DANA BASH" starts right now.