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The Situation Room

Old Navy Courts Inflation-Weary Customers; Interview With Rep. Jamie Raskin (D-MD). Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired November 24, 2025 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:00]

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[11:33:22]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Happening now: Survivors of Jeffrey Epstein's abuse and the American public are still awaiting the full release of the Epstein case files.

After moments of delay, President Trump signed a bill passed nearly unanimously by Congress into law last week that compels the Justice Department to make those materials public within 30 days.

Joining us now to discuss this and more is Congressman Jamie Raskin of Maryland. He is the top Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee.

Hi, Congressman. Thank you for coming on the show.

So, first off, do you have any updates on when the Justice Department plans to release the Epstein files?

REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): No updates, but we are fully expecting and demanding complete disclosure of the Epstein files, just with the names of victims redacted where it's appropriate.

BROWN: How will you be able to determine if it's complete disclosure with redactions, though? Because there have been some concerns that DOJ has its investigation now into Democrats and Epstein and it may not be releasing everything that Democrats want to see.

RASKIN: Well, yes, and it's not just Democrats, of course. It's everybody in Congress who's now voted for this. And so we're expecting a release of the complete file.

But I know, wherever I go, people are asking, how are you going to keep them from destroying the file? How are you going to get them from -- how do you stop them from altering the file? And it is a sign of the times that people just have no confidence in the Trump administration's Department of Justice and the government to turn over what the documents really are.

[11:35:00] But there are lots of people who have seen those different documents,

lots of prosecutors in different places who've seen them. And there are copies of a lot of the memos and e-mails presumably with the Epstein estate as well. So they better not be playing any games with us, because we are talking about a federal law that they're -- they would be violating if they did anything to obstruct Congress' purpose here.

BROWN: And you're right. It is both Democrats and Republicans. That bill passed nearly unanimously after a lot of back-and-forth in the Republican Party.

I want to ask you about Democratic Congresswoman Stacey Plaskett. Last week, as you know, there was a failed censure effort over her text with Epstein during an oversight hearing in 2019. He was a known sex offender. She acknowledged Epstein's influence in her line of questioning during that hearing on this show when we had her on, but would not say it was an error in judgment.

Here is how you defended her on the House floor last week, so our viewers can listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RASKIN: However ill-advised it may have been, she took a phone call from one of her constituents. They have arraigned a Democratic member for taking a phone call from her constituent Jeffrey Epstein in the middle of a hearing. And, of course, I don't think there is any rule here against taking phone calls in a hearing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And, to be clear, she initiated the text chain on that day. But are Democrats losing the moral high ground on the Epstein issue by defending her, as you have?

RASKIN: Well, look, we have been demanding a complete release of the file. And now they wanted to discipline her, censure her because she'd engage in that text exchange with a convicted criminal.

Of course, our Republican colleagues engage in text exchanges all the time with Donald Trump, who has 34 felony criminal offenses to his name. So I don't know exactly what she's being charged with there.

My point was simply, she had not violated the Constitution, she had not violated federal law, and she had not violated, to my knowledge, any rule of the House of Representatives.

So, look, we're not afraid of anything that's in the Epstein files and we want to see justice done for the survivors. That's what this is about. We want to see the truth come out. And it's the Republicans who are running around trying to figure out who's in there and who's going to be implicated.

And that's not our approach to it. But Stacey Plaskett obviously didn't violate any law, or -- they didn't even allege that she violated a rule of the House of Representatives. What rule did she violate? People text and e-mail and call us all the time. I mean, do I have anything to do with Jeffrey Epstein?

And it's unfortunate that he's got some people's phone numbers, but he's no longer with us. The point now is, can we do justice for the victims and the survivors of this nightmare? Because we're talking about hundreds and hundreds of crimes that were committed, if not thousands of crimes that were committed by a billion-dollar enterprise.

BROWN: Yes, and we've been focusing on that on this show.

RASKIN: Yes.

BROWN: Yes, and we have had many victims on and we have been very focused on that.

Just to be clear, you used the example of the president. Texting with the president of the United States is different than a pedophile, right? I mean, Jeffrey Epstein was more than just a constituent. He was...

RASKIN: Well...

BROWN: Hold on. Hold on. Let me just finish. He was a known sex offender. He was also a donor, right? He was a donor. And Stacey Plaskett in her deposition in 2023 acknowledged she went to Epstein's New York home to solicit money for the Democratic Party in 2018.

So I guess my question for you is, I know you have a relationship with her. You were an impeachment manager with her, right? But if this were a Republican in the same situation, would you still excuse it?

RASKIN: Well, in other words, are you saying, would I want to censure someone just because they had a phone call with a convicted felon and an adjudicated sex assailant? Because that's what Donald Trump is.

Remember, he's got an adjudicated sexual assault charge in New York that he was convicted of, in addition to the 34 criminal felonies. So I'm not quite sure what your point is here. Should we be censuring anybody who's on a phone call with a felon?

BROWN: Well, no, I'm not saying that. I'm saying, would you be defending a Republican who was in the same position, texting with Jeffrey Epstein?

RASKIN: Yes. Oh, I did.

BROWN: Texting with Jeffrey Epstein after it was -- he was a known convicted sex offender and just be calling it a constituent, when in fact he was a donor and there was more there?

(CROSSTALK)

RASKIN: Well, I mean, we could take the example of the Republican serial liar and fraudster from New York -- I'm spacing his name out right now who was -- who left Congress, who was just pardoned by...

[11:40:03]

BROWN: George Santos? Is that who you're talking about, George Santos?

RASKIN: George Santos. I...

BROWN: OK.

RASKIN: Yes, I defended -- I defended George Santos,

They wanted to expel him because they considered him inconvenient, but he had not had a criminal conviction, he had not had a civil conviction, and he had not gone through the ethics process. And that was my whole point with Stacey Plaskett.

If you think she's violated a federal law or a rule of the House, charge her with it, and let's take it through the Ethics Committee. But she hadn't been charged with anything. That was my simple point.

And I know the Republicans are saying the Democrats defended Stacey Plaskett with respect to Jeffrey Epstein. We did not. We said, we need to have a process here. She's not charged criminally, she's not charged civilly, and you haven't lodged any ethics complaint against her.

And I said the exact same thing with George Santos.

BROWN: OK. Yes.

RASKIN: And you can go back and see that I voted not to expel him because there was no process.

BROWN: So, just to be clear, you weren't defending her and that text exchange?

RASKIN: I'm sorry. I was not morally defending her. Like I said, Jeffrey Epstein never had my phone number. I would never give it to him. But that's not the standard whether or not we censure someone and use the disciplinary process in Congress against them. So that's just Republican propaganda.

I mean, they understood exactly what they were saying there.

BROWN: OK. I -- well, that's why I wanted to ask you about that, because that had gotten a lot of play, and Republicans had been talking about that and saying that there is a double standard.

RASKIN: Yes.

BROWN: And, obviously, you have been on the forefront of the Epstein issue, wanting to release the files in recent months.

And just wondering. The reality is you say, we're not afraid of anything. But the reality is, a lot more could come out when these files, if and when these files are released to the public, right, for Republicans and for Democrats, right? Jeffrey Epstein was a donor to both parties.

Are Democrats having discussions about how to handle that if more members of your party are embroiled in anything having to do with Epstein?

RASKIN: I literally have not had one Democrat in the House or the Senate or a former administrative official come to us and say, hey, you better slow down. That might embarrass one of our people.

I mean, I -- Lawrence Summers, Larry Summers, has had to resign from a whole bunch of boards and is apparently saying he's ashamed and disgraced by what's come out. Well, then that was a decision that he made. And, like, we hold no brief for him. Nobody should be involved with a billion-dollar international global child sex trafficking ring.

If you listen to the survivors on your show, for example, people will know that the people involved in that were guilty of some very gruesome actions.

BROWN: Yes.

RASKIN: And so to the extent that people are involved in it, they're going to have to own up to it. And if there are continuing crimes that have gone on or other crimes that weren't prosecuted, that should be part of this process.

But, remember, it was the Trump Department of Justice that summoned all the materials, took the case away from Maurene Comey in New York, and then they killed the investigation in February. They said there's nothing left to see here.

And it's only because we have demanded the release of the files that it's possible that there will be more justice done when discoveries are made about whether there was abuse and rape that took place and trafficking of other individuals.

But, remember, the Trump Justice Department tried to kill it.

BROWN: Yes. No, you're right. They did release that memo saying there's nothing here, Jeffrey Epstein died by suicide, there was no client list.

But just to follow up, even if no one in the Democratic Party is implicated in being part of Epstein's ring, if there are more communications that come out, right, I mean, are there any discussions about how to handle that? Because we have already seen the fallout from that with other Democrats and Epstein.

RASKIN: Yes, I mean, I just don't know what to say about it.

It's a sign of the times here that everything is viewed through such a partisan lens. I mean, if there are people involved with a child sex abuse trafficker, if they committed crimes, then they should be investigated and prosecuted with all the protections of due process. And if they were just involved in some kind of social relationship or

whatever, people can figure that out. I mean, that was the whole point about Stacey Plaskett. For some reason, he had Stacey's phone number. They'd been in communication.

And so she takes the hit for that publicly that they communicated, but nobody's accusing her of having committed a crime. And nobody's accusing her of violating a rule of ethics. It's not against our ethics rules for people to get texts in Congress.

So the whole point of the rule of law is that we can make these kinds of distinctions, and they shouldn't be difficult to make. There's a difference between flying to Jeffrey Epstein's island and engaging in sexual abuse of minors, and then somebody getting, whatever, a phone call or a text.

[11:45:10]

BROWN: Right.

And, as you know, Congressman, you have been in Washington a long time. There's the legal aspect, right, and then there's the politics of it, right? And those are two separate issues.

Congressman Jamie Raskin, thank you so much for your time. I hope you have a nice Thanksgiving.

RASKIN: Yes, indeed. Happy Thanksgiving.

BROWN: Thank you.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: And up next, CNN goes inside the popular store Old Navy for a SITUATION ROOM special report, the product expansions and shopping tag technology the retailer is rolling out to combat rising prices this holiday shopping season.

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[11:50:39]

BLITZER: New this morning, the Treasury secretary, Scott Bessent, says rising prices have nothing to do with tariffs. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT BESSENT, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: If you look at the data, that imported goods, the inflation has actually been flat. Inflation is up because of the service economy and services, so that has nothing to do with tariffs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: This holiday season, retailers like Old Navy are pulling out all the stops and trying to woo inflation-weary customers.

BROWN: CNN business and politics correspondent Vanessa Yurkevich joins us.

Now, Vanessa, you talked to Old Navy's CEO about how they're planning to expand during this time of uncertainty and how they're betting on Christmas P.J.s to do it. Tell us more.

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Pamela and Wolf, it's really anyone's guess just how the U.S. consumer is going to show up this holiday season. So retailers are really trying their best to pull out all the stops.

We know that Old Navy has done really well in their holiday pajamas category, so they're going all in on that. But the company also knows that they need newness, something new to retain customers and attract new customers, so they are bringing in one of America's top fashion talents to help them do that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

YURKEVICH: Zac and Old Navy, did you see it coming?

ZAC POSEN, CHIEF CREATIVE OFFICER, OLD NAVY: Never.

YURKEVICH: OK, so what turned the tide for you?

POSEN: This was the opportunity of a lifetime. This is the brand that dresses America.

YURKEVICH (voice-over): Zac Posen, one of America's most well-known couture fashion designers, is now Old Navy's chief creative officer, overseeing design, merchandise and marketing at the low-cost retailer.

(on camera): Where's the Zac Posen touch?

POSEN: A few places. I will show you. I mean, I'm throughout here. I can see different moments here, beautiful color story on top there. I can't talk about holiday without talking about our jammies and our Jingle Jammies.

YURKEVICH: Yes.

(voice-over): Old Navy's holiday pajamas are one of its most reliable moneymakers. It sells millions of them each year during the all- important holiday season. But, this year, the brand is betting on new to win over shoppers, new occasion-wear, beauty and a designer collaboration.

(on camera): Anna Sui, that collection is the first designer collection with Old Navy. Was that you?

POSEN: It was.

YURKEVICH: Yes. And why -- and why...

POSEN: I was really proud. I was really excited.

YURKEVICH (voice-over): This season, retailers are taking bigger swings to stand out in a sea of cautious consumers. Americans are spending more carefully.Tariffs, sticky inflation, and rising unemployment are creating an unpredictable holiday season.

HORACIO BARBEITO, PRESIDENT AND CEO, OLD NAVY: If there's going to be uncertainty, we will not participate.

YURKEVICH (on camera): How do you not participate? It's inevitable.

BARBEITO: Well, because we're hosting customers and we're seeing them coming here and really being happy and engaging with merchandise and prepare for family moments.

YURKEVICH: But I don't get it. How can you not participate? Because you have to respond to that, the uncertainty.

BARBEITO: Well, we know that they're looking for value. They're looking for -- they're also looking for style.

YURKEVICH (voice-over): Old Navy, owned by Gap Inc., has been a key driver for its parent company. It just reported better-than-expected third-quarter earnings, with Old Navy's revenue rising by 5 percent year over year. But tariffs remain a significant headwind.

BARBEITO: Tariff is something that is across the industry. Agility is super important. RFID, for example, that we're rolling out in our entire fleet is giving us that accuracy of inventory position to better flow, better buy, better replenish.

YURKEVICH: Here's how that RFID technology works. A shopper comes to the store looking for an extra small green flannel pajama pant. But it's not where it's supposed to be. Using antennas in the ceiling and radio frequency to scan merchandise tags on the floor, the associate can locate those pants anywhere in the store.

(on camera): RFID sounds very efficient, but how does it help the bottom line?

BARBEITO: You don't lose sales, or you minimize the sales loss. You don't waste customer trips, which is so important, and especially now that a lot of customers are coming back to stores.

YURKEVICH (voice-over): But lower-income Americans, part of Old Navy's core customer base, are particularly under pressure. So the speed at which the company needs to both provide affordability and broaden their customer base is even more critical.

POSEN: I mean, we're always about the consumer.

YURKEVICH (on camera): Right, but I guess in a way that this year may be just a little bit different.

POSEN: Of course. Every year has its challenges.

[11:55:00]

YURKEVICH: Sure. POSEN: Sometimes, it's the economy. Sometimes, it's the weather.

Sometimes, it's a change of an administration. And at the end of the day, people want to look good, they want to feel good, and that line continues. And I think, when things can be more challenging, we rise to the occasion.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

YURKEVICH: Now, Wells Fargo predicts that holiday sales are going to rise 3.5 to 4 percent this year, but that is actually not adjusted for inflation. So, in fact, holiday spending could be flat.

And one thing we heard from so many retailers, Pam and Wolf, is that they have been very careful to try to get their inventory just right, not too much, not too little, just right, because the biggest issue this holiday season is that if somehow spending is actually pulled back dramatically, retailers don't want to get stuck with too much inventory.

They will have to offer a lot of sales. And that is something that retailers just don't want to even think about. We will get more information, Pam and Wolf, after the key Black Friday and Cyber Monday shopping period. We will start to see just where these consumers are at this holiday season.

BLITZER: Excellent work.

Vanessa Yurkevich, thank you very, very much.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: And, to our viewers, thanks very much for joining us.

BROWN: I was just going to say, Wolf can't wait for his Christmas P.J.s from Old Navy.

(LAUGHTER)

BROWN: "INSIDE POLITICS WITH DANA BASH" today with Audie Cornish starts right now.