Return to Transcripts main page

The Situation Room

U.S. Official Says Ukraine Has Agreed to a Peace Deal But Zelenskyy Says Much Work Needs to be Done; More Lawmakers Respond to Pentagon's Probe into Sen. Mark Kelly (D-AZ); DOJ Vows to Appeal After Judge Tosses Comey and James Cases. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired November 25, 2025 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:00:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, breaking news, new questions this morning about a potential peace agreement because a U.S. official is saying Ukraine has agreed to a deal that would end Russia's war, but President Zelenskyy says, more work needs to be done. The big question this morning, how will Russia respond as negotiations with the Kremlin are underway?

Also, police -- made more arrests in connection with the $100 million heist at the world's most visited museum.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Plus, quote, I will not be intimidated, end quote. Senator Mark Kelly doubles down after the Pentagon threatened to investigate him for telling troops to refuse, quote, illegal orders, new information emerging here in The Situation Room about plans to punish the former U.S. Navy combat pilot.

And travel surge, millions of American flyers are on the move this Thanksgiving, marking the busiest holiday travel season in some 15 years. The record-breaking numbers hitting the roads and the roadways -- the runways, I should say.

Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer with Pamela Brown, and you're in The Situation Room.

And we begin with the major breaking news. A U.S. official tells CNN that Ukraine has agreed to a peace proposal to end the war in Ukraine. The official saying, and I'm quoting this official now, there are some minor details to be sorted out, but they have agreed to a peace deal, end quote.

A senior Ukrainian official says the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, could visit the United States in the next few days to try to finalize the deal with President Trump. And U.S. Army Secretary Dan Driscoll is in Abu Dhabi right now. He's meeting with Russian officials there to go over the agreement.

BROWN: It would end the war that began almost four years ago when Russia forces invaded Ukraine. An estimated quarter of a million Russian soldiers and at least 60,000 Ukrainian troops have died in this conflict. But as you know, Wolf, we have been here before with both sides trying to come to a deal and it didn't happen. So, questions still remain.

BLITZER: There is no deal until all the sides agree to a deal and that's going to take some time, presumably right now. But they seem to be getting, Pamela, a little bit closer right now.

BROWN: Yes, we'll see.

BLITZER: We have full coverage of all these dramatic, really important fast moving developments.

CNN Correspondent Clair Sebastian, CNN White House Reporter Alayna Treene and CNN Chief International Anchor Christiane Amanpour is joining us right now.

Alayna, let me go to the White House first. What's the latest you're hearing from officials there?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Look, I think it's clear that the posture of this White House and the Trump administration is to try and put maximum pressure really on both sides to try and come to an agreement here. And they've been very optimistic in a lot of the rhetoric that they are using, particularly what our colleagues, Natasha Bertran and Oren Liebermann, are hearing now from a U.S. official, essentially saying that Ukraine has agreed to this broad deal, or at least the broad strokes of a potential proposal with minor details to be worked out.

I think the caveat here is that's what we're hearing from the U.S. side, and they're trying to have this posture right now of saying that they are very close to an agreement. But, of course, we know we haven't seen a document yet. We haven't seen the details of what the Ukrainians are ready to come to the table on and what the Russians are ready to go to the table on. And that's why you have the Army secretary, Dan Driscoll, in Abu Dhabi right now meeting with the Russians that follows a broader round of negotiations in Geneva on Sunday with Secretary of State Marco Rubio, saying he believes that they are closer than they have ever been.

And that is a huge deal, but I would caution that there's still so much more that needs to be done. But the Trump administration very much eager to build on the momentum of these talks and see if they can drive this closer to the finish line.

BROWN: All right. So, let's bring in Clare Sebastian. Clare, what more are we hearing from Ukrainian and Russian officials about this?

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Ukrainian officials, Pamela, are a little bit more circumspect than what we're hearing from the White House. We heard from Rustem Umerov, who's a key aide to President Zelenskyy, a key negotiator in these talks, that our delegations, he said, reached a common understanding on the core terms of the agreement discussed in Geneva.

[10:05:00]

But he is pushing for a meeting, you know, hopefully in the coming days between Zelenskyy and Trump. Zelenskyy has made it clear he wants to discuss the most sensitive parts of any peace deal with Trump himself, and he has said today that he thinks there's more work to be done on a deal. So, that's Ukraine's position here that they've made progress, but there's still more work to be done.

On the Russian side, I think we've had a bit more clarity today on what they are thinking. President Putin said on Monday that he feels the 28-point plan that came out at the end of last week that, you know, talks about territorial concessions by Ukraine, including of land that they still control, of giving up any hopes of membership to NATO, that he thinks forms the basis of any future peace agreement.

The foreign minister, Sergey Lavrov, went even further today, saying that any plan essentially that deviates from that would mean a completely different situation, essentially unacceptable to Russia. So, that's their position. And they, you know, are removable on this. And I think that 28-point police plan has given Russia hope that they can get those points that are in that plan, that they have been pushing forward all along. Pamela?

BROWN: All right. Thank you, Clare.

BLITZER: All right, let me bring in Christiane Amanpour. Christiane, the original proposal called for Ukraine to give up territory Russia had not yet even captured, and it blocked NATO membership for Ukraine and limited the size of Ukraine's military. Are any of those points likely to be in any final agreement?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: It doesn't appear. So, frankly, all you need to hear is what Clare Sebastian just said that Putin and his people in the -- sorry, not the Pentagon, maybe, I don't know, but in Moscow are saying their maximalist demands again and again and again, as they have done since the beginning.

According to the Europeans and according to the Ukrainians, Putin has not shifted what he wants out of this war and what it'll take to get him to stop. First and foremost, he's never agreed to ceasefire, but Ukraine has.

Secondly, he, as you pointed out, says that he wants land even that they do not control. I've never heard of that before in all the years of covering war and peace negotiations.

Thirdly, that they want to control Ukraine's military, its size, its deployment, all the rest of it, doesn't want to have anything to do with NATO for Ukraine. So, it's Russia's maximalist demands, which means basically neutering Ukraine as an independent and sovereign democratic state.

So, Ukraine is clearly not putting up with that and nor is Europe. Of course, neither of those two parties were involved in the original so- called 28-point plan that was then leaked in full. So, this past weekend has involved Secretary of State Marco Rubio dashing for some shuttle diplomacy to Geneva to try to rescue this, which has been described variously as a disgrace, a disaster, nothing more than a surrender or capitulation, and try to move it back from what looks to be a very pro-Russian and maybe even Russian deal. So, that's what's happened there.

European leaders are saying very similar things. President Macron of France said, we do want peace, and we're glad that President Trump is trying to get peace, but not at any cost. The high commissioner for foreign affairs at the E.U., Kaja Kallas, former Estonian prime minister, said just today as well that it is impossible to have a nation invade another nation, i.e. Russia invading Ukraine, and then reward the aggressor. We cannot tolerate that because that will, A, be against international law and, B, will put us all in much more danger to come.

So -- and then when you get to this American claim of an agreement by Ukraine, that is somewhat -- as you heard from Alayna and from Clare, that is being walked back or rather modified by Ukraine, which is said in Zelenskyy's words over the weekend when the original thing was leaked, he said, we face a terrible choice right now between our ally, the United States, and between our dignity as a nation.

So, you can see where he's coming from. And the very close advisers to the president, to his chief of staff, to their defense minister, has said, and I will, quote, there is no document, there is no final version of the document at the moment. There is a working version. The main reason is that some issues have been left out and they say, from their perspective, the Ukrainians, that this can only finally be dealt with actual face-to-face or some kind of meeting between the two presidents, Zelenskyy and Trump.

You know, it would be great if they could get all three presidents around a table, Zelenskyy, Trump, Putin, and the Europeans who are involved as well, as did happen 30 years ago at Dayton, which was commemorated and celebrated to end the Bosnia war. That's what it takes, a ceasefire and then getting a working document that most sides can agree on, and then getting all the parties together around a table. So, we are, it appears, a little bit far from that end state right now.

[10:10:02]

BLITZER: Yes. To me, it appears that we're still pretty far away from it. And what also jumped out at me, Christiane, I'm anxious to get your reaction, is what the Russian foreign minister, Sergey Lavrov, just said. He said, an amendment peace plan for Ukraine, in his words, must reflect the, quote, spirit and letter of understanding reached between President Putin and President Trump at the Alaska summit. I thought that was significant, but what does that say to you?

AMANPOUR: It says to me that the Alaska summit went absolutely nowhere. President Trump was disappointed with what he didn't get out of Putin. You remember? He was then going to meet him again, and then that collapsed. You remember that after that Alaska summit where he was given -- Putin was given a red carpet welcome, the Europeans essentially banded together, rushed to support Zelenskyy, rushed to try, well, to meet with President Trump and his officials because that wasn't going to fly, because, again, it was Putin's maximalist goals.

They -- I mean, I guess they can have whatever goals they want, but actual facts on the ground show, and let's not forget that this is not a just a 4-year invasion. It's a 12-year invasion by Putin, first annexing Crimea and invading the east of the Donbas area. In 12 years since 2014, he has not reached his goals on the ground. And so why would anybody want to help reach those goals on the ground, which are against international law, and certainly are a matter of war and peace, not just for Ukraine, but for the whole European continent, and also have an effect on America's, you know, broader picture national security and influence in the world? And why would Ukraine want to do that right now?

So, there does need to be a fairer peace plan put forward, and we wait to see what this amendment, which we've been told about by the Americans, by the Europeans, by the Ukrainians, what this amendment will show. And then I think there'll be more clarity on the analysis as to what this document and the proposals may produce.

But certainly, as you know, Marco Rubio, who really has shown himself not to want to appease communists -- has gone to Geneva over the weekend to try to bring this back to a place which is more reasonable.

BROWN: All right. Alayna, Clare, Christiane, thank you so much, always great to have you.

BLITZER: And there's other breaking news we're following here in The Situation Room, four new suspects have now been detained in connection with that brazen heist at the world renowned Louvre Museum. Paris prosecutors say two men and two women were detained by police as part of the investigation. They joined four other suspects who were detained and charged late last month.

The thieves raided the gallery that houses the French crown jewels back on October 19th. So far, the jewels have not been recovered.

BROWN: And still ahead here in The Situation Room, speaking out. We are hearing from Democratic Senator Mark Kelly since the Defense Department announced its investigating the retired Navy captain over a video that President Trump deems, quote, seditious. We have some new reporting just in about additional measures the department is looking at. What an official just told me this morning coming up after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:15:00]

BLITZER: New this morning more law, more lawmakers are responding to the Pentagon's announcement that it's investigating Senator Mark Kelly, a retired U.S. Navy captain, in light of, quote, serious allegations of misconduct, end quote. This after Kelly joined five other Democratic members of Congress in a video urging troops to disobey illegal orders.

And that video prompted President Trump to label their actions, quote, seditious behavior, punishable by death, end quote. And now the U.S. Defense Department says it could recall Kelly to active duty to face a court martial or administrative punishment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): I've had a missile blow up next to my airplane. I've been shot down, nearly shot down multiple times. My wife, Gabby Giffords, meeting with her constituents, shot in the head, six people killed around her.

We know what political violence is and we know what causes it too. You know, the statements that Donald Trump made is inciteful, incites others. He's got millions of supporters. People listen to what he says more so than anybody else in the country, and he should be careful with his words. But I'm not going to be silenced here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: An official familiar with the matter tells me this morning that the Pentagon is looking at reducing Kelly's rank and pension pay, and that's what was meant by administrative punishment.

So, I want to bring in CNN Senior National Security Reporter Zachary Cohen. Zachary, what more are you learning from your sources about this probe?

ZACHARY COHEN, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes. I'm also hearing that Hegseth and the Pentagon is going to get a variety of options, ways to effectively punish Senator Kelly for participating in this video, where lawmakers did encourage troops to remember that they can refuse and have an obligation to refuse illegal orders.

Now, obviously, Senator Kelly is not the only lawmaker to appear in that video but he is the only one who can technically be recalled into active duty. And that's what Hegseth and his team are looking at using the military justice system potentially to respond to this video. And also, you know, as far as administrative punishments go, you're right, I'm also hearing that they could try to knock him down in rank. They could try to lower his pension. But if he's court-martialed, I'm also told that he'll be treated like any other defendant in that case. So, really, it does seem, they're trying to make an example out of Senator Kelly.

[10:20:01]

Now, as you showed previously, he is being defiant. He is saying that this is about politics and that he's being targeted for political purposes by the administration. He responded to the announcement from Secretary Hegseth in the Pentagon by saying, if this is meant to intimidate me and other members of Congress from doing our jobs, it won't work. He says -- he goes on to say that he is given too much to this country to be bullied by people who value their power more than the Constitution. BROWN: And just to be clear, it's unusual for a veteran to be brought back to active duty, to be court-martialed for something that didn't happen while they were in service, right.

COHEN: Absolutely, it's very unusual.

BROWN: Yes. All right, Zachary, thanks so much.

BLITZER: Pretty extraordinary developments indeed. I want to get some more analysis right now. I want to bring in former Deputy Pentagon Press Secretary under President Biden Sabrina Singh. She's also a CNN global affairs commentator.

I'm curious, Sabrina, what went through your mind when you first saw the news from the Defense Department that it may recall Senator Kelly to active duty to face a court martial or what they call administrative punishment?

SABRINA SINGH, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, you know, it's not a surprise that Donald Trump is using different levers of the government to go after his so-called perceived political enemies. You know, we've seen that with the Department of Justice and now with DOD using the Uniform Code of Military Justice to justify these actions.

So, while it wasn't a surprise, I think if Hegseth does follow through with this threat, it would be unprecedented. I mean, we have nearly 2 million veterans in this country and they have to be fearing for potential retribution of, you know, speaking out against this administration. What does that mean for them as well?

So, it would be unprecedented for the military to do this, and it would certainly send a ripple effect, not just with veterans, but I think throughout the military community.

BROWN: And as I just reported, an official told me that they're looking at reducing his rank and pension payment if he's not court- martialed. It was interesting because Pete Hegseth, the DOD secretary, or secretary of war, should we say, on X said, called him commander and not captain.

SINGH: Yes.

BROWN: Commander is a rank down but Mark Kelly was a captain in the Navy.

SINGH: He was a combat pilot. He was an astronaut. He is someone that has served multiple tours of duty overseas, you know, put his line on the life for his country. You saw him talk about how he had something explode by an aircraft that he was flying. This is someone that has decades of service and that has done something to protect Americans overseas.

And so, you know, what Hegseth is doing by calling him commander, I mean, of course that was a very intentional by Pete Hegseth to put that out there, but what he's doing is he's saying that what Mark Kelly said in his video citing -- literally citing the Uniform Code of Military Justice, hauling him back in under those same provisions, it's just like a circular logic, it just doesn't make sense and I don't think a court is going to uphold that. But, of course, this is going to have ripple effects, I think, for this country.

And that's why you're seeing so many people speak out. Even if you didn't agree with the video that those six lawmakers put out, it's still free speech. They still have the right to do that. And so their rights are protected by our Constitution.

BLITZER: Let's take a step back for a moment, Sabrina, while I have you. Explain why and in what circumstances a former service member who's no longer in active duty could be recalled to active duty status to face a court-martial.

SINGH: Well, that's why this would be something so unprecedented. I mean, he's been a United States Senator for many years now. Actions taken -- you know, they're claiming that actions taken by this video would allow him to be recalled back in. But that's only during if he committed some type of crime during service.

So, again, something like this, I think, is what is making the military veterans very concerned because we have nearly 2 million people in our country that have served. And what does that mean if they speak out against this administration? Are they going to be court-martialed and called back in? It's just -- it would really be a scary precedent to set if this administration does this.

BLITZER: They're going to lose some of their pay too if they continue receiving even when they're not in active duty.

BROWN: Yes. And on that note about the veterans, another veteran in Congress, Republican Don Bacon of Nebraska, wrote on X, quote, amateur hour once again at the Department of Defense. I thought the video by six Dems was unnecessary and foolish, but the threats of sedition charges and courts martial in response are also crazy. Let's show some common sense and restraint.

SINGH: You know, I think he's right. You might not agree with the video, you might not agree with the timing of the video, but everything that they said in there it's truthful and it's protected by their own free speech. I think it is a bit of amateur hour that we're seeing yet again from Pete Hegseth, and, I mean, it's notable that Pete Hegseth, the timing of this when he's doing it, his Army secretary is overseas negotiating a, you know, potential peace deal with Ukraine. Hegseth has been broadly sidelined from those negotiations.

So, he's playing to an audience of one, Donald Trump and he knows he has to reassert relevancy and he's doing it through his actions with Mark Kelly.

BLITZER: That's interesting because the secretary of the Army is in Abu Dhabi meeting with Russian officials on this potential Ukrainian deal.

[10:25:06] Let's see what happens on that front, but you make an important point.

Sabrina Singh, thank you very, very much. Pamela?

BROWN: Thank you so much.

And coming up here in The Situation Room, vowing to appeal, a look at the Justice Department's next move after a federal judge dismisses the cases against two of President Trump's political targets.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Happening now, the Trump administration appears undeterred after another leg of the president's revenge tour hit a roadblock.

[10:30:00]

Attorney General Pam Bondi is promising to fight a judge's decision to toss out the criminal cases against former FBI Director James Comey and New York Attorney.