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The Situation Room

Lawmakers Question DHS Secretary Noem on Global Threats; Noem Testifies About Global Threats to U.S. at Annual Hearing. Aired 10- 10:30a ET

Aired December 11, 2025 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: And welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Pamela Brown. Wolf Blitzer is on assignment, and you are in The Situation Room.

And we begin with the breaking news. A key Congressional committee is about to hear from Trump administration officials about global threats to the United States. Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem will be front and center at this annual hearing. And we're also going to hear from the director of the National Counterterrorism Center and a top FBI official. Noem is likely to face intense questioning, especially from Democrats on everything, from the White House's immigration, crackdowns to the escalating tensions with Venezuela and more.

President Trump was asked about her yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I registered (ph) recently I'm unhappy with. Christie, I'm so happy with it. I mean, we have a closed border. We have a border that's the best border in the history of our country. Why would I be unhappy? She's fantastic actually.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: CNN recently reported. The White House is preparing for possible cabinet turnover after the one year mark of Trump's second term, and DHS is among the agencies that could see change.

Well, we have an all-star group to discuss here in The Situation Room, New York Times Correspondent David Sanger, he is a CNN political and national security analyst, former Deputy Pentagon Press Secretary and CNN Global Affairs Commentator Sabrina Singh. Former FBI, deputy Director and CNN Senior Law Enforcement Analyst Andrew McCabe, and former NATO Supreme Allied Commander, retired General Wesley Clark. Great to have all of you here with us.

David, I want to kick it off with you. I imagine immigration and Venezuela will be some of the main areas of focus at this hearing. What do you think are some of the biggest questions Secretary Noem is facing today as we see here inside the hearing room, we see Noem right there? All right, go ahead.

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Pamela, there are a couple of things that I think Christie no's going to be on the hot seat for. Number one, of course, is the legality of some of the deportations that she has not only encouraged, but celebrated. You've seen her out there with them. And if she's running into increasing resistance from the courts, which are asking her and other members of the administration to explain everything, from their interpretations of the Alien Enemies Act, which goes back to the late 1700s, which they have used for a number of deportations without much due process, to the questions of whether or not they ignored a judge's order in sending some of the prisoners to El Salvador. So, she's got this range of these issues.

There's one other, since it's a global threats issue, we'd love to hear from her about, and she hasn't spoken much about, they have pretty much disassembled at the Department of Homeland Security the cybersecurity and infrastructure security agency, which is a huge part of DHS. And we've seen a surge in foreign cyber attacks on the United States, some very sophisticated. She has been so focused on the issues of immigration that we have not seen what the premier agency that's supposed to do the defense of the United States is up to these days, or even whether it can do it anymore.

BROWN: That's a really important point. And, of course, there's also the issue of Venezuela. Sabrina, we know DHS was involved in the seizure of this oil tinker off the coast of Venezuela. You have some knowledge about this specific ship. What do you make of this move?

SABRINA SINGH, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: Well, this was a ship that was sanctioned under the Trump and Biden administration, and I believe sanctions were actually in 2022. This was something that the Biden administration was monitoring, that the ship was funneling smuggled oil between Middle East countries, likely Iran, and then also between Venezuela.

What happened here is what we have seen and what some of the videos shows that DOJ put out is our Coast Guard taking action. And this was law enforcement action that you saw because this was oil moving that was on a sanctioned ship.

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And so this was actually something that we do very well. We did it under the Biden administration in 2023 in April. We seized an Iranian tanker that was moving oil that was sanctioned.

And so, you know, I think lawmakers, particularly Democrats, will have more questions about this. Because at the end of the day, this is something that the Coast Guard did of interdicting a ship. Why aren't they doing that with those boats that they're blowing up? Why is a military presence really needed to continue to conduct some of those strikes?

And so I think Democratic lawmakers in particular are going to really grill Noem on why aren't we using our law enforcement in the way that they really should be used, which was a perfect example of that ship being seized.

BROWN: Yes. And what do you think about that? How big that of an issue that's going to be and the fact that Kash Patel, the leader of the FBI, isn't actually going to be there testifying. We see the leaders right there, Kash Patel, isn't there?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes, that's a little striking to me. I know having participated in numerous sessions, preparing FBI directors to testify at exactly this hearing. It's something that typically they spend weeks doing. They have binders and binders of material. You bring in teams of analysts to prepare them on different issues, everything from tactical and operational issues down to kind of administrivia, as it were, how many agents are working in particular programs and have we spent the money that Congress gave us last year against the appropriate threats, things of that nature.

So, to not have the director of the FBI sitting at that table, it's an unfortunate look, I think, for the FBI it and it doesn't really give this hearing sort of the prominence and the importance that it deserves.

I will say about the tanker. I think you're absolutely right. It's a win for our law enforcement authorities for our ability to enforce the law, U.S. law and sanctions, where this needs to happen. But it raises an unbelievably uncomfortable comparison for Secretary Noem to now explain, why are we not doing that with these alleged drug boats, which we have treated in this way as a law enforcement issue for decades? We have been seizing drug shipments in the Caribbean for decades through the Coast Guard and other law enforcement partners. So, it could be an un uncomfortable moment for her.

BROWN: Yes, that's a really important contrast that you just pointed out.

I want to bring in General Clark. General, what do you make of this move by the Trump administration on this oil tanker and the point that we just heard Andy make of the difference between the way that was handled versus these alleged drug boats?

GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET.), FORMER NATO SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER: I think the oil tanker was a target of opportunity. It's one of a number of vessels that has turns off its location and tries to maneuver without being detected. It was detected. It was seized by the Coast Guard in a very appropriate, effective and lawful manner. And all of this could have been done also against the drug boats. It just hasn't been done, I think, in part, because the administration wanted to project an image of force in accordance with the secretary of defense's discussion to the 800 officers.

He wants to project the Department of Defense or Department of War as a lethal agency. And so I think that's been behind it. It's a form of psychological warfare, but it also runs afoul of laws of armed conflict and international maritime practices. So, I think the Coast Guard set the example in this case.

BROWN: Yes. And we've heard DOD time and time again argue that these were legal strikes against these drug boats.

And, you know, when you look at all of this as big picture here, General Clark, you have the strikes, the seizure of the oil, tinker, everything going on, this activity off the coast of Venezuela, a lot of administration officials and analysts like yourself have speculated, is this part of regime change, right? You know, is that why this is happening? But then you had Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth recently saying that the U.S. is moving away from past policies of regime change. Do you believe that's really the case?

CLARK: Well, I think there's a little bit of inconsistency in what the administration's saying. Clearly, there's communications going on with the Nobel Peace Prize winner, Ms. Machado. I'm sure we've got people in there on the ground. I don't know that for a fact but I suspect it's true. I suspect we, have a number of plans underway and possible maybe demonstrations, violence could break out. The U.S. could be called on to assist in preventing it.

But, Pamela, if I could, I'd like to go back to something that David said on cyber. You know, the greatest threat to the United States, the greatest vulnerability is our electricity grid. And we know it's been targeted. It's got to be taken care of. And we know it has Chinese malware, both software and hardware embedded in transformers and other things in this grid. It should be a top priority.

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The Department of Homeland Security released a study in 2020, unclassified, that said that should anything happen, like an electromagnetic pulse to the electricity grid, it would be 80 percent fatalities to the American people in six months. We can't live without this electricity grid. And so anything that turns off the power and the insights of the cyber security and infrastructure protection group in Homeland Security is a real threat to America's wellbeing and security.

BROWN: And, Sabrina, I want you to weigh in on that because I know your former role at DOD, you're very aware of that threat.

SINGH: Yes. Cyber security -- I mean, the cyber domain is the next, you know, frontier and it's already here. We are seeing China, we're seeing other actors test, you know, our prominence all around the world. And, I mean, you had a massive hack under the Biden administration that happened, which was Salt Typhoon, that really went at our cybersecurity infrastructure.

And so I think the fact that they have gutted an office like that at DHS, they're pulling back funding at other agencies, including at the Department of Defense, where you're not seeing them prioritize, particularly when it comes to the adversary that we know could upend the rules-based order, which is China, and they're not prioritizing cyber, but instead, you know, focusing on, you know, videos like this or, you know, redirecting assets to the Caribbean to focus on the drug cartels.

I'm not saying that's not important. Stopping drugs coming into our country is something that we should be focused on. But how we do it and the assets that we use is fundamental. And what they are doing is moving military assets into a region that frankly needs law enforcement assets, needs DEA, needs Coast Guard assets, and they need to actually fund and keep assets like, or departments and offices like the cybersecurity office at DHS and fund, frankly, and scale others at the Department of Defense.

BROWN: Yes. And, you know, Venezuela has strategic relationships with adversaries. Well, they've historically been U.S. adversaries, such as Russia and China, right?

SINGH: Yes. And, I mean, the oil tanker that, you know, was interdicted by our Coast Guard was moving oil likely to Iran, like to the Middle East. And so while it is important that, you know, we, again, are focused on drugs coming into our country, it is also really important that we look at what our assets and where our platforms are.

And I think relations with China, which we know Venezuela has very deep ones, and Russia and others, this is where the priority needs to lie for this administration. We have to keep the ball on China. And I do think, and I'm curious to see what Kristi Noem says about this, what does it look like for our presence in the Indo-Pacific? How much attention is this administration really giving to China?

Because even the national security strategy that they rolled out does not emphasize China as an adversary. It actually sees it as like on par as like an economic trading partner, which is such a change from, you know, U.S. foreign policy for decades.

BROWN: Right. That's why I had to catch myself, say, historically --

SINGH: Historically, yes.

BROWN: -- the U.S. had considered China and Russia adversaries.

David, to bring you back in, you know, the Trump administration argues this push against Venezuela is about countering the illegal flow of drugs into the U.S., as we've been discussing. But how does this fold into the White House's broader immigration policy?

SANGER: Well, one of the things that I think has most struck people about the Venezuela operation is we still have not gotten a coherent explanation about what the U.S. strategic objectives are. So, drugs have been won, and you heard the president the other day in his speech on Tuesday maintain that drugs coming by sea are down by a terrific number. It doesn't surprise me after the release of those photographs. The question is, are those same drugs now just going by air or by land?

The second is, as we've been discussing here, important a priority as drugs are, this is largely heroin, it's not fentanyl, and coming out of Venezuela, it's largely going to Europe and Africa. So, when the president says every boat that is intercepted saves 25,000 American lives, that's a highly dubious statistic.

And I think the third question, and Sabrina got at this, is we haven't heard from this administration whether or not the hierarchy of threats that they're thinking about matches up with what we're seeing at a moment when our biggest threats are, in fact, from Russia and China, when China's the only country that's got the economic, military, technological ability to counter us, putting 15 or 20 percent of our naval assets in the Caribbean likely at the expense of the Indo- Pacific, that's a hard one to understand.

Understanding why you would dismantle the cybersecurity agency and still have no leadership, permanent leadership at the National Security Agency and U.S. Cyber Command, total mystery to us.

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BROWN: And on the domestic front, Andy, you know, something else that could come up is just the domestic threat, right, to the homeland. And after the assassination of conservative activist Charlie Kirk, we heard Trump administration officials point to left wing extremism as a big threat to U.S. national security. Of course, we know, unfortunately, violence happens on all ends of the political spectrum, but how much do you think that could be a focus today?

MCCABE: I think that's probably some of the questioning you'll see going to our FBI representative at the table, at Mr. Rashin (ph). Typically that's what the committee relies upon the FBI to bring to the table that sort of intel domestic Intelligence, which, of course, is the FBI is the kind of the lead on the collection and analysis of that information.

So -- but he'll get some tough questions around that. They'll get down, and they should get down in the weeds on, okay, so how many investigations are we talking about? We've heard the comments from the administration. Does what you're seeing in the investigative sphere actually support those assertions? Are there RICO cases against alleged Antifa operators right now? We know of one in Texas, but I'm not aware of any other than that one.

I think he'll also expect to get some pointed questions about how the FBI's shift of resources to assist DHS in immigration enforcement has impacted FBI operations. We know from the FBI's own numbers that they believe that of the top 20 field offices, the 20 largest field offices agents are spending 40 percent of their time on immigration enforcement.

It's important to realize that that is not work that the FBI has ever done. So, the entirety of that 40 percent of the workforce in those field offices is now 40 percent less time that they're spending on counterterrorism, on counterintelligence, on, you know, human trafficking, on child predators, all those really essential pieces of the FBI mission that no other agency does. So, I think he's going to -- I'll be interested to see what he has to say on issues like that.

BROWN: Yes. And, again, the FBI director is not there, which, as you pointed out earlier, is unusual. You've actually testified you had 24 hours to prepare, right, when you became acting director of the FBI.

MCCABE: Yes. That was not ideal, but, yes, it's an incredibly important place for the FBI director to represent the Bureau, its mission and most importantly the people that carry it out.

And so, obviously, Director Comey was scheduled to appear. He was terminated by President Trump maybe two days before the appearance. And so I thought it was essential that I, and filling in his acting director during that time, needed to be able to step up and represent the bureau, it was a tough appearance. As you might remember, there were a lot of questions about what was happening in the bureau at that time. But, you know, really important to be there. I think it's equally, if not more important, that Director Patel would be there today, but clearly he's not.

SINGH: Can I?

BROWN: Oh, go ahead. Yes.

SINGH: Well, I was just going to say to your point on assets being pulled from the department and, you know, we are also seeing assets being redirected from the Department of Defense, I mean, nearly $2 billion is being pulled for immigration enforcement actions. And you're talking about putting our military in positions where they don't have the training to do some of this enforcement. And also, of course, with the deployment of the National Guard, they don't have the same type of training that police do when it comes to policing in our communities.

So, I think Democrats particularly are going to have questions about what is the strain and particularly what is the impact on military readiness when it comes to some of the actions that you're making our military do that they're not actually trained for? So, I think that's an important question that we'll see when it gets asked.

BROWN: Yes. And, General Clark, today's hearing is about the course of threats to the U.S. by rivals and enemies, but even some of our allies aren't too satisfied with the U.S. right now. I mean, you had Denmark labeling the U.S. a potential security concern for the first time in an annual report released by one of its intelligence agencies. Talk to us about how you think the Trump administration has reshaped its relationships with Europe.

CLARK: Well, the national security strategy that was released last week was a real shot in the gut to Europe. After saying the United States doesn't want to intervene in foreign countries and not censuring China and Russia for their autocracy and shut down of human rights, the administration in this national security strategy, then goes after our European allies and accuses them of being anti- democratic because they don't like the -- that these are right wing groups, many of them funded by Russia to participate fully. These are neo-fascist groups and racist groups and so forth, and here we are telling our allies what to do.

And, Pamela, this brings up going back to what Andrew and David have both said, the FBI and the cybersecurity agency and Homeland Security are supposed to work against this foreign penetration of our electoral system.

[10:20:08] I and the cybersecurity agency and Homeland Security are supposed to

work against this foreign penetration of our electoral system, the so- called cognitive hacking that goes on. And, you know, when X dropped the curtain last week, it showed that many of the most popular MAGA sites are actually sites run out of Eastern Europe or Nigeria. They're not Americans out there, but they're definitely trying to sway the American electorate. That plus other Russian efforts to undercut our democracy should be seen as a very serious threat, and yet taking away the resources out of the FBI and out of Homeland Security to deal with these things exposes a real vulnerability that goes to the heart of democratic freedoms.

BROWN: And we're expecting to hear from the DHS secretary soon. David Sanger, I want to go back to you just on this issue of immigration because we do expect her to be pressed on that. It recently came out that nearly 75,000 people that have been arrested as part of the immigration crackdown don't have criminal records. And, you know, the administration has argued they're going after the worst of the worst, but, certainly, you expect that to come up as well.

SANGER: I certainly do. Look, if people are here illegally, then they're subject to deportation, whether they've committed crimes or not. But the argument the administration put out is, as you said, Pamela, that you're starting with the worst of the worst with criminals and so forth.

And what has left the administration struggling to explain what they're doing have been cases where you're deporting students or people who have been here since their childhood and have had perfectly good records. That does not necessarily mean they're not responsible for their immigration status and, you know, they're going to have to go get dealt with.

But, again, the question is, what is the hierarchy of priorities? And that's what you're not hearing from the president or from Secretary Noem. What you're hearing is, we're going to do our sweeps and get everybody out. And, you know, they're hitting the inevitable moment where this has gone on long enough that they're beginning to make a lot of mistakes.

BROWN: I'm going to interrupt because Secretary Noem speaking. Let's listen in.

KRISTI NOEM, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: -- looking forward to discussing the worldwide threats that this country faces and the work that President Trump and his administration does each and every day to make America safe again.

I'm very privileged and honored today to have my family with me. I'd like to introduce them to you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And deportations.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Disruptions of Congressional business is a violation of law, is a criminal offense under federal law. Audience members are advised to take their seats and maintain order. The chairman may now ask Capitol Police to remove and arrest the persons creating the disturbance.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go get ICE off our streets. Stop terrorizing your community. Get ICE off our streets. Stop terrorizing our community. Get ICE off our streets. Stop terrorizing your community. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Secretary, you may continue.

NOEM: Chairman, I'll come. I'll continue today with me. I have my husband, Brian, who's with me, and also two of my children, my oldest daughter, Cassidy and her husband Kyle are sitting here in the front row, and then my middle child, Kennedy, and her husband Tanner, and that was my grandbaby, Noah, that was crying a little bit during the ranking member's comments. I don't think she agreed with him. I don't have my son with me or three of my grandchildren but I'm very blessed that I have a wonderful family who is here and loves this country and is grateful to the work that we get to do as a family each and every day.

We also have the blessing of having some angel families with us as well. They are here in the audience and I'm so grateful for them for being willing to come here and be strong. It's hard to lose someone that you dearly love to illegal criminal activity to people who never should have been in our country to begin with, and to lose those loved ones to drug overdoses that get perpetuated by the terrorist organizations that filter them into our country that President Trump worked so hard to stop. So I'm grateful that they're here and that they are telling their story.

Under President Biden, he closed the office in the Department of Homeland Security that serviced these families. He closed it because he didn't want them to speak. He didn't want them to have support or services. And President Trump reopened the Voices Office so that they can get services, so they can hear about the cases of the individuals who killed their family members, and they can get the kind of help that they need to get through the tragic grief that they've experienced. So, I want to thank them for being here and continue to pray for them.

I want to thank you for the opportunity to be in front of you today to discuss the wide range of threats that the Department of Homeland Security is working on to protect us from here at home and also around the world. Just two weeks ago, the day before Thanksgiving, a terrorist shot two of our National Guardsmen in Washington, D.C., killing Sarah Beckstrom dead and Staff Sergeant Andrew Wolfe is still fighting for his life.

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Fortunately, we've had some really good news about Andrew recently and he had the opportunity to stand up and is a miracle and we're so grateful for his family, for being so strong. We continue to lift him up and pray. He has a full recovery.

The terrorist who shot them was an Afghan national who entered the United States under Operation Allies Welcome. The same week, we arrested another Afghan national who came in under the same program. He was planning to carry out a bombing in Fort Worth, Texas. And just last week, just miles away in Washington, D.C., we arrested another Afghan National who also came in under Operation Allies Welcome. That individual provided support to the Islamic State of Iraq and ISIS-K and weapons to his father who was a commander of a militia group in Afghanistan.

Those are only a handful of the challenges that we face and the threats that the Department of Homeland Security stands against every single day. Under President Trump's leadership, DHS is securing our borders. We're restoring the rule of law and we're protecting the homeland. DHS is eradicating transnational organized crime and the stopping of deadly drugs from continuing to be funneled into our communities. We're ending illegal immigration, returning sanity back to our immigration system, and we're defending against cyber attacks against our critical infrastructure.

We have sent a strong message to criminal illegal aliens that we will find you, we will arrest you, and we will deport you. Our message has resonated to over 1.5 million illegal aliens who have gone home on their own voluntarily.

At the same time, we as a country are still dealing with the mistakes, the errors, and the willful disregard of the last administration. For four years, the Biden administration allowed millions of people to come into our country illegally. Millions more in our country were exploited and were brought in under parole programs without even basic vetting. As a result, we've seen terrorist attacks and heist crimes committed against American children and families by criminal illegal aliens and violent perpetuators who should have never been allowed into this country in the first place. Transnational organized crime groups, including Mexico's Sinaloa, New Generation Jalisco, and other drug cartels, they cause chaos and they harm American interests.

Our critical infrastructure faces a perilous landscape largely driven by the impact of cyber attacks, from bad actors and cyber criminals. American citizens are increasingly under a threat from assassination attempts, intimidation tactics, and violence perpetuated by our adversaries, radical Islamic extremists and domestic extremists. These bad actors seek to undermine our public trust. They instill fear in Americans. They destabilize the institutions that safeguard our national security.

The United States is preparing to host several major public events in 2026, most notably the FIFA World Cup and the celebration of the 250th anniversary of our Declaration of Independence. These large-scale events will be potential targets for a range of bad actors, and they come with an increased level of risk. DHS is using every tool and authority we have to ensure the safety of U.S. citizens and our visitors can enjoy next year's events.

Radicalized domestic violent extremists and lone actors are a concern and intentional targeting and murderous attacks on ICE agents in Texas, parishioners in Michigan and two National Guardsmen here in Washington, D.C., are just some of the acts of the despicable examples that unfortunately are becoming too common. These threats underscore a clear need for security strategies that counter both large-scale and individualized attacks. We will remain alert in our mission to protect this country. We will protect our citizens.

And as we enter into a historic year, America will be on the world stage. Our economy faces challenges from anti-competitive and illicit foreign economic practices that hurt the prosperity of all Americans. Those include economic espionage, intellectual property theft, and customs fraud. Illicit front companies often abuse the visa system to acquire sensitive U.S. equipment, information, and technology. Economic security is national security. Because a country that cannot feed itself, can't fuel itself and cannot provide for itself cannot possibly defend itself.

Under President Trump's leadership, we will continue to protect American interests and bolster American economic power and technological innovation to further growth and prosperity. The American people depend on the Department of Homeland Security to remain vigilant, agile, and responsive. We will never yield, we will never waver, and we will never back down.

Thank you for the privilege to be with you today, Mr. Chairman, and I look forward to your continued support of the work that we do.

I yield back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Secretary Noem.

And I recognize Director Kent for five minutes to summarize his opening statement.

JOSEPH KENT, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL COUNTERTERRORISM CENTER: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, ranking members and all the members of the House.

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I appreciate the opportunity to appear before you and discuss the threats posed to our nation.