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The Situation Room

Measles Outbreak Grows in South Carolina; New Photos from Epstein Estate Show Trump, Bill Clinton and Others. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired December 12, 2025 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: -- possibly losing its so-called elimination status with measles. Walk us through what that actually means and what would have to happen for that to occur.

DR. PAUL OFFIT, VACCINE EDUCATION CENTER, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA: Right. So, we eliminated measles from the United States by the year 2000, 25 years ago. In order to lose your elimination status, your measles elimination status, you would have to have continuous transmission throughout the year. That's happened. It's already December. I would imagine we will lose our measles elimination status, much as Canada just lost their measles elimination status, which is a sad thing.

I mean, when you see two healthy little girls, six and eight-year-old girls, die in West Texas for measles, knowing that that was completely preventable, it just breaks your heart. This is something we can do something about. You can prevent measles. We have a way to safely and easily prevent measles, and unfortunately too many people are making the choice not to do that.

BLITZER: In your capacity as the Director of Vaccine Education of the Vaccine Education Center, especially involving kids, what kinds of questions do you see from parents about some of these routine vaccines, and what is your message to them?

DR. OFFIT: So, I think in many ways, it's not only that we eliminated measles in the year 2000, I think we eliminated the memory of measles. I think people don't remember just how sick this virus can make you, and I think when I speak with parents, you try and get them to understand just how bad this virus can be. We had 500 measles deaths a year before there was a vaccine.

And when children died of measles, they died from severe pneumonia, from severe dehydration, or encephalitis, which is infection of the brain, and there'd be a thousand cases a year, and a quarter of those cases would be left blind or deaf, and there's a disease called SSPE, which is a chronic measles infection of the brain where a child gets measles, survives, looks good, and then five or seven years later has deterioration in personality, deterioration in handwriting skills, and ultimately descends into a vegetative state from which there is no escape, and it's a universally fatal disease. I've seen five of those cases. This is avoidable, and you try and make the disease come alive in a way without actually making it come alive, which sadly is what's happening.

BLITZER: So, you believe all young kids should be vaccinated against measles, right?

DR. OFFIT: Yes, absolutely.

BLITZER: How old should they be when they get that vaccination?

DR. OFFIT: Right. So, there's a -- it's a two-dose vaccine. The first vaccine is given at 12 to 15 months of age, and the second dose of vaccine is given at four or six years of age, and that provides more than 97 percent immunity. It's really a highly effective vaccine and a very safe vaccine. There's no reason to fear this vaccine. What you should fear is the disease that it causes.

BLITZER: Yes, and for people who think it's dangerous to get that vaccine for their kids, what are the risks of actually contracting measles compared to, say, possible side effects of the vaccine? Are there side effects?

DR. OFFIT: Sure, I think there's side effect of any biological that you put in your body, including vaccine. So, you can have low-grade fever. You can even have a mild measles rash about 14 days later that just is transient, self-resolving. Sometimes you can have a lower platelet count, which is that cell in your bloodstream that helps to --

BLITZER: Dr. Offit, hold on just for a second. I want to listen to Robert Garcia. He's talking. Let me hear what he's saying.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- the justice will comply with this law and release those files in just a week from now?

REP. ROBERT GARCIA (D-CA): I think that we have to look back at what's happened up to this point. When you spend your entire campaign saying you're going to release the files, and then you do everything you can to stop their release. When the attorney general says they're on her desk and she refuses to release them. When you try to set up sham investigations to stop the release. When you're bringing members of Congress into the Situation Room at the White House so they don't vote to get the release done in the Congress. That all points to the same thing, which is the White House consistently has tried to cover up the Epstein files and the release.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I know the 19th is what the request was for the time frame here, but do you think this gets buried because it comes out Friday night on the 19th, the week before Christmas, and people don't pay as much attention?

GARCIA: Look, I think the release needs to happen regardless of when it is. I think the American public are at this moment wanting the release of all the files. Any final questions?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you for standing out here in the cold.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Out of jacket, too.

BLITZER: That's Robert Garcia, the top Democrat, the ranking Democrat on the House Oversight Committee involving the decision by that committee to go ahead, the Democrats on that committee, to release those photos of Jeffrey Epstein. We showed them to you just a little while ago. We'll continue to watch that story.

Let me go quickly back to Dr. Offit to finish up the conversation on measles. How dangerous is this situation for the American people right now, and what needs to be done?

DR. OFFIT: It's very dangerous. I mean, you've had three people die in this country over this past year. That equals the total number of measles deaths over the last 25 years. We have an outbreak that probably involves more than 5,000 people in this country. Measles is back. President Trump, hand in hand with Robert F. Kennedy Jr., he is now -- Trump is now the president of measles land, and this is only going to get worse.

How many more people have to suffer or be hospitalized or die before we realize that something has to be done? And that's something that should be done by our Secretary of Health and Human Services, is stand up on your considerable platform and say, vaccinate your children. Please vaccinate your children.

[10:35:00]

Unfortunately, he's the last person to do that because he has been an anti-vaccine activist for 20 years, including activism against the measles, mumps, rubella vaccine, which is in part why we're in the position we're in right now.

BLITZER: This is such a -- Dr. Paul Offit, as usual, thanks very much for your expertise. Thanks for all you're doing.

DR. OFFIT: Thank you.

BLITZER: And just ahead, closing arguments are now underway in the Brian Walshe trial, and soon a jury will decide if he's guilty of murdering his wife, Ana.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:40:00]

BLITZER: Democratic Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York has been speaking to reporters over the past few minutes about health care subsidies and the problems millions of Americans are going to have when the price of health care goes up, up, up. Let's listen in to see what she had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): The Affordable Care Act and health care subsidy extensions. You know, Speaker Johnson refused to engage in that debate. He kept Republicans home for over a month so that they would not negotiate and figure out a problem on health care.

You know, President Trump, Vice President Vance, they did the same thing. They stuck their heads in the sand for the entirety of a 30-day government shutdown where we were urging them to come to a solution on extensions of ACA premium subsidies. I hear what they're saying about subsidizing the industry. I don't -- I mean, Lord knows I'm not in favor of that. But as you mentioned, there's urgency to this issue.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What work proposals right now are floating around that you might be able to get behind?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: I mean, I don't understand why we can't just do a clean extension of what we just had in place earlier this year. I think that that is the easiest and most accessible, no-nonsense thing for us to do, especially as the year is coming to an end. Let's extend it. If they want to fight about it, they can fight about it later. But I just don't understand why, in the meantime, we can prevent a lot of people suffering by doing a clean extension of these subsidies while Republicans figure out what their health care plan is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know there was this group of immigrants from (INAUDIBLE) exchange for voting (INAUDIBLE). They got their vote, but nothing has been done on this. I mean, do you think it was worth it? Do you think that strategy of the shutdown and also what they did was worth it without a resolution to the problem?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Well, we have to remember who's in charge of the House, the Senate, and the White House. Republicans have a House majority. We have a Senate majority, and Donald Trump is president of the United States, and J.D. Vance is the vice president of the United States. We have exerted, as Democrats, every point of leverage that we've had in this moment to try to demand votes, to try to demand a pause so that we can address this issue. And every single Republican in governance has refused to engage this matter.

Meanwhile, people are going to be kicked off of their insurance. Open enrollment is happening right now. And there are going to be millions of Americans that are affected, that aren't going to be able to go to the doctor, aren't going to be able to afford their prescription drugs because of some petty fight in Washington.

And I think it is -- the lack of urgency and the lack of care on this issue is so indicative of how disconnected people are from the real- life consequences that people are experiencing. People are going to die. And I don't understand why they can't just extend these subsidies so that we can save people's lives while they figure out whatever their political food fight is.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is an extension with those abortion restrictions better than no extension at all?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: An extension with abortion restrictions kills women. So, no, I'm not going to allow this Republican majority to kill women in this country so that they can try to do a -- whatever their victory lap is. I will not accept women and the lives of women as some political cost for them being able to extend these things.

Reproductive care is health care, period. We're not going to do this thing where we say, you know, people can get health care but women can't, or people from this geographic place can't, or that geographic place can't. We need to legislate as Americans, and we need to legislate for this country.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right. Democratic Representative Alexandria Ocasio- Cortez of New York speaking on the elimination of these health care subsidies. She says, in her words, people are going to die unless Congress takes this immediate action and resumes those health care subsidies, millions of Americans, and potentially their lives are at stake right now. That's what she's saying. We're going to continue to follow this important story, see if there can be some sort of compromise worked out involving the Democrats and the Republicans. We'll watch what's going on.

Stay with us. There's a lot of news going on. We have a lot more coming up right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:45:00]

BLITZER: Just a little while ago, Democrats on the House Oversight Committee released photographs of prominent individuals hanging out with Jeffrey Epstein. We showed you those pictures just a little while ago. Now, Republican Congressman Thomas Massie of Kentucky is speaking about the decision to release that and to release more documents. He's in favor of releasing more of the Epstein files. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. THOMAS MASSIE (R-KY): But we'll see.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you seen some of these photos that Democrats on the House Oversight Committee put out this morning from the Epstein estate?

MASSIE: I have not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Generally, the DOJ is on the clock. They have less or just about a week to comply with your law and release the files. Do you have faith that the Department of Justice will do that and comply with the law?

MASSIE: I've been encouraged. They went back to the three judges and asked them to release grand jury material in light of the Epstein Files Transparency Act. And all three judges have reversed their prior stance, but for good reason. They cite the Epstein Files Transparency Act.

So, you've got three grand juries that are going to release all their materials redacted with the victims' names to the DOJ. So, it's a good sign that the DOJ went back and asked for that grand jury material.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If DOJ doesn't release the files it has by next Friday, is there anything Congress can do to compel that to happen?

[10:50:00]

MASSIE: Well, I mean, it's a crime if they don't. It's not like they're in contempt of Congress because they didn't respond to a subpoena. This is a new law with, you know, criminal implications if they don't follow it. But I was encouraged, again, by the fact that they went back to these three judges and got the judges to release the grand jury material to the DOJ.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that grand jury material enough, do you think, to comply with the law?

MASSIE: No, the grand jury material is just a small fraction of what the DOJ needs to release. Because the FBI and DOJ probably has evidence that they chose not to take to the grand jury. Because the evidence they're in possession of would implicate other people, not Epstein or Maxwell.

So, the grand jury material is probably going to just be mostly facts and evidence that was used to convict those two. And what we want to see are the facts and evidence that the FBI and the DOJ have never given to a grand jury.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right. That's Thomas Massie, the Republican congressman from Kentucky, who's been a leader in getting the Justice Department to release all these documents from the Epstein files. And we'll see what happens next. They just did release some photos. As a result of what the House -- the Democrats on the House Oversight Committee were seeking some photos of prominent individuals like President Trump, former President Bill Clinton and others with Epstein hanging out. It didn't show any sexual activity or any inappropriate activity with young girls or anything like that. Just pictures of them together. We're going to continue to watch this story, see what else is released, update you. Much more coming up right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:55:00]

BLITZER: Happening now, a very special weekend full of tradition and pageantry right near the nation's capital. Every year, of course, the teams from West Point and the U.S. Naval Academy go head-to-head out there on the football field for the Army-Navy game. It's a tradition that goes back more than a century. I love this game.

CNN Sports Anchor Coy Wire is in Baltimore where they'll be playing tomorrow. Coy, why is this game about so much more than just the on- field bragging rights and so much more than just a football game?

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Absolutely, Wolf. These young men balance the rigors of training to be a college athlete, training to serve in the military and their studies, we're talking thermodynamics, cyber-ops, Army and Navy. They may be opponents on game day, but there is this mutual respect, this brotherhood, knowing that they've all committed their lives to all of us. We asked the coaches why many say this is the greatest rivalry out there. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN NEWBERRY, NAVY FOOTBALL HEAD COACH: There's a ton of great rivalries, right? And a lot of them are built on hate. I think, to me, this one is an overarching sense of respect, you know, on both sides.

JEFF MONKEN, ARMY FOOTBALL HEAD COACH: It's the greatest rivalry in sports, in my opinion. When you've got players on the field who are willing to give their lives for this nation and everybody that's watching makes it a pretty unique rivalry and a pretty special football game.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WIRE: Now, I've played in the Rose Bowl. I've played in NFL playoff games, Wolf. But these players play with an intensity that is second to none. They are a rare breed. We asked each team, what is an Army- Navy football player? Here's some of what they said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KALIB FORTNER, ARMY TEAM CAPTAIN/LINEBACKER: Someone that has integrity. They're very humble and they have humility as well.

BLAKE HORVATH, NAVY CO-CAPTAIN/QUARTERBACK: You got to be tough. You got to be determined and you got to overcome a lot of adversity and be able to multitask.

LANDON ROBINSON, NAVY CO-CAPTAIN/DEFENSIVE LINEMAN: So, being able to go through those hard experiences with the guys to the left and right of you, builds that brotherhood and builds that cohesion that you use to go out there and win football games.

ANDON THOMAS, ARMY TEAM CAPTAIN/LINEBACKER: Tough, gritty. And I think the biggest thing is that they really just care about their brothers. They're willing to lay their lives down for each other. I think that's what separates our brotherhood and our locker room.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WIRE: Wolf, the players say that they hope that the mutual respect that they have for each other, despite being on opposing sides, can be replicated in communities all across the country and around the world. The 126th edition of the Army-Navy game is tomorrow at 3:00 Eastern. First meeting here in Baltimore since 2016. The energy is picking up, Wolf. BLITZER: Yes, and there's going to be a lot of people watching this game. As a former Pentagon correspondent, I love the Army. I love the Navy. And I want to see a great football game tomorrow. And I'm sure we will. Coy Wire is on the scene for us. Thanks as usual for joining us, Coy.

WIRE: You got it.

BLITZER: And the next hour of the Situation Room starts right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

BLITZER: And we begin this hour with the breaking news caught on camera. The Epstein Estate, releasing new photos of high-profile figures in Jeffrey Epstein's orbit. Ex-coach in court, former University of Michigan head football coach is expected to appear before a judge after his firing and arrest. What new dispatch audio reveals about allegations against him. And major price markups. The new investigation is the jacked-up grocery prices on a very popular shopping service. Why some customers are paying hundreds of dollars more for their food?

Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer. Pamela Brown is on assignment, and you're in the situation Room.

We're following the big breaking news right now. Democrats on the House Oversight Committee.

[11:00:00]