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The Situation Room

Artemis II Heads Back Home After Historic Lunar Flyby; Members of Trump Administration Embrace God, Religion in Iran War. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired April 07, 2026 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: There's more breaking news coming into the Situation Room. The astronauts on the Artemis II mission will be waking up any moment now after a tremendous day for the history books, reaching more than, get this, 250,000 miles from Earth during a lunar flyby. During a lunar flyby, I should say.

NASA just released this image from the crew's extraordinary journey into deep space. Christina Koch shared this message after regaining communications with Houston. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTINA KOCH, ASTRONAUT: We will explore, we will build, we will build ships, build it again. We will construct science outposts. We will drive rovers. We will do radio astronomy. We will (INAUDIBLE) companies. We will bolster industry. We will inspire. But ultimately, we will always choose Earth. We will always choose each other.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[10:35:00]

BLITZER: We're also getting a new image of the solar eclipse, which the crew observed from the Orion spacecraft.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Humans probably have not evolved to see what we're seeing. It is truly hard to describe. It is amazing. It's indescribable. No matter how long we look at this, we're seeing this image in front of us. It is absolutely spectacular, surreal. There's no adjective.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: They also gave very touching suggestions to name two lunar craters, including this one from astronaut Jeremy Hansen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEREMY HANSEN, ASTRONAUT: We lost a loved one. Her name was Carroll. The spouse of Reid, the mother of Katie and Ellie. It's a bright spot on the moon. And we would like to call her Carroll, and you spell that C-A-R-R-O-L-L.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The crew in control observed a moment of silence in Houston as the four astronauts embraced in Carroll's honor. So moving.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Oh, wow.

BLITZER: Let's go live right now to CNN National Correspondent Randi Kaye. She's over at the Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas. Randi, the crew is on its way back to Earth now. What will they be doing for day seven of this mission?

RANDI KAYE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, they get to sleep, Wolf, for about another hour or so before they're woken up. They had a very busy day yesterday, as you were just talking about there. They took about 10,000 images, and we did see just a couple of them there.

Let's take a look at them just once again, and to add a few more, we can do that as well. If you look at that image right there, that is the Earth dipping behind the lunar horizon, which is just incredible. You can see that there. You see the moon there in the foreground, just a stunning photo. And then we have another one where the Earth looks just a little bit smaller on the horizon, if we can bring that one up. Yes, just look at that. And you can see all the amazing texture of the moon. I mean, this is incredible, incredible. They had iPhones with them, but they also had these amazing cameras that really served as binoculars.

And if you look at another one, it really shows the close-up of the texture of the moon. We have that one, and then we can get to -- yes, there it is. That's incredible texture on the moon. And then we have the eclipse. This is the total solar eclipse that they were able to see. We haven't seen something like that since the Apollo days. And you heard Victor Glover talking about it there, and Reid Wiseman as well, they were just amazed at what they were able to see. And then those little dots there, those are the planets that you can see sort of speckled about in that photo. So, it was really an incredible journey that they had.

And they took, as I said, about 10,000 different images. And today they are going to leave the lunar sphere of influence, as they call it, and start making their way back to Earth. They'll slingshot back to Earth and get a free ride home. Wolf, Pam.

BLITZER: All right. Randi Kaye on the scene for us at Houston at the Johnson Space Center. Thank you very, very much. Pamela.

BROWN: Truly a remarkable moment in history. I want to bring in retired NASA astronaut Joan Higginbotham for more perspective on this mission. What is your initial reaction, Joan? What we heard from the crew yesterday in those images we just showed?

JOAN HIGGINBOTHAM, RETIRED NASA ASTRONAUT: You know, I've been watching the mission since day one. I've just been glued to NASA YouTube channel. And just seeing those images were just amazing. You heard Reid, the commander, say that he needed the flight team to send him up 20 more superlatives because there just weren't any adjectives to describe it.

And I can only imagine because when I was on my flight, you know, the part of the Earth that we got to see was only about an eighth of the curvature of the Earth. And once you have that view, you are forever changed. And having something more than that, seeing the Earth in totality and the moon in totality, I can only imagine what they're feeling. And you can hear the emotion in their voices every time they talk about what they're seeing, not only with their own eyes, but with these amazing cameras that they have on board.

BROWN: Tell us a little bit more about that, how you're forever changed.

HIGGINBOTHAM: The first time that I saw the sunrise over the horizon of the Earth or the curvature of the Earth, it was a very emotional moment for me. I just had this big epiphany that this is Mother Earth. It is the only place that we have to live, and we need to be very mindful of how we treat her. The other thing that came to my mind and my heart was not only do we need to treat Mother Earth well, we need to treat one another well. There's some great science that's coming from this mission, but there's a deeper takeaway.

[10:40:00]

There are four astronauts who are very unique, very different from the crew that went in the '60s and the '70s. And the deeper takeaway is that you have these different people, different paths, who have come together for one goal and one mission. And the takeaway is that when we all work together, we can go further.

So, this is just not how we explore further. This is how we move further together as a species on planet Earth. I love that message.

BROWN: Talk to us a little bit more about the science and what can be gleaned from some of the images of the moon that have been shared so far.

HIGGINBOTHAM: Absolutely. If you have been listening to Mission Control, there is a new position in Mission Control called the Science Console. That didn't exist up until this mission. And they have geologists and people who have spent their whole lives studying the moon and doing it from a theoretical standpoint and from photos. But getting to hear the crew describe the pits and the colors and the luminosity has just gotten the entire Science Console to just -- the word they use is giddy and moon joy.

So, not only are they getting to hear facts and actual proof of what they've been living and doing their entire career, they now have proof positive and even more information brought down by the crew about what they've been studying, what they have committed their careers doing.

BROWN: Joan Higginbotham, always great to have you on and to get your unique perspective. We appreciate it. Wolf.

HIGGINBOTHAM: Thank you for having me, Pamela.

BLITZER: And coming up, invoking the Christian God when talking about the war in Iran. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth has not shied away from weaving his beliefs with Pentagon missions. We'll speak to two veterans who see Hegseth's invocation very differently. And later, new video shedding light on a January shooting involving an ICE agent and two Venezuelan immigrants. How it's unraveled the agency's initial account of the incident.

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[10:45:00]

BROWN: Now, to a Situation Room special report. Members of the Trump administration are not shying away from the idea that there's a religious aspect to the war with Iran. Instead, government leaders are leaning into their faith. Here's what President Trump and Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth said just yesterday in a news conference about the military's heroic rescue of a downed American airman from Iran.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: God is good and God wants to see people taken care of. God doesn't like what's happening.

PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY: You see, shot down on a Friday, good Friday. Rescued on Sunday. Flown out of Iran as the sun was rising on Easter Sunday. A pilot reborn, all home and accounted for. A nation rejoicing. God is good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Joining us now to discuss are two veterans who see this invocation differently. With us is Sergeant Mark Glesne, an ordained pastor and Marine Corps combat veteran who supports it, and retired Army Major General Randy Manner, who has worked to train hundreds of interfaith military chaplains and is raising the alarm about this Christian language in military affairs.

Mark, I want to start with you. You believe Secretary Hegseth's invoking of religion, his Christian faith in particular, in this Iran war is appropriate both militarily and biblically. Explain why.

MARK GLESNE, ORDAINED PASTOR AND MARINE CORPS COMBAT VETERAN: I do. Thanks for the question. I think militarily praying for overwhelming violence, as Pete recently has done, is appropriate because that's how wars are won. That's how conflicts are victorious. And I think biblically what the Secretary is expressing is the uncomfortable reality of Romans 13, which is while Christians are called not to personal revenge, the state and governing authorities have been ordained by God and set up, as it says in Romans 13, to be a, quote, "terror to bad conduct."

And so, I think you can support it both from a military leadership perspective of this prayer and this use of a personal faith. Keep in mind the military is a deeply faith-based community with less than 2 percent of active military members claiming to be agnostic or atheist. And I think biblically it is supported as well.

BROWN: General, you disagree with that perspective. What's your view of this?

MAJ. GEN. RANDY MANNER, U.S. ARMY (RET.): I believe that the senior leaders in our government should ensure that there is a separation of church and state. I believe that we need to be able to talk to all the peoples of the United States, which, by the way, is not just Christian.

It's also, of course, people who perhaps have no beliefs or they are Catholic or Muslim or they are Jewish or whatever religion they might follow. I think it's very important that we, like chaplains in the military, the role of military chaplains are very different from those of a civilian religious leader. One, provide, obviously, unbiased support of our military members, both in wartime and peacetime.

Ensure also -- the second reason, provide specific religious support if a member requests it, for example, a Catholic priest or an imam or a particular religious denomination. And thirdly, provide advice and counsel to the commander on the morale of the military members and their families.

[10:50:00]

So, I think we need to be able to separate this and ensure that our chaplains are not divisive but are inclusive and providing hope and resilience to all our military members and their families.

BROWN: Mark, President Trump escalated his threat to Iran this morning, posting on social media that, quote, "A whole civilization will die tonight, never to be brought back again." He said he hopes he -- that doesn't happen, but it probably will. If he follows through on this and Iranian civilians die in U.S. attacks, would that be biblically permissible?

GLESNE: I think it's a great question. Again, it's a part of the uncomfortable reality of living in a fallen world. And so, as the president has said, he does not like what is taking place. He has stated that he doesn't believe God likes what is taking place.

But we see war evoked throughout scripture. We see this nuanced understanding of violence in a fallen world in order to restrain evil. And again, that is what the state has been ordained by God to do, which is to be a terror to bad conduct. We pray for, and if you go back to the monthly prayer service that Pete Hegseth led, and he prayered -- he prayed, excuse me, this prayer from the Psalms, he prayed for innocents to be spared. He prayed for those who are blameless to be spared. It's one of the distinguishing features from us and in Islamic regimes that we pray for the protection of innocents. However, that does not mean that we cannot and at times do not have to.

And I think reasonable minds can disagree on the imminent threat that Iran posed. However, what we can't get away from is the unfortunate reality that in a fallen world sometimes violence is just and sometimes it is a means to limiting the suffering in the long run.

BROWN: Randy, how do you respond to that? You've worked at length with military chaplains and you've said that many do not identify with Secretary Hegseth. But are there any who you've spoken with who do support how the defense secretary has brought his Christian religion to the armed forces?

MANNER: I think every single chaplain, like every single military person is able to speak privately about how do they feel about supporting a particular policy or not. And so, that's important to understand that we all have our personal beliefs. While they are on active duty, they have to keep those to themselves.

So, yes, of course, some people absolutely support this kind of a strategy and while others are absolutely opposed to it. I think the most important thing we have to remember is that the military members are there, the chaplains are there to be able to provide again hope to all the people no matter what their religious denomination. I think it's also important that we look at what under the rule of law is permissible.

The idea of eliminating civilization, the idea of attacking civilian power plants. These are actually the words of potential war criminals and we need to be able to understand that under both U.S. military law, U.S. law and international law. So, we have to be very careful.

Attacking military targets is one thing. A power plant that supports power to a military facility that's obviously an approved target. But attacking civilians, attacking civilian bridges, attacking civilian power plants, those are potential war crimes.

BROWN: How do you respond to that, Mark? And I also want to note, I've done extensive reporting on the rise of those who identify as Christian nationalism aligning with the Trump administration and how excess belonging to a church with Christian nationalist ambitions are influencing him and the way he leads the military. When does it veer into blurring the lines between separation of church and state?

GLESNE: On your first question, it's really a question of proportionality. And so, civilians can use bridges, but so can the military. Civilians can draw power from a power plant, so can the regime. And so, on a case-by-case basis, they'll have to look at those individual instances, but it's really a question of proportionality as to what is a strategic military target and what is an overwhelmingly civilian target. And those are reasonable questions that we should continue to ask.

On the idea of Christian nationalism, I know that's a term that people love to throw out these days.

BROWN: Not everyone embraces it, though. I should note.

GLESNE: Are you Christian nationalist, are you not. Correct. And so, I have never described myself as that. I call myself a Christian and I call myself an American. I love Jesus, I love my country, and I want the best for my neighbors and those around the world. I want them all to come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.

In terms of the secretary, he does not -- there -- it is a gray area. He does not believe that Jesus is compartmentalized and his public duty is compartmentalized.

[10:55:00]

In the Bible, those folks were known as Herodians. The Pharisees were the ones that separated themselves out from culture. They didn't have anything to do with culture. They didn't get involved. They were separated. The Herodians were the ones that said, look, it is all about the culture, keep your private faith, keep that -- your faith private, keep that at home. The Bible says the only time they got together was because they were both angry with Jesus, the Pharisees and the Herodians.

I think Christians live in a beautiful tension where you are aggravating the people that say, don't get involved with culture, don't get involved with the mire and the muck, and the folks that say, just keep your religion at home, that is private, you keep that quiet. The Bible actually shows that Jesus causes consternation between both those groups.

And so, I think the secretary is a man that is emboldened by his faith and he is allowing that to shine through. I am personally encouraged by bringing faith to a more forward position within a military context.

BROWN: Very quickly, General, final words to you.

MANNER: I really think everyone has to understand that we pledged allegiance to defend the Constitution of the United States. And that is something that all of us are united in, is to do the right thing for all peoples, no matter what their religion, no matter what their color, no matter what their beliefs are. And I think that that's the common denominator that pulls us together as Americans. And we've got to remember that so we cannot be divided by people who advocate one religion over another.

BROWN: Sergeant Mark Glesne and retired Major General Randy Manner, thank you both for that very respectful conversation. We appreciate it. And we'll be right back.

GLESNE: Thank you.

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