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The Situation Room

Women and Weed; Trump vs. Pope Leo; Interview With Lanny Davis; Trump DOJ Targeting Former CIA Director John Brennan. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired April 17, 2026 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:00]

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WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: We're following breaking news out of the U.S. Justice Department. It involves a longstanding critic of President Trump's, the former CIA Director John Brennan.

Want to go straight to CNN senior justice correspondent Evan Perez Evan.

Evan, you have some exclusive new reporting. What are you learning?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the lead prosecutor, the career prosecutor in Miami who's been leading the investigation of John Brennan has been removed from the case.

Now, what we learned is that Maria Medetis Long has notified some of the lawyers involved in the case, people representing people involved in the investigation, that she is no longer handling the case. And what this signifies really is the intense pressure that those prosecutors are under to bring a case against John Brennan as part of the president's retribution agenda.

You know the president has demanded that the Justice Department go after Brennan, as well as Jim Comey, Letitia James, a number of other people. We know that prosecutors down in Miami have viewed the case as somewhat weak and they -- that they needed a lot more time to try to do this investigation.

That, of course, is not going to work for the Justice Department, especially now given the fact that the president has fired the U.S. attorney -- I'm sorry -- the attorney general, Pam Bondi, in part because of the slow pace of the -- of these -- investigation.

And also now we have the acting attorney general, Todd Blanche, who himself is trying to redouble efforts to do these cases and bring them quickly because he wants the job permanently.

So what we know now, for now, Wolf, is that this investigation is still ongoing, but it's going to be led by a different set of people.

BLITZER: What were they investigating John Brennan for?

PEREZ: They have investigating his comments or his statements to the House in 2023. He was investigated about the 2017 finding by the intelligence community that Russia investigated -- interfered in the U.S. election in favor of Donald Trump.

This -- these comments that he made to the House during his testimony, according to some of the prosecutors involved here, could be false, that he could -- that he lied in this -- in this testimony, or at least that's the allegation from Republicans in this case.

BLITZER: All right, Evan Perez, you will stay on top of this story for us.

PEREZ: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you very, very much -- Pamela.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: All right, just ahead here in THE SITUATION ROOM: He was once the attorney for President Trump's one-time fixer Michael Cohen. Now he's out with a new book about how Americans can bridge our political divide.

And he will join us next in THE SITUATION ROOM.

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[11:37:06]

BLITZER: These days, it seems as if partisan political fights have become way, way too common. Those are the -- that's the subject, by the way, of a brand-new book written by my next guest, the former Clinton White House special counsel and veteran Democratic operative Lanny Davis.

He's the author of the new book entitled "Finding the Third Way: Lessons in the Politics of Civility from My Journey Through History" -- end quote. That's the subtitle.

Lanny, thanks very much for coming in.

LANNY DAVIS, AUTHOR, "FINDING THE THIRD WAY: LESSONS IN THE POLITICS OF CIVILITY FROM MY JOURNEY THROUGH HISTORY": Thank you, Wolf, for having me.

BLITZER: You and I have known each other for a long time. And I will put the -- I will show our viewers. This is the copy of the book.

DAVIS: Thank you.

BLITZER: Thanks so much for writing. It's very important.

Tell us a little bit about the third way. What do you mean by that?

DAVIS: Well, I saw the polarization in the country, and I started to realize a lot of my friends, some of them Democrats, had voted for Mr. Trump several times.

And rather than jumping at each other and calling each other names, which is happening within families when there's -- I learned to listen first, and there were common issues that we were able to agree on. And that's when the concept of the book hit me, that there's a method to getting along with Trump voters and respecting them.

You can disagree with Mr. Trump, but the voters are the ones we need to bring back to the Democratic Party. That was the genesis of the book.

BLITZER: I'm sure a lot of our viewers will remember you. We all remember you represented Bill Clinton when he was president, also representing Trump's former personal attorney and fixer Michael Cohen.

But your time here in Washington goes back way further than that. What experience helped shape your views on politics the most?

DAVIS: I would say Bill Clinton and watching him, the way he was able to get along with Newt Gingrich, who they didn't exactly like each other personally, but he taught me that you can get over your differences, even personal, in order to do something for the country.

And he and Gingrich and Joe Scarborough and Republican conservatives balanced the budget, and Bill Clinton left office with a budget surplus. Yet he was a liberal Democrat like myself. So that's when the concept of the book really was inspired by President Clinton.

BLITZER: Even though you're a Democrat, well-known Democrat, you have friends on both sides of the aisle.

Why, in your view, has politics here -- especially here in Washington, become so tribal right now?

DAVIS: Well, I think social media has a great deal to do with it and also cable television, where you're in an echo chamber with people who agree with you in cable watchers.

I thought this book would be timely, even though it's a little bit hard to persuade people, especially for Mr. Trump, that we have things in common. But now that the Iran war has taken place and we see a number of Republican, Trump, MAGA world supporters not agreeing with Mr. Trump's Iran war policies, that there is that commonality and there's others that I have discovered.

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BLITZER: I'm just curious, do you see any of the 2028 presidential contenders on the Democratic and Republican side emerging and supporting your third way?

DAVIS: Well, 100 percent. We already have -- J.B. Pritzker in Illinois impresses me greatly as somebody who was able to win in Trump country, Southern Illinois counties, way before we saw that potential.

And I see Andy Beshear in Kentucky, a state that went for Trump heavily.

BLITZER: Both Democrats.

DAVIS: Both Democrats. So we have a very good base of governors that can speak to Trump voters and try to do what I'm doing, which is, you can respect Trump voters while you disagree with Mr. Trump.

BLITZER: Well, Lanny Davis, the book once again is entitled "Finding the Third Way: Lessons in the Politics of Civility from My Journey Through History."

And there's a lot of history there. A lot of it, I'm very familiar with. Thanks very much for writing this book.

DAVIS: Thank you for having me on.

BLITZER: Good to have you.

DAVIS: Thank you.

BLITZER: Pamela.

BROWN: Thank you.

All right, coming up here in THE SITUATION ROOM: the pontiff versus the president. More criticism of the war with Iran from an unlikely source and the fallout from Eric Swalwell's resignation from Congress.

Michael Smerconish in THE SITUATION ROOM to discuss it all up next.

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BLITZER: Happening now: Oil prices are dropping significantly after Iran announced that the Strait of Hormuz is now completely open.

President Trump said on TRUTH Social that Iran has agreed to never close the Strait of Hormuz again. We're awaiting the Iranian response to this latest update for President Trump.

BROWN: And with us now is CNN political commentator and the host of CNN's "SMERCONISH," Michael Smerconish.

Great to see you. Good morning.

A lot of major developments this morning with the Iran war. Do you think President Trump can frame this as a win?

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I do.

I have been on radio for the last three hours and just paying attention to the Chyron on CNN. It's been quite a morning. And things are very fluid, as Wolf just said, Pamela. But if the Strait of Hormuz remains open, if there's been leadership change in Iran, not regime change, but leadership change, and most important from my perspective, if we control what the president calls the dust, their enhanced enriched uranium, then I'm happy to call it a win.

And, by the way, I never thought that he met the imminence test, that there was an imminent threat posed by Iran. So I had misgivings about going in. But if he can check those boxes legitimately, sure, Mr. President, I will be thrilled to give you that win.

BLITZER: As you know, Michael, President Trump and Pope Leo, the first American-born pope, they are trading insults, the pope warning that the world is being ravaged by tyrants after President Trump attacked him for his stance on the war with Iran.

According to the Pew Research Center, about 20 percent of U.S. adults describe themselves as Catholics. How is this rift resonating with voters?

SMERCONISH: So, I'm one of them. And I think it was a terrible miscalculation on the part of the president.

He took down that TRUTH Social post. That was the right move. But he's treating the pontiff as he treats any other political opponent, which is to say he finds it, he, the president, finds it impossible to turn the other cheek. And so he just keeps going back for more and more and more.

And I think not only is it the wrong thing to do from a variety of different standpoints, not the least of which is religious or ethical, but, politically, it's unwise. Like, where's the constituency that is cheering for the president to fight the pope? I don't get it.

BROWN: I want to go back to the war on Iran, because, as you pointed out, Michael, you're like, if this all comes through in the way it's presented, you would give President Trump a win on this.

On his podcast Thursday, though, Joe Rogan, who has been a Trump ally, conservative podcaster, slammed the war with Iran, calling it effing terrifying. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE ROGAN, HOST, "THE JOE ROGAN EXPERIENCE": All of it's terrifying..

Any time you're involved with -- you're shooting missiles into towns and blowing things up, blowing up infrastructure...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

ROGAN: ... blowing up bridges, and Israel's blowing up Lebanon now, it's like, what the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) are we doing?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

ROGAN: How is this still going on?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I -- it's -- well, it's also clear there was no plan.

ROGAN: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zero. None.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So, Rogan, for his part, has been increasingly critical of the president. He said that the war is not what MAGA voted for in 2024. We have heard other right-wing podcasters say the same, but how much is that reflective, that viewpoint reflective of the president's base when it comes to this war?

SMERCONISH: I don't consider myself in the president's base. I'm not antagonistic to the president's base. I have used those same words that Rogan has used, but I'm saying, OK, here we are now.

And if, in fact, the way that it all ends is with the strait open and the dust under control and with new leaders in Iran, then I have to stand back and be objective and say that's a pretty decent outcome, even though I questioned why we were going in, in the first place.

BLITZER: Well, how do you think the president is reacting to the criticism he's getting from some of his earlier supporters?

SMERCONISH: I think that he responds to the numbers, Wolf. And the numbers in this case are the market and the gas prices.

And the markets are on fire as we're having this conversation, and crude is dropping. That's a good thing on the news that the strait is open. I think that those are the digits that he pays closest attention to. Does he monitor what's going on among the conservative opinion- makers? Sure, he does, but not as much as he's paying attention to what's on the screen right now.

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BROWN: I want to turn to something else happening here in Washington, and that is these resignations from Congress.

This week, we had former Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell resign from Congress and dropping out of the race for California governor following sexual assault allegations against him. We should note he denies those. But you had those accusations.

Republican Congressman Tony Gonzales also resigned. He had acknowledged that he had an affair with a staffer who later died by suicide. How are these two departures going to change the political landscape in the House, in your view?

SMERCONISH: You would think that it would be a wake-up call for individuals who have skeletons in their closet or skeletons allegedly, reportedly to this extent, hey, maybe I ought not to run for governor of California. Maybe I ought not to run for a statewide race in the largest state in the country. I just don't know how you don't have a self-awareness that says, if

you put yourself in the public magnifying glass, these things are going to come to light. That's the part of this whole story that mystifies me the most.

BLITZER: Michael Smerconish, as usual, thank you very, very much for joining us.

And an important reminder to all of our viewers, you can always catch "SMERCONISH" tomorrow 9:00 a.m. Eastern right here on CNN. It's a truly excellent program -- Pamela.

BROWN: It surely is.

All right, coming up here in THE SITUATION ROOM: women and weed. Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us next to answer some of your questions about why so many women are turning into cannabis and the possible impacts.

We will be right back.

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[11:56:27]

BROWN: A new CNN special from CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, is showing us the rise of medical cannabis use among women.

He traveled the country and visited some unexpected places to learn why.

BLITZER: But, for now, Dr. Gupta is here with us in THE SITUATION ROOM with some of the big questions you all have about this very sensitive subject.

Erica from Canada, Sanjay, wants to know this: "What are the short- and long-term effects on a baby if a mother uses cannabis while pregnant and while breast-feeding?"

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

Well, first of all, I will just say that this may have been the most surprising, if not shocking part of our investigation, the idea that women are using cannabis while pregnant and breast-feeding. The numbers are much higher than we realize. The studies say anywhere from 7 to 20 percent of women are doing this.

And it's obviously a problem. So, some of the big headlines, cannabis crosses the placenta, big question that has been answered recently. It also gets concentrated in breast milk. So the doses within breast milk might even be higher than in the blood.

And that can cause all sorts of problems, preterm labor, preeclampsia, all sorts of things. So this is not recommended. Two things I will say. One is, these studies are hard to do because women may not be forthright about their cannabis use. Also, oftentimes, cannabis is commingled with other substances, tobacco and alcohol.

So parsing out what is causing what can be challenging. What we found is that a lot of women were using cannabis before they got pregnant for their depression or anxiety or pain, and they did not want to stop when they became pregnant and they did not want to take antidepressants or opioids or something. So that's sort of the tension for them.

But I think the data is pretty clear on the potential harms. But it was interesting to see why this has evolved so much over the past few years.

BROWN: Certainly.

And I want to get to this question from Jodi from New Jersey. I have heard this question too: "Can marijuana products, specifically those that are edible, be helpful for perimenopause symptoms? How? And what is the mechanism and which symptoms?"

GUPTA: Yes, so the short answer seems to be yes. And there's a lot more data, a lot more evidence, which we present in the documentary.

What is interesting is that, if you look at THC specifically, an active ingredient in cannabis, there's all sorts of things that it might do that overlap with the symptoms of perimenopause and menopause.

And one thing I will say is, for a lot of women, up until recently, until the black box warning was taken off hormone replacement therapy, there weren't a lot of great options to treat the symptoms of menopause. So it's no surprise that women have increasingly turned to alternatives, including cannabis.

But THC can help with sleep. That's a big one. THC can impact the hypothalamus of the brain, which is responsible for how your body regulates temperature, and that can be good for hot flashes. It can be helpful with anxiety, and it can also act as an anti-inflammatory, which might help with pain.

Again, I will say the same thing now that I said with the previous question. These studies are hard to do. There are potential harms. We say this 1,000 times in the documentary. But this is sort of the state of cannabis in the country right now.

It's going up, primarily among women, and primarily being driven by women between the ages of 45 and 60, because I think they're trying to treat a lot of the things that you see on the screen right there.

BROWN: All right, as always Dr. Gupta, thank you so much.

And, as you noted you're going to dive deeper into this topic in your new documentary. You can watch "Weed 8: Women and Weed." It's his eighth installment of the series on cannabis usage and trends. It airs Sunday night at 8:00 Eastern and Pacific right here on CNN. You can also watch it the next day streaming on the CNN app.

[12:00:13]

I'm really looking forward to seeing that.

BLITZER: Me too. He's really -- he really knows his stuff.

BROWN: He does.

BLITZER: He's the best medical correspondent, period.

BROWN: In the world.

BLITZER: I agree.

BROWN: Undoubtedly.

BLITZER: Totally.

All right, thank you very much for joining us this morning. You can always keep up with us on social media @WolfBlitzer and @PamelaBrownCNN.

BROWN: We will see you back here Monday morning and every weekday morning at 10:00 Eastern.

"INSIDE POLITICS" with our friend and colleague Phil Mattingly starts right now.