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The Situation Room

Shooting in North Carolina; Crisis in Lebanon; Pope Leo Continues Africa Trip; U.S. Military Seizes Iranian-Flagged Cargo Ship. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired April 20, 2026 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: All right, let's go back now to our breaking news coverage of the war with Iran.

Tehran is threatening to retaliate after the U.S. fired on and seized an Iranian-flagged vessel in the Gulf of Oman. The ship was trying to break the U.S. blockade of Iranian ports. And a U.S. delegation is also expected to arrive in Pakistan for talks on ending the war. Sources say Vice President J.D. Vance is expected to join.

With us now, our Beth Sanner, CNN national security analyst and former deputy director of national intelligence, and Michael Allen is the former special assistant to President George W. Bush for national security and was majority staff director for the House Intelligence Committee.

Beth, I want to start with you. We're still in this very fragile cease-fire. It ends tomorrow. President Trump, amid this whirlwind of news, said that the U.S. blockade would stay in place on Iranian ports, even though the Iran's leader -- Iran's leader said that Strait of Hormuz would be open.

What do you think this play was by Iran to send -- try to send one of its ship through the blockade?

BETH SANNER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, they have been they have been trying to do this, and they had to test us. I think General Clark said this a few minutes ago, that they needed to test. They wanted to see what was going to happen.

And they thought like, well is it real or is it something that's kind of made up? They found out the hard way that it is actually closed. And, importantly, that ship in the past -- I'm so glad the U.S. intercepted it, because, in the past, that ship was moving chemical precursors for solid missiles for their ballistic missile system from China to Iran.

So we had to do that. But I think that kind of the bigger picture here is that the Pakistani field marshal, General Munir, recently spoke to President Trump on the phone and said, you know, your actions are actually making negotiations harder.

[11:35:15]

BROWN: Right.

SANNER: And so what we're in right now is, I think we're seeing this in real time. We're seeing the Iranians saying, like, no, I -- I don't want to come to the negotiating table, because this isn't how we thought we were going to work this out.

BROWN: Yes. And the president is threatening to resume attacks on Iran if these talks fall through or they don't reach a deal, whatever the case may be.

What do you think about that, Michael?

MICHAEL ALLEN, FORMER BUSH NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL STAFFER: Well, I think he has to make good on this if he keeps saying it.

But I think he's right now trying to increase the pressure. The seizure of the vessel was good for our deterrent effect. I mean, I'm not trying to downplay the fact that this is getting tense and kinetic force may be involved.

But we have got to get some sort of pressure or incentive for Iran to come back to Pakistan to continue to negotiate with us. Right now, either the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps is in the ascendance and doesn't want to compromise, or we have some voices within it that just need something to argue that we have got to get over here, our economy is going to be strangled, and we have got to seek some relief.

BROWN: We have learned that J.D. Vance, the vice president, will join the U.S. delegation in Pakistan.

But do you think the negotiators here are doing enough to put themselves in the shoes of the Iranians and the IRGC in terms of their mind-set that is really this pervasive ideology that goes back decades against the West?

SANNER: Right. Right, this whole idea of resistance.

So I think that there are some challenges here. I mean, clearly, we are having difficulty knowing who we're negotiating with. But I think that there's been a lot in the press -- and Michael just spoke about it -- of, like, who's in the ascendancy or whatever?

I have never known an Iran where the political leaders are in charge of anything. It is the IRGC. It is the hard-liners. And it's just a matter of extreme. Now, I just think that we are not understanding them. And that doesn't mean we agree with them. That doesn't mean that we should listen to them.

It means that we have to calibrate our expectations of what they're going to do more closely with what our threats are. And this idea of escalate to de-escalate...

ALLEN: Yes.

SANNER: I understand why we're there, but I just don't think the idea that we're going to return to bombing is really persuasive with this group of people.

I don't think they believe it, number one. And, number two, if it happens, I don't think that that's going to move them. Maybe the blockade will over time, but now we're negotiating with a clock. And they think they have more time on the clock than we do.

BROWN: Do you think the U.S. might be putting too much emphasis on the economic pain on Iran to maybe come to the table more and...

ALLEN: I don't know how many more cards we have to play. I mean, I agree with Beth...

SANNER: Yes.

ALLEN: ... that they don't have the same cost-benefit analysis of a Western nation or maybe any other nations. They feel like they can hang in there. They will -- they have taken a punch twice, if you include June, and they're still alive and kicking.

So the only option I can see right now, or at least the one that has the better chance of working, is a prolonged strangulation of their economy -- sorry to put it that way -- because only then will I think that they might have the incentive to come forward and make some material gesture toward us.

They keep saying the regime -- the straits are open, but it sounds like the details are not worked out. And so I think President Trump has to hold out this possibility of continued economic blockade to get a truly open Strait of Hormuz. And then that might be the portal through which we can talk about the highly enriched uranium.

BROWN: And it's so interesting, because that, the Strait of Hormuz, wasn't even the issue that started this war. And now it's such a big sticking point.

And you have China getting in the middle of all of this, right...

SANNER: Yes.

BROWN: ... with the U.S. and Iran trying to get the Strait of Hormuz open.

Do you see China as being a big power broker in a potential settlement?

SANNER: I don't, actually.

I think that they have words to speak, but I don't think that they're going to wade too far into this conflict. And I don't think that they want to derail completely the U.S. effort to have more stability in the relationship. They want this summit to come off.

But I think that what you were talking about, Michael, is that it just shows you, at this point, we should have more cards than we do, and we really are short on our tool deck. And when Ambassador Waltz said yesterday -- I thought he gave some very cogent strategic analysis, but I think where I differ with him is this idea that has Iran has no cards.

[11:40:07]

I don't think that that's true at all. And they are much more bold in playing their cards.

BROWN: What do you think about that? And how do you see China's role right now?

ALLEN: So, I think Iran is in a strategic good position, because I think they have discovered that, yes, a Strait of Hormuz play works for us, and we don't even necessarily need to do it kinetically. We can do it just by threatening. I think this asymmetric threat is going to be around for many years to come. And it's something that we're going to have to cope with over time.

On China, I know everyone assumes that, because they import so much Iranian oil, that they want to help us. I don't really think that's the case. I think they have tremendous reserves of oil and gas. I think they have plenty of resilience. So, at most, they may say, well, I hope you can reach an agreement.

But the idea that they're either going to cut them off militarily or diplomatically I think is a bridge too far, even if we're in the context of a Xi Jinping-President Trump summit here in the middle of May.

BROWN: All right, Michael Allen, Beth Sanner, thank you so much for your analysis.

And we will be right back.

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WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Happening now: Pope Leo is in the African country of Angola right now, as he continues a tour through part of the continent.

The first American pope looks to bring a message of peace and encouragement to the African continent. But, this morning, he criticized exploitation by authoritarians around the world.

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POPE LEO XIV, LEADER OF CATHOLIC CHURCH (through translator): We can see today how many of people's wishes are frustrated by violence, exploited by authoritarians, and defrauded by wealth. When injustice corrupts hearts, the bread of all becomes the possession of a few.

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BLITZER: This was the latest strongly worded speech from the pope during his trip, which has drawn criticism, as you know, from President Trump.

CNN's Vatican correspondent, Christopher Lamb, is traveling with the pontiff, and he has more right now from Angola.

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CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Pope Leo is continuing his marathon trip across Africa. He's here in Saurimo, which is in Northeastern Angola, to celebrate mass and to visit a nursing home.

Here in Saurimo is the heart of the diamond mining industry in Angola. And whilst in this country, Leo has been talking about the problem of exploitation and inequality, key themes of his visit to Africa.

I have been amongst the crowd talking to people. And they want the pope to bring a message of peace. They want him to speak out about inequalities. And, also, they're concerned about people affected by floods recently in Angola. But they see in the pope a figure of someone who can speak out about these issues.

Now, Leo is on a four-nation tour of Africa. Angola is the third stop on it. And, on Tuesday, he travels to Equatorial Guinea. His time in Africa has been very significant, because, of course, this is a part of the world where the Catholic Church is growing, is dynamic.

And it's here that around a fifth of all Catholics live, many of them young. So, there is a sense of hope for the church in this part of the world. Leo has seemed very much at ease here. He visited at the weekend a shrine which was the site of a hub of the transatlantic slave trade.

And he also spoke out on Sunday for peace in the Middle East and for Angolans to overcome past divisions, so Leo continuing his marathon and historic trip across Africa.

Christopher Lamb, CNN, Saurimo.

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BLITZER: And, to Christopher Lamb, we say thank you. Thank you very much.

Also new this morning, Lebanon's president says his country's peace talks with Israel should be separate from any negotiations on resolving the war with Iran. Israeli and Lebanese ambassadors gathered in Washington last week, marking the first bilateral meeting between the two governments in some 40 years.

President Joseph Aoun says Lebanon now faces two options -- and I'm quoting him now -- "either the continuation of the war, with all its humanitarian, social, economic and sovereignty repercussions, or negotiation to put an end to this war and achieve sustainable stability" -- end quote.

Joining us now is Aline Kamakian. She's with the World Central Kitchen Chef Corps feeding communities in Lebanon amid this humanitarian crisis.

Aline, thanks for all you're doing. Thanks so much for what the World Central Kitchen is doing.

What has the situation been like there in Lebanon, where you are? What are you hearing from the people you serve?

ALINE KAMAKIAN, WORLD CENTRAL KITCHEN CHEF CORPS: Thank you for having me.

The peace process or the cease-fire is not 100 percent. People are trying to go back to their villages. But, again, they -- most of them, they came back because of what's happening, especially in the south. People are a bit tired and very down.

They're going and seeing their villages all into -- became a football field. And their houses, they're not finding anything anymore. Very little people find their houses. The government said around 38,000 houses are gone in the south only. The -- 20 percent of the suburb of Beirut is gone.

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So, people came back to the shelter. Between Friday and Saturday, we had people who went to the south and came back. Shelters are filled again. And our shelters are not very well equipped, and it's not meant as shelters. There are either public schools or sports stadium, where the minimum of the basic needs is not there.

So, we are feeding 25,000 meals per day, and it's not enough. People -- there is a lot of people who doesn't have access to food, unfortunately.

BLITZER: How many meals, in general, has World Central Kitchen provided in Lebanon amid this entire crisis? And how many more do you hope to serve?

KAMAKIAN: Since March the 2nd, we have done more than 1.2 million hot meals served already. We are serving per day around 25,000, and a bit more.

Hopefully, we can -- we will be able to increase, because the need is increasing very fast. We are increasing every day, but the need is much more than what we can provide. Funds are getting limited. People are getting hungrier and hungrier. The poverty is getting -- it's hitting everyone, no work, no house, no dignity anymore.

People are relying more on the aid, rather than to be able for themself to be able to cook or to touch an ingredient. Today, the increase of the prices is hitting us very hard because what's going on outside and what's going on in Lebanon also.

We have more than 40 percent increase of everything. So, the inflation also is killing us.

BLITZER: How has the cease-fire impacted World Central Kitchen's ability to feed more people in Lebanon? And what happens to your work if the cease-fire expires at the end of this week?

KAMAKIAN: With the cease-fire, what we have done is, we managed to adapt. And we are following our internal displaced people. So the number didn't decrease, but just we changed our position or the kitchen, so that we are closer to the people that needs us.

Numbers are getting higher and higher because of the situation. And don't forget a lot of Lebanese lands are taken by the Israelis. And a lot of -- most of the plantation and most of the agricultural land are in the south and the Bekaa. Both areas are the most weakened and taken and the phos -- and the white phosphorus.

So we are hit also by the agriculture of Lebanon. Even the vegetables that we plant in Lebanon, we're not able to have it as usual in this -- especially in this season. So, everything is hit, the pricing, the location, the poverty, the war.

And what we're trying with World Central Kitchen is to try to reach the most of the people to be able to feed them the most. But, again, the need is faster than us, unfortunately.

BLITZER: Aline, thank you so much for all you and World Central Kitchen are doing in Lebanon and indeed elsewhere around the world.

And, to our viewers, you can find out how you can help civilians impacted by the Middle East conflict by going to the Web site at the bottom of the screen. That's CNN.com/Impact.

And we will be right back.

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BROWN: Breaking news: An investigation into a possible mass shooting is under way in North Carolina, according to authorities.

I want to bring in CNN national correspondent Dianne Gallagher in Charlotte.

What are you learning, Dianne?

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so the information is coming in pretty quickly on this right now, Pamela, but I can tell you that the North Carolina State Bureau of Investigations just released a little bit more information, saying that they are still currently responding to a shooting that took place in Winston-Salem at a park near a middle school. Now, they say that several people have been shot. There are two who

are deceased. According to police in Winston-Salem, this is a -- quote -- "isolated incident." It remains under active investigation. They say that classes at that middle school and also a nearby high school remain ongoing.

They have told parents, if they want to pick their kids up, they can. And they have a lot of road closures in the area. Now, police say that several individuals, including juveniles in this situation, have been identified both as suspects and as victims in this case.

They say that there is a -- due to the number of people involved in this, their efforts are ongoing right now to account for everyone. They got a phone call to respond to an incident that began, they said, as a fight at 9:52 a.m. at that park and said that, while officers were en route, it escalated into a shooting.

They said this was not an active shooter call for service. Instead, it did stem from, in their words, a planned fight between two young individuals. Now, police have been using drones to search for people who were involved in this at this time, again, road closures around that park.

And we will continue to bring you information as we can get it from authorities there in Winston-Salem. But, right now, according to the state Bureau of Investigations, two are deceased and there are numerous other individuals involved. Some of them are children.

BROWN: And, just to be clear, this was not an active shooter call for service. So it's believed the kids in the nearby schools, that they are safe, right?

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GALLAGHER: According to police right now, yes, they are.

And we have reached out to the school district. We have not been able to get in contact with them at this time. But police are telling parents that, if they do want to get their kids, there are certain roads that they can take. But they are saying that, at this time, classes continue as normal and they are continuing their investigation.

BROWN: All right, Dianne Gallagher, thank you so much.

BLITZER: And, to our viewers, thanks very much for joining us this morning.

BROWN: "INSIDE POLITICS" with our friend and colleague Dana Bash starts right now.