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The Situation Room

CNN Founder Ted Turner Dies. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired May 06, 2026 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:00]

WALTER ISAACSON, FORMER CNN CHAIRMAN AND CEO: We made him a person of the year, because that vision of what CNN could be wasn't just about television. It was about international affairs and the global society.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: It really is a sad moment for all of us, knowing that Ted Turner has now passed away, because he was such an inspiration to so many of us. And he created this cable news network that really changed the world.

When I went to the then-Soviet Union, the Soviet Union was about to collapse, and I did that first interview, I just got to Moscow from Washington, with Air Marshal Yevgeniy Shaposhnikov, and he was doing a powerful live interview on CNN with me. And he was speaking in Russian. We were doing simultaneous translation.

And, at one point, I said to him: "Why did you decide to give your first and only new interview" -- he was about to become the defense minister of the Soviet Union -- "to CNN and me?"

He said: "Because we were so grateful to CNN for showing the world what was going on in the weeks and months leading up to the collapse of the Soviet Union and we wanted to underscore that commitment, that appreciation of what CNN was doing that led to this moment, the collapse of the Soviet Union, the creation of a new Russia."

And it was just a very, very meaningful moment to hear Yevgeniy Shaposhnikov, the air marshal, the now-defense minister of Russia, say that to me live on CNN during this interview. It's just one of so many moments in my career at CNN that what Ted Turner did inspired and made the world a better place.

And I'm sure, Walter, you have thoughts along those lines as well.

ISAACSON: Yes, I think the entire revolutions that happened in the '80s were largely communication-driven.

In fact, that's true throughout history, whether it's Gutenberg doing movable type or the Internet. When you have satellite television that transcends borders, it can truly change things. And you and I remember well during the very first Gulf War, the very first Iraq War, Bernie Shaw and others. They're covering war live.

Now, imagine that, when you're covering a war as it's happening live. Heisenberg had the principle that, when you observe a particle, you affect either its motion or its position, just that sort of a Ted Turner effect, that now everything that happens in this world is happening live globally.

BLITZER: It is really an amazing moment, especially for those of us who were covering that first Gulf War, seeing our reporters, our camerapeople in Baghdad risking their lives. The bombs were coming in. And they were reporting the news and the whole world was watching, thanks to CNN.

All these countries were just dumping out of their own coverage and taking CNN's coverage. It was just such a powerful, meaningful moment for all of us. And Ted Turner really created that moment and he deserves so much, so much respect, which he's getting right now, obviously, now that he's passed away.

And it's just a sad, sad moment.

ISAACSON: I hope that his passing -- I hope that his passing and the fact that he was such a visionary can remind those in the media, those of us in the world, those of us in society that we are all connected, that there was a time when we didn't all go down different silos of information.

We didn't have information systems designed to enrage us, but they were designed to inform us. And we're at a 250th of America. It'd be nice to say, how do we get back to that common ground we used to have of information systems and of a cable network like Ted envisioned that was going to cover the world?

BLITZER: And he was a great father, a great grandfather, a great, great-great-grandfather, loved his family so much. I saw that when I went out to Montana, spent some time with him at his ranch. I saw it when I was down in Atlanta and he would invite me to have lunch or dinner.

It was just that I heard his stories, and, for me, they were all so meaningful, so important, so powerful. We will all miss him so much.

Walter, thank you so much for your thoughts. We really appreciate it.

ISAACSON: We will miss him desperately. And he loved you, Wolf.

So thank you for having me on.

BLITZER: Thank you for joining us. Appreciate it very much.

And let's begin this new hour of our show with breaking news.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BLITZER: And it's news that really tugs at the heart of the entire CNN family here in the United States and around the world.

Ted Turner, the philanthropist, the media visionary who founded CNN, has, sadly, died at the age of 87. PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Colorful, brilliant, and often brash, he was

a force of nature, by all accounts, and devoted his vast resources to make the world a better place.

[11:05:08]

Wolf looks back at his remarkable legacy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TERRY MCGUIRK, FORMER CEO, TURNER BROADCASTING SYSTEM: He broke every mold. He changed the world.

BLITZER (voice-over): Known as the Mouth of the South and Captain Outrageous, Ted Turner built a media empire that changed cable news forever.

TED TURNER, CNN FOUNDER: I didn't have any upper limits to how far we could go.

BLITZER: Champion, philanthropist, environmentalist.

TURNER: I don't know how to quit. It's not in my genes.

BLITZER: But growing up wasn't easy for Ted. Born in Cincinnati, Ohio, in 1938, his parents sent him to boarding school when he was just 4 years old.

TURNER: I didn't like boarding school. I wanted to be home.

BLITZER: Ted's little sister, whom he adored, died of lupus at 17. About two years later, Ted dropped out of Brown University. He'd been studying classics until his father cut off the money.

TURNER: He thought I was wasting my time.

BLITZER: So he went to work for his dad's billboard company. But tragedy struck again when his father killed himself.

TURNER: He went against everything he -- that he taught me, be courageous and hang in there.

BLITZER: Ted took over the family business and coped with the loss by working even harder.

TURNER: He said: "Set your goals so high that you can't achieve them in your lifetime."

BLITZER: When Ted wasn't working, he turned to the sport he loved, sailing...

TURNER: We have got to go fast as we can here.

BLITZER: ... and won the sport's top race, the America's Cup.

TURNER: I had worked very hard. It took me a number of years to become a champion.

BLITZER: He put that same drive into expanding the business. In 1970, Ted bought a struggling TV station.

MCGUIRK: It was a broken-down UHF television station in Atlanta. He was going to transform UHF television into this new world of satellite television.

BLITZER: Ted renamed the station WTBS, and it became the country's first Superstation.

MCGUIRK: What Ted made happen was just as important as the Internet revolution of the '90s and 2000s.

BLITZER: But starting out, Ted needed content. He bought the Atlanta Braves and broadcast their games nationwide.

NARRATOR: The Atlanta Braves.

BLITZER: The Braves became America's team.

MCGUIRK: When we bought them in 1976, they were terrible.

BLITZER: By 1995, Ted and his team were World Series champs. As he built the Superstation, he set his sights even higher, on a 24-hour news channel.

TURNER: I worked until 7:00. And when I got home, the news was over. So I missed television news completely. And I figured there were lots of people like me.

JIMMY CARTER, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: People did look upon that as a foolish idea that was destined for failure, but they underestimated Ted Turner.

TOM JOHNSON, FORMER CNN PRESIDENT: Most of the leaders of the world thought Ted was nuts.

TURNER: We sign on, on June 1. And barring satellite problems in the future, we won't be signing off until the world ends.

(LAUGHTER)

TURNER: We will be on. We will cover it live.

I dedicate the news channel for America, the Cable News Network.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take 11, my cue.

BLITZER: CNN aired its first broadcast on June 1, 1980.

DAVID WALKER, FORMER CNN HOST: Good evening. I'm David Walker.

LOIS HART, FORMER CNN HOST: And I'm Lois Hart. Now here's the news.

BLITZER: It took five years to turn a profit. TURNER: I lived for 20 years in my office.

JOHNSON: He was one of us. I mean, he would be in his house, coat down, having breakfast in the hard news cafe.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And we will get better by the end of the week.

(LAUGHTER)

BLITZER: Critics called it Chicken Noodle News.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello, Baghdad.

BLITZER: But the Gulf War would give CNN the respect it deserved.

PETER ARNETT, FORMER CNN CORRESPONDENT: You can hear the bombs now. They are hitting the center of the city.

BLITZER: It was the first time a war was broadcast live on television, and it was only on CNN.

TURNER: I still believe that was the greatest scoop in the history of journalism.

TONY CLARK, OBSERVER: You can see her there. She's...

JOHNSON: Ted didn't care as much about ratings as he did about being the most trusted man in news.

BLITZER: Ted also cared about the world. Over a 10-year period, he donated a billion dollars to the United Nations.

TURNER: I'm no poorer than I was nine months ago, and the world is a lot better off.

BLITZER: And he expanded his empire, launching networks like TNT and Turner Classic Movies.

In his personal life, Ted was married and divorced twice with five children before he finally met his match, Jane Fonda.

TURNER: She agreed to have dinner with me. For me, it was love at first sight.

JANE FONDA, FORMER WIFE OF TED TURNER: I can't ever forget the reasons that made me fall in love with him. I have never met any human being that thinks the way Ted does.

BLITZER: Ted was a visionary, a titan, even "TIME" magazine's Man of the Year.

[11:10:01]

But, in 1996, he sold his networks to Time Warner. He got almost $8 billion.

JOHNSON: I said: "Ted, if you sell, you will no longer be captain of your own ship."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ted Turner. Ted.

(APPLAUSE)

BLITZER: Five years later, Time Warner merged with AOL and Ted was out.

JOHNSON: Ted used the description "I have been fired." Ted got shafted. And it hurt.

TURNER: It was more than just a company. To me, it was a way of life.

BLITZER: He lost his empire and the love of his life. After 10 years of marriage, he and Jane parted ways.

(on camera): But you love her still...

TURNER: Yes.

BLITZER: ... to this very day.

TURNER: To this very day.

BLITZER (voice-over): But Ted never gave up, his final act, saving the planet. He created the U.N. Foundation and the Nuclear Threat Initiative.

On his Montana ranch, he made it his mission to save the bison.

TURNER: Hi. Well, you never go home, do you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you. Yes, I know.

(LAUGHTER)

BLITZER: And he opened restaurants to ensure their survival.

CARTER: Ted's love of the outdoors has made him perhaps the number one environmentalist that I have ever known.

BLITZER: Before his 80th birthday, Ted revealed he had Lewy body dementia, a progressive disease. He spent his final years treasuring private moments, his ranch and his family.

FONDA: He wants to know that, when he goes out, it will be with the love of his children and grandchildren.

MCGUIRK: You can never take away what he created and what he did.

JOHNSON: We have never seen a man quite like Ted Turner before on this planet. And I don't think we will ever see another one like him again.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Really one of a kind.

BLITZER: He really was.

And our deepest, deepest condolences to his family and to his friends. He was a very, very special man. As we say, may he rest in peace and may his memory be a blessing.

BROWN: And, Wolf, I know this is emotional for you and others who came to CNN at the very beginning.

And one of those people is, of course, CNN chief international anchor Christiane Amanpour.

You were an early hire here at CNN,and you quickly rose up the ranks, Christiane, to become the international correspondent. Tell us more about the impact Ted Turner had bringing CNN global.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Well, I think that is the other side of his story. There's the amazing American success story, the businessman, the visionary, the revolutionary who created really a media revolution.

And, you know, every single thing that followed him, anything in the 24/7 genre started with Ted Turner. Everything was a copy, if I dare say so myself, and not the best copies. He was the original.

And he made us all proud and he made us all hopeful. And he made us all strive for his vision of a better world, whether it was in news or whether it was in the philanthropy. He was the first of the modern-day philanthropists after the Carnegies and the Mellons and the Rockefellers of their generation, as Wolf just pointed out, when he gave a billion dollars to the U.N. Foundation.

And then Bill Gates and then Warren Buffett and then Michael Bloomberg, and all the others joined in to follow in that incredibly noble pursuit. He was big, huge on climate. And that's a global issue, obviously. He was way ahead of the curve on climate and climate mitigation.

And I remember asking him in one of my last interviews with him: "What would you say to the young people who look up to you and who want to make their own first billion dollars? How would you suggest they do that now?"

And he said: "Climate, green technology, the green economy."

He was so sure, and he was always so absolutely right. And, as Wolf was saying, he was somebody who believed in breaking down the barriers between peoples and between nations.

I remember, when I was still in 1980s in New York and I was climbing up the ranks -- I started in September 1983 in Atlanta. And I remember, when he banned the word foreign, and I was absolutely devastated. I wanted to be a foreign correspondent, like Edward R. Murrow and all those people. And he brought the word international. And it wasn't just a little

thing. It was because he didn't want to drive a wedge into people by calling them foreign. And he didn't want to have separation. Imagine that kind of leader and what we're left with right now, when everything's about weaponization of identities and beliefs and all the rest of it.

He was exactly the opposite. When he took CNN international in 1985, what he did was not just be the first ever global TV 24/7 behemoth, network, but he also chipped down the walls of state and authoritarian regulated media.

So, all these nations where the people could only see what they were fed by their authoritarian leaders -- and I'm now talking about that part of the world -- he gave them something else. He opened their eyes to the rest of the world. And I thought that was absolutely fundamental.

[11:15:13]

And he said to us when we were in the Gulf War, he said, look, I'm not going to force anybody to be in Baghdad, which, of course, was the enemy capital for the United States. We had been reporting in Saudi Arabia and around. And we also had distinguished ourselves as CNN, the reporters there, in Baghdad.

But when it came to the war, you had the president, you had the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, you had all these people call Tom Johnson, our president, and say you better get your people out of Baghdad because it's going to be real, and they might get killed.

And Tom basically went to Ted and said what he had heard, and Ted said, look, I'm not going to force anybody. It will be volunteer, but we must be in Baghdad. In other words, we must tell all sides of the story.

And how incredibly important is that in today's world, when, when we tell all sides of the story, we can be accused of taking sides. No, we're telling all sides of the story without fear nor favor, whether it's in the Middle East, whether it's on climate, whatever it might be, whether it's in the United States and elsewhere.

So, look, remember when giants strode the world. Ted Turner was a giant, and he risked his life in many occasions, including in his swashbuckling sailor days, winning the America's Cup, but also the Fastnet Race, one of the most dangerous ever around the Isle of Wight.

The race he won that year, there was more than a dozen people killed in a massive storm there. So he was brave. He was -- I was going to say ballsy, but he was really. He said it like it was and like it is. And we were his willing foot soldiers.

And I think he changed not just the world, but all of our lives too.

BLITZER: And I remember, Christiane, when all of a sudden I see you on television for CNN in Saudi Arabia during the Gulf War, and I said to myself, Christiane is risking her life. That -- those areas in Saudi Arabia where you were, were going to be the targets of Iraqi Scud missiles.

And you were there risking your life, but you were determined to report the news. I assume you were inspired by what you were hearing from Ted directly.

AMANPOUR: Yes, look, I'm not going to tell you that Ted was my friend at that age. I was a -- I was very, very junior, and I reported to Eason Jordan and Tom Johnson and the others, our immediate bosses and president of the network.

But we always admired him. And I remember, and this is relevant, when I was in Atlanta at the beginning, and, Ted, as he told you, used to sometimes stay in his office, which was above the shop. And, indeed, it was. And we would see him sometimes on the weekend come into the newsroom in his -- his robe, his dressing gown and his pajamas, to get his breakfast from the -- what do you call it, the snack room.

I don't know. He was putting money into the snack room to get crappy coffee and, I don't know, silly snacks and things like that. But that means he was there. We were always aware of Ted Turner. He didn't separate himself from the people and the masses who worked for him. He really was a presence.

And I remember, sometimes, when -- when he left. And, of course, selling to Time Warner was great. It was a real publishing company. Time Warner was a great company. It was the disastrous sale and merger with AOL that started the downfall really.

And Ted wasn't afraid. He would complain about what was happening to CNN. And I know some people think he whined too much. I'm like, no, he cares. I want him to whine. I want him to care. I want to work for somebody who absolutely cares and holds up this vision of truth and facts and going there and being people's eyes and ears and bringing unprecedented reporting.

CNN has unprecedented reporting still from around the world. That is a Ted Turner legacy, and nobody else has it. And that's what we bring to the world. And he was always my inspiration.

But, in Saudi Arabia, to say, of course, we were on the U.S. side, so we were not in immediate danger. But, of course, had there been Iraqi big attacks, we would have been. But CNN sent three women to cover the Saudi side of the story. Remember, Saudi Arabia in 1990 was very anti- women, very patriarchal, all of that.

And we managed to do it. And somehow Ted and Eason and Tom didn't think there was anything wrong with sending three junior women to cover the buildup of American forces and the massive coalition of eventually 500,000 forces. It was Colin Powell's doctrine of overwhelming strength. And we saw it happen in the Gulf War.

And that was a war, compared to the one that's going on now, that had a plan, that went to the U.N., that had allies, that had an exit plan, and it was done and dusted. And it -- it happened. And the Iraq side was the stuff that history is made of.

[11:20:07]

BLITZER: Really.

And when I saw you in Saudi Arabia and the other women from CNN who were reporting the news from Saudi Arabia, I said to myself, this is CNN. Women, men, everybody gets involved, reports the news fairly and accurately and do a great job, risking their own lives in the process.

It was just an inspiring moment for all of us who were at CNN to see you, Christiane, in those days and all these years later report the news as brilliantly as you always do. And I think I say -- speak for all of our viewers. Thank you, Christiane, very, very much.

BROWN: Yes, for sure.

BLITZER: And, Pamela...

AMANPOUR: Thank you, Wolf.

And thank you most especially to Ted Turner.

BROWN: Yes.

BLITZER: Yes, definitely.

BROWN: We're all here doing this because of Ted.

And you talk about his presence, Christiane, and how you felt it. He was always around, kind of looming over you. And I can say, even though he has passed away, we -- his presence will live on here. And Wolf, I know, will continue to channel him and what he would tell you, the news comes first, right?

CNN is the Cable News Network. And we have this tremendous responsibility moving forward to carry on the values that Ted Turner instilled here at CNN.

I want to go now to someone else who knew Ted Turner and actually met with him before he started CNN. That would be Tammy Haddad, the creator and executive producer of CNN's "LARRY KING LIVE."

All right, Tammy, you were Larry King's radio producer and came to CNN with him to launch the show in 1985. Bring us back there.

TAMMY HADDAD, CREATOR AND EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, "LARRY KING LIVE": Well, it's funny, because you think about, you're such a successful producer. I booked Ted Turner. He's coming on our little radio show in the middle of nowhere in Crystal City.

And he gets in the room and he pitches Larry King to come to CNN. The whole idea, as you have said so well, as Christiane said, was very new. But Mutual Radio said, well, wait, you have to pay us to use Larry King. So it was many years later, really, in 1985, that it started. But Ted

Turner looked at Larry and said, this is a guy that's entertaining. This is a guy that will complement the news. So we did cover news and also all the people and personalities. And that was the key thing about it.

And I'm going to tell you, Pamela, we were the first ones to put Wolf Blitzer on the show when he was at "The Jerusalem Post."

BROWN: I love that.

HADDAD: You talk about Christiane Amanpour.

We took a lot of chances. Most of the people you see on TV today started on shows like "LARRY KING LIVE," because Ted Turner said, go do it. Get it out there. Let's see what's happening around the world.

I remember, one time, he sent us to -- he had this whole view of the global village. This was a line people didn't use then. The whole world can come together. Part of that was his obsession with the nuclear proliferation. It was something he worried about quite a bit.

We had a dinner, Larry, Mario Cuomo, who was the most important Democrat at the time, the governor of New York. And he was trying to get him to sign this. You have to stop nuclear proliferation. But he sent us to -- we went to Tokyo. We went to Hong Kong because he wanted to show the world what the global village was.

So it wasn't enough to just broadcast from around the world. He wanted to actually take us all out there. And I remember calling management and saying: "I think -- Ted Turner talks about the global village. We are around the world. Why don't we take calls from people around the world?"

And I remember leadership is like, why would we possibly do that? And there we are, calls from Riyadh, calls from around the world. Those things didn't happen then. It was Ted Turner who was right there and wanted it all to happen and wanted to make sure that people were connected to what was happening in news.

BROWN: Wolf, I know you were there. And Tammy mentioned that you first went on that show for CNN,and Ted Turner watched you and eventually hired you and then...

HADDAD: And loved him.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Yes.

HADDAD: He loved Wolf so much.

Wolf, in many ways, you are CNN. You started it all. People would come to you and they believed in you. And what you have done in the last few weeks have again shown not just your value, but the importance of live news. And as our whole industry is changing and people are going to these

clips online, there is nothing like what you're doing, what Pamela is doing with doing CNN. And we need it. And we need it to continue.

And, honestly, God bless Ted Turner for opening the door. I was there at the beginning of FOX News. I was also at MSNBC. Been around a long time. And I remember Roger Ailes saying, CNN goes live to go live. We don't have to do that.

Well, do you watch FOX News now? They go live everywhere all the time, because it was the great lesson that people want to see it with their own eyes.

[11:25:08]

BLITZER: And let me just point out, Pamela and Tammy, that, when I was invited by Tammy and Larry King to come on "LARRY KING LIVE" to talk about the book that I had just written, "The Territory of Lies," the story of the Jonathan Jay Pollard spy case, I was invited.

Harper & Row, my publisher, said, go on "LARRY KING LIVE." It will be good to sell your book. And the fact of the matter is, Larry kept me on the show for an hour, and we talked about it. We took fewer phone calls for an hour.

And my book became a "New York Times" bestseller as a result. And, as a result of that, "The New York Times" Book Review Section cited it as one of the most important books of the year. And that's one of the reasons that Ted Turner eventually came to me and said, you want to be our Pentagon correspondent?

And, of course, I said yes, and the rest is history. But it was Tammy and Larry who started that ball rolling when they invited me to come on CNN, on "LARRY KING LIVE," which was -- and, Tammy, correct me if I'm wrong -- CNN's number one watched show 9:00 p.m. Monday through Friday, right?

HADDAD: The entire time, for sure.

And also you remind me, in '92, when we found Ross Perot. And if you remember, at the time, like, the that this, not a candidate, but a regular guy -- now, he was the bestselling author. People had tracked the book and how he had rescued his team from Iran.

The fact that this individual person from Texas, not well-known, could go on CNN, go on "LARRY KING LIVE," and then catch fire -- and that's what happened, just like with you, Wolf. People learned about these, not the sophisticated thought leaders and all the great institutions around the world, but regular people who made news, regular people who all of a sudden were in an extraordinary situation.

And, at the time, it was a little controversial, I would say, some of our friends in the NEWSROOM, why does Larry King have this 9:00-to- 10:00 slot, when we should be talking about news?

But we're talking about people in the news, why do things happen? And, of course, "People" magazine, entire industries on it. And there's nothing more special than seeing people talk about their own story, as you guys do so well every day.

BROWN: And I think it's another example, Tammy, of Ted Turner having an eye for talent and being a visionary, putting a show like that on air that became number one, hiring Wolf Blitzer, who became an icon.

I think it all just speaks to Ted Turner and his vision and just how relentless he was in pursuing his vision and making it come to life.

Tammy, thank you so much for coming on to share your stories.

And, Wolf, I want you to be part of this conversation with Judy Woodruff, a former CNN anchor and current "PBS NewsHour" senior correspondent.

Thank you so much for coming on.

And, as you reflect on Ted, I was reading part of your story. When you were first hired at CNN, you asked him about hiring a female journalist.

JUDY WOODRUFF, "PBS NEWSHOUR": I did.

BROWN: And so much of the through line we have been talking about is how Ted didn't care what societal expectations were. He had his own vision. He pushed the envelope. And he put women in positions at the time where you didn't see, right?

He was ahead of his game then. Tell us about that.

WOODRUFF: Well, he was always -- he believed that women should have every bit an important role as the men at the network.

But the story you're telling is, when Tom Johnson, who had asked me to join CNN as an anchor in Washington, took me -- basically said, come to Atlanta. I want you to meet Ted Turner before this all finalizes.

And the first question I had for Ted was: "So, tell me, what do you think about women journalists? How do you feel about women at this network?"

He said: "Are you kidding? I'm married to Jane Fonda."

And it kind of put an end to the conversation, to that part of the conversation. But he believed in hiring women. I mean, Bernie Shaw -- he brought Bernie on board at the very early -- in the very earliest days of the network. Bernie and I were co-anchors over my years at CNN.

He wanted a newsroom that reflected the country. And, as you have been saying with all these wonderful folks who've been talking to you the last few minutes, Pamela, he wanted people who cared about the news and put the news first.

And those were the people he hired. BROWN: Wolf?

BLITZER: You know, I always was impressed, Judy, that our lead anchors at CNN were a woman and an African-American, Bernie Shaw, a man who was my mentor, who I loved very much, who helped me become a broadcast journalist.

And I miss him. And I deeply appreciate everything he did. But it was Ted Turner who gave you guys that opportunity. And he really changed the news business.

WOODRUFF: He changed the news business. I mean, I would go so far, Wolf, as to say he transformed the news business.