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Bills Set to Play Lions; Russia Helping Iran Hit U.S. Assets?; Interview With Rep. Josh Gottheimer (D-NJ). Aired 10:30a-11a ET

Aired September 17, 2026 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: A new CNN investigation reveals how Russian spy satellites over the Persian Gulf likely helped Iran hit U.S. assets with devastating precision, injuring personnel and destroying key resources. And this includes a plane worth millions of dollars that serves as Washington's eyes in the sky in the region.

CNN's Tamara Qiblawi investigates.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TAMARA QIBLAWI, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIONS REPORTER (voice-over): This is the launch of Cosmos 2573, one of Russia's elite spy satellites currently collecting intelligence across the globe.

Now CNN has learned that these satellites have likely given Iran a considerable advantage in its fight against the U.S., capturing not just what U.S. military sites look like, but also exposing their inner workings. Our sources, including two U.S. officials, tell us they have evidence that those satellites are feeding some of that intelligence back to Iran, aiding at least some precision strikes.

The apparent synergy between Russian satellites and Iran's rockets is laid bare here, Prince Sultan Air Base.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: And we begin with the breaking news, Iran striking a U.S. base, Iranian state media releasing this image, which shows a strike at the Prince Sultan Air Base near Riyadh in Saudi Arabia.

QIBLAWI: A major Iranian attack on March 27. The U.S. has had a strategic presence here for decades.

According to our sources, Russian satellites played a vital role in these strikes, which wreaked havoc on the base and injured 12 U.S. personnel. Now, we do not have access to Russia's satellite images, but we looked at the orbital data, tracking satellites and assessing their visibility over sites of interest with help from space technology experts Project Aurora and Kayhan Space, who provided us with the images you see. Here's the Cosmos 2573 again just two days before the attack. It flies

over the base along with 13 other Russian spy satellites. Our analysis shows that these spacecrafts moved in both a perfect sequence and had a perfect view to collect rich multisensory data.

Each of these satellites contributes a different part of the intelligence picture. Cosmos 2573 captures deep and detailed military- grade satellite imagery. These eight are signal satellites. They can intercept radio and radar emissions, allowing them to locate air defenses that can shoot down the incoming missiles.

These two are infrared satellites. They pick up heat signatures, the kind that comes from rocket launchers. And, finally, three synthetic aperture radar satellites known as SAR. They're able to see through clouds and darkness and flag physical changes, showing, for example, where a movable high-value asset might be repositioned, like this plane, the Airborne Warning and Control System, AWACS for short, America's eyes in the skies in the Middle East.

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Crucially, the AWACS was not parked in its prewar location. On March 27, Iran destroyed it, an aircraft worth hundreds of millions of dollars and very, very difficult to replace.

The scale of the damage to the base and the accuracy of the strikes would have been nearly impossible without Russian geospatial intelligence, according to our sources.

(on camera): And this isn't an isolated incident. Now, there is some debate among U.S. officials over just how consequential Russian support has been, but our sources broadly suspect that Russian satellites gave Iran targeting information several more times over the course of the war, including at a CIA facility in the Saudi capital.

NAWAF OBAID, SENIOR FELLOW, KING'S COLLEGE: We wouldn't be in this situation today, the war wouldn't be where it is today if it wasn't for these unique capabilities that the Russians gave to the Iranians.

QIBLAWI (voice-over): According to experts like Dr. Nawaf Obaid, one of the reasons Russia has been helping Iran -- Moscow calls this fake news -- is because the U.S. is working with Ukraine in a similar way through intelligence sharing to support strikes similar to these.

OBAID: You have to see it in this way. This is Russian payback with interest. It's monumental in terms of the consequences of what this has done to -- not just to the U.S. standing in the region, but to the security architecture of the region going forward.

QIBLAWI: Tamara Qiblawi, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: CNN national security analyst Alex Plitsas is here with us in THE SITUATION ROOM. He's also the director of the Counterterrorism Project at the Atlantic Council. Also with us, CNN military analyst retired U.S. Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton.

Alex, let me start with you.

CNN previously reported that Russia was giving Iran various intelligence information, but how significant is this latest development that we're now reporting that potentially what Russia is doing is help Iran destroy U.S. military targets and kill American military personnel?

ALEX PLITSAS, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: It's certainly been helpful.

And when this occurred, Cedric and I were actually talking about this, because it looked like it would have required state-sponsored help in terms of targeting, given what it was that they struck, particularly these expensive aircraft that were mentioned.

But I can confirm after speaking to several Gulf allies this morning that it wasn't just the United States, that Gulf allies also caught the Russian satellite movements and actually called them out on it, and what they got in return was typical with what comes from Moscow.

They denied, they didn't answer, or they lied to them.

BLITZER: You're talking about U.S. allies in the Gulf...

PLITSAS: Correct. Correct.

BLITZER: ... Kuwait or Bahrain or Qatar, countries, the United Arab Emirates.

PLITSAS: Correct.

And in this story, we're talking about the 14 passes that were made over the base in Saudi Arabia, but allies have also told me that numerous Russian satellite passes were made over other bases in the region where the U.S. was as well, not as many of them, but other bases that were struck, and they have also noticed.

So, multiple intelligence services from multiple countries from our allies have caught the Russians engaged in this activity.

BLITZER: What do you make, Colonel Leighton, of this argument that's being floated out there that what Russia is doing to help Iran target U.S. facilities is what the U.S. does in helping Ukraine in going after Russian targets?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, for one thing, the Ukrainians are fighting for their freedom, so the help that we give the Ukrainians is totally justified.

When you look at the actual balance sheet that the Russians would be looking at, they will certainly justify it in their minds. But the issue is this. This is actually direct engagement by the Russians against the U.S. while the U.S. is engaged in combat operations directly.

So they are clearly helping the Iranians, and that very fact should give us a lot of pause. And it also means that the Russians are definitely not our allies in any of this, nor can they be trusted as diplomatic interlocutors because of what they have done on the military front.

BLITZER: Are these acts of war by Russia against the United States?

PLITSAS: Theoretically, they are. They're assisting our adversary in engaging in combat operations that have led to the deaths and dismemberment wounds of U.S. troops and destruction of military hardware that's out there.

It goes on in the shadows. They will deny it without hard proof. This is the cold war that's been going on in the background for a long time, and it's now escalated not only from this, but also the hybrid war across Europe. Russia's fighting us on almost every front across the world.

There's also a low-density -- intensity hot war that's going on across the African continent as well with the remnants of the Wagner force that's now the Russian military's Africa corps. So we see it in Africa, we see it in Europe, we see it in the Middle East. The Russians are not our friends.

BLITZER: What does Russia get out of this?

PLITSAS: Russia's looking to weaken the United States' position, particularly as it relates to Iran, tie up additional military capabilities, and I think -- and this is -- Cedric, I don't know how you see it, but, for me, they're clearly giving them advanced missile technologies, electro-optical seekers, which is causing us to expend more of our missile interceptors.

There was a engagement where 20 were used in a single engagement, which was completely abnormal, and that's based on the changes to the missile technology, and then that means that those missiles are not available to go to Kyiv. All of this is geostrategic, and the Russians are playing chess.

LEIGHTON: Yes, and the other thing, as Alex was mentioning, we are expending far more munitions when it comes to fighting Iran than the Ukrainians are fighting the Russians.

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So one of the key things to note about this is that the asset that was mentioned in Tamara's report was the AWACS. And that asset is about a $300 million asset. To replace it, that's a significant not only amount of money, but it's also from a technical standpoint an effort by the Russians and the Iranians to try to blind us, to make sure that we don't have the reconnaissance assets that we have relied on in the past.

Now, they're not completely blinding us because we have other technologies, but the fact that they made those 14 satellite passes using the Cosmos system, that really indicates that this was a deliberate effort, and it's a deliberate effort that is designed to showcase not only Iranian capabilities, but also the Russian connection with the Iranians, which is commensurate with the agreements that the Iranians and the Russians have with each other.

BLITZER: Amidst all of this, the Houthis in Yemen are stepping up their attacks against Saudi targets, including shooting down supposedly a Saudi F-15 fighter jet. Talk about that.

LEIGHTON: Yes, so the -- there's social media video that's out there, and I have been working with some of our CNN colleagues on this. There is -- it seems pretty real to me that the Houthis were able to use an Iranian system, surface-to-air missile system to shoot down a Saudi Arabian F-15.

They have the F-15SA variant. And that really puts the Royal Saudi Air Force in a precarious situation, not only against the Houthis, but for other missions that they would have to protect the kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is in a very vulnerable place right now.

BLITZER: And the Houthis are closely aligned with Iran, right?

PLITSAS: They're closely aligned. They're probably the least disciplined of all the problem children in the region, is probably the best way to put it.

From what I'm hearing now, though, the Chinese are starting to feel it a little bit in the sense that there are -- there's a liquid natural gas shortage that's starting to hit China, and as a result of that, the Gulf allies are starting to rely on China a little bit more as an interlocutors.

So, what we found out is that the Saudis reached out directly to the Chinese after they were rebuffed for military support from the U.S., and that they asked the Chinese to politely lean on the Iranians, which they did to rein in the Houthis. We will see if it works.

But it's getting the point where multiple allies are now engaging with foreign powers trying to get this to stop because the situation, as Cedric described, is not great.

BLITZER: The situation is heating up in the Middle East, for sure.

PLITSAS: Yes.

BLITZER: Alex Plitsas, Cedric Leighton, to both of you, thank you very, very much -- Pamela.

BROWN: All right, Wolf, coming up here in THE SITUATION ROOM: more examples of A.I. behaving badly. So, what are lawmakers going to do about it?

We will ask Congressman Josh Gottheimer up next.

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BROWN: Happening now: alarming new reports of A.I. models going rogue again. OpenAI revealed it found new instances of its models acting deceptively and taking unsanctioned actions, this disclosure coming as two lawmakers propose a bipartisan plan to help businesses and federal agencies identify and control problem A.I. agents before they can cause harm.

A co-sponsor of the Stop Rogue A.I. Act joins us now, Democratic Congressman Josh Gottheimer of New Jersey.

Great to see you and have you back on the show.

REP. JOSH GOTTHEIMER (D-NJ): Thanks for having me.

BROWN: So, I'm curious what your take is on all this. You have called the current situation a five-alarm security risk. How would your bill address this risk?

GOTTHEIMER: Well, the biggest problem we have right now, and as you just pointed out, over the last weeks, we keep hearing more and more of these agents when they're developing their new models of these frontier models at OpenAI or with Claude and Anthropic, when they're developing them, literally, the agents start talking to each other and they have caught them going rogue, leaving the sandbox of where these developers are putting together the new models, these programmers.

And they leave and they actually attacked other sites, which is when this -- the famous Hugging -- you obviously read about the Hugging Face issue...

BROWN: Yes.

GOTTHEIMER: ... and where it went off and attacked another site.

What basically happens is, these agents, they actually line up, and they found in that case there was a lead agent that lined up all the agents and they talked to each -- start talking to each other, and they jumped ship and they started going and finding the information that they needed.

The problem is, they stopped following directions, and you can imagine the threats to our national security, our cybersecurity, our critical infrastructure, our water infrastructure if these agents start going rogue and doing things that, say, our adversaries want to attack us and give direct orders to these agents to go do things and find a way to hurt our country, hurt our citizens, and the consequences.

So what we really need are clear rules of the road for these agents, and that's what this piece of legislation does. It says, hey, if you have agents, you got to give them an effective driver's license, some form of identification, just like, when we go drive, you have got your insurance card, you got your driver's license.

You know, if you rear-end somebody, you go, hey, give me your license so you know who that car belongs to. We should be doing the same exact thing for these agents, give them some sort of form of identification, so if they go hack into your Web site or your small business or your bank account and steal your money, that you know who that agent belongs to who's responsible.

BROWN: But beyond that, do you think companies like OpenAI should be held accountable when their product, in this case A.I. bots, go rogue and cause potential harm like this?

GOTTHEIMER: Well, I think the person who gets hacked shouldn't be held responsible, and I think the person developing -- the people developing the latest frontier models, they got to be on the hook for actually the activity of what's going on here.

And the best way to make sure that we have -- in my opinion, that we prevent problems in the first place is that we submit and we require these frontier models to be submitted for national security reviews to the federal government, right? And, to me, that's very important.

They should have mandatory reviews before they get deployed to the public, where they review -- where the government reviews these models in a tight shot clock period of time, and to ensure that they're safe, that they're not going to attack our critical infrastructure, they're not going to hack Web sites and put us at risk.

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And you can imagine why this is so important, because, if we don't put clear rules of the road out there and don't expect these companies to do everything we can to protect our country, then, in the end, we're not going to win the race in the right way.

It's very important we win this race against China, but we got to do it in the right way that protects our country and protects our national security and our people.

BROWN: And you bring up an important point that there is the China element of this and the race between the U.S. and China.

How would your bill and what you just proposed there address the issue with China's A.I. models, these open-weight models that don't have sort of the internal controls that you see with these frontier companies in the U.S.?

GOTTHEIMER: Well, listen, I think, first and foremost, we have got to be -- we have got to in our own backyard make sure we're doing the right thing.

I think there's a lot of important -- especially, I know the president's going to be visiting with Xi coming up, and I think this should be one of the issues at the top of the agenda. We talk about how we have to -- we're going to have to develop, in my opinion, global standards on this, because, listen, the risk is not just in our country.

It's also in other countries, in China and other places that are, of course, hosting these models. We have to make sure we have clear rules of the road. These things can be very destructive. They also have huge opportunity to do good with science and research and more efficient government and obviously new frontiers in education and keeping people healthy.

A lot of opportunity here, but not if it's not done in the right way. And to me there's two things we have got to be clear about. One, you got to submit for natural security reviews, critical infrastructure, cybersecurity reviews. Two, these cannot be volunteer -- these can't be voluntary.

You can't hope that some third party on the outside analyzed this and makes an opinion that -- those third parties, they don't have -- they could be helpful in some ways, but they don't have security clearances. They don't have enough compute. They don't have enough resources.

You can't have the fox guarding the henhouse here, so you got to make sure the companies, they can do their own reviews, but they're going to have to submit these models to make sure they're safe before they're released to the public, and also we need to make sure their agents are also clear about who they belong to.

BROWN: Yes.

GOTTHEIMER: So, if these agents go rogue, like in Hugging Face, that there's a clear understanding who they belong to.

BROWN: But then there's the question of the just constant self- improvement. How do you keep track of that if the model itself is just constantly improving?

GOTTHEIMER: Huge issue.

BROWN: I want to just ask you...

GOTTHEIMER: A huge -- that's a huge issue too. As you know, we're not there yet.

BROWN: Yes.

GOTTHEIMER: But these are the kind of things why Congress and many of us have put out a lot of bipartisan legislation on this, on all these different topics, from kids' safety and privacy issues to deepfakes to national security.

And we're leaving town, unfortunately, instead of actually staying here, in my opinion, and handling these things. And I hope the Republicans either call us back before the election or right after the election we deal with these issues, because time's not on our side here.

BROWN: Before we let you go, I want to get your response to this. So you know President Trump opposes calls for regulations. He says these fears are a hoax.

We asked Representative Nancy Mace about that yesterday here in THE SITUATION ROOM, and this is what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY MACE (R-SC): I agree with President Trump that it is a hoax. I would even go so far as it might even be a psyop. These are the same people in government. The government, U.S. government is running on COBOL, fax machines, and floppy disks.

We don't need them to control and regulate the, I think, greatest, most advanced technology in the history of the world. And you have to ask yourself why. Who are the donors behind these members who are pushing for this? Is it China? Because the only one who -- the one who wins when American A.I. slows down or pauses is China.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: What's your response to that?

GOTTHEIMER: I mean, that's just a deeply uninformed opinion.

I sit on the Intelligence Committee, and I'm the ranking member of the subcommittee that oversees the NSA and cyber. Let me tell you, this is not a hoax. This is something our country should take very seriously to protect our national security. There's a reason why you had someone from Anthropic not only leave their company, but put out a statement last week warning of the deep risks here.

The reason why you keep seeing more incidents that's just released with OpenAI, as you pointed out, of more incidents that are occurring as they develop these models, there's a huge risk to our -- we saw this summer in 10 states there were critical infrastructure, -- our water systems -- there were hacks and attacks.

That was not made up. So this is not a hoax. This is not a joke. This is something we have to take very seriously. Again, we can win this A.I. race, we got to do it in the right way to protect everybody. And, by the way, our other -- our adversaries are moving ahead at very fast speeds.

We got to make sure we not only keep up with them, but that we're ready for what's coming at us. And so I hope that everybody at all levels of government takes this seriously. The president, unfortunately, made comments. I don't understand what he was talking about.

BROWN: Yes.

GOTTHEIMER: Because he should know too from -- if he sees the intelligence that I'm seeing, which I'm sure he does.

BROWN: All right, Congressman Josh Gottheimer, thank you so much.

GOTTHEIMER: Thank you.

BROWN: More news when we come back.

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[10:57:51]

BLITZER: It's game day for my Buffalo Bills. They take on the Detroit Lions tonight. It's Buffalo's first regular season home game in the team's brand-new stadium in Buffalo.

BROWN: We know what you will be up to tonight, Wolf.

Let's go to our very own former Bill, Coy Wire.

I know what you will be up to tonight as well. What are we expecting from the Bills tonight, Coy?

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Oh, we are expecting Josh Allen making plays, Bill's Mafia making noise, and we're about to find out if that brand-new Highmark Stadium was built to rattle. It's not just a home opener. It's history against the Lions, who know exactly what's coming.

I played against Detroit coach Dan Campbell. He's played in Buffalo. He knows very well that Bills Mafia will bring it.

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DAN CAMPBELL, HEAD COACH, DETROIT LIONS: They love it, and they show up and they're loud and they're all in, and now you're in a new stadium. You know, it's a new environment, and it's -- this is the first one in that place, the christening. So it'll be special.

So I'm telling our guys embrace it. Keep your composure, drink it in. Enjoy this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WIRE: I used to hate playing against that guy.

Anyways, one of the coolest things Josh Allen will wear tonight will not be his helmet, Buffalo stars teaming up with new era again, shining a light on some very special young artists. The Billustration collection features Bills hats designed by kids receiving care at Golisano Children's Hospital.

Josh will wear a different one at every home game this season. Proceeds benefit the Patricia Allen Fund named in honor of Josh's late grandmother. Last year's campaign raised more than $140,000. And, Pamela, Wolf, this is the hat right here that was designed by a young fellow named Jack.

His inspiration was the thing that he loves most, color, right? Every panel's different, vibrant and unique, just like Jack. How cool is that? Kids put imagination on paper. NFL MVP puts it on his head in front of millions.

BROWN: Love that.

WIRE: And the artwork helps other kids get the care they need.

BLITZER: Yes, we have some of those wonderful hats here as well.

WIRE: Yes.

BLITZER: I love my Buffalo Bills, but I love this cause that the big beautiful Bill, in other words, Josh Allen, what he's doing for all those kids at that hospital in Buffalo.

BROWN: Really special. Really special.

BLITZER: Pamela...

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Hey, the artwork is -- it's pretty spot on too.

WIRE: Yes, good.

BLITZER: You see this Buffalo Bill?

BROWN: I see the Buffalo Bill.

WIRE: Give that green one to Pamela and match the little outfit there. It looks good.

BLITZER: All right.

BROWN: That's right.

(LAUGHTER)

BLITZER: Put it on.

BROWN: All right, thank you, Coy.

WIRE: Thank you, guys.

BROWN: Always great to see you.

WIRE: Thank you. Go, Bills.