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The Situation Room

Doomsday Scenarios Fuel Anxiety Over A.I.; How to Manage Anxiety Caused by A.I.; Couple Sues IVF Clinic. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired September 23, 2026 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:00]

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JACOB COXON, QUIT ANTHROPIC OVER A.I. FEARS: They could cause extreme havoc. For example, hacking critical infrastructure, building extinction-level bioweapons. There's a lot of ways that the A.I. could actuate itself in the world.

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PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: So, that's former Anthropic researcher Jacob Coxon sounding the alarm and sending the debate on A.I. safety into overdrive. Geoffrey Hinton, the godfather of AI, tells CNN it could already be too late for a kill switch to keep the technology under control.

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GEOFFREY HINTON, "THE GODFATHER OF A.I.": A.I. itself getting much more intelligent and taking over, A.I. taking control, a kill switch is no good for that because the A.I. will be much better than people at persuading people of things.

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BROWN: And amid these grim predictions, a new CBS/YouGov poll finds 52 percent of people surveyed think A.I. models probably or certainly will harm humans on their own. It has made anxiety over A.I. very real.

Dr. Tracy Foose joins us now. She's a psychiatrist and anxiety specialist. And, you know, if there's one thing I know about anxiety, Dr. Foose, it's that uncertainty can really feed it, right? There is so much uncertainty around A.I. right now, and now you have these predictions that it could lose-- lead to the extinction of humans by the end of the decade. What is your advice for people grappling with this anxiety right now?

DR. TRACY FOOSE, PSYCHIATRIST AND ANXIETY DISORDER SPECIALIST: Well, first of all, Pamela, thank you for having me on. This is such an important topic, but I love that you started with uncertainty. I love that you differentiated that anxiety is something we experience as an emotion when we're feeling uncertain about threat, and we contrast that with fear, which is what we feel when we know the threat is certain. When we're at war, there's a pandemic, and it's killing people we know, and we could be next.

A.I. is different. A.I. brings up so much uncertainty, and A.I. as a threat is something that we can't really distinguish. Is this a threat? Is it not a threat? We're hearing so many different messages about the threatening nature of A.I. and also how A.I. could save humanity, sometimes from the same people shifting their viewpoint quickly over time.

So, what do we do about this as consumers, as humans, as inhabitants of planet Earth? I think the first thing is just to name what we're feeling and why we're feeling it, which is we don't know if this is a threat. We don't know when it would come if it were to be a threat. And all of that uncertainty is actually useful information. Our anxiety is useful information about the nature of this particular challenge.

BROWN: I think so, too. Just putting a label on it and saying, OK, that's just me not being able to predict the future and having that certainty.

DR. FOOSE: Exactly.

BROWN: The brain does not like --

DR. FOOSE: Exactly.

BROWN: -- when we have that kind of uncertainty and that sort of feeling of lack of control. You know, you have this big existential concern, this threat, this anxiety, but what would you say to someone who's scared that A.I. could take away their job?

DR. FOOSE: I think we have to face the reality of that. So, again this anxiety is important information. And I think we want to listen to this kind of anxiety and say, what is it trying to tell us? It's trying to tell us we cannot predict the future, to your point, but that we should prepare for some of the possible predictive options that we've heard from a variety of different sources.

That we should start to think about how we A.I.-proof our future as both consumers but employees. In my case I have three daughters, so I'm thinking about how do I A.I.-proof their lives as a mother? How do I talk about how to prepare to be a useful, productive, employed human being in an uncertain future, and what might that look like?

BROWN: Yes, like what you would've recommended for your kids 10 years ago probably looks very different now in terms of what career path they should go down, right?

[11:35:00]

FOOSE: Could not be.

BROWN: I'm thinking about it too. My kids are, you know, little kids are still in elementary school. There is a lot of concern about how A.I. chatbots affect kids. CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta actually compared it to ultra-processed foods. And I'd love to get your take on this. Let's listen.

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DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: If you start to think about A.I. chatbots in the same way, they can be endlessly engaging, addictive to some extent. But more importantly, I think what a lot of people kept telling us was what are you not getting instead as a result of that A.I. chatbot conversation? You're not getting that human connection. You're not getting eye contact. You're not getting shared laughter.

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BROWN: So, how can we teach our kids to use A.I. responsibly?

DR. FOOSE: Oh, it's such a great question. I think that Dr. Gupta brings up a really great point about how satisfying it can be, how addictive it can be to engage with A.I. And I think we want to talk to our kids about that particular risk. We also want to talk to them about what A.I. does to our sense of reality, that it makes it more difficult for us to decipher what is real from what is unreal.

And we can be very satisfied by unreal things, visual things, animals jumping on trampolines, so that we start to actually lose a sense of the reality of the physical world we live in. That gets a little bit warped. And I think we're starting as parents to actually grieve the loss of things for our kids, but we never anticipated grieving reality in particular.

And then just that freedom to not be so sucked in by a thing that really knows how to predict and manipulate human behavior. I mean, it has a cheat sheet. It has a whole internet, has a whole of human knowledge to kind of decipher how to predict and manipulate us. Maybe I'm making that sound more dreadful and Machiavellian, but --

BROWN: On that note, even more anxiety. No, I'm just kidding. But no, it's true. It's like if you have social anxiety, for example, you might find more comfort in talking to an A.I. bot that, you know, isn't judging you in the same way you worry about people judging you and that kind of thing. And think about kids as they're going through different phases of life and the challenge that this could present. So, an ongoing conversation for sure. Dr. Tracy Foose, thank you so much.

DR. FOOSE: Thank you.

BROWN: And coming up, IVF issue. We're going to talk with a Florida couple who say that their fertility clinic used the wrong sperm. So, who is their baby's biological father?

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[11:40:00]

BROWN: Happening now, a couple in Jacksonville, Florida is suing a fertility clinic. They allege the facility used the wrong sperm sample during IVF treatment. Natalie and Joshua Strong say that their mix-up means their baby daughter has no biological relationship to Joshua.

The Strongs join us now, along with their attorney, Rob Marcereau. Good morning to all of you. Joshua and Natalie, thank you so much for coming on to talk about this. Joshua, first to you. Tell us more about how you figured out your daughter didn't have your DNA.

JOSHUA STRONG, SUING FERTILITY CLINIC: So, well, initially, after she was born, I guess within a day, they told us her blood type, and pretty much knew immediately that something was messed up at that point.

BROWN: And, Natalie, you had just given birth then. How did you feel when you realized this?

NATALIE STRONG, SUING FERTILITY CLINIC: Dread. I was worried and confused. I didn't know how that would be possible with all the stuff we've been through for the last few years.

BROWN: Tell us more about that, what you have been through over the last few years, Natalie.

N. STRONG: Well, we started in 2023. Our IVF process and having a biological child together. And after one failed attempt and multiple injections and hormones and medicine more, we finally got our beautiful baby girl. And it was the best day of my life. And once Josh told me that her blood type did not match ours, it kind of ruined the whole moment for me. I mean, I was still happy I had her and I love her more than anything in the world, but to hear that right after you have your baby is devastating.

BROWN: Yes. Joshua, how has it been for you?

J. STRONG: Well, you know, obviously I love her tremendously and I'm so happy that we have her, you know, but, you know, I said before, it's a struggle, you know, with a lot of different emotions. Sometimes you just don't know when to place them, you know?

[11:45:00]

So, I don't really know how to describe, you know, what the feeling is, you know.

BROWN: That's so understandable that you have that mix of emotions. And, Rob, I'm going to get to you in just a moment just on like the bigger picture of all of this, but I did want to follow up with you, Joshua and Natalie, just to ask, what is your, do you have a plan to tell your daughter about this when she's old enough? And if so, how do you explain that? Whichever one of you wants to take that on.

N. STRONG: We do plan on telling her. Eventually, I think she'll kind of find out, you know, different hair color. And it's hard to keep from your daughter, you know, when they go throughout school, they want to know their genetics, they want to know their history and their background. And we do eventually want to tell her when she's old enough to understand. And hopefully she knows that we're parents and we're enough for her. BROWN: Rob, to bring you in this conversation as their lawyer, y'all are suing this fertility clinic, what have you learned about how this could have happened?

ROB MARCEREAU, ATTORNEY FOR JOSHUA AND NATALLE STRONG: Well, the lawsuit has only just been filed and that's the whole point. We have been in touch and in contact with Brown Fertility for almost a year in an effort to try to reach a resolution, to try to get answers, and we've gotten nothing. And so, finally, we've had to take the extraordinary step of filing a lawsuit. And that's the whole point of this, to try to get those answers, to find out what happened, whose sperm was used, what happened to Joshua's sperm? How on earth could a horrific mistake like this occur? And up till now, Brown Fertility has said nothing.

BROWN: There is a spokesperson with this clinic who denied this claim to a Jacksonville news affiliate and said they wouldn't be commenting while the matter is in litigation. So, what I hear from you, Rob, is that you all don't have any answers even as to who's the biological father here, right?

MARCEREAU: Nothing, we've been told nothing, but now we'll have an opportunity to get those answers and to hold this fertility clinic accountable.

BROWN: So, Josh and Natalie, IVF treatments can sometimes yield multiple embryos. I wonder if you have any extra and whether you know whether the incorrect sperm sample was used or what's going on on that front? And if you plan to have, try for another child.

N. STRONG: We do have extra. This has put further family development on hold. I am getting older and I don't know how much longer, I can go through the process of that again. And we're really happy with our daughter we have now. We love her to death and we couldn't imagine not having her in our lives.

BROWN: Does the --

J. STRONG: Well, again, we have no idea who's sperm was used on the remaining three embryos. We don't have any clue.

BROWN: Do you have an interest, Josh, in finding out who the biological father is and even perhaps telling him about this?

J. STRONG: I have an interest in finding out what our baby's genetic history is for her health reasons. But further than that, no.

BROWN: What about your sperm, Josh? I mean, do you have any idea if it was used in this mix-up?

J. STRONG: So, that's one of the other questions that we're trying to get. You know, we have no idea if they still have it, if they've used it elsewhere, if there are other potential children somewhere. We have no idea.

BROWN: And have you moved your embryos away from this clinic? N. STRONG: I think our lawyers are in the process.

BROWN: Yes. Rob, go ahead if you want to take that on.

J. STRONG: Sure. They are currently still with the clinic. We are in the process of having those moved.

BROWN: OK. Let me just follow up with you, just big picture, Rob. So, your colleague, Benjamin Ikuta, says that this sort of mix-ups are happening more frequently. You're also representing a couple who received the wrong embryo transfer, that this child has no biological relationship at all to the parents. Do you have any idea why we're seeing these kinds of fertility mix-ups right now? Like why -- has there been an increase in your view?

[11:50:00]

MARCEREAU: Yes, there has. And there's a simple reason. Fertility medicine has become big business. For a lot of these clinics, it's no longer about the medicine, it's about making money and churning through as many patients as you can, almost like a fast-food restaurant. And when clinics are trying to maximize profits, they end up cutting corners. And that leads to understaffing, to unqualified personnel, lack of training, lack of quality control, and you end up having catastrophic results like this.

And we see it across the country. I handle cases in almost every state where incidents like this are happening. And a lot of them don't make the headlines, don't make the news, because clinics will end up settling them pre-lawsuit and then want confidentiality. So, there's a lot more out there than people even realize.

BROWN: Wow.

MARCEREAU: And I would just encourage anybody who is considering fertility to be very careful and really do your research and really do your homework and make sure you are with a clinic that's going to give you the best care and not treat you like just a number.

BROWN: Rob Marcero, Natalie, and Joshua Strong, thank you all so much for coming on and I wish you all the very, very best. Thank you, we'll be right back.

N. STRONG: Thank you.

J. STRONG: Thank you.

MARCEREAU: Thank you.

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[11:55:00]

BROWN: Welcome back. Well, it is not your average coffee table book. Astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson's "Lost in Space: 5,000 Facts for Navigating the Universe" should help us understand our world and beyond. Like, did you know that 100 trillion neutrinos pass through your body every second? I hope I pronounced that right. Well, I'll get corrected soon. Those are subatomic particles. And if you weigh 150 pounds here on Earth, you'd weigh 380 pounds on Jupiter, thanks to the gravity difference. So, let's strike a trip to Jupiter off the old bucket list.

And now, joining us is Neil deGrasse Tyson. Was that on your bucket list? I don't know, Neil.

NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON, AUTHOR, "LOST IN SPACE": Good idea there.

BROWN: So, this book, I'm so excited to gift this because I think it's also like a great gift for people who are really into space and all of this stuff. What made you decide to write this and how did you come up with these 5,000 facts?

TYSON: Yes. So, I looked at the end when we finished compiling it, I realized there were no more facts left in the universe.

BROWN: Nothing at all, you've already figured it all out.

TYSON: Every single one of them. So, the difference is -- of course you can Google facts, but what has happened here -- by the way, this is a collaboration with my StarTalk podcast and National Geographic books. And like I always say, National Geographic doesn't know ugly, OK? This book is striking. It's beautiful, it's beautiful to behold. And yes, it would sit on a coffee table, but once you pick it up, you don't want to leave it. And I think I'd say that even if I didn't write it.

So, the facts are shaped in a way that means something to you, that you'll never forget it. Like you learn that Saturn's average density is less than water. I could give you the numerics of that or I could tell you if there was a bathtub big enough, Saturn would float in the bathtub and all the other planets would sink. And when I was like, I knew that as a kid, so I was a geeky kid and I wanted a Saturn, instead of a rubber ducky, I wanted a rubber Saturn to play with in the tub.

BROWN: A rubber Saturn, OK.

TYSON: So, there's just thousands of these. And you said it'd be for the space enthusiasts, but I think it's for anyone because the goal here is to reignite your flames of curiosity that we all had as children. Looking at an image of Jupiter there, do you know Jupiter has blemishes bigger than Earth, OK? Just things, you know, the big red spot, you can fit several Earths across that.

There's a galaxy that, I think that's a sombrero galaxy. These are different images that are throughout the book all related to the content that is being displayed. These are two galaxies colliding. That's an interesting fact. We're on a collision course with our neighbor Andromeda. I have that on my calendar. That's going to happen in 5 billion years, so watch for that.

BROWN: Oh, my goodness. All right. We'll watch for that in 5 billion years from now, for sure. OK. So, I have to ask you, because it's just a reminder that we're just like a little speck in one galaxy out of billions of galaxies. Putting this book together, did it sharpen your belief in whether or not aliens exist?

TYSON: No. So, I'm waiting for just better evidence, really. There's a little section where we talk about aliens, and it's interesting that Hollywood aliens tend to always be humanoid. I'm a little disappointed by that because, as I've said, and it's in there, that humans and bananas share 25 percent identical genes.

So, if you're an alien coming from another planet that has no genes at all or DNA with nothing in common, it should look at least as different from humans as humans and bananas look from each other.

BROWN: That is a fair point.

TYSON: Yes, I think so.

BROWN: I've never thought about that before.

TYSON: Yes. No. I don't want bananas crawling out of a flying saucer, but that would be weird. But they should look, be imaginative, Hollywood. Come on now.

BROWN: It's something -- yes, something we can't even predict. All right. That's so fascinating. Cannot wait to dive through all of this. Neil deGrasse Tyson, thank you so much.

TYSON: Thank you.

BROWN: And thank you all for joining us this morning. You can keep up with us on social media, @wolfblitzer and @pamelabrowncnn. We'll see you back here tomorrow morning and every weekday morning at 10:00 Eastern for two hours. Inside Politics with our friend and colleague Dana Bash starts right now. Have a great day.

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[12:00:00]

NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON, AUTHOR, "LOST IN SPACE": Yeah, I think so. Yeah. No, I don't want bananas crawling out of a flying saucer, but that would be weird, but they should look -- be imaginative Hollywood --

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR, THE SITUATION ROOM: Something -- yeah, like something we can't even predict. All right. That's so fascinating. We cannot wait to dive through all of this. Neil deGrasse Tyson, thank you so much.

TYSON: Thank you.

BROWN: And thank you all for joining us this morning. You can keep up with us on social media @wolfblitzer and @pamelabrowncnn. We'll see you back here tomorrow morning and every weekday morning at 10 Eastern for two hours. Inside Politics with our friend and colleague Dana Bash starts right now. Have a great day.