Return to Transcripts main page

The Situation Room

New York A.G. on Cornell Rape Allegations, This is Now an Active Criminal Investigation; Gov. Kathy Hochul (D-NY) Says, Deeply Disturbed at Cornell Police's Original Investigation; One-on-One With Jane Doe's Attorney Amid Cornell Alleged Rape Case. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired October 02, 2026 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, demands for accountability. The Cornell rape investigation is now in the hands of the state's attorney general, as new reporting reveals one of the men allegedly involved claimed that he was a victim of sexual misconduct.

[10:00:05]

We'll talk with Jane Doe's attorney coming up.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: And there's more breaking news, September slowdown. Only 29,000 jobs added last month, falling far short of expectations. What it could mean for you.

Plus, a captain's courage. Hear from the pilot who was attacked while fighting off his co-pilot in midair.

Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer with Pamela Brown, and you're in The Situation Room.

We begin this hour with breaking news. The New York State attorney general, Letitia James, says her office has officially now opened a criminal investigation into the alleged 2024 gang rape at Cornell University. Governor Kathy Hochul announced last night Letitia James would be taking over as special prosecutor in the case.

And just moments ago, Governor Hochul said she will not let this case be swept under the rug.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. KATHY HOCHUL (D-NY): When the Tompkins County District Attorney announced that he was reopening the case, he pointed to Jane Doe's statement and said it did not establish that a crime had occurred. But new reporting raises serious questions about the information his office relied upon when it made that decision.

And that's why I believe this case demands a special prosecutor who will provide a fresh and thorough review of all the facts, including the information that has recently come to light.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLITZER: All this comes as new details have indeed surfaced, including what Jane Doe told campus police at the time, raising more serious questions about the university's initial investigation.

CNN has obtained images of a Snapchat group chat exchanged during the as- alleged assault, and they show a picture of Jane Doe in a room at the fraternity house. A source close to the case tells CNN the conversation taking place on the app, which deletes messages, suggests other photos or videos might have been recovered had there been more of a thorough criminal investigation.

And earlier this week, The New York Times obtained more than one thousand documents detailing the university's investigation. The Times reports that according to those records, the men involved in the alleged gang rape denied any wrongdoing. Four reportedly acknowledged having sexual contact with the woman, but said it had been consensual, while the others denied participating in sexual encounter continues.

Several students spoke up at a public hearing last night, severely criticizing Cornell's handling of the alleged assault. Here's what one student had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Survivors need to know that when they come forward with their story, somebody will listen and the broader institution will act upon it.

Through this event, we have witnessed the complete opposite. We have seen a total lack of agency and accountability in especially the way our Title IX office handles sexual assault cases.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: CNN Correspondent Gloria Pazmino was at this news conference with the New York governor and the attorney general. So, Gloria, what are the big takeaways from your perspective?

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the governor and the state attorney general not mincing any words when speaking about this case, the governor calling it disturbing, and the state attorney general, Letitia James, officially a criminal investigation. At the heart of all of this, according to the governor, is the fact that there has been so much conflicting information that's come out to the light in the past few days, including the fact that Jane Doe made statements to police in which she specifically said she believed she had been raped.

We know that those statements appear to have been left out of a statement that was then condensed and provided to the district attorney, which was the basis of his reasoning for not pursuing criminal charges back in 2024. The governor is saying that she has lost faith in the fact that this attorney -- this district attorney, I should say, could conduct this criminal investigation in a way that will reveal the truth and answers that the public is demanding. Also significant development in the last few minutes, Wolf, Governor Hochul -- legislation in New York, which would close what -- to as the sexual assault loophole. This is a significant development because this law has been in the works in New York State for years, and they have been unable to pass it.

[10:05:07]

So, this expression of the support from the governor is significant. She's throwing her support, saying she wants to see this law changed.

And what the law would address would be the question of consent. That is going to be a central part of this investigation. Did Jane Doe consent? Was she able to provide consent in this incident back in October 2024?

Also significantly, Wolf, I asked the governor whether she believed that Cornell University president should resign at this stage. She said that she did not think she had enough information just yet, but she has spoken with the university president and told them that she wanted the university to hire an outside counsel to conduct an investigation into how they handled this.

So, she stopped short of saying that the president of the university should resign, same for the district attorney. She also said she did not have information to call for that just yet. And also significantly, State Attorney General Letitia James saying she's launching this investigation, but as of today, she has not yet directly spoken with the Tompkins district attorney, Matthew Van Houten, who is the one who made the original decision not to bring criminal charges. Wolf?

BLITZER: Gloria, what else are we learning from that New York Times reporting about what the men involved said at the time?

PAZMINO: Well, we have been poring over some of these documents that we have been able to obtain so far. The New York Times has additional documents. And part of what we have been able to see is some of what the men said during this Title IX investigation.

Remember, Title IX is supposed to be a confidential proceeding. But some of these documents have come out publicly, and you can see that there are varying versions from all of the students involved. Different levels of involvement, different versions of what they say went on. They often contradict themselves.

There are some of the students that have been accused that said to the Title IX investigators, you know, I was only in the room for a few minutes. I wish I had done something to stop what was going on. I didn't realize what was going on. And I think part of what both the governor and the attorney general discussed today is that there is clearly something wrong within that Title IX process.

The governor also spoke about that, the fact that this has not been transparent. And part of that is because federal laws prohibit some of the information to be released to the public, privacy laws. But she said that the Title IX process in this specific case appeared to not have gone in the way that it is intended to go on.

BLITZER: Indeed, lots of new information emerging. Gloria Pazmino, thank you very, very much. Pamela?

BROWN: All right. Now we continue our coverage with a Situation Room special report. Jane Doe's attorney, Thomas Giuffra, joins us live. Thomas, thank you for being here.

You have been listening to that press conference with New York Governor Kathy Hochul and Attorney General Letitia James to discuss the appointment of a special prosecutor to your client's case. Tell me more about what your reaction is to what you heard there, and also the fact the governor wants to change that, that New York law that a lot of people say is a loophole.

THOMAS GIUFFRA, ATTORNEY FOR JANE DOE: Well, I think it's been an incredibly positive development. I was completely disappointed by the district attorney's reaction following this case. I think he changed his story a lot of times. He tried to cover, save face.

And, frankly, I was planning on writing a letter to the governor myself today requesting that she appoint a special prosecutor, and she saved me having to do that. And I was thrilled that she did because she recognized clearly that something was going on up in Ithaca, New York, that was inappropriate, either with the university police, with the district attorney's office.

And then she took the steps on her own, and that's to her credit, and I'm happy that she did that to remedy that. And she's looking out for the people of the state of New York, and that's wonderful. And I'm appreciative of Letitia James also getting involved because I think somebody outside of Tompkins County needs to be looking into this case.

I mean, one of the things that struck me is there's not much in Tompkins County other than Cornell. And I think there was a lot of protection of the university and its reputation. And I don't like the word cover-up, but it feels like a cover-up was going on.

BROWN: You say you feel like there was a cover-up going on.

[10:10:00]

From what we have gathered, the D.A.- has said he did not receive information from the police department where your client, according to documents we've obtained, said she believes she was 100 percent raped. What is your reaction to that?

GIUFFRA: I was surprised. And the other problem with that was the Cornell Police said, well, we did provide it to the district attorney. So, the question is who's telling the truth? Are the Cornell Police lying or is the district attorney lying? Somebody is. Because in that statement, which I couldn't get because it was police investigation materials, she clearly said, I was 100 percent raped. She clearly says she was hit and there was violence utilized. All that was sanitized out of the six-page police report. But in any event, I would've expected the full report, everything that happened, to go to the D.A., and that either happened or it didn't happen. I don't know the answer to that, but it's very odd to me what went on, very odd.

BROWN: I have many more questions for you, but I just first want to take a moment to pause. It's been quite a week. There has been so much attention on this case. How is your client doing right now?

GIUFFRA: She's not doing well. She's under siege on social media where people are trying to identify her. Some false court postings attempting to identify her and other women were posted. Various women have been identified as Jane Doe incorrectly. That's been really difficult, and she's gone through a lot. And I've been very disappointed about how I see people, some people, a minority clearly, to identify her, shame her, and things like that.

But the one thing that's come out of this that I feel has been very positive is the overwhelming support. I think I've received, at this point, 300 to 500 emails of support for Jane Doe, and I'm collecting them for her, and I'm sending them to her. And that's been the real positive, the overwhelming support of people all over the world. And I've gotten emails from people in South America. I've gotten people -- emails from people in Europe, have really helped to know that she's not alone. Because throughout this process, she felt like she was alone.

BROWN: Well, that's a common feeling. And, in fact, later on in the show, we have someone who works for RAINN, which is the network to help sexual assault survivors, and they say they have seen a huge increase in calls this week from others who believe that they were sexually assaulted in the wake of your civil suit.

Going back to this case, have you heard anything about a grand jury being convened? What's the latest on that?

GIUFFRA: Well, I heard from the district attorney in Tompkins County shortly after the lawsuit was filed, saying he wanted Jane Doe to testify before a grand jury in the month of October. And I paused when I heard that because, look, I'm an experienced trial lawyer. I've tried well over 150 cases in my life. I couldn't prepare a case in a month and do a, a good job in presenting it.

So, that raised a question in my mind. And then after I had this conversation with, well, email this was, to cooperate, he goes out and files his press release basically throwing my client under the bus. So, I had a real issue with this district attorney.

BROWN: You say he was throwing your client under the bus because he framed it as everything was consensual, correct? Is that what you mean by that?

GIUFFRA: Yes.

BROWN: Okay. GIUFFRA: That's exactly what I mean by that.

BROWN: Would your client be willing to go in front of a grand jury to testify?

GIUFFRA: I'm sorry?

BROWN: Would your client be willing to go in front of a grand jury to testify? My client absolutely wants justice in this case, both civilly and criminally. She will work with Letitia James, do whatever Letitia James needs from her to cooperate with her investigators, she wants justice, and she's happy that somebody who shares that desire is now involved in the prosecution.

BROWN: The New York Times is reporting that according to documents from the university's initial Title IX investigation, the men involved denied any wrongdoing. Four of the men reportedly acknowledged having sexual contact with your client, but said the interactions were consensual, while others denied participating in any sexual encounters.

Lawyers for two of the men have since issued statements denying any wrongdoing. I want to give you an opportunity to respond to that.

GIUFFRA: Well, I've handled these cases for 30 years, and I've handled a case against Harvey Weinstein. I've handled cases against Sean Combs. I've handled cases against Dr. Hayden. I've handled at least 25 cases against Darius Paduk. None of those guys have ever said, I raped somebody, I did something inappropriate. I've handled hundreds of these cases.

There's one of two responses, A, didn't happen, or, B, it was consensual. That's the way it always is. It's never C, I raped somebody.

[10:15:01]

So, this is par for the course what I've heard throughout my career. I would expect nothing different.

BROWN: In documents we obtained, Jane Doe told police that she did engage in consensual sexual activity in the beginning of the night, and then it evolved into non-consensual sexual activity. At what point in the evening did it cross into non-consensual for her?

GIUFFRA: I don't think it was ever consensual. She showed up at the Chi Phi house heavily intoxicated. There was testimony not just from the people involved in the assault, but there was a lot of testimony from people who were around that time saw her that day. And by all accounts, she was completely, completely intoxicated. She couldn't consent to anything.

So, I don't think she ever consented, and was incapable of consenting because of the level of intoxication, and the fact that she was plied with drugs, she couldn't consent to anything. BROWN: So, but just to be clear, because in the police documents that we obtained, she did say that she was pretty okay with the initial threesome that she had. She had a crush on one of the men and wanted to date him. When she went into the fraternity house, she had been drinking. I believe she said she was at a five, six out of ten, and then there was drug use after that.

So, what would you say to the defendant's lawyers who may argue that how would their client have known when that line was crossed into non- consensual? How do you respond to that?

GIUFFRA: I think the testimony from people who were not Jane Doe, who were there at that time, said she was much more than a six, and a six is pretty intoxicated in my view of the world. Testimony was she was slurring her words even before she got to the Chi Phi house, that she was stumbling around.

I think most people, particularly a bunch of college kids, a bunch of frat boys, know when somebody's intoxicated. You can tell if somebody's drunk by the manner in which they speak, the manner in which they present themselves. For them to claim, oh, well, there's some bright line, look, I've been on this planet for half a decade. I can know if somebody's intoxicated.

BROWN: I know you're familiar with New York law. It's very specific. This is what the governor said she wants to change. But it says that sexual abuse can be charged when, quote, the other person is incapable of consent by reason of being physically helpless. Did your client feel physically helpless the entire night, or was there a certain point where that changed into physical helplessness? Just help us better understand your view of this.

GIUFFRA: Well, the problem with laws are they're not very clear. Logically, you would think if somebody is heavily intoxicated, on drugs, and you rape them, it's a rape because they can't consent. But be that as it may, I think that she -- there was testimony that she couldn't escape. There's -- I believe, one of the things she said is she felt like she was surrounded by a pack of lions, and they kept grabbing her and doing things to her. I mean, that's being trapped. That's physically helpless. You have five grown men and one woman, and surrounded, and forcing themselves on her. That's physically helpless in my mind.

BROWN: In that same reporting from the Times I mentioned, I want to get your -- an opportunity for you to respond to this. One of the men accused told the Title IX investigators that he was a, quote, victim of sexual misconduct because your client gave him oral sex when he was too incapacitated to consent. What do you say to that that one of the defendants in your suit is saying he was actually the victim in this scenario?

GIUFFRA: I think it's ridiculous, is what I think. It's -- he's -- okay, he'll be the first person in the planet to make that claim, that some woman forced himself on -- well, I shouldn't say that, because it does happen. But it's just under the circumstances. It's so self-serving that he is saying that. It's just ludicrous. I don't credit it at all. And then he's there with his frat fraternity brothers, having oral sex, and all these other people are doing various things, and, oh, he was not consenting. It's absurd.

BROWN: CNN has obtained images of a group chat from that night that included a photo of your client at the fraternity house the night of the alleged assault. Can you shed any more light on any of the photos taken of your client or videos that night, and what else might have been in that chat?

GIUFFRA: Well, what I can tell you is this. That Snapchat went out to -- I believe there's over 50 members of this fraternity. It was leaked to Ms. Doe. And from what I understand, there are multiple comments. We only have the two pages. But one thing we do know is there was a photograph taken that appears to have been taken in the Chi Phi house.

That leads me to believe there were other photographs available. That leads me also to believe that there are videos available.

[10:20:01]

Are they available today? No, because I think that due to the lack of investigation, anything like that is long gone into the atmosphere and we'll never see it. And that was the problem with the lack of investigation. If they had gone in, grabbed these phones, pulled the data, they could have found stuff. They could have found evidence. That's the point of doing an investigation. Now, that evidence is stale.

BROWN: Have you been in contact with Snapchat to try to get more evidence?

GIUFFRA: Well, I have not. That's very difficult to get. It's difficult to get phone records. It's difficult to get records of texts. It's very challenging how that works. So, I'm hoping that with Letitia James' investigation, she'll be able to get it because she'll have a lot more authority than Tom Giuffra, the lawyer in New York City.

BROWN: I want to give you an opportunity to respond to sort of the timeline here that's been laid out publicly. There were -- it was a few weeks after the alleged assaults happened that she went to police. In the interim, our understanding is from our reporting, is that she had expressed interest in going back to a, to that fraternity for a party, and she was told not to go. And she also went to a healthcare provider and told them that she had contracted a UTI in a traumatic way.

Can you share more about this experience and just shed more light on that timeline and what was her evolution of understanding of what she believed was sexual assault?

GIUFFRA: Well, I think what -- and your next witness can -- your next guest can probably explain it better than I can. But first thing with anybody who's an abuse survivor is denial. Nobody wants to be labeled with the idea of they were a victim of a sexual assault. It's just not the way the human mind works.

Now, that's phase one, and she was in denial about it. And then phase two, she's shamed. How did I let this happen to me? And then what she started to do is to record the messages with one of these guys to try to get information, and she did get information because he apologized to her, said that things got out of hand.

And then in the interim, she's trying to get help from somebody who's outside of this group of college students, and she goes to the Cornell Health. And this is failure one post-assault. She complains that there's -- she got a UTI from a traumatic event. Now, you don't get UTIs from traumatic event. She was going for STD testing.

Now, that person who she met with at Cornell Health, instead of doing what's normally done, which is send her to get a rape kit, which they could not do at Cornell Health. And, remember, this is two days after the assault. There was still DNA available to be found. Do a physical exam, document the injuries. Based on her testimony in the Title IX, there were physical injuries. They could've been documented. They should've been documented.

And, three, they should've sent her to, had her speak with somebody who knows how to speak to people who have been victims of sexual assault to document what happened. That should've been done. None of it was done. All that was done at Cornell Health was they said, you should go talk to somebody. That's it. That was failure one.

And then following this, she came into the realization that, look, I was raped. I know I was raped, and I have to own it, accept it. And then she cooperated with the police.

BROWN: All right. And before we go, I just want to read what Cornell University said in its most recent statement. And it said that, we will continue to examine and strengthen our policies to ensure we are doing all we can to foster a culture where sexual misconduct is never tolerated, those who come forward are supported, and individuals found responsible through our processes are held accountable.

Very quickly, Thomas, I just want to get your response to that. Are you satisfied with how the university is responding now in this moment? What's your reaction?

GIUFFRA: Well, I think they have to respond in, in a manner now because they've gotten such bad press about this, and now they're taking steps. But the interesting thing that I've had is I've had a lot of interaction, and people have reached out to me where they've been victims of sexual assault, and several at Cornell University.

So, I don't know what's going on with the culture up there. I think it needs to be looked at. I think that if they're going to be serious about it, they should. I mean, there's a statistic out there, a report, that 30 percent of all Cornell undergrads have been subjected to unwanted sexual conduct. I mean, that is a shocking number for me. Where I went to school, I would've been shocked if it was anywhere near that. So, I think there's a problem up in Ithaca. I think there's a lot of problems up in Ithaca, and maybe this will shed some light on it, and it can be a better place. Look, Cornell University is an excellent institution, but the people who were involved in this crime were not excellent people, and the people who were handling it didn't handle it properly.

But that doesn't take away that it's a good school. I have family members who went there. But it can be improved. We can always improve, and, hopefully, this will make some difference so this doesn't happen to another woman at any university.

[10:25:05]

BROWN: All right. Thank you so much, Thomas Giuffra, for all of your time, and I'm really sorry your client is going through so much with harassment online. That's just completely uncalled for. Thank you.

GIUFFRA: It's horrible. It's really horrible. Thank you.

BROWN: Well, if you or anyone you know is struggling after a sexual assault, the National Sexual Assault Hotline is available 24/7 to help. The number is 1-800-656-HOPE. There are also resources at RAINN.org. Wolf?

BLITZER: And still ahead, a CNN exclusive, never-before-seen video of Luigi Mangione's arrest. You'll see it here. Stand by.

And then there's more breaking news. The latest jobs report falls far short of expectations as unemployment in the United States rises. What this means for the economy as a whole.

Lots going on. You're in The Situation Room.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:30:00]

BLITZER: Breaking news, the job market here in the United States appears to be cooling off.