Return to Transcripts main page

The Situation Room

NY AG: "Active Criminal Investigation" into Cornell Case; NY Gov. Taps Atty. Gen. James as Special Prosecutor in Cornell Case; Adults Cutting Off Ties to their Parents. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired October 02, 2026 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:00]

MEGAN CUTTER, CHIEF OF VICTIM SERVICES, RAINN: For the first time that maybe their experience is considered rape or considered sexual assault. They're hearing Jane Doe's story and we've also got folks who have are further along in their healing journey, but all of this coverage is making them kind of consider their own experience and they're experiencing, you know shame or self-blame and there's a lot of kind of challenge around that as well. So, we want to be here to support folks in whatever moment that they reach the hotline at.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: And those that are calling can you give us any kind of better understanding of are these women who are in college after college?

CUTTER: Lots of women who are in college now or who are recent graduates. I think part of what is, you know, so stark with this story is so many of us can picture ourselves in a similar situation to Jane Doe or our friends or our kids. And so, people are really seeing themselves in this story in a way that maybe with higher profile, you know, coverage or individuals who have more sort of positions of power they don't see themselves in those stories in the same way. Whereas with this it feels really connected to the experiences of lots of women.

BROWN: I wonder what you think about this announcement this morning from the New York governor that she supports closing this so-called loophole in the state sexual assault law which excludes victims who willfully become intoxicated. Cornell University is also expressing support for this change. How big of an impact do you think this could have if it's changed?

CUTTER: I think this would be so significant. This is something that RAINN is in support of as well, and we're working with legislators in New York. For -- when we think about consent, we think about a mutual agreement between people that is achieved through someone's own voluntary choice. And if someone is intoxicated, asleep, under some kind of duress or pressure or manipulation, they can't freely give consent. And so, it's a real concern to have that loophole and we would like to see it closed.

BROWN: Can you just give us the broader view, like how many states have a loophole similar to that? Because I know it's a real patchwork, right? CUTTER: Yes, you know, laws are really different across states and people, you know, are experiencing all kinds of different things. And it's a real surprise, at least for me even having been in this field for so long, where you would think that laws would be in support of survivors and their needs and what they've gone through. But unfortunately, there are lots of situations like this where laws seem to favor the perpetrator or they make it more difficult for the victim to come forward and to speak out.

BROWN: Let's talk a little bit more about consent. I interviewed Jane Doe's lawyer earlier today, and I brought up what was in the initial police documents that she said at the beginning of the night, she consented to sexual activity. And then as the night went on, it evolved into non-consensual sexual activity. And this is how he responded to that. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

THOMAS GIUFFRA, ATTORNEY FOR JANE DOE: With anybody who's an abuse survivor, it's denial. Nobody wants to be labeled with the idea of they were a victim of a sexual assault. It's just not the way the human mind works. Now, that's phase one. And she was in denial about it. And then phase two, she shamed, how did I let this happen to me? And then what she started to do is to record the messages with one of these guys to try to get information. And she did get information because he apologized to her, said that things got out of hand. And then in the interim, she's trying to get help from somebody who's outside of this group of college students. And she goes to the Cornell Health. And this is failure one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And he says that in his view, she didn't consent to anything because when she walked into the house, she had been drinking earlier in the night. So, tell us more about that evolution from shame to acceptance.

CUTTER: This is really very common for survivors of sexual violence and for survivors of lots of forms of trauma. You know, in those initial moments, hours, days after an assault, survivors are trying to kind of take their own experience and understand how to describe it, conceptualize what happened. And that can go through many, many different phases. And the way that trauma impacts our brains can make it difficult to recall how things happened or the order in which they happened. And that's all really normal.

Then we've also got this situation at a college, at a university where someone is, you know, maybe considered some of these perpetrators, her friends, her peers. And so, also trying to reconcile the experience of all of this harm done with someone who you thought was your friend. And so, that can bring a lot of really complicated emotions and a lot of shame and self-blame that the National Sexual Assault Hotline and at RAINN, we really work to help folks kind of move through that to deciding, you know, what is it that how would they want to name their own experience? What kind of support do they need? And we're seeing this a lot, you know, every day on the hotline, but particularly this week, people coming forward and saying this happened. My friend did this to me. I thought he was my friend. Now, I'm wondering more about -- you know, I didn't consent the whole time or I didn't feel I could say no. And it's really layered and complicated and can also be very different for each individual and each situation.

[11:35:00]

BROWN: Yes, and we should note the defendants in this case all deny any wrongdoing with sexual assault. But just broadly speaking, how often is it that a rape happens with someone that you know?

CUTTER: So, for college students in particular, 60 percent of sexual assaults that women report that are of that college age are actually perpetrated by someone they know, so it's very common. And it's often a situation where the person maybe enters into a party or a date and they're consenting to that initial engagement or conversation or even sexual activity. And as things start to change, they absolutely have the right to speak up and to say, no, I'm not OK with this next activity or this next action.

And also, if they cannot speak up, if they are, you know, too intoxicated, if they are not awake, then that's not consent and we need to be very clear on that.

BROWN: Really quickly on that point, how common is that scenario where it starts off consensual and then becomes non-consensual in the survivor's view?

CUTTER: This is something we hear about all the time on the National Sexual Assault Hotline where they had agreed to one type of activity or they agreed to, you know, one set of circumstances and at every sort of juncture in some kind of sexual engagement with another person, we should be talking to our partners and saying, hey, is this OK? Is this all right? Consent should be freely given and we should continuously be checking in to make sure that everyone is on the same page and if they're not.

BROWN: But if both parties are drinking, how realistic is that? I mean -- you know.

CUTTER: Sure. You know, I think that that's part of why we have to have these conversations to prepare people ahead of an environment where there's lots of alcohol or drugs or, you know, lots of the things that we see on a college campus. I think we've got to get people the knowledge and the information in advance to know how to have those conversations and also to know how to identify when a situation is not consensual anymore.

BROWN: All right. Megan Cutter, thank you so much. We really appreciate it.

CUTTER: Thank you. BROWN: And just a note to everyone, as we've been saying, the National Sexual Assault Hotline is available 24/7 to help. The number is 1-800-656-HOPE and there are also resources at rainn.org. More news when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:40:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: New this morning, the New York Governor Kathy Hochul said the state attorney general, Letitia James, will be taking over a special prosecutor in the case alleging sexual assault at Cornell University back in 2024. The incident sparked outrage and demands for accountability, bringing sexual assault on college campuses back into the spotlight.

Joining us now is CNN political commentator Michael Smerconish. He's the host of CNN Smerconish, also of the Michael Smerconish program on SiriusXM. Michael, thanks so much for joining us. First of all, what are you hearing from your listeners, and there are so many out there, about how this Cornell University investigation is being handled?

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN ANCHOR AND CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: First, universal disgust with the conduct, the horrid conduct, the Snapchat reference in particular. People are just, their stomachs are turned over what went on here. Having said that, whether any of this is able to be criminally prosecuted and at this stage, I have my doubts, and I think so too do a lot of people who are following this case very carefully.

You know, two things can be true at the same time, that it was mishandled initially, but that the case was fatally flawed, fatally flawed by inconsistencies in her account, and by the peculiarities of New York law, making it very difficult for an intoxicated person to say that they didn't consent. So, horrible case, disgusting facts, but legally, that's a separate question.

BLITZER: On another sensitive issue, we just got the new jobs numbers for the month of September, Michael. The U.S. added jobs, but the number was far below expectations. This is the last jobs report before the midterm elections on November 3rd. How will this have an impact, do you think, on voters?

SMERCONISH: I think it's just more of the narrative that is the context in which the midterm election is being waged. The administration needed better, Republicans needed better, they needed some level of a game changer, and they didn't get it. And what I remind people, Wolf, is that we're now less than five weeks away, I say from the conclusion, I no longer say, oh, election day is coming in November, because a lot of people are already voting, and by this weekend, even more people will be voting, and next week. So, it's like game on already, not what's going to happen in a month. BLITZER: As far as the elections are concerned, is it still, as James Carville used to say, the economy's stupid?

SMERCONISH: I think that it's the economy, and it's just a lot of other factors that are driving the economy. I can't separate the situation, the unresolved situation in Iran from the economy, because I think it's had a direct impact on gas prices. And, you know, those gas prices, we can have our debates about different aspects of the economy. What does the jobs number even mean? I don't know.

I'll tell you what I know, Wolf, I know that driving to my studio here today, I passed three gas stations, and all of them had the price of gas posted. It's like a constant reminder. That's the one most important factor, I think, of the economy today.

BLITZER: I think that's a good point. There's a proposal out there on the California November ballot that would impose a one-time 5 percent wealth tax on the richest Californians, whose net worth exceeds $1 billion. This measure, known as Proposition 40, would also require for most of this tax revenue to be spent on health care. How are your listeners, first of all, reacting to extra taxes for billionaires?

[11:45:00]

SMERCONISH: I'm so glad you asked, because I think it was two days ago, Gabriel Zucman was a guest on my radio program on SiriusXM. He's the one who's written this book. It's more like a pamphlet, but getting a lot of attention. It's time to tax billionaires. And he came and he made the case to my radio audience and said, look, they don't pay income taxes the way everyone else does, and generational wealth can get passed on with very little tax consequence. There's much more to it.

But we then had a poll question, unscientific, but we asked, should billionaires be taxed based on wealth, not income? It carried the day. More than a majority said yes.

BLITZER: Interesting. All right. Michael Smerconish, as usual, thanks very much. And Michael's live every Saturday morning, 9:00 a.m. Eastern, right here on CNN. I recommend it highly.

BROWN: All right. Wolf, coming up, we're going to talk about political estrangement. We're going to talk with two mothers who now no longer have ties with their children. And we want to better understand why this trend is happening. We'll discuss after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: A growing trend is emerging that could shift the nature of family dynamics in our country. More and more millennial and Gen Z adults are becoming estranged, having minimal contact or no contact with their parents. While specific numbers are hard to come by, data from a Cornell researcher published in 2020 shows that at least 10 percent of U.S. adults have cut ties with a parent or child.

[11:50:00]

And according to the Wall Street Journal, many experts believe estrangements between adult children and their parents are becoming an epidemic much like divorce from the 1970s. Here to help us understand this trend are Laura Wellington, known on social media as Doormat Mom, and licensed clinical social worker Kate Smiley. Both are parents estranged from their children. Thank you for coming on to talk about this.

Laura, I want to start with you. What led to your daughter's decision of going no contact with you? Tell us about what happened.

LAURA WELLINGTON, ESTRANGED PARENT AND "DOORMAT MOM" ON SOCIAL MEDIA: Well, that's a question for me too, I guess. It ended up being a situation over her wedding where she decided quite out of the blue that I was not allowed to go to her wedding. And when she told me, I had no idea why she came to that decision. Like I said, it just came right out of the blue. So, from that point on, one or two moments afterwards of us engaging, it ended up being where we ended up estranged.

BROWN: So, you no longer talk at all?

WELLINGTON: No, we haven't spoken in two years. In two years.

BROWN: We're going to circle back to that in just a moment. But, Kate, to bring you in, you're interesting because you are an estranged parent and you're also a therapist. So, help us understand why someone would cut ties with a family member. Is this a generational disconnect? What is the end goal here? What's going on in your view?

KATE SMILEY, ESTRANGED PARENT AND LICENSED CLINICAL SOCIAL WORKER: I think there is a generational disconnect. There's a real issue kind of teasing apart discomfort versus threat. And I think we've gotten to a point in our world right now where it's more like therapeutic individualism, where we're getting away from the family system approach and we're looking more at the individual.

And I am a trauma therapist and I have clients that have major trauma that can't even sit through EMDR and I see it. But I also think we really have to be careful as therapists not to start pathologizing parental flaws or the system. You know, I hear a lot about the narcissistic parent or it's unsafe or it's traumatic because I also think it takes away from the people that are really going through this trauma. I work with all different types of people.

And coming from a parent that's going through this, this type of loss, this type of grief is overwhelming. And I really want to have a voice for all the mamas, papas, grandparents who are going through this, struggling every day to get out of bed. It's wreaking havoc on our nervous system every day.

BROWN: It must feel like grief -- I mean, essentially, you've lost your child, right? Having no contact with them at all. Laura, you decided to go public with your daughter's estrangement. What has the reaction been from people in your personal community to that?

WELLINGTON: It's been enormous. I have millions of parents that are in contact with me every day who have gone through this. And I think it's just more than focused on, I think there's a perfect storm happening. I think that we live in a society where disagreement is punished. I think we have therapy culture that is truly, truly becoming the gods of our society and therapy language becoming their language. I think we have a very me-centric generations right now where the me trumps the we. You can't keep a society going if we doesn't come first.

I think, you know, terms like abuse and neglect are ever-changing and ever-inclusive. You know, I think that social media plugs all that. And they get to -- you know, they get to have a whole new family through social media, all living in the same bubble. And I think that's all happening. So, it's not just one thing, it's a perfect storm.

BROWN: So, Kate, back to you on that note. I'm wondering after this happened to you what kind of introspection you did, just to better understand how did this happen?

[11:55:00]

And in a situation like this, when a parent disagrees with their child in their decision in this estrangement, is there any chance of reconciliation? What would that look like?

SMILEY: That is -- oh, Pamela. Yes, loaded questions.

BROWN: And we've got to run soon. I'm so sorry.

SMILEY: No, it's OK. You know, it's problematic. I am very -- my case is unique as I'm a widow. I lost my darling, beautiful husband nine years ago, which was kind of the fracture point for, you know, losing my children. And I want to make this very clear. This is what we call ambiguous grief, meaning that the person is still around, unlike my husband where I had formal closure on it. My two beautiful daughters are still around, yet they're choosing not to connect with me.

And so, we as parents, it's like losing your children in a grocery store and you're running around, running around, panic, panic, panic, trying to find them. Once you find them, it's like, but we live with that every single day. And ultimately, we as parents are working so hard to learn where did we go wrong? You know, what can we do?

And the big issue, the biggest issue is that even if we do reconcile, it's never going to be the same. It's going to be this new normal. And that scares a lot of parents. It's like, am I going to be walking on eggshells? What if I say something wrong and I lose them again? And it's all the losses -- those little losses we have, the moments of time. And the most specific moments that really kill me in a lot of parents is the everyday connection. I was so close with my girls. And it's texting each other, sending funny memes to each other, connecting. And we don't have that. That everyday chat, it's a killer.

BROWN: All right. Kate and Laura, thank you both for coming on. A really important discussion here. Thank you so much.

SMILEY: Thank you, Pamela. BLITZER: Very important discussion indeed. Good work. Thanks very much to our viewers for joining us. We'll see you back here Monday morning, 10:00 a.m. Eastern, Inside Politics with Dana Bash starts after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:00:00]