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The Situation Room

AI Trade-Offs?; Justice Samuel Alito Considering Retirement?; Dangers of Ketamine and Kratom?; U.S. Removes Bombers From U.K. Base. Aired 10:30a-11a ET

Aired October 05, 2026 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:01]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: I also want to ask you about the rumors surrounding conservative Justice Alito and the fact that he might retire. He addressed those recently. What did he say?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: He did indeed.

He said that he had potentially thought about retiring last term, and it's something that he has to keep reassessing. Here's a little bit more of Justice Alito speaking to CBS News' Jan Crawford Greenburg.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAMUEL ALITO, U.S. SUPREME COURT ASSOCIATE JUSTICE: I thought about it. And I will continue...

JAN CRAWFORD, CBS NEWS CHIEF LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: You did? You considered it?

ALITO: Well, it's a something I think that somebody at my age has to think about every term. But I thought that I could still make a valuable contribution, which is why I became a justice and a judge in the first place. So that was basically it.

CRAWFORD: So you will be kind of reconsidering this probably every year, rethinking it?

ALITO: Yes, I think I have to.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POLANTZ: Quite a pressing question for Justice Samuel Alito as we near the second half of this Trump presidency. But one thing to know, he's not going to be asked to rule today on this energy or climate change case. He has recused from this case, and so there are only eight justices on the bench hearing this major case this morning -- Pamela.

BROWN: All right, Katelyn Polantz, thank you so much -- Wolf.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Also happening now: The U.S. made the sudden move to remove all of its long-range B-1 bombers from a British air force base following an unspecified new threat, that according to U.S. officials.

The bombers had been used to conduct strikes on Iran in the early days of the war. And this comes after five men were arrested right near the base in the U.K. just over a week ago or so on suspicion of planning a terror attack.

The sixth person was arrested recently, a 25-year-old Iranian British dual citizen.

Joining us now is retired U.S. Army General Wesley Clark. He's the former NATO supreme allied commander.

General Clark, thanks so much for joining us.

The threat is unspecified, but the fact that the U.S. moved so quickly, what does that tell you?

GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: It tells me we had good intelligence, and it's going to be something that MI5, which is excellent in the U.K., didn't feel comfortable in preventing, so maybe something like a drone attack, maybe something like what the Ukrainians did with Operation Spider, where the drones are brought in by pieces.

They're assembled. They're put into trucks somewhere several miles from the airfield, and make a coordinated attack. So it sounds to me like something like that that would have caused us to so quickly withdraw those. So...

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: If Iran, General, is in fact behind some kind of potential terror plot, did they accomplish their goal without having to do any actual damage by forcing the U.S. in effect to remove those bombers? Those planes are now much further away from potential Iranian targets.

CLARK: Well, Wolf, maybe they did for a day, but in war and in this conflict, there's an action-reaction-counteraction cycle. So now we realize how vulnerable all of the NATO bases are in Europe.

If they don't have the means to protect against something like series of drone attacks from something like an Operation Spider that the Ukrainians ran, then we have got to get that in place right away. So, in that regard, we got our aircraft out of there, we didn't take any losses. And we made a real impact on us, and I'm sure we're going to take rapid action to correct this.

It can be corrected fairly rapidly.

BLITZER: General, turning now to Yemen's government, backed by Saudi Arabia, as we all know, saying it is launching a major military offensive against the Iran-backed Houthis, is there a growing concern inside Saudi Arabia right now over recent Houthi attacks?

CLARK: Wolf, yes, of course there is. And we have this growing concern here in the United States as well and all through Europe because this threatens the other access to the Gulf of Oman and the Arabian Sea, access through the Bab al-Mandab.

And so, yes, we don't want Yemen to fall to the Houthis. So we should welcome this attack by the government backed by Saudi Arabia.

BLITZER: All right, General Wesley Clark, as usual, thank you very much for joining us.

CLARK: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Pamela.

BROWN: All right, Wolf, happening now: There are new questions about the potential health risks of ketamine and kratom on college campuses following allegations by a former Cornell University student who says she took ketamine, a federally approved anesthetic turned illegal party drug, at a fraternity party during an alleged gang rape.

[10:35:01]

Another drug under scrutiny on college campuses is kratom after officials found packages of kratom derivatives right near two students at the University of Mississippi who died.

Here in THE SITUATION ROOM is addiction expert Jessica Steinman. She is the chief clinical officer for No Matter What Recovery.

Thank you so much for coming on.

So, in the court documents, Jane Doe alleges that this was the first time she had ever snorted ketamine. She also says she consumed it with marijuana and alcohol. What are the dangers from mixing all of those substances?

JESSICA STEINMAN, NO MATTER WHAT RECOVERY: It's very dangerous to be mixing different substances.

First of all, we don't know what was in the ketamine itself. If it was something they'd gotten in a street purchase, it could be cut with other substances. So that's very dangerous. We also don't know on any person having ketamine what their experience is going to be with it, what dose it is, how much they're using.

And having it mixed with alcohol, marijuana, or other substances is going to worsen its effects.

BROWN: CNN is reporting that Cornell police responded and arrested an unnamed individual who overdose on ketamine at the same fraternity a day before Jane Doe's alleged assault.

Tell us more about what ketamine can do and what an overdose looks like.

STEINMAN: Well, ketamine is a dissociative anesthetic. And used properly, it's used in medical procedures on people and on animals.

As a street drug, as a club drug, it's also known as Special K. And so people are using it to have an altered consciousness. They're wanting to feel euphoric sedation, and that's why it's become such a popular party drug. The concern is that, when it's bought again on the street and is cut with other things, it can be cut with fentanyl.

And that, of course, can lead to overdose and fatal instances, like the -- earlier at Cornell.

BROWN: Tell us a little bit more about how it can impact your perception of what is happening around you.

STEINMAN: Sure.

BROWN: I know different doses can do different things to different people, but help us better understand that.

STEINMAN: So, what it's doing when you're taking it, you still look awake. You are conscious and you are able to look like you're with it, like you're functioning, but you have way less cognitive abilities.

So you're going to have poor coordination. You're going to have that altered sense of self. You're not going to know really how to talk.You're going to have difficulties standing and interacting. It's also going to have a distorted perception of time, sound, touch.

So someone who is high on ketamine is not going to really understand what's happening around them, but they are going to look conscious and awake.

BROWN: All right, I want to turn to kratom.

STEINMAN: Sure.

BROWN: The recent deaths of two students at the University of Mississippi is really putting a spotlight on this drug and potent synthetic products sold under its name. This is a drug that is legal in many places. It can be bought in gas stations and smoke shops.

Why is it so dangerous?

STEINMAN: It's so dangerous because it can cause someone to be -- almost like an opiate, it is very highly sedating, more so than ketamine, and it's going to cause them to nod off. It's going to cause them to -- if overused, they're going to have lack of breathing ability.

Their chest function is going to be a little altered. And so if they have a lot of kratom, they're going to possibly stop breathing. And if they're also going to have so much of it, they can also seize. And so they're having seizures and altered breathing. So it's a huge problem.

BROWN: And I assume that some people who use it aren't just using it in isolation. There could be drinking involved. How might that impact things? STEINMAN: People are using it actually -- when it's in small doses,

it acts like a stimulant in small doses, but what's happening is that people are starting to use more and more of it. So then it has the sedating factors.

And, again, once it's mixed with other substances like alcohol or marijuana, the heavy sedation will happen. And that's when their breathing will slow down even more, and it can be much more dangerous, especially if someone's alone.

BROWN: How addictive are synthetic products like 7-OH and what signs should you look out for if someone may have taken too much of the drug?

STEINMAN: They are incredibly addictive. Someone who is using them is feeling, again, numb and sedated. They're going to feel a sense of euphoria, so they're going to be really wanting to feel that to escape any difficult feelings or difficult issues going on with them.

So they're going to want to continue to feel that on an ongoing basis. And what can happen, again, if you get addicted, it's also very scary to come off them cold turkey, because, if you stop using substances like that that you are addicted to, that is when you may definitely go into seizures.

[10:40:02]

So it's very necessary to go to treatment centers like ours or other detoxes.

BROWN: What are some other drugs that you're worried about circulating around college campuses?

STEINMAN: Well, unfortunately, a lot of drugs have become very available.

Again, we're seeing an uptick in kratom and 7-OH. We're seeing a very large uptick in ketamine. Also, you're going to have a lot of college kids addicted to Ritalin and Adderall. That's been a common theme for many, many years, because it's such a high stimulant, but, of course, legal and prescribed by doctors.

That's going to keep them up, awake, and studying and for partying when they're mixing in with other drugs.

BROWN: So do you think universities should be more involved in regulating drug use? What can be done here?

STEINMAN: Well, the problem is that a lot of these medications are, of course, FDA-approved. Or, for some, they're -- like Xanax and Adderall and Ritalin, those are prescribed by doctors.

And, of course, the kratom is sold at gas stations. So it would help if universities could help regulate it. But, again, I'm not quite sure how they would, if they had stricter consequences on it maybe. But, again, I think more education about it is really the way to go. BROWN: All right, Jessica Steinman, thank you so much -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And coming up: AI trade-off. The CEO of OpenAI now says the risks are worth the benefits. We will discuss when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:45:44]

BROWN: Happening now: a trade-off for the sake of AI.

Sam Altman is taking heat for recent comments he made during a wide- ranging interview with Politico. The OpenAI CEO was laying out the differences between his company and rival Anthropic when it comes to regulating the technology, when he said this:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAM ALTMAN, CEO, OPENAI: One of the biggest differences between us and some of the stricter, let's say, AI safety people, is, we believe that the world should accept some bad things happening for the benefits of this technology and people having the agencies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Joining us now to discuss is seeing a contributor and tech journalist Jacob Ward.

Hi, Jacob.

So let's begin with Altman's warning here. What are we supposed to make of that perspective?

JACOB WARD, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I don't know about you, Pamela, right, but we're not exactly getting asked about this, right?

What he's saying here is that the world should be ready to make some trade-offs for the good things that are coming. But I'm not sure who he's referring to when he says the world, right? It's not you. It's not me. It's not the company Hugging Face, which was attacked by his products.

The democratic inputs around this don't seem to amount much more -- to much more than this public speech that he's been giving. And, of course, from a regulatory perspective, this kind of lighter touch regulatory world that he seems to be advocating for, that very much seems to be what he's getting out of the government right now.

BROWN: I think you make a really important point, because, as we have said on the show, like, these leaders have tremendous power, and yet they are not elected officials, right?

WARD: That's exactly right.

I mean, we're not seeing any democratic inputs whatsoever, and, in fact, the old adage that you should in a functioning democracy get either exit, voice or loyalty. You should be able to walk away, you should stay loyal if you want to, or you should be able to speak up and make a change.

For those of us who work in a job in which AI has become a mandatory part of the gig, you're not allowed to walk away, and we're not getting a whole lot of voice in a world in which now the AI CEOs are the leadership of the safety council that President Trump has put together, not to mention the AI Task Force he just announced, which has almost no experts in anything except making money.

So it is a very undemocratic moment we're in, just as it's becoming clear that AI is truly going to change all of our lives, our relationships, our jobs, and the rest of it, Pamela.

BROWN: Altman has some criticisms over AI dollars -- you mentioned money -- being used in the midterms. He admitted that it hasn't helped the public's perception.

He told Politico -- quote -- "I don't think spending money on politics is what's going to make people feel better about it. The industry needs to figure out a way to address what the actual concerns are. And, right now, a lot of people in the industry are being quite tone- deaf."

Does it seem political campaign spending falls under Altman's categorization of bad things happening? What do you think?

WARD: I mean, I think his idea of bad things happening is probably much scarier than that, if you really put a glass of wine into him and got him going on it.

I do think that political spending is, of course, an issue here, but it is weird this moment we're in, where have we have seen this just litany of scary headlines about what AI can accomplish and the all the scary things people have been doing with it.

And then President Trump's response to that has been to say that we're just going to start calling it superintelligence, as opposed to artificial intelligence, as if the problem here is that the restaurant just needs a new management sign.

So we're just in this weird moment where clearly the core issues here, that people are worried about the effect of AI on their jobs, on their relationships, on their price of energy, that stuff's not being addressed. And, instead, we're at this sort of surface level where the branding and maybe the political campaign issues, maybe that's as deep as we seem to be willing to go right now.

BROWN: I know it's no -- there's no way to know this for certain, but Trump has downplayed the AI risks publicly. He has said he wants to call it superintelligence, as you point out.

But the bottom line is that the economy, so much of it is dependent on AI right now, right? So much money is from AI. So is there a scenario where publicly he's saying -- giving this message to try to calm concerns, right, to make sure the economy isn't impacted, but behind the scenes he's taking more action, like forming this AI Task Force, for example?

[10:50:02]

WARD: Well, I mean, I think you could make the argument that the economy is dependent on AI in one way, but I think what's probably more precise is to say that the stock market is dependent on AI, right?

It is the financing of the trillions of dollars that these companies are on track to spend in the financing of these plans. That's what the stock market is sort of being held up by at the moment. And so I think that the thing that we're seeing in this task force, which in 120 days is supposed to issue some kind of recommendation for a national plan around this stuff, I mean, I think it's really telling that there are no labor leaders on there.

There's no state attorneys general, who are the vanguard of, for instance, suing the social media companies right now. There are no civil rights experts, and there's no consumer advocacy groups. Those folks are maybe supposed to be consulted, but the only people who are seated on that task force that Trump put together, four of them are, like, venture capitalists and finance people like right now.

You know what I mean? Like, these people are deep inside the lines. And so, when you look at Sam Altman saying that we're going to -- we need to take seriously people's concerns. I don't get the vibe that the president feels the same way, considering who he's putting in charge of things, because it's very much insiders in the industry, or, you could argue, even worse, people who stand to directly make money off of that stuff because it props up the stock market.

And so I think this moment that we're in where we're really going to have to figure out what is the long-term way to make the economy healthy in a world in which it's not clear that as many as maybe 20 or 30 percent of us might have not have a job in 10 years?

I think we're going to have to come up with something better than certainly just renaming it superintelligence, Pamela.

BROWN: All right, Jacob Ward, always nice to have you on. Thank you -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And here's what's coming up all new right at the top of the hour.

A U.S. Marine arrested on a suspicion of murder in Japan. It's the latest in a string of criminal allegations against U.S. personnel in Okinawa.

Plus, we're going to hear directly from one of the media witnesses who saw the botched execution of Christa Pike. That's all new in the next hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:56:50] BROWN: The Carolina Panthers outlast the Detroit Lions in prime time, as "Sunday Night Football" returns to Charlotte for the first time in 11 years.

BLITZER: Let's go live right now to CNN sports anchor Coy Wire.

Coy, update our viewers.

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Good morning.

The Panthers said, welcome to our house. And Bryce Young, their quarterback, looked like the one that Carolina has been missing, 329 yards, two touchdowns, no interceptions. Tetairoa McMillan, he was unguardable, career high 14 catches, 192 yards and two scores.

Panthers put up 445 yards on Detroit, 32-26 win. They're 2-2. But forget the record for a second. Young and McMillan are starting to look like the duo that could make Carolina dangerous. Wolf, maybe these Panthers are finding their roar.

Elsewhere, unbeatens collide, Raiders and Chiefs meeting for the first time in their storied rivalry with both teams 3-0. Something's got to give. Raiders up 19-17 in the fourth, Patrick Mahomes hits Tyquan Thornton, career day for him, 111 yards, two touchdowns.

But as he gets up, he gets right back down, dislocated ankle. Kenneth Walker would punch it in on the next play. Vegas fumbled the ensuing kickoff. And just 19 seconds after that last touchdown, Walker again, Kansas City suddenly up 30-19 with under two minutes to go.

But Kirk Cousins finds Brock Bowers, touchdown. Two-point conversion is good, 30-27. Vegas with another chance, interception. Chiefs defense slams the door shut. Kansas City survives the storm in Vegas 30-27. They are 4-0. Not sure which version of the Chiefs is scarier, Pamela and Wolf, the one where Mahomes plays superhero or this version that can still beat you in different ways.

BROWN: There you go.

BLITZER: What an amazing game indeed.

Coy, stay with us very, very quickly. Listen to this. Over the weekend, I was able to catch the Buffalo Bills, my team, the Buffalo Bills-New England Patriots game over at the new Highmark Stadium in nearby Orchard Park, New York. That's just outside of my hometown of Buffalo.

While it wasn't the outcome I was hoping for, it was certainly great to see the Bills play in their new home, which I was lucky enough to get a tour of on the Saturday before the Sunday game. It's certainly different from the days I first started watching my Buffalo Bills as they played at the old War Memorial Stadium in Buffalo.

And something extra special, a pennant hanging inside the new stadium honors three Buffalo Bills fans, including myself. I'm in great company with ESPN anchor Chris Berman and the late NBC anchor and my good friend Tim Russert.

Before kickoff, I also took part in the Bills pregame show to talk about what's so special about being a Bills fan. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: I have been to a lot of cities, I have been to a lot of countries, and I have seen a lot of sports fans, but I think it's fair to say -- and I'm an objective journalist, as you know.

I think it's fair to say the Buffalo Bills fans are unique. They're fabulous. They're wonderful. They're devoted to this team. They're devoted to this area, to the city. And I'm so proud of them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Which is true.

I also went Saturday night to the Buffalo Sabres hockey game. It was the home opener for the Sabres. They defeated the Chicago Black Hawks. So I will leave you with these words, go, Sabres, go, Bills.

(LAUGHTER)

BLITZER: Coy, back to you.

WIRE: Yes.

Wolf, as a former Bills player, and now being able to call you my teammate, this absolutely warms my heart. That city, that fan base means so much to me. And to see your name hanging up there in the rafters with other legends, it's absolutely awesome. I'm so happy for you.

And go, Sabres. Go, Bills.

[11:00:00]