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The Situation Room

Interview With Sen. Thom Tillis (R-NC); USS Abraham Lincoln Set to Return Home; Russian Strikes Kill At Least 33 in Ukraine. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired October 08, 2026 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

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WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Happening now: At least 33 people were killed after a Russian strike set two public buses on fire in Eastern Ukraine. This attack in Kramatorsk is the country's deadliest single strike this year.

Ukrainian officials say there were also 18 people injured. Authorities suspended public transportation, and they're urging residents to evacuate to safer areas.

Let's go live right now to our senior international correspondent, Fred Pleitgen, who's in Berlin.

Fred, what more are you learning about this strike?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Wolf.

Well, we know that this happened at around 10:00 a.m. this morning local time, and that it appears as though those two buses were fairly close to one another. Nevertheless, we're hearing from the Ukrainian side is that the munition that must have been dropped in the vicinity of those two buses must have been extremely big.

And what we're seeing in the aftermath from that incident is that one of the buses apparently was completely destroyed almost immediately, and the other bus then burned out. As you mentioned, Wolf, more than 30 people were killed. Many, many more remain injured.

And, as you can imagine, the folks there who are trying to come to terms with this still on the scene with the forensic teams trying to sort things out over there. And the local authorities there immediately stopped all public transport in that town of Kramatorsk and are urging people to go elsewhere.

This town is extremely important for the Ukrainians, Wolf. Kramatorsk is in the Donetsk oblast in the Donetsk region of Ukraine. It's a place the Russians have been chipping away at, trying to get to. It's part of a fortress belt of towns that the Ukrainians still hold in that area.

However, the situation there has become more and more difficult as the front line has been moving closer to there. And that town is now very much in the range of Russian drones, in the range, of course, also of Russian aerial bombs as well. This used to be pretty much in the rear echelon. Used to be a staging area for Ukrainian forces.

[10:35:17]

But now the local authorities are saying the situation there is getting more and more dangerous, are urging people to leave as the fighting has been getting to that area, closer to that area for quite some time now, Wolf.

BLITZER: Looks like the Russians are simply trying to kill as many Ukrainians as they can, civilians, children, elderly people, whatever they can find. Is that right?

PLEITGEN: Well, look, the situation certainly for civilians in that area has become extremely dangerous and extremely difficult.

If you look at the aftermath, for instance, from this video, we can see that there's those two destroyed buses, but there's also a bunch of netting that we can see around there as well. That's because a lot of the roads, a lot of the streets in that area, those are nets against short distance, against smaller drones, simply because those have become such a threat to civilians and, of course, also to the military that moves through there as well, for the local population.

And that's one of the reasons why the local authorities there are urging people to leave that area as fast as possible. The fighting there is getting closer to that area. And, of course, with every day that passes, they say that the situation there becomes more dangerous for the folks who are still on the ground, Wolf.

BLITZER: Certainly does.

Fred Pleitgen reporting for us, thank you very, very much.

Also happening now: home at last. In just hours, the USS Abraham Lincoln aircraft carrier battle group and the rest of its strike force will arrive in San Diego, and that means thousands of U.S. sailors and Marines are finally returning home after a deployment that lasted close to 11 months.

My co-anchor Pamela Brown is back aboard the Abraham Lincoln.

Pamela, what are sailors saying to you right now about the impending return?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: They're telling me, Wolf, that they are a changed person from when this deployment started 10.5 months ago. They left port in November of last year, and there have been so many twists and turns during their deployment and also, as you well know, we have covered it extensively, some dark moments as well. There were food shortages, supply shortages, eight attempted suicides

across the fleet, Abraham Lincoln and the fleet, including five here on the ship, and including a man overboard, one of the youngest sailors on this ship, that man overboard.

And so there have been some tough times, but the sailors I have been speaking to, they're not focused on that. They're focused on the fact that they have overcome those tough times, they have overcome those obstacles, and they are much tougher now than they were when they started this journey.

But the fact that they're going home today, Wolf, means more to them than words can explain. There is so much emotion, excitement, smiles right now. A lot of these sailors I spoke to said they weren't convinced they would actually be coming home this year because of the extensions and just so many unknowns and so much uncertainty along the way.

Here's what one sailor told me about that.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was like a breath of fresh air, a weight off the chest. It was amazing. Once we really left the fleet, that's when we knew we were going home for real. And it felt amazing to actually tell our families to be like, hey, we're coming home.

Expect us to be home this year, because there is a lot of speculation that we were not coming home this year. We were -- we were even making bets sometimes.

BROWN: Really? Really?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You guys thinking we're coming home or not?

But it was all fun and games.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So, they are going home. Their family members, thousands of them will be waiting at the port there in San Diego Bay.

And, last night, Wolf, I had an opportunity to sit down with the captain of the Abraham Lincoln, Captain Dan Keeler, and I asked him about some of those accountability questions, about the conditions on the ship, about those attempted suicides. And he did recognize the hardships along the way.

He recognized the attempted suicides, like I said, eight across the strike group, which one military official said, it is a high number, five on this ship alone. But he also said everyone who started this deployment is going home alive. He said the more serious mental health cases, they were taken off the ship, and there were many resources on board as well.

I also asked him about, what were the lessons learned from this long deployment? And this is what he told me about what he would do differently next time in terms of communicating with family members of the crew.

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CAPT. DAN KEELER, COMMANDING OFFICER, USS ABRAHAM LINCOLN: I thought we did a very, very good job communicating with the crew, with me talking to the crew.

I found it, because of the operational security restrictions and concerns, like, legitimate security concerns when you're in open conflict for an extended period, it was difficult to communicate with families. And I think we're looking at ways to make that better.

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BROWN: So that is a big takeaway for him, and also for the Navy at large.

Navy leadership is already communicating more in terms of that the aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt telling them ahead of time, look, this is going to be a long deployment, setting those expectations on the front end -- back to you, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Pamela Brown, don't go too far away. We will check back with you in just a little while.

Also coming up, Republican Senator Thom Tillis standing by to join us live here in THE SITUATION ROOM. We will talk about the direction of his party as he retires from Capitol Hill.

That and a lot more coming up next.

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BLITZER: Happening now: The U.S. ambassador to Greece, Kimberly Guilfoyle, and former fiancee of Donald Trump Jr., faces growing scrutiny this morning after "The Wall Street Journal" reported a former Trump donor accused the ambassador of asking him to pay a $100,000 credit card bill before her Senate confirmation hearings.

According to "The Journal," she allegedly offered him access to Trump administration officials. Here's what that donor told ABC News. Listen.

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QUESTION: Did you think that she was asking for that payment in exchange for something?

ERIC DETERS, FORMER TRUMP DONOR: Oh, absolutely. She made it very clear, and the text messages make it very clear. She was so desperate for me to send that $100,000. She said, if you do this for me -- and it's in the text messages -- I will be your ride or die in Trump world.

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BLITZER: Ambassador Kimberly Guilfoyle's lawyer disputes the messages, while a U.S. Embassy official says -- and I'm quoting now -- "Guilfoyle's career in and out of public service is guided by deep and abiding values. She was fully vetted by the bipartisan Senate Foreign Relations Committee and confirmed by the U.S. Senate. The ambassador remains committed to representing the American people with dedication and integrity" -- end quote.

All right, here with us live in THE SITUATION ROOM right now is retiring Republican Senator Thom Tillis from North Carolina. He's the author of a very important, excellent new book entitled "How to Lose Friends and Antagonize Presidents: The Trouble with Sycophants, Courage Outsourcing, and Partisan Groupthink."

This is the book.

And, Senator, thanks very much for writing it.

SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): Thank you.

BLITZER: You're very blunt in the book, and I learned a lot just going through it.

I want you to listen to what the secretary of state, Marco Rubio, said about that report in "The Wall Street Journal" just moments ago. Listen to this.

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MARCO RUBIO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I'm not going to comment on a story that literally posted a few hours ago. I get the game, OK? I have been in this for a long time. Within hours, a member of Congress will write you a letter demanding you answer questions to something we have never seen before.

I don't even know if it's true or not true. So it's just not going to work that way. And it most certainly is not going to work that way when I'm sitting in another country.

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BLITZER: He's overseas right now.

TILLIS: Yes.

BLITZER: When it comes to accountability in the Trump administration, does Congress need to do a better job?

TILLIS: Well, I think we all -- one of our core roles, I talk about this in the book, is oversight. Look, we want to make our colleagues better. When our -- when

Republicans are in the White House, I think oversight is good. If we find something that's concerning, we should pursue it.

You know, in some respects, I wish that, like, Jeanine Pirro maybe would spend time doing the homework before she deems somebody worthy of an indictment. I'm thinking Jay Powell. So, there's a side of me that says, look, I have seen the evidence that broke yesterday on Guilfoyle. Let's see where the...

BLITZER: You read the "Wall Street Journal" story.

TILLIS: Yes, let's see where the evidence goes.

BLITZER: What did you think of that? What did you think of that?

(CROSSTALK)

TILLIS: I think, on its face, it's a horrible optic.

Let's assume that it can all be aboveboard. It's similar to this LaCivita-Blair consulting with the leadership of the Republika Srpska. From the outside, it looks awful. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, but those are very clearly legitimate questions that should be asked of members of Congress.

BLITZER: Because President Trump is responding to that "New York Times" report that two of his political advisers, James Blair and Chris LaCivita, traveled to this small Russia-aligned territory to advise its government on voting issues.

Trump posted this on social media. Let me read it: "I do not have any idea who else they work for, but will, on reflection, ask them, and if there is a conflict, I will terminate them immediately" -- end quote.

You told my colleague Kasie Hunt -- and I'm quoting you now -- "If the reports are true, they should get out of that relationship very, very quickly."

Should President Trump fire them? What do you think?

TILLIS: You know, I'm a go-where-the-facts-lead sort of a guy, but let me tell you about the facts of the Republika Srpska.

I have met with Dodik before. Now, Dodik's not the president now, but he's the most powerful person in this republic, and it's a tenuous relationship in Bosnia and Herzegovina with this region of the Republika Srpska.

Dodik is buddies with Vucic. Dodik, who leans towards Russia more often than not over in Serbia, Dodik is buddies with Putin. Putin has occupied Ukraine. This region is where Putin ultimately wants to go. And I'm saying, guys -- and we know that Russia has tried -- we know that, through hybrid warfare, Russia is going all over Europe affecting the outcomes of elections. And they have the sham elections in the occupied territories of

Ukraine. I was just over in Kharkiv a couple of weeks ago. And I'm telling you, Russia is playing us like a fiddle in terms of showing any sort of olive branch towards them.

[10:50:03]

Kushner saying a win-win? Really, a win-win with somebody who is saying they're going to denazify Ukraine, whose president is Jewish. I mean, the way that they are trying to spend what they are doing in Ukraine and what Putin ultimately wants to do through the whole of that part of Eastern Europe is very concerning to me.

We should not have any fingerprints in the Republika Srpska.

BLITZER: And President Zelenskyy is Jewish, yes.

TILLIS: A hundred percent.

BLITZER: I have spoken to him about his history.

TILLIS: Yes.

BLITZER: Should President Trump fire these two?

TILLIS: I think the president -- I think that they need to answer -- they need to answer questions.

The problem with Washington is everybody -- I can't on the one hand say what bonehead indicted James Powell for taking a pic -- a picture of seashells on a North Carolina beach that said 8647, I can't say that seems a little bit over the top, but let the facts go where they go, and not say the same thing here.

But Guilfoyle, LaCivita, Blair, they need to answer a lot of questions, because, on its face, it's at best horrible optics, and, at worse, something that's worthy of a termination.

BLITZER: We will see what happens.

The Democrats say they plan to investigate allegations of corruption and abuses of power by the Trump administration if -- and it's a huge if -- they take back the House of Representatives. Would you support those oversight investigations?

TILLIS: You know, if they're done properly, Wolf.

One of the reasons -- I have been criticized for not even considering voting for impeachment after January 6. I said, guys, it's unlike any impeachment in history of a president of the United States. You didn't let him sit. You didn't give him defense counsel. You did it quickly. It wasn't deliberate.

If it's a deliberate and thorough and fair investigation, of course. If it's a snap one, where everybody has the outcome before they even do their opening comments, then that's just another one of the things about Washington that I think is broken.

BLITZER: Speaking of the midterm elections that are coming up very, very soon, President Trump repeated this pitch to voters last night at a Texas rally for Republican Senate candidate Ken Paxton. Listen to this.

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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Pretend that I'm on the ballot, because we get a lot more votes, we get -- when I'm on the ballot, we get exactly 48 percent more votes.

(CHEERING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: You endorsed Republican Michael Whatley, who is running for your Senate seat in North Carolina. Will that message help Republicans hold your seat?

TILLIS: No, it's a math issue in North Carolina. North Carolina has 40 percent unaffiliated voters, 30 percent even -- or 30-30 Democrat- Republican. You can't win. If everybody in the MAGA base shows up, it's simply not enough to win an election in North Carolina.

Michael needs to go out and resonate with the unaffiliated voters the way that I have. I kept this seat. I'm the first senator since Jesse Helms to get reelected in this Senate seat. It's always a tight race there. And unless you're in touch with the unaffiliated difference- makers in the state, it's almost impossible for a Republican, or really now a Democrat.

The thing I love about North Carolina, it is legitimately a purple state and it's a microcosm of the U.S. electorate. If Republican or Democrat candidates do not resonate with the majority of the unaffiliateds, they have no path to victory.

BLITZER: You probably saw the most recent polls; 74 percent of likely voters now say Trump's policies have increased their cost of living; 20 percent say they have had no effect. Only 6 percent say they have decreased.

Why should voters keep Republicans in power right now?

TILLIS: Well, I believe, first and foremost, we have to look at some of these candidates.

Talarico in Texas, in spite of my issues with Paxton and the fact that the president should have had Cornyn coming back, we'd have walked into that seat, these are some pretty radical people. Talarico has been supportive of nuking the filibuster since 2022, when Biden tried to force Democrats to do it.

So, I'm worried about an overreaching Congress that's just going to continue this tumult, Wolf. The point that I'm trying to make in the book is, we're an exceptional nation, and unfortunately a part of American exceptionalism is the next administration wants to beat the last one in some of the abuses and overreaches. And we have to stop that cycle for the good of this country.

BLITZER: You have written a pretty blunt and amazing book...

TILLIS: It's a little blunt.

BLITZER: ... "How to Lose Friends and Antagonize Presidents."

So, speaking of presidents, on the back cover of your book...

TILLIS: Yes.

BLITZER: And I'm sure you went...

(CROSSTALK)

TILLIS: Unfortunately, my little granddaughter saw it, but -- yes.

BLITZER: There's a whole bunch of quotes from Trump about you.

TILLIS: Yes.

BLITZER: "He was a quitter. Now he can have all the fun he wants for a few months with some of his RINO friends," Republican in name only, "screwing the Republican Party."

TILLIS: Yes.

BLITZER: Then there's a quote from Trump: "He didn't run because I didn't support him. Senator Tillis is a loser, stone cold. He was forced to leave the Senate because I wouldn't support him and he quit."

What's your reaction to Trump? I mean, he's brutal.

TILLIS: Well, you see that my responses, they were private, were pretty direct.

[10:55:03]

The president knows full well that I told him he needed to find a replacement before he ever talked about looking for somebody there, because I documented that too. The point that I made when I told him that it was time to find a replacement in a text is that I judged that, between the liberation day -- and I quote -- there's some quotes from my letter to my conference members then -- and his rolling this well-intended, but poorly architected health care policy out, was going to lead to a bloodbath this cycle.

I hope that we're able to limit our losses in the Senate, but we're hitting -- we're getting health care message. It's like Obamacare, well-intended, poorly executed. The one thing they have in common, they were rammed down Congress' throats on a partisan basis.

We have got to get out of this cycle, get Congress to start working better together, because the American people are getting tired of it. But the president -- and I will say, if you take a look at the content of that text, the president and I have continued to maintain contact and communicate.

BLITZER: You still talk to him occasionally?

TILLIS: Absolutely.

BLITZER: Interesting.

TILLIS: Yes.

And so I respect the president for that, because other people would have probably just shut down.

BLITZER: Yes.

TILLIS: So he's trying to deal with me and my frankness.

But he needs to understand it's only because I want Republicans to succeed. There's nothing in this for me, except that I have got a party I have invested an entire adult life in, and I want it to be relevant in statewide elections and federal elections.

BLITZER: Well, the book is amazing, "How to Lose Friends and Antagonize Presidents."

And you have lost some friends and have antagonized presidents, so you know the subject. You know the subject well. Thank you very much for writing it.

TILLIS: Thank you.

BLITZER: I think everybody who reads this book will learn a lot.

TILLIS: I appreciate it.

BLITZER: Appreciate it very much. Thank you.

TILLIS: Thank you.

BLITZER: We will be right back.

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