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The Source with Kaitlan Collins

Sheriff's Office: Suspect Still At Large After Two Active Shooter Events In Lewiston, Maine; Sources: 16 Dead In Multiple Shootings In Lewiston, ME; Police Release Picture Of Car Connected To Active Shooter Situation. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired October 25, 2023 - 21:00   ET



ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Are those the same?

MICHAEL OREN, FORMER ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S.: They don't have to be, unfortunately. Why? Because I'm going to tell you as candidly as I can. Israel can't accept a ceasefire. Ceasefire means Hamas wins.

Ceasefire would be like, after Pearl Harbor, America saying, "OK, we're going to have a ceasefire because the Japanese have a lot of prisoners," or after 9/11, and on 12th of September saying, "We're going to have a ceasefire. We're going to somehow negotiate." It's impossible.

A, with a ceasefire, if Hamas wins? That means Hamas gets away with murdering, butchering 1,400 of our citizens. Security is not returned to this country. We have next to no deterrence power. We have a very, very tough neighborhood. Who's going to be afraid of us?

COOPER: Michael Oren, thank you. Sure.

OREN: Always. Good. Yes. Thank you.

COOPER: CNN's coverage, in Israel, continues.



We start with breaking news, tonight, because what we are monitoring, as we come on the air, right now, are two active shooter events that have happened, in Lewiston, Maine, and a third possible shooting location.

We're still gathering more details, tonight. But what we have heard, from the Sheriff's office there, is they released this image, of a suspect, who is still at large. They are encouraging all of the local businesses, to close their doors, to lock down, and for people to stay inside their homes, as they are continuing to investigate, and search for this shooter.

I want to go straight to CNN's Athena Jones, who is covering this story. Athena, what is the latest we know, about these separate locations that we are hearing about, from authorities.

ATHENA JONES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. We do know that this all began to unfold, just after 7 PM. I listened to the scanner just now, the authorities talking about multiple people down at, at least two locations.

You can see them there. Schemengees Bar & Grille, and Sparetime Recreation. That's a bowling alley. Those are the first two locations that authorities have been investigating shootings at.

And we just learned, from the Sun Journal newspaper, in Maine, that a third location that Walmart distribution center may also be the site of another shooting.

You see there the suspect, who is still at large.

The Sheriff's department, Androscoggin County Sheriff's Department is calling on people to -- and the State Police, are calling on people, to shelter-in-place, both in Lewiston and in the nearby town of Auburn. That's a town about two miles away. You can see that, the stretch of area, there in Maine. These are relatively small towns.

But there's still a lot more information we need to gather, on this unfolding situation. What we do know though, is that authorities, in Maine, are investigating at least two, possibly three, different locations, for shooting events. And they're looking for this man, as you can see there, holding a long gun, looks like a powerful weapon.

Multiple people down. We don't yet know an exact number.

But of course, Kaitlan, we do know that gun violence is a common problem, in America. This is, if this pans out, into multiple people being injured, this is at least the third mass shooting, happening in America, this month.

COLLINS: And, Athena, I mean, obviously, this is breaking. I know that you're listening to this Police scanner. You're speaking to the authorities, trying to learn more about this. But what do we know, so far, about the multiple locations here? That seems to be a key part of this.

JONES: It's unclear. They are putting out a picture of just one person. We do not know if that means if they believe there is only one shooter. But certainly, they have a picture of a shooter.

The first two locations that were reported, one was the Sparetime Recreation. That is a bowling alley, recreation games area. The other is a Bar & Grille. And then, the third, a Walmart distribution center. They are not -- they're not right around the corner from each other. They appear to be near each other.

But we still don't know if this person may have been working with other people. We don't know where this person is, of course, right now. And that is why authorities, both Androscoggin County Sheriff's Office, and Maine State Police, telling residents in these two towns, Lewiston and Auburn, to shelter-in-place.

We also heard that the schools are on lockdown. We understand there are events happening, at area schools, tonight, as well.

And we know that the Governor of Maine, Janet Mills, has put out a statement, saying that she's monitoring this situation.

So, still unfolding. This has been going on now for, looks like about two hours, that two hours ago that these incidents began, and still a very, very active situation, as authorities search, for this person, who is still on the loose, at least one person --


JONES: -- the shooter, who is still on the loose, Kaitlan.

COLLINS: Athena, we're going to let you continue to talk to your sources, speak to the authorities, about the details that they're learning of this. You stand by.

I also want to bring in CNN's Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst, John Miller, is here.

First, John, we know this suspect is still at large. Can you tell what kind of weapon that is he has, in this photo that has been released? I mean, what questions do you have, about what -- not only what that is, but what he could be doing, right now, given he's apparently not been captured yet.

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT & INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: So, that's an AR-15-style rifle. It appears he has a telescopic sight, mounted on top of it, which he seems to be looking over.


Some of those sights come with a laser optic, where you can see a red dot, on the site, so you can actually look from a distance. Wherever you see the dot is where the where the bullet is going to land. That's kind of very common, in combat situations, Police situations.

But the brown hoodie, the blue tactical pants, you can see the pockets on the side are bulging out, which is likely he's carrying additional magazines.

What we're getting, right now, is, and this comes from multiple law enforcement sources, is they believe they have 16 deceased, and between 50 and 60 injured or shot. That is a stunning number.

Now, this is preliminary, and these numbers are subject to change. We don't know from authorities up there, if the 50 to 60 are all people --

COLLINS: Wait, John. Can you just say those numbers, one more time? Just -- I just want to be really clear. Can you just repeat those one more time? MILLER: Sure. What we're getting from multiple sources is that they have 16 deceased. That's people who were shot and killed in this incident, across those locations.

And then, between 50 and 60, who were injured. Now, of the 50 to 60, we don't know if all of them were wounded by gunfire, or others may have been injured, in the stampede, to get out of the way, or to leave the building or to flee.

But these are extraordinarily significant numbers, if they don't change.

COLLINS: And John, I would just want to update everyone as we are. This is breaking news. This is happening, in this moment, as we're learning new details.

What we have confirmed is that Central Maine Medical Center has said that they are responding, to a mass casualty event, right now. Obviously, we're learning more details. But they do say that they're coordinating, with other hospitals, in the area, to take in patients. It seems to suggest that there would be a large number of people that they're taking in.

But I think a key part of this, in addition to that response, is this person, in this photo, is still at large, right now. I mean, what are they doing, trying to find him, right now?

MILLER: Well, what they're doing is what we're helping with, right now, which is they gathered this video. They froze it, to the best image they could get, of the individual's face, looking over the gun. They put it out to us and other media immediately.

This is something that agencies have struggled with. But going to the crowdsource, which is everybody watching, who may have seen this individual, today, may spot him, tonight, on the road, or at a gas station, or on the street, or may know him, may know him personally, or from social media? That is the crowdsourcing that they are doing, to try and get the public, to contact them, either directly or over social media, to say, "This is who this individual is."

Because that would allow them A, to go look for him, where they think he might be. B, alert people that who he is, and C, trace him to a vehicle, which if he's acting alone, he had to travel by car, between these three locations, to make up the time, between the incidents, if he's acting with someone else, that car could be highly relevant. So, this is a very dynamic incident.

As far as the injuries, that Medical Center, of course, is not built for that number of casualties, to come in, in a trauma situation.

They've been landing helicopters, at various locations, from the scene, medevac helicopters, and taking after triaging victims, taking them to medical centers, that are further out. So, they're really using the maximum of the medical resources, available, in the State of Maine, and New England, by adding in the medevac factor.

But as you pointed out, job one, right now, is figuring out who this individual is, and where he is, and getting him in custody.

COLLINS: Right. And I mean, I'm looking at these numbers, John, from your reporting, on what you're learning, from law enforcement sources, about what's going on here.

I mean, Maine is not a very populated, densely populated area. And to see these numbers, 16 people you are told, are dead, in these shootings. I think, I mean, obviously, they seem to have some sort of connection.

Have your sources said anything, about the difference, in what these locations are, if there's any kind of through line in them?

MILLER: No. And you've got, one is a bar. One is a bowling alley. Another is a distribution center. And that is still something we're trying to confirm, and get more information on.


But you had victims that also scattered, beyond these locations, victims that ran into the woods, people, who were found, at other locations, where they fled to. So, they're trying to sort out which victims came from what shooting location, still.

COLLINS: And so, what kind of response, do you believe, they're trying to marshal, right now, given, I mean, this is a pretty remote area? And you're hearing 50 to 60 people. I mean, they're simultaneously dealing with that medical aspect, but also still trying to locate the shooter.

MILLER: So, that's right. And what you've got is the Lewiston Police Department, which is the first responder here. But the Maine State Police is basically bringing in all of its resources.

The Maine State Intelligence Fusion Center is calling in all of its people, to help backtracking through information, and intelligence, and whatever else they can do, to assist. And you also have the mutual aid, from all the other towns, and ambulance services, being brought to bear here.

COLLINS: Right, so they're going to need multiple resources from different areas.

John, I know you're speaking to your law enforcement sources. I want you to stand by, and let us know if you have an update, on these numbers that you're hearing, or the efforts to apprehend the person who is at large here.

I also want to bring in CNN's Josh Campbell.

Josh, as you are looking at this situation, what do you believe these law enforcement sources are doing, right now, these law enforcement authorities, right now, to try to locate this shooter?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you have this manhunt, obviously, that's underway, that's now including multiple agencies. This is obviously not a large metropolitan area. And so, when the first 9-1-1 call comes in, it may take a small department, the amount of time, to actually get there. And so, I think that's why we see these at least two confirmed locations.

People wondering, "Well, why weren't officers able to stop this person?" Sometimes, that takes time. There's this mantra in law enforcement that action beats reaction. The suspect makes the first move, and then Police are playing catch-up, trying to locate this person.

As you look at the distance, between those two confirmed locations that we know, it's about a little over four miles. And so, that was a distance that this person had to travel.

We see that photo, obviously, that they're pushing out there, to the public. If they -- two things. If there's someone who knows, who this individual is, they certainly want to hear from you. But also, to members of the public, if you see this person, someone matching this description, they want you to pick up the phone immediately and call 9-1-1.

I want to focus on, as we zoom in on that photo, this weaponry that we're seeing. In so many of these mass shooting incidents, we see the same kind of high-powered assault style rifle that's used. And particularly, as you look at the number of victims, that we've been reporting, much of this comes down to what is near the front, of that weapon.

That's the magazine that contains the ammunition that goes in to that high-powered assault-style rifle. If it's a large capacity magazine, we're talking about upwards of 30 rounds. There are additional magazines that you can buy aftermarket that have much more firepower than that.

The reason why that's important is because a suspect, with that type of weaponry, can fire multiple rounds, in a short amount of time. They also don't have to reload as much as someone who might have a pistol.

And so, this is, again, very morbid to talk about. But you look at the victims here, the numbers that we're seeing. A lot of that comes down to how much firepower someone can expend, in a short amount of time, and then flee to the second location.

Now, one thing that we do know is that everyone, who was at the scene, of both of those two confirmed incidents are now potential witnesses. Obviously, we know that the medical center, as you were reporting, Kaitlan, has issued this mass casualty notice. They're taking in victims. They're coordinating with other hospitals, in the area.

But individuals, who were there, at these scenes, who are not injured, are key witnesses, for Police. They want to know, what did they see? Did anyone recognize this individual? After these incidents, and sadly, this has become rote by now with mass shooting after mass shooting, in the United States?


CAMPBELL: One thing that I look at, as a former law enforcement officer, is what is the -- what are the characteristics of the location? This obviously, the evening time, you have a bar, you have a bowling alley, both places, where you would have a large population potentially.

And so, again, if the motivation is just to cause indiscriminate large mass of -- loss of life, that's where you would want to go. And so, Police obviously sending out this shelter-in-place, to other locations, to lock those places down, so this individual doesn't come in. And they certainly want people off the streets, as they go grid -- in this gridded search, to try to find this person, Kaitlan.

COLLINS: Yes, Josh.

And I just want to stay on the weapon, for a moment, because you're talking about the magazine that's on it, but also -- and just let me take a step back here, for a moment, for people, who are just tuning in.

What we are talking about is a mass casualty event, according to the Maine Medical Center. We believe there are multiple locations, where there is an active shooter, who has not been caught yet by the authorities. We are talking about, this is happening in Maine, in the City of Lewiston.

Right now, what we are hearing, from CNN's John Miller, is that 16 people have been killed, in these shootings.

Major questions still remain, tonight. The suspect is still at large. And the Sheriff's office has released this photo, here, that you can see, of the suspected shooter, holding this gun.


And Josh, as you look at this, what John Miller was mentioning, is that he can see a scope, on this gun, as well. I mean, what would that tell you about what this person's intentions were, as they're clearly walking, into a public place, here?

CAMPBELL: Well sadly, if you're in a public place, that's densely populated, you wouldn't even need a scope like that, I mean, if you're just firing, indiscriminately, in a packed crowd.

Now, we don't know if he's actually using that scope. It appears that he's looking over the top of it. But that tells you someone, who had a type of weapon system there that had these additional accoutrements, that essentially improve the accuracy, of that shot, which is obviously very troubling, in the hands of someone, who is trying to kill people.

One other aspect of that firearm? That obviously you have this manhunt that's underway. But the firearm itself is a key piece of intelligence here, because every shot that's fired, you have the bullet that comes out the front end, of that rifle. But the shell casing that's left behind gets ejected out of the weapon.

The reason why that is so important is because we know agencies, for example, like the ATF, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, they have a Special Intelligence Center that looks at those shell casings.

Every firing pen that hits shell casing, it's like a fingerprint. They're unique. And so, they can run this through their database, of known identifiers, to try to figure out if they can identify, where this weapon came from, who was the owner of this weapon. And so, that is certainly something that would be happening, behind-the-scenes. And we've seen that in many cases actually prove to be a key piece of intelligence, for authorities, in trying to identify the shooter.

I would say also, we're showing the image, right now. Obviously, we're often very hesitant, to give publicity, to a mass shooter. This is the incident, where Police want us to do exactly what we're doing, and get that image out there. And we've seen that beneficial at times.

I could tell you, I was in Highland Park, just about two years ago, near Chicago, where there was this parade mass shooting.

COLLINS: July 4th.

CAMPBELL: You had a suspect that was -- yes, July 4th, exactly. July 4th Parade, you had people that were just out, enjoying themselves. This individual came, formed what was the authorities referred to as a sniper's nest, and was shooting down on that crowd.

But what was so important, they quickly got the information out. They got the image of the vehicle. And a concerned citizen, who saw that on the media, saw this suspect, called Police. And they -- I was actually there, when the arrest went down. The SWAT team descended on that person, they were able to take him into custody.

And so, if you're wondering why we're showing this image, it's not just to show someone, who's there, holding a weapon. This is the image that Police want people, in that area, and indeed around the country, who may know this individual. If you can recognize this person, they certainly want to hear from you, as this manhunt continues, Kaitlan.

COLLINS: Yes. And I think that is something that we're hearing. Residents are being asked to shelter-in-place. They're posting this, on Twitter. They're saying it's an active shooter in progress.

They're saying the City of Lewiston, all of Auburn and Lewiston, are strongly urged, to shelter-in-place, lock their doors, report suspicious individuals and activities to 9-1-1. They say most businesses, in the area, are closing, as they are still trying to apprehend this person, who is at large.

I want to go to CNN's Senior National Security Analyst, Juliette Kayyem.

Juliette, when you think of how they are marshaling resources, right now, in the State of Maine, not only to deal with what this Medical Center says, is a mass casualty event, 15 -- 16 people we believe have been killed, in this shooting. 50 to 60 people have been injured. Though, of course, it's unclear how many of that is from the shooting, and the aftermath of the chaos, of this shooting.


COLLINS: What does that look like, right now?

KAYYEM: Well, one is as everyone's been saying, your number one priority is to just end the situation. So, you have to capture the killer.

The notification -- the picture of him is part of an effort, because some -- to engage the community. Someone knows who he is, someone knows where he lives, someone knows who his girlfriend is, who knows? But people are going to be able to identify him relatively soon.

Shelter-in-place is because you have now an indiscriminate active shooter.

There may be linkages between all these places that we're seeing. It certainly, from my perspective, looks like either he's targeted a neighborhood, or this is truly indiscriminate. He just wants a whole bunch of people dead, and he has the weaponry to do it. He has -- he's able to do it.

The third is on your marshaling of resources. As you've been saying, Maine is small. I'm looking at, at every ports, of helicopters being at -- medical helicopters being called in.

You have what's called Mutual Aid. This is a community that will not have the resources, to deal with the kind of numbers dead that we are seeing, let alone a massive manhunt. So, they are calling in resources, from all over the State, plus neighboring States. Everyone is moving there, because they need that support.

And then, you start to think about motive (ph). What we know about the area is that it's a -- Maine is not highly dense. It is a -- it is, for Maine, an incredibly diverse community. This is -- for those of us, who know immigrant communities, this is where all the Somalians went.


So, you're going to look to whether there was a personal motive, a societal motive, or something else, just a randomness, of wanting to kill horrifically, a lot of people. And that -- those are the different areas that this investigation will go.

Everything is on the table, because of the randomness of the locations. It's not like it's a school, a single school, or it's not like it's a single workplace. It's a lot of different places, which is not totally common.

And in our mass shootings, people tend to go to places they're familiar with, or places that there'll be kids, or that they know someone, who works there. This one is a little bit different. So, that's where we are, right now, and in the middle of it.

COLLINS: And given what you just said there, Juliette, I think, is really important, about having the ability to deal with something, of this scale. I mean, 15 --


COLLINS: -- 16 people being killed, and 50 to 60 people being injured, in a remote place, in Maine, is quite --


COLLINS: -- it'd be a large event, for any --

KAYYEM: You know?

COLLINS: -- for a mass casualty event, for any city, a metropolitan area, much less an area like this. So, how do they deal with this? What does that look like, right now --

KAYYEM: You're moving --

COLLINS: -- about an hour?

KAYYEM: Yes, you're moving resources. Look, they don't even have -- they don't even have the doctors, to be able to deal with this, just simply because the numbers aren't going to match the number of people, you have coming in.

Let's say there are 17 dead. And that gets confirmed by law enforcement? You're going to have any number of people, who are injured. You literally do not have the manpower, or womanpower, doctor power, in a lot of these places, to be able to care for these patients.

So, you only have two options. You bring in lots of people in, or you're moving the patients that you can, to area hospitals. So, this is the surge planning that we do, in these high-consequence events, that you are, these concentric circles. So, all of the area hospitals are open.

And now, you've got all Maine hospitals open. You've got every helicopter that you can imagine, in the air, now, trying to move people, from here, from Lewiston, to surrounding areas, where they can find doctors, trauma surgeons, anything that they need.

At the same time, you have a relatively small community that will not -- that is changed completely after today, right? This is, we're sort of in the -- we're in the midst of it, right now.

Tomorrow, they wake up. There's going to be a before-after for this community. You have family notification. You have family unification. You have people, who do not know, if their kid put their phone down, or is their kid at the hospital. So, you have a whole family unification and notification system going on, too. We're so -- sorry, Kaitlan. I mean, we're so good at this, for all the wrong reasons. I mean, I know it sounds horrible. But unfortunately, there is a playbook that we have to follow. And that's what you're seeing now.

COLLINS: Yes. It is unfortunately, a playbook --


COLLINS: -- that people are all too familiar with.


COLLINS: Obviously, we've seen this.

John Miller is still with us.

John, when it comes to this active shooter situation, that we have unfolding, here, where the sheriff's office is putting out this photo? They obviously want it to be shared, with the public, because they want people to be aware of who to look for. They also want to be able, to try to identify this person, to learn more about him.

I mean, what does that look like, from that perspective, when it comes to looking at Twitter, looking at Facebook, looking at Instagram, looking at the potential social media channels, of this shooter, where we've seen, in the past, sometimes, active shooters have posted online, in some potentially dark corner of the internet, before they go and commit an act like this.

MILLER: Well, that's true, Kaitlan.

I think in 85 percent to 90 percent, depending on whose study, you look at, 85 percent to 90 percent of active shooter incidents, they have, what the profilers refer to as leakage, which is the event is preceded by the person, either telling people what they're going to do, and people don't believe it, or making vague comments, like, "In a week or two, nobody's going to ever forget my name," or, "The people who crossed me are going to be sorry for what they did." And they find that very common.

And since we have seen the spate of active shooter incidents, and the body counts, and the frequency continue to rise in this country, there has been a lot of urging, on the part of law enforcement, school officials, college administrators, to say, "When you hear statements like that, even if you think 'Well, I'm not sure,' you should really come forward and report those."


And then, as you brought up, social media has become another factor, where people will think of the Buffalo shooter. They will create a communique, a video. And they will have it timed, to release, when they are doing the shooting; or they will have someone else post it, for them, either knowing or not knowing the contents; or they will have a written manifesto, as we saw, in the El Paso shooting; or a video that is sent to a news network, as we saw in the Virginia Tech shooting.

The offender characteristics that we see, in these individuals, usually tell us that it's a person, who is failing socially, with their own network, with work, with school, often with family as well that they feel increased isolation.

There's a narcissist quality that makes them blame all their problems, on others, and then decide that others, whether they're the exact people, or just people in general, are going to pay for that.

And that's how you end up in a place, where you say, "Well, why that bar? And why this bowling alley? And why this other location? And why those people?" And we are here, again tonight.


MILLER: Back in that conversation.

COLLINS: And John, when you look at this picture, I mean, you can see he's clearly -- we don't know the age yet, obviously. But he's clearly a younger man, a White male, with this gun that he's obtained, in Maine.

I mean, what are you -- the Maine -- the gun laws, in Maine, I mean, what can you tell us about them?

MILLER: Well, Maine is a state, where you are able to own a long gun, without a permit. I don't know if they have any assault weapon qualifiers, as New York and some other States do, although I would consider that unlikely, because it is a State, full of hunters, and woods and sportsmen.

But I think what you're looking at is a gun that was developed, for the U.S. Military, to be used in war, which had sales surge, after 9/11, after the invasion of Iraq, and the protracted war in Afghanistan. It became a symbol. And a lot of people decided to buy it, for home protection, buy it, for hunting, buy it, for target practice. But it's not built for that. It's built for maximum lethality.

As Josh Campbell pointed out a few minutes ago, you've got that tactical sling that he has, which you can see coming down, from the bottom of the gun. He's got his scope on top. He's got his 30-round magazines, where you can fire numerous rounds, before changing magazines. It is a weapon of war. And it has become all too common, in these incidents.

COLLINS: Well, and Josh Campbell, speaking of the fact that this weapon of war that John mentions there, I mean, what the authorities do know is that he is armed. I mean, this person is at large. I mean, maybe we don't know that he definitely has it with him. But it looks pretty likely, based on the photo that they've just released.

How does that change this manhunt that we know is underway, as of 9:27? And I should note, what the City's emergency alert system went off, just after 8 PM, indicating that an active shooter was located in Lewiston, Maine. Here it is 9:30 PM, nearly. And we do not have any word that they've apprehended this suspect yet.

How does him being armed change this manhunt that's happening right now?

CAMPBELL: Well he's certainly being considered armed and dangerous, just based on the nature of the circumstances.

I mean, there have been certain shooters, for example, here in Monterey Park, California. It was a mass shooting, at a dance hall, where a suspect went to a second location. He got into some kind of encounter. And the weapon was left behind. Now, authorities obviously don't call that all-clear, that the person doesn't have a gun. They can have multiple guns.

But the point that you're making, we haven't heard from Police that they have located a weapon. So, they're certainly going to be treating this situation, as though this individual is still armed.

We've seen these incidents get resolved, in a number of different ways. Sometimes, the shooter ends up taking their own life. Sometimes, they engage with law enforcement, and there's a shootout. And sometimes, they surrender. Of course, we just don't know exactly how this is going to come to resolution, right now.

But we do know law enforcement is fanning out, around that agency, as John was mentioning, a short time ago, all of these agencies bringing all their resources to bear, in this State of Mutual Aid, providing support, providing manpower, to try to find this individual, and essentially appealing to the public, that if you see this person, or you know who this person is, they want to hear from you.

There is also, at the scene of each crime, what would be --

COLLINS: Josh, can I -- can I just have you pause, for one moment?

CAMPBELL: Yes, please.

COLLINS: I want you to finish this thought.

But I want people to know what they're watching right now.


COLLINS: And this is video that we have just obtained. You can see people running. They are running, from the bowling alley that we believe is the site of one of these shootings, here in Maine that we are covering at this moment, this breaking news coming in.

There's this video of people sprinting, from the bowling alley. You can see several people here.

I mean, what does that tell you about how potentially crowded? I mean, it's a bowling alley, on a Wednesday night. This is the scene of an active shooting, Josh.


CAMPBELL: No, exactly. And you see law enforcement approaching. You can see the reflection of the Police deck lights there, in that window, authorities arriving at the scene. They don't know, at the time, as they're making their approach that the suspect may be in and among the crowd.

We see people there, walking out, with their hands up. We've seen that, sadly, in so many instances, innocent people, who are now victimized and traumatized.

But the first thing that authorities want to ascertain is, is this friend, or is this foe? And so, they have to methodically go through this area, and try to determine, if the person is still there.

And if the -- if these people there are not injured, they're now witnesses. Authorities are going to want to ask them, "What did you see? What did you hear? Did you recognize this individual? Where did this person go? What was the last known location? To what direction did he flee?" All of that critical information that then gets broadcast out, to other officers, as they try to hone in, on where this person is.

There, a new image that was just released. We're now getting a profile image of this person. No new information there, from a weaponry standpoint, other than the fact that authorities want the public, to have various different angles, of this person.

If you see someone that you know, has this type of clothing, that resembles this person, with those characteristics, that looks, you know, someone down the -- you know, someone who parts the hair on the right, that has all these characteristics.

Anyone watching who might say, "You know what? I know who this person is," authorities want you to call them, right now. Because again, they're trying to backtrack here, to try to figure out, who this individual was.

And then, at each individual scene, the two confirmed scenes that we know, as the manhunt happens, there's also a robust Police effort, at each of those scenes.

I've been part of these, in law enforcement, after these shooting incidents, where you're literally going door to door. At this hour, very difficult, because of the cover of darkness. If it's a business? Then they might not be open.

But if it's a residence, A, you're trying to make sure that there's not a threat in those areas if the person has segregated (ph) him, in an area, around that building. But you're also wanting to pull a CCTV footage, any security footage, any Ring doorbell camera footage.

And these, what they call, Intel teams, will gather all that information, to try to find, "Here's where we saw that person go. Here was a particular vehicle that was in both locations," better still, if we're able to get a shot of a license plate, on a vehicle that was in both locations.

All that is very time- and resource-intensive work. But it's happening behind-the-scenes. And that's why, again, John was mentioning, just a flooding of law enforcement, going into this area, it's not as simple as just, patrolling the streets, and looking for this person.

Now, a lot of stuff happening, right now, behind-the-scenes, in order to try to find out who this person is. And then, as we mentioned, the weapon itself, there could be key pieces of evidence --


CAMPBELL: -- ejected from that gun, with these shell casings, that certainly would be beneficial, and try to identify the owner. If it was purchased legally, then you can get an identification. So, a lot of work there, Kaitlan.

COLLINS: Well, and Josh, just to recap here, what we are following, is a breaking news situation, a shooting that has happened, we believe, at multiple locations, a bar and a bowling alley, in Lewiston, Maine.

What we are told, as of right now, 9:32 PM, this shooter is still at large. The authorities have released these photos to the public. They are trying to the public's help, in locating this person.

John Miller is reporting that 16 people have been killed. At least 50 to 60 more have been injured in this.

And I do want to note President Biden, who is, right now, hosting a steak dinner, for the Prime Minister of Australia, we are being told by the White House that he has been briefed, on this shooting. So, the White House is monitoring this as well.

Josh, given the fact that this suspect is still at large, right now, how much harder is this search, given it's nighttime, right now?

CAMPBELL: No, that's the key factor. I mean, this person can easily hide, under the cover of darkness. And, sadly, in instances, where Police may be near this person, it may not be until that individual actually opens fire, or provides some other sound or movement that allows authorities, to vector into that individual, that they're actually able to locate him.

Now, we know that for example, the U.S. marshals, who were really good at tracking fugitives, would certainly be brought in, the bloodhounds and all the resources that they have.

But in this initial emergent phase, we're talking about an area that is not near a metropolitan area. It takes time to get resources, to that location. But by now, at this point, we're no doubt, seeing multiple agencies, from across the State, perhaps neighboring States.

Because of the location, the proximity to the nation of Canada, there are no doubt border alerts that are going out. We've seen that in instances as well, where you have a mass shooting, that's near an international border, just to provide this very image that we're seeing, to ensure that every one of those border guards has this picture, and can scrutinize anyone, who might be trying to flee, in that direction.

But just, right now, still too soon to figure out what is the endgame for this individual? Did they want this to end, in their own death, or are they trying to flee?

I'll tell you, you and I, Kaitlan, we're talking, a moment ago, about, for example, one of many mass shootings that you and I have covered. This shooting in Highland Park, on July 4th, two years ago?


Authorities actually told us that the suspect, in that case, after he fled, the initial mass shooting, he went to another area, near a park, and was looking for additional large gatherings, of people, which is obviously so chilling. Now, he was fleeing Police. So, he didn't stop to conduct another attack. But authorities said that he certainly had the weaponry, with him, in that case, if he wanted to.

That is why we're seeing these shelter-in-place orders go out. Authorities don't want these large gatherings. Certainly, if there are bars, if there are restaurants, places where you might have a large gathering of people, they want those areas, to either shelter-in- place, to lock down, or to disperse, because you don't want to provide another potential target, for this individual.

And then, they also don't want people, out on the streets, as these Police patrols are going through, trying to find this person. They don't want, you know, they don't want the innocence (ph), essentially, off the street, to let them do their work.

But a lot of stuff happening, right now, behind-the-scenes. Until we get that all-clear, you can only imagine that there will be continued resources, coming in, to backfill those already underway with this manhunt.

COLLINS: Yes. And it has now been over 90 minutes, since that first alert went out, still no all-clear yet, still waiting on an update, from the authorities, there in Maine.

We have former Washington D.C. Police Chief, and Philadelphia Police Commissioner, Charles Ramsey, here with me.

I'm so glad you're here to offer your expertise on this. I mean, what would you be doing, right now, as they're trying to monitor this person, who clearly has been at multiple locations, we believe, and the questions, of course, of whether or not they would be headed, for another one, right now.

CHARLES RAMSEY, FORMER WASHINGTON, D.C. POLICE CHIEF & PHILADELPHIA POLICE COMMISSIONER: Well, yes. I mean, this is a rapidly evolving situation, right now. They do have a photo out, which is good. They'll get help from the public, hopefully.

They're probably also scanning any video, to see if they can locate a vehicle. This individual is apparently mobile. I'm assuming there's only one shooter. But that distance between the first two locations would indicate that he had to be mobile. So, they're looking at whatever video, they can find, to try to match him, with a vehicle, put that out as well.

The primary thing, right now, is to find this person. A capture or kill, one or the other, they got to get him, and they got to neutralize him, and quickly as possible. He's already done an awful lot of damage. If the numbers are anywhere near what is being reported, this is a major, major mass shooting that's just taken place.

COLLINS: Yes. And the questions of -- and I should remind people what this video is now is something that we got from a resident, that they captured, on their phone. This is from Nicole Wen Arielle (ph) who posted this, so, I mean, she saw this large presence.

We've just gotten in a photo here, Chief Ramsey, of a car that we do believe is connected to the shooter. It has just been posted, online. Police are saying it's the suspect's car. You can see it's a small white SUV. I mean, what are the efforts, right now, to try to locate this car?

RAMSEY: Well, if they've got a license tag, they'll be putting that out. If you drive on the interstates, and you see the message boards, and if there's an Amber Alert or anything like that, they put that information out, for the driving public, that may not be aware, of what's going on, to be on the lookout, for that particular car.

If they do have a license tag, obviously, they've already run that tag. And they're trying to locate that individual that way. If there's a residence, or anything that they would need to be going to, right now, to try to locate this individual.

So, there's a lot going on behind-the-scenes. You've got shell casings at all the different sites. So, they're going ballistic checks, to see if they can identify whether or not it's the same weapon, being used, at all the locations.

More than likely, this is a case of an individual, who's highly mobile, and he's going to various locations. He's probably scouted them out before, to be able to move as quickly, as he's been able to move.

COLLINS: Well. And can I ask you? I mean, we're looking at this photo.

We don't know when this picture was taken. But Maine State Police have confirmed this is the suspect's car. What you can see here is the car is still on, the lights are still on. The door is still open. It's not clear where it's parked. But it's obviously a parking lot.

I mean, what are they reading from that, that he left the car on, while he potentially went into one of these locations?

RAMSEY: Well, he's been mobile. I mean, he has been going from point A to point B. And so, he's got the car running. I can't see it. I don't have return, right now.

But those are the kinds of things that will indicate that this individual is mobile. He wanted to hit this place, do as much damage as he could, in a shorter period of time, and then move to the next location.

This is a small jurisdiction. They're bringing in a lot of additional resources. But again, this is an average Wednesday night. I don't know what their deployment look like, before a department, that size, probably not that many cops. And so, he's taken advantage of response times, and all those kinds of things.

But now, they have the resources on the ground. And the hospitals have flown in doctors. They've taken victims, to hospitals, outside of town. So, they're doing everything they need to do, right now, to try to get a handle, on this situation, to save as many lives as possible. And the cops, right now, are just trying to identify this guy, and find him.


COLLINS: Yes. And we know the FBI has also marshaled its resources. They are trying to help.

A lot of questions about what this looks like. This is a breaking news situation, active shooter situation, happening in Maine, right now, in the City of Lewiston. Multiple locations, we are told 16 people have been killed. At least 50 to 60 have been injured. We are monitoring this situation.

We're going to take a quick break. We'll be back in just a moment.


COLLINS: We are covering breaking news, here this hour, as a shooter remains at large, tonight, in Maine, after there were multiple locations, where a shooting happened. We are told 16 to 17 people, at least, are killed. More than 50 to 60 have been injured.

As we are monitoring this, right now, the suspect is still at large tonight. The authorities have released photos, of this suspect. They've also released photos, of his car, the vehicle, that they believe that he is traveling in, right now, asking the public, for their help, in trying to identify this person. He's driving a small white SUV. They released this photo, just moments ago.


As we also saw at these two locations, one is a restaurant and a bar, the other is a bowling alley, you can see people fleeing the bowling alley, in this video, that we obtained, from a resident, in the area.

I want to go back to CNN's Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst, John Miller, who's been doing reporting, on this, and confirmed what that latest death toll is that we are still monitoring that.

And John, when you look at Lewiston, Maine, it's about 36 miles, north of Portland. It's the second largest city, in the State of Maine, but it's not that densely populated. It only has fewer than 40,000 people, who live there.

How are the authorities there, monitoring this, right now, and searching for this suspect, where it's been nearly two hours, since this first alert went out? And still, we have not received any word on whether or not he has been apprehended? Or what's the latest on that search for him?

MILLER: Well, Kaitlan, the development of having a photograph, of a car, believed to be connected to the suspect, is another positive step.

Your question, how are they dealing with this, as a Police department, in a 40-some-odd-thousand-person city is, it's a unified command system.

It's the Incident Command System, where somebody becomes the Incident Commander. That could be a State Police official. That could be the Lewiston Chief of Police, as the person, on the ground, who owns this incident. And then, everything falls under that. That means the other small towns that sent their people, they're under the command of the Incident Commander.

The State Police resources, the Fusion Center, they divide up into responsibilities, who's doing crime scene, who's doing witness interviews? Who is gathering SWAT teams, in case they have a location to hit, or a sighting, where they have an individual that needs to be stopped?

Unfortunately, as a country, we have too much experience with this. And that would be how they pull this together.

COLLINS: Yes. And when you look at the, what we heard, that the FBI is now marshaling resources, to also help, what role are they playing in this, right now, John?

MILLER: So, the FBI brings a raft of resources, to something like this. They can bring in behavioral science people, experts on active shooters. They can bring in ERT, the Evidence Recovery Team -- the Evidence Response team that can help process these crime scenes. And they can bring them in from multiple field offices.

One really important thing they do is they can bring in victim witness specialists, who can assist with family members, notifications, setting up a Family Information Center, where you have such a large pool, of both people, who are unfortunately deceased. And I think that number is going to go up, because of the condition that some of those, who were removed were in, as well as those who are injured.

So, the FBI is going to bring resources, including SWAT teams, including the FBI databases --

COLLINS: John, tell me what you mean by that.

MILLER: -- including technical experts.

COLLINS: You said you mentioned the condition of people who were removed. And what have you heard about that?

MILLER: When you have a multiple-person shooting, and very quickly, you learn that 16 people are dead, and many others were rushed, in different levels of injury and condition, to area hospitals, some of them farther away? You have to calculate into that, that there is a high likelihood that you may lose other victims, who can't be saved. And that's something that nobody wants to hear.

But, as I said, when we first reported those numbers, those numbers are expected to change. We haven't had an official update on that yet.

COLLINS: Well, as we wait for that update, I want to go back to CNN's Athena Jones.

Athena, obviously, we're looking at what is the distance, of these two locations. It's a restaurant, and a bowling alley. We've seen the video of people fleeing the bowling alley.

We do know this suspect has a car, because the authorities have just released the photo, of this small white SUV that he seems to be purportedly driving, or at least used to get to those locations.

How far apart do we know for these two locations?

JONES: Yes, Kaitlan. We do know that -- we know that the scanner traffic began just after 7, at that bowling alley, Sparetime Recreation. That is only about 10 minutes away, from the bar, the Bar & Grille. That is the second location, where Police are investigating this shooting.

Now, when it comes to that third location, that the Sun Journal newspaper, reported, the Walmart distribution center? That is just about three minutes away from the bar.

So, if you imagine this shooter, if they were acting alone, may have begun at the bowling alley, in only 10 minutes time, at least according to the map. And that's following the speed limit, and that sort of thing, very, very nearby, that person could have made it, in a vehicle, from the bowling alley, to this Bar & Grille.

And then, from the Bar & Grille, it's only just a few more minutes, about five minutes, to that Walmart distribution center that we're still waiting to confirm, as a third location, as reported by the Sun Journal.


So, it's glinting some -- some -- giving us some information, about what's possible, and whether or not -- we still don't know if there is more than one shooter. And we know authorities are only talking about this one shooter, having released the picture of him, and of his car. And it shows that because these locations are relatively nearby each other, it's certainly possible that one person could have carried these out.

COLLINS: Well, and John Miller, when you look at this photo that we have, from the authorities, I mean, what does it tell you about what location? Can you see -- can you glean anything, from the background, of which location this is, that the shooter is in, that we can see from this photo that has been given to us?

MILLER: It's most likely the bowling alley, because you see, he's right by the entrance, where the fire extinguisher is, but also the lockers, where people commonly put their shoes, and other things, when they check in. So, that seems to be where he started. And it would have been the first place that they would have been able to actually get video.

We're expecting to see an updated photo, from a different angle, where his face is not obscured, by the scope on the gun.


MILLER: Here it is, where you can see, he has a mustache, and a goatee, and a beard. And it's brown hair. But that is probably the best look we have, at his face, right now, or the closest anyway.

COLLINS: And former FBI Deputy Director, CNN Senior Law Enforcement Analyst, Andrew McCabe, is also here with us.

Andrew, when you look at this photo that John was just talking about there, you can see a clear image here, of the suspected shooter's face. What are authorities looking for when -- I mean, how long does it take them to figure out who this guy is basically?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes, Kaitlan, it's not an exact science.

There are some things you can do technically, with facial recognition, and against publicly available data sets. I'm sure they're taking advantage of that. If the photos not quite clear enough, the success with that can be a little bit spotty.

They are very much, I'm sure, relying on the crowdsourcing, and public calling in, and people who might recognize this person. So, the more photos they could get publicly released, the better off they are, in that, on that score.

But really, the big development here is the photograph of the vehicle. Once you have a vehicle that's associated with this person, you can track that vehicle, back through its registration, typically to the owner, or the operator. If not this guy? Specifically, to someone, who may own the car, and know who he is, or have loaned the car to him.

So, if they could put him in that car, which we presume they can, since that's the photograph, they're putting out? They should now have his identity. It's not surprising that they won't release that to the public, very quickly.

But once they have that, they can start to peel back things, like his telephone records, his email accounts, his social media accounts. And all of those electronic facilities, as we refer to them, can ultimately help track this person, to a location, where he can be interdicted.

COLLINS: And why do they wait to release the name?

MCCABE: Well, it's -- the crowdsourcing has pluses and minuses. And to release the name, right off the bat, before you take any covert investigative steps, in an effort, to locate him, without drawing the public, to his current location, is an effort, to take him into custody, safely.

This is somebody, who has allegedly just killed many, many people. You can understand that law enforcement is operating, at absolute peak intensity, right now.

Every tactical officer, who has to engage with him, on an arrest, whether that's five minutes from now, or five days from now, goes into that confrontation, knowing that they are dealing with a killer, who is either ready to die, or understands he's about to go to jail, for the rest of his life. So, you cannot possibly overstate the intensity and the danger inherent in that confrontation.

COLLINS: And tell me what you -- what we've learned from Athena is that the first Police scanner activity came from this bowling alley. And then, of course, we know we believe that he went to a restaurant. That's the second sight of the shootings that we believe that have happened tonight, as we're still waiting to learn details.

And we're still trying to confirm. But local news, a local outlet, the Sun Journal is reporting about a Walmart distribution center.

I mean, what is it -- what do you try to glean from those three locations?

MCCABE: Yes. So, it's interesting how they're laid out. The bowling alley is the northern-most location. It's about four miles north of the bar. And the bar is only about one and a half to two miles, depending on your route, from the Walmart distribution center, to the south.

So, it certainly seems that look, this guy has the jump, on everybody, at the bowling alley, right? No one is expecting this. There are no law enforcement reports, presumably until he's in the midst of shooting, or immediately after it. So, he's really got a little bit of time, to play with.


But as the night wears on, and his horrific acts start to catch up, with him, he knows that he's got less and less time, to be in this area. At some point, he likely has done this already, has to basically break from the Lewiston area, and get out into the very rural, dark, kind of remote areas that are immediately around Lewiston. This area is particularly rural. So it's going to be a place, where somebody knows the area --


MCCABE: -- and realizes that they need to get out of town. They're going to know how to do that pretty effectively, pretty quickly.

COLLINS: Yes. I mean, that's what makes this so much more challenging.

Andrew McCabe, stay with us.

Because, we are continuing to monitor this breaking news situation. Right now, still at large, in the State of Maine, a suspected shooter. We know there are multiple locations. What we have learned is there are at least 16 people, who have been killed, 50 to 60 more injured. The FBI is now involved. And President Biden has been briefed. We are continuing to monitor this situation.

Much more on the breaking news, right after this quick break.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.



And we begin, tonight, with the breaking news, out of Maine. Sources tell CNN that at least 16 people have been killed, dozens more are believed to be injured, after two mass shooting, at two separate locations, in Lewiston. That's about 35 miles north of Portland.

And an urgent manhunt is underway, right now. The suspect is not in custody. You see here, these are the pictures that were just released, of this suspect, armed, at one of those businesses. And, we are told, a restaurant and a bowling alley are the two locations, where these incidents occurred.