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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Speaker Mike Johnson On Passing Ukraine Aid: "We'll See"; Judge Threatens To Kick Trump Out Of Courtroom Over Disruptions During Defamation Trial Testimony; Video Shows Raid On Home, Baby On Ventilator Was Inside. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired January 17, 2024 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: And she is this picture of health. And quite surprised, really, quite shocked, really that she could potentially be vulnerable. With the experience of the Queen dying, not that far away in the memory.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Yes. Max Foster, thanks very much. Appreciate it.
That's it for us. The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: Tonight, straight from THE SOURCE.
House Speaker, Mike Johnson, is here, fresh off a high-stakes meeting, with President Biden, ahead of a looming government shutdown.
Plus, it was a contentious day in court, for Donald Trump, with the judge threatening to evict him from the courtroom, as the ex-President responded, quote, "I would love" that.
Also, body cam footage that was just released, from a police raid, is now under scrutiny, tonight, new scrutiny, after flash-bangs were used inside a home, where a toddler was on a ventilator. The mother is here with me, tonight.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
President Biden summoned leaders, from both parties, and both sides, of Capitol Hill, to the White House today, hoping to break a stalemate, over immigration and aid to Ukraine. But right now, that looks unlikely, in doubt at best.
Both parties say that they agree that something must be done on the border, that Ukraine is in desperate need of critical military assistance, and that Israel needs American help in its war against Hamas.
There's a deal potentially in the works, to unlock all of that. Senate leadership appears to be on board. But the holdup tonight is in the House, specifically with House Republicans. The new Speaker of the House is facing growing pressure, from his conference, as a growing number, in his party, on the right, say that his job could be at risk, if they don't like the deal that he makes.
And joining me now is the Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson.
Speaker Johnson, great to have you, on THE SOURCE. Thank you for being here.
You called this meeting today a productive one. But my question is where is the common ground, between you, and the Senate, and the White House, on immigration?
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): Well, we're about to find out. The Senate has been working on some sort of compromise bill.
The House passed our measure, H.R.2, about eight and a half months ago. It's been sitting on Chuck Schumer's desk, for a long time. It has key provisions in it that would actually solve the crisis, which is the open border and the humanitarian catastrophe that comes along with that.
So, we would reinstitute the Remain in Mexico policy. We would end catch and release. We would reform the asylum and broken parole processes, and even rebuild parts of the wall. But many of those elements are critical, in order to solve the problem.
And I articulated that to the President, again today, as I have been doing since I got the Speaker's gavel.
COLLINS: But of course, you know the White House and Senate Democrats say they are not going to pass H.R.2. So, where do you agree? Where can there be some movement here?
JOHNSON: Well, I think we had productive discussion, today at the White House, because I told them, it doesn't matter to me what you label it. I don't care if you call it H.R.2. But those elements are really important.
And I illustrated to the President, and to all of our colleagues that were around that table, that this is not Republican talking points.
We went down to the border, about three weeks ago. I brought 64 House Republicans down there, to see what's happening at Eagle Pass, which is kind of the epicenter, right now.
And the Border Patrol agents there, the sheriffs on the ground, the people who deal with it every day said that there's simple action that can be taken, right now. You don't even need new federal law. You need executive action to stem the flow.
And the Deputy Chief of the Border Patrol, who's a 33-year veteran of the agency, Kaitlan, told us, in his own words. He said, I feel like I'm administering an open fire hydrant. I don't need more buckets. I need to reduce the flow.
And so, we talked about in the White House, today, how that can be done. And the President has a very important personal--
COLLINS: But you--
JOHNSON: --executive role to play.
COLLINS: You agree that just executive action alone is not what you're looking for here, right? I mean, your job is to legislate, to pass legislation. So, if that's what you're seeking to do, I don't think the White House cares what you call it, either. It's what's in H.R.2 that they don't like.
And so, I think that's the question. What's the plan here? Because if the Senate is preparing to pass its own version, as soon as next week, of an immigration bill, are you going to put that on the House floor?
JOHNSON: Well, look, the devil's in the details. I don't yet know what they're going to propose. There's been lots of rumors about it. But I'm very hopeful that they will give us something meaningful, that is very close to what we've sent over from the House.
Again, the reason is not for politics. This is beyond Republican versus Democrat. This is about a serious catastrophe that almost nine out of 10 Americans understand is at an emergency level as something that must be addressed. That's what the polling says. Because they see what's happening.
Kaitlan, we have 302,000 people, encountered at the border, in December alone. We've had over 300 suspects, on the terrorist watch list, coming to the country. Fentanyl is the leading cause of death for Americans aged 18 to 49, right now, coming right over the border. I mean, human trafficking, it goes on and on.
COLLINS: Yes.
JOHNSON: People are coming from a 170 countries. We cannot continue what we're doing, right now.
[21:05:00]
COLLINS: And I should note, a lot of that comes through legal border crossings. But you said the devil is in the details here that you want to see what the Senate is offering. But then, why didn't you tell the Republican conference in a call the other day that that bill is dead on arrival, in the House?
JOHNSON: If the bill looks like some of the things that have been rumored? Of course, it's dead in the House, because it wouldn't solve the problem.
You can't just do pieces of this and leave, for example, parole untouched, leave the current broken parole process untouched. Because it's a giant loophole that would allow all these people to continue to come in. I mean, they're settling millions of people throughout the country. They're sending them through every community in America seemingly. And the American taxpayer is having to fund this. Do you know U.S. taxpayers are spending billions and billions of
dollars, on the housing and education and the healthcare and all the benefits that all these illegals are getting, when they come into the country?
COLLINS: But if there's--
JOHNSON: Kaitlan, this is not a sustainable situation. And everybody knows that.
COLLINS: If there's an agreement here, that Senate Republicans are behind, people like Senator John Cornyn, someone who by no means shares the same views on this, as President Biden, if they're in agreement on this, is that going to be something that you say no to?
Because House Republicans, are the ones -- you all took that trip to the border. You've said it's a crisis. I mean, what is the -- what's the takeaway, for the public, if you say no, to a bipartisan agreement that even Senate Republicans are behind?
JOHNSON: Kaitlan, we don't know who's with -- in favor of it. Because it hasn't been -- the text hasn't even been filed yet. There's been no vote in the Senate.
COLLINS: Well John Cornyn, John Thune, they've said that they--
JOHNSON: You and I, we're talking about hypotheticals.
COLLINS: --that they believe that this is one of the best agreements that you'd be able to get. And that they said that what you've said to your conference that maybe with a Republican president, you'd be able to get a better deal. They disagree with that, because they say, it's not going to get 60 votes in the Senate.
JOHNSON: If the best we can get does not solve the problem, and not stem the flow, then it will not be acceptable on the House side. And I have said that very clearly, from day one, we have to solve the problem.
This is not about getting political points, for one side or the other. It's about solving the problem that is now a crisis, for every community. Every state is a border state now, because people are going all across the country.
And by the way, when we were in Eagle Pass, we found out that 60 percent to 70 percent of the people crossing the border down there are single adult males, between the ages of 18 and 40. These are not huddled masses of families seeking asylum. These are individuals, single males, coming into the country, for we don't know what, OK?
This is serious business. The facts are alarming. And the American people are sufficiently, I think, alarmed by this. And they want us to make a change. So, Republicans and Democrats, both should come together and solve it. There's an outcry from Democrat mayors, around the country, in these so-called sanctuary cities.
COLLINS: But Speaker?
JOHNSON: Everybody knows we have to fix it.
COLLINS: And we've talked to mayors, where there's no denying this is a crisis.
But will you still be able to stand on that and say that the border is a crisis, if you reject an agreement from the Senate, a bipartisan agreement that they can get passed that Senator Mitch McConnell's on board with, John Thune, John Cornyn?
Will you still be able to say that the border is a crisis if you rejected a deal that maybe doesn't do everything that you wanted, but does do some stuff, to address the border?
JOHNSON: Kaitlan, you're asking me to address a hypothetical. I have no idea. It doesn't matter to me who votes for what.
COLLINS: But it's not a hypothetical.
JOHNSON: No, it isn't.
COLLINS: Because the Senate's going to pass something soon, they said.
JOHNSON: Because we don't know what the text is.
COLLINS: You know the general outlines of it, though.
JOHNSON: They said.
COLLINS: And you said it's already dead on arrival. So, I think there was some skepticism, among Senate Republicans, about whether or not anything that they put together and pass that you'd be willing to put on the House floor.
JOHNSON: No. I have been very clear, from day one, the day I got the gavel, we need certain elements, to make sure this is -- that the border situation is solved. That means to restrict the flow. Not based upon talking points, or hyperbole, or what Republicans say they want.
This is coming from the experts on the ground. We went down there to talk to the people in charge of administering this, the Border Patrol agents, the sheriffs in Texas, the people who live with this crisis, every single day. And they have asked us to ensure that this happens.
By the way, Kaitlan, by one way of example, they say that if the President himself would sign one executive order, and reinstate Remain in Mexico, that policy, it could stem the flow by 70 percent.
So, I asked the President, I asked President Biden, just the other day, on the phone, I said, why would you not do that, sir? This would solve a big part of their problem. You have it within your ability to do it.
COLLINS: But we're talking about legislation here.
JOHNSON: And he hasn't yet.
COLLINS: And you keep going back to executive orders.
But on the actual legislation that you, as House Speaker can do, it seems like what you're saying is that your position is what House Republicans want here or nothing, that there's no compromise to be made. Is that right?
JOHNSON: No. That's not what I'm saying, Kaitlan. What I'm saying is we have existing federal law on the books that Secretary Mayorkas has not enforced.
We documented 64 examples of the White House, President Biden's executive order, and his agencies taking action, to cause this catastrophe. I told the President that today, in the White House, in the meeting, with all my colleagues there.
And I said, Mr. President, you have created, you and your policies have created, the catastrophe we have, right now. And it is incumbent upon you, to fix it.
We need a combination. OK? But executive action is a huge and important part of this.
COLLINS: OK.
JOHNSON: And the President needs to take that action.
COLLINS: I find it notable, you keep pointing to executive action.
[21:10:00]
But today, when you came out of the White House, you also said that you understand the necessity of Ukraine funding. Does that mean that you believe you'll be able to get Ukraine funding passed?
JOHNSON: Listen. We all oppose Vladimir Putin, and the barbarism, and the aggression that he's shown there. And he must be stopped.
But what's happening in Ukraine, right now, that status quo cannot be maintained. That's unacceptable. We cannot spend billions of dollars without a clear strategy articulated.
And I told the President, in the meeting, today, again, as I've been saying, repeatedly, sir, you have to articulate what the strategy is. What is the endgame? What is the outcome of that that we're trying to achieve? And how will we have accountability, for the dollars, the precious taxpayer dollars of the American people? He talks a lot about--
COLLINS: Well when you were in the room with him--
JOHNSON: Yes.
COLLINS: --did you ask him those questions?
JOHNSON: I absolutely did. Exactly that way. And I said--
COLLINS: And what did he tell you?
JOHNSON: I said, Mr. President, you've just spent a lot of time here talking about the safety and security and the sovereignty of Ukraine. How about the safety, security, sovereignty of the United States? That's what our people are demanding first. That is the priority.
COLLINS: But when you asked him, to lay out his plans--
JOHNSON: I told him exactly that way.
COLLINS: --on Ukraine, specifically, what did he tell you? I mean, you were in there--
JOHNSON: I didn't--
COLLINS: --in the room with him.
JOHNSON: I didn't get any answers, today, Kaitlan. It was a round robin, where all the senators and the Chairman of the House, everyone got to say their piece. And then, the clock expired, and we ran out of time. We do not have the answers that we have been seeking, for Ukraine funding.
And I've been very clear, very forthright, I've been in good faith, from day one. I went to the White House, within hours of being handed the gavel, to be Speaker, back in late October. And I told them. I told the Secretary of State, the -- Jake Sullivan, the NSA. I told the Secretary Austin. I've told the White House, and the President himself. We need the answers that the American people are demanding and deserve.
COLLINS: But do you think ultimately--
JOHNSON: And they've not given it to us.
COLLINS: --you'll get Ukraine funding passed?
JOHNSON: We'll see. Look, I understand the importance, and I've said this clearly, understand the importance of Ukraine funding. I understand the threat that Vladimir Putin poses to the world order, and what he might do if he's not stopped.
But we have to be good stewards of the taxpayers' dollars. And I'm saying that the status quo there is not acceptable. And I think a large and growing number of the American people understand that we've got to be very serious about how they handle these issues.
I can't address hypotheticals, because we don't have it yet. But I think we'll have those details very soon.
COLLINS: Well we have seen the White House's proposal, on Ukraine funding, of course, paired with also funding for Israel.
But I do wonder about that, because a member of your conference said today that if you pass Ukraine funding, she will personally motion -- make the motion, to oust you, from your role, as House Speaker. That's Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene.
Are you worried about threats to your job like that?
JOHNSON: No, I have a job to do. We all have to do our jobs. Marjorie Taylor Greene is very upset, about the lack of oversight, over the funding and the lack of a -- articulation of a plan, as am I, all of us.
COLLINS: But she doesn't care about a plan.
JOHNSON: Many House Republicans feel that way.
COLLINS: She doesn't want any Ukraine funding. Period.
JOHNSON: Yes.
COLLINS: No matter what the White House says the plan is.
JOHNSON: I understand that. Yes, I've talked with her about it personally at great length. And she's made her position very clear.
We have to do our job. We have to continue to ensure that we're covering all these bases. And we'll see how all this shakes out. I'm not worried about that. I got a job to do here.
And we have to make sure that we get the answers that we've demanded. I don't think these are unreasonable answers and questions, by the way. These are very reasonable things we've asked the White House for. And they just haven't produced it.
COLLINS: Well, Jake Sullivan was in that meeting today and, from our readouts, was going through what Ukraine needs, and how immediate that need is. But I noticed there, you didn't say whether or not you definitely do think Ukraine funding will get passed.
Part of this entire funding conversation is whether or not there's going to be a government shutdown. Are you committed to avoiding a government shutdown, Speaker?
JOHNSON: Well, I think my actions have shown that we're trying to do the right thing. And that is to get the appropriations process completed.
We did have a very important innovation, here. And that we broke the what I call the Christmas omnibus spending fever. Every year, as long as I've been in Congress, and many years before, the Senate jam the White House, right before Christmas, with a 3,000-page piece of legislation that funded all the government, in one fell swoop, 1.7, 1.8 billion -- trillion dollars. We didn't do that this year. We broke it up.
So, we have the deadlines coming up. We're going to pass a continuing resolution, to allow a little bit more time, for that process to go forward, and keep the government operating. We have to demonstrate we can govern. And I think we will do that.
COLLINS: And no more CRs after this? Or is there a possibility that you may get down the road and have another CR?
JOHNSON: Well, I sure hope they're not necessary. Because I think all the appropriators are doing--
COLLINS: But is that a yes or no?
JOHNSON: --their work, right now.
COLLINS: Because you said, I sure hope not. But I mean you, as Speaker, can make the decision on that.
JOHNSON: Well, I can. But we shouldn't have to make that decision. Because by setting the dates now in March 1, and March 8, we'll have enough time, to get that process done. And I'm convinced that we will, because you have people on both sides, both chambers, who are working in good faith to finish that up. I think they will.
I think we'll be able to get our policy riders and our policy changes in that. And that was a very important part, for the House Republicans, to be able to achieve. And we cut some of the funding as well. We got another $16 billion carved out of that. And I think those are important steps for us to take.
[21:15:00]
COLLINS: Yes. We've heard a lot of complaints, from some lawmakers, Republican lawmakers, who've been on this show, about those CRs, and what that spending plan is.
But Speaker, let me ask you on the presidential race.
You have endorsed former President, Donald Trump, in the 2024 race. That's a change, from where you were, when he ran the first time around, back into 2016. You said then, that you believe he lacked character and a moral center.
I'm curious why your opinion on that has changed now, why you are now endorsing him.
JOHNSON: No, I did endorse President Trump, the first time around. Before I got to know him, before many -- the country got to know him, I just knew a little bit about his reputation and some things he had said.
Look, President Trump and I are very close. We work very closely together. I was one of his impeachment defense lawyers, as you know. You covered that whole saga. I was very close ally of his, in Congress.
I'm convinced he's going to be the next President of the United States that he will get a second term. And I'm very much looking forward to that happening. Because we need him to come in, and bring those policies back, to fix this country. COLLINS: How often do you talk to--
JOHNSON: And I think he's going to have the opportunity to do that.
COLLINS: How often do you speak to him?
JOHNSON: Pretty frequently now, yes, every, I don't know, few days or so.
He is very busy, right now, of course, with the -- just finished up the Iowa caucus. In New Hampshire, I think he's going to finish well. And I think on the Republican side, this nomination will be completed and locked up here pretty soon.
COLLINS: I mean, does he give you advice, on leading this fractious House Republican Party, as it is right now?
JOHNSON: No. We talk about policy. We talk about a lot of things that are pending for the country that his campaign and things that are going on.
I share with him things that I hear, from the grassroots. And having been on the ground, I've traveled to, I think, 15 states now, in the last 10 weeks, going to my colleagues' districts, and hearing from the people. And they're very excited about a change.
What's happening, right now, in the country, under the failed Biden administration, has been devastating to the people. There's not a single metric of public policy, that President Biden can point to, in his administration, to say that they've been successful. And everybody knows that.
And it doesn't matter what talking points, they say. The facts are stubborn things, as John Adams said.
COLLINS: That's interesting.
JOHNSON: And I think the people are looking at the facts.
COLLINS: That's interesting to me to hear you say that. I'm not surprised that you hold that opinion, of course. You are the Republican House Speaker.
But we've heard, from House Republicans, people like Congressman Chip Roy, who say that House Republicans have nothing to show, for what they've done that they've been the least productive.
JOHNSON: Yes. Chip's one of my -- one of my very good friends. And he and I've talked about this at length.
When he said that, he was discounting the fact that we only have the majority, in one chamber, in one house, of the legislative body here. The Senate, of course, is controlled by Chuck Schumer and the Democrats.
So, we passed some very important legislation, landmark legislation, including H.R.1, which is the energy bill that we passed. H.R.2, which is the Secure the Border Act. Things like that, that we've sent over are sitting on Chuck Schumer's desk.
So, we only have control over one house of Congress. And we don't have the White House and the Senate, so.
COLLINS: But doesn't that mean you have to compromise on things like immigration?
JOHNSON: Well, that's why I went to the White House, today, to talk that through. Of course, we have divided government. And that's what's required.
The Framers of the Constitution, and our system understood that it was going to take hard work, by both sides, and people with very different philosophical viewpoints. But to be able to sit down, in good faith, and work it out, to arm-wrestle over public policy, and reach a consensus that will move the ball forward, for the most people. That's what this process is about.
We don't always get what we want. And Chip and I share a lot of the frustrations. We surely would like to get a lot more. But I told him, Chip, remember, next January, totally different situation, because I think we're going to have a bigger majority in the House.
I think the Republican Party is going to retake the Senate. And I think we're going to have the White House as well. It'd be a very different day, and a very different set of policies, when we get to that point.
COLLINS: Yes. We've seen that before. We'll see what happens here.
Speaker Mike Johnson, thank you for your time. We look forward to having you back here, on THE SOURCE.
JOHNSON: Thanks a lot. Good to be with you.
COLLINS: Ahead here, another judge is now threatening to kick Donald Trump out of court. The former President, responding immediately, almost daring him to. High drama playing out, here in New York today. We'll tell you what happened, ahead.
Plus, police in Ohio are facing major questions, tonight, after they used flash-bangs, while raiding a home that ended up having a toddler, on a ventilator inside. The mother of that 17-month-old will join me, in just a moment, with new video of the incident.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:22:51]
COLLINS: Donald Trump just couldn't contain himself. Not exactly breaking news. But the former President clearly struggling, to maintain his composure, as he was inside a New York courtroom, today, with E. Jean Carroll, on the stand. Trump, at one point, goading the judge, who threatened to kick him out
of the courtroom, during this testimony, from the woman that he was found liable of sexually abusing, in the 1990s. She is now seeking $10 million in damages, for quote, "Lies" that she says have shattered her reputation.
Reporters, who were inside the room, observed Trump reacting physically and audibly, during Carroll's testimony, shaking his head, overheard saying things, and I'm quoting, what he was heard saying now, it is a witch hunt. It really is a con job. She's gotten her memory back.
Even reportedly, at one point, pounding the table, which elicited some tough talk from the judge here, Judge Lewis Kaplan, who said at one point, "Mr. Trump, I hope I don't have to consider excluding you from the trial... I understand you're probably very eager for me to do that."
Trump responded, "I would love it."
Judge Kaplan said back, "I know you would. You just can't control yourself in these circumstances, apparently."
The judge also losing his patience, with the behavior, of Trump's attorney, in the courtroom today, Alina Habba, at one point, telling her to sit down.
The ex-President continued to air his grievances, after the trial wrapped for the day, and he left the courtroom.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, 45TH U.S. PRESIDENT: He would rather have me miss the funeral. Or go to the funeral and miss the trial. And that's a nasty man. He's a nasty judge. He's a Trump-hating guy.
This is a person, I have no idea. Until this happened, obviously, I have no idea who she was. And nor could I care less.
I frankly am the one that suffered damages. I should be given money, given damages.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Former federal prosecutor, and CNN's Senior Legal Analyst, Elie Honig, is here, to break down everything that happened.
I should note, the funeral he's referring to there is for Melania Trump's mother. It's happening, tomorrow. The judge denied it, because the judge said, you don't have to be here, your presence is not required.
But, I mean, just this wild day, on just the second day of this trial, I wonder what your main takeaways were.
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: So, I just read the transcript, 200 pages. It's actually really interesting.
Three big ones for me.
[21:25:00]
Number one. I think E. Jean Carroll made a very powerful showing, about her emotional damages that she went through. She laid out for the jury, I think, in a very compelling fashion, this is what these comments did to me. This is how I suffered, had sleepless nights, was terrified.
Number two. I actually think Alina Habba -- look, she's not a courtroom technician. She had all sorts of problems, putting evidence. And she got lambasted by the judge a few times.
But on the topic of economic damages, I actually think she did a decent job, on cross-examination. She showed that there was a point in the 90s, when E. Jean Carroll had a thriving career, was making a lot of money. And then she was all but forgotten and unemployed. And then, this happened. And she came back into the public scene. Now, it's a cold-hearted claim, and it may backfire. But I think she made an effective argument that there's minimal if any economic damages.
And the third point is just watching Judge Kaplan control that courtroom. He is one of the tightest, most controlling, really, most effective judges. And watching him try to keep a lid on Alina Habba, and Donald Trump. And I think he did a really good job, of balancing their rights, to make their case, with keeping order in his courtroom.
COLLINS: That's really interesting, on this second point, about how maybe that's an effective comment to the jury, about how much money E. Jean Carroll has made--
HONIG: Yes.
COLLINS: --what her things are, what she's made.
The other point that they were trying to make also is how E. Jean Carroll felt, after Donald Trump talked to her.
HONIG: Yes.
COLLINS: And they brought up this moment, from our town hall with Donald Trump, which was the day after the court had decided this. And this is what, what happened there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They said she wasn't raped, OK? That was her charge. It wasn't.
COLLINS: They found that you sexually--
TRUMP: They did -- they found--
COLLINS: --abused her.
TRUMP: Oh, that was -- say what the -- they didn't -- they said, he didn't rape her.
COLLINS: They did not say--
TRUMP: And I didn't do anything else either. You know what? Because I have no idea who the hell she is.
(AUDIENCE LAUGHTER)
COLLINS: But, Mr. President, can I--
TRUMP: I don't know who this woman is.
COLLINS: --can I ask--
TRUMP: I have no idea who the hell -- she's a whack-job.
COLLINS: Mr. President.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: She said today, she felt worthless--
HONIG: Yes.
COLLINS: --when she saw those comments, and the crowd laughing at what Trump said about her.
On the flip side of Alina Habba's argument, how does a comment -- how does that play with a jury?
HONIG: I think it's so powerful.
We tend to think of juries and trials as these mechanical processes. Take my word for it. It's human beings. You are sitting feet away, from nine New Yorkers, in this case, seven women, two men, and they're taking note of this. And I think you can see that clip, and absolutely understand how that's humiliating to E. Jean Carroll, and I think they're going to take it into account.
By the way, Kaitlan, all of this is cumulative. The jury is entitled, under the law of this case, to take into account all the comments Donald Trump has made, over the last week, back to the town hall. And I think it's all going to build up.
COLLINS: We'll wait to see, got several more days of trial.
Elie Honig, thanks for reading that--
HONIG: Yes.
COLLINS: --200-page transcript, for us. Thank you.
We'll also be back in just a moment, so don't go away. Because this is someone whose name came up, at this trial, today. You've seen him here, on THE SOURCE, before. George Conway is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:31:32]
COLLINS: There was a moment, in that courtroom today, that we were just talking about, when E. Jean Carroll, who was on the stand, with Donald Trump staring her down, talked about how the idea of suing him came up. Apparently, it all started with a conversation that she had, at a party, with someone, who should be quite familiar to our audience.
The prominent conservative attorney, George Conway, who, as I like to remind everyone, was once in the running, to be Trump's Solicitor General, now turned a fierce critic. Safe to say that if he's back in the White House, he won't be in the running for that job.
George, but great to have you back.
I mean, this is a fascinating part of this, for people, who -- there's so much happening here, it's hard to pay attention. But you actually helped get the ball rolling on this case.
GEORGE CONWAY, CONSERVATIVE LAWYER: Yes.
COLLINS: Can you just walk me through how that happened?
CONWAY: Yes. I mean, what happened is that I met Jean Carroll by chance, within a couple of weeks of the -- of her article coming out, the article in New York Magazine that started all of this.
And I had written a piece, in The Washington Post, the weekend right after that story hit, basically saying, well, Republicans, if you believe Juanita Broaddrick, the woman who made a rape accusation against Bill Clinton? Well, you damn well better believe Jean Carroll, because she has contemporaneous witnesses.
She had two witnesses, who ultimately testified for her, at the trial, about how she, in 1996, told them about what had happened, at the Bergdorf Goodman store.
And it just so happened, I ran into Jean Carroll at this party. And she came up to me. I said, hello. She said -- I think she thanked me for the Op-Ed piece that I had written. And then, somehow the topic came like, you know, some people are saying I should sue. I don't know what -- I don't know. Does that make any sense to you?
And immediately, I mean, it popped into my head. Well, you've got a pretty good defamation claim here. The statute of limitations on the rape has run. But there's no question that if the rape happened, and it seems like you have corroborating evidence, it did? Well, he's liable to you, because he's called you a liar. And then I said, you know, I think I know the right lawyer for you.
And the next day, I contacted my good friend, Robbie Kaplan, and told her that, you know, Jean Carroll, I don't know -- I'm sure you've read about this in the paper. She may be interested in bringing a lawsuit. This might be something you might be interested in. And that's how -- that's how it all got started.
COLLINS: And of course, that is still her attorney, who was there in the courtroom, with her today.
CONWAY: Absolutely. She's a marvelous lawyer.
COLLINS: What would your--
CONWAY: Absolutely spectacular.
COLLINS: What did you make of -- what were your main takeaways, from what happened today, in that room?
CONWAY: Well, I think it's classic Donald Trump.
I think the judge, Judge Kaplan, who is really one of the smartest federal judges, in the country, and one of the toughest, but fair, he had it exactly right, when he said that, I guess you can't control yourself. He said that to Donald Trump.
Donald Trump cannot control himself. And I think this is an important point, that this case is actually a nice microcosm of psyche -- of Trump's psychological condition.
I think it's important that we start talking about that because all of the things that you hear criticism of Donald Trump for, the misogyny, the racism, the authoritarianism, the criminality, the conduct at Mar- a-Lago, all of these things, stem from his deep psychological disorders.
He is a narcissistic sociopath, and he behaved like one, in court. And the jury is getting to see that up close and personal.
And you saw it up close and personal in that -- personally, in that clip of the town hall, where Donald Trump continually just lie after lie after lie, before you can even say stop.
[21:35:00]
Three lies about Jean Carroll, just in that -- in those clips.
One is he said that he never met her.
Well, there was a photograph, of them meeting, back in the 90s. It was actually in the original New York Magazine article.
The second is he's claiming that oh, she's not my type, as though she wasn't good-looking enough for him.
Well, he, at his deposition, he identified the picture of this beautiful woman, in that same photograph, who was E. Jean Carroll. He said, oh, that's Marla Maples, my second life. I mean?
COLLINS: His wife.
CONWAY: And then the third thing he says is like, the jury didn't -- found that I didn't rape her.
That's not true. The jury found that he penetrated her, with his hands. And that's not technically rape, under New York law. But as the judge has said, three times, in written opinions since, including last week, Donald Trump raped Jean Carroll by any reasonable definition of that word in the colloquial sense.
COLLINS: Yes, they said, liable--
CONWAY: So, he's just a pathological liar. And I think that his--
COLLINS: Well--
CONWAY: --his self-defeating antics in court, I mean, that might work on the campaign trail, but it's not going to work in a courtroom.
COLLINS: So, you think--
CONWAY: And I think -- yes.
COLLINS: --it hurts him, to be in there, because he had kind of -- when I -- when we interviewed him, at that town hall, I asked if he regretted not testifying, because he had considered it, and his attorneys urged him not to.
CONWAY: Yes.
COLLINS: Now he's making clear he's going to show up every day, as much as he can, to this. And you don't think it helps him?
CONWAY: No, it doesn't. I mean, and it shows his remarkable cowardice, OK? He's fine to make snarky comments, and sotto voce comments, in front of the jury, and say, this is a witch hunt, and, oh, she's lying.
It's like, OK, well, dude, you had the opportunity, to actually face that first jury, and tell them that she was lying. And you chickened out. He, like most bullies, he's a coward. And he's just, he's taking the coward's way out.
And he's trying to play the victim. He's trying to get the judge to throw him out, and play the victim, because he's too scared to testify, because he's a liar.
COLLINS: Well, he said in court today that he would love if the judge did. We'll see what happens here, going forward.
CONWAY: Yes.
COLLINS: A lot more to talk about.
George Conway, thank you, for joining, tonight.
CONWAY: Thanks.
COLLINS: Also, tonight, to the police raid, it is now under scrutiny, after body cam footage was just released, in Ohio. This is following a raid, on a home that had a toddler inside, who was on a ventilator. Police set off flash-bangs, a mother says that it harmed her sick child. She'll join me, to talk about it, right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:41:16]
COLLINS: Today, officials in Elyria, Ohio, releasing body cam video, showing officers throwing flash-bangs, during a house raid, with both a mother, and her 17-month-old baby on a ventilator, inside.
Police were there to serve a warrant, on a teenage suspect, in a stolen weapons investigation that they've been conducting.
And these are the moments that we can show you now, police entering the home, deploying flash-bangs. I do want to warn you that what you're about to see, this video, it is difficult to see.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police, search warrant, come to the door.
Police, search warrant, come to the door.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Charge. Charge. Charge.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police, search warrant.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming down the stairs.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're going to admit it (ph) coming out with your hands up.
COURTNEY PRICE, MOTHER CLAIMING POLICE RAID INJURED HER 17-MONTH-OLD SON: My baby's right here. My baby's right here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK
PRICE: I'm coming down (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come to the door.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're good. Just come down to us.
PRICE: What's happening? My baby's in my bedroom (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come outside.
PRICE: My baby's on a ventilator in there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. (END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That woman you see there is Courtney Price, telling them her baby is inside the home. She was then searched.
She says that her child has since been diagnosed with chemical pneumonitis, a form of lung irritation that is due to inhaling gases caused by flash-bangs.
Police say that the baby was not exposed to chemical agents, or continuous burn.
And I should note, tonight, CNN has also obtained Ring doorbell camera video, from the home's front door, in the moments after the raid. About an hour, after the police entered, you can hear an unidentified voice, on the camera, on the video, saying this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whoa, it's the wrong house.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: "It's the wrong house."
I should note, we cannot verify who is speaking in that clip that you just heard. We are trying to do so now. We did receive a copy of the warrant. It does list the same address, as the home that the suspect, in the case, had moved.
With me now is the mother that you see, on that body cam video, Courtney Price, joining us, from the hospital, where she is, with her baby tonight.
Courtney, I just first want to say thank you for coming on. I can't imagine what the last few days have been like for you.
What was even going through your mind, when you heard the officers, at your door? You must have been so stunned.
PRICE: Yes. So, I didn't have -- it was very fast-paced. I didn't have time to process anything.
I remember, I heard a knock at the door. My sister had just left for work. And she told me that my uncle would be home soon. So, I expected him home. And I thought it was him, knocking on the door.
And then, I started walking towards the door. I can see through the glass, a bunch of police. And then, by the time I got to the steps, the door was busting open, the windows were busting open.
COLLINS: And I noticed in the video, you -- right to the -- to the officers, and your -- your first thing that you say is that that your baby is inside. But were you worried that if you picked him up, what would happen? Before you went to the door? PRICE: So, I wouldn't have had time to pick him up, because he was on his ventilator. It would have to be unplugged from the wall. It would have to be took off from the ventilator pole. And he would have to change to -- I would have to change his tube through (ph), it's a whole big thing. So, I wouldn't have had time to grab him.
COLLINS: And I should note, you're talking to me live, from the hospital, tonight. How's Waylon doing, first off?
PRICE: He is definitely on the mend. He is breathing a lot better. His eyes are a lot better. We still don't know when our discharge will be. But he is on the mend.
COLLINS: We heard from the police department. And they said "Any allegation," and I'm quoting them now, suggesting that the child, Waylon, "was exposed to chemical agents, lack of medical attention or negligence is not true."
I just wonder what your response to that is.
[21:45:00]
PRICE: So, in one of the body cam footages, you can see them hit the window with the flash-bang. They dropped the flash-bang outside. But you see the smoke entering into the window.
Waylon is on an oxygen concentrator. This is -- the doctors' thought process is the chemicals have gotten into his oxygen concentrator, and pushed it into his lungs, or he has just sat there, and it held it through his mouth.
COLLINS: And what have the doctors said about the effects that they believe that this could have on him?
PRICE: We still don't know. We know his lungs. He was born very premature. So, he already have vision issues. He has hearing issues. He is scheduled on the 22nd to -- for them to go in, and get a better look at his ears. It's still to be determined to look at his lungs and eyes. In each procedure, he has to put -- be put to sleep, and it's more like a surgery. So, we have to plan them out.
COLLINS: Courtney, I think a lot of people agree that it's unbelievable, what you and what Waylon went through. And we hope you get the answers that you're seeking. We're here to help. And just thank you for coming, and talking about it, tonight. We wish you the best.
PRICE: All right. Thank you so much.
COLLINS: And thank you so much.
And we'll continue to update you, on that story.
Also, tonight, we're following the latest, in the 2024 race. Donald Trump is in New Hampshire, right now. He is turning up his attacks, on Nikki Haley, ahead of the primary there, next week. Things were getting ugly already. The question is how much uglier they'll get, between now and Tuesday.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:50:36]
COLLINS: As we speak, former President Donald Trump is at a rally, in New Hampshire, tonight, following his dominant win in Iowa. He is now ramping up his attacks, on Nikki Haley, who polls have shown has been gaining ground, on Trump, in New Hampshire, ahead of next Tuesday's first-in-the-nation primary.
Joining me tonight, Ashley Allison, who was the National Coalitions Director for the 2020 Biden-Harris campaign.
Also, with us is Republican strategist and pollster, Lee Carter.
And Lee, I want to start with you, because I do wonder what your -- what you make of what Trump's tactic has been. I don't think it's surprising, he's going after Nikki Haley.
LEE CARTER, FORMER REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST & POLLSTER: Yes.
COLLINS: She's -- they're the most worried about her, at this point.
But the way he's doing it? For the first time that I've ever seen him do, referring to her by her name, Nimarata, which she doesn't go by.
CARTER: Right.
COLLINS: She goes by Nikki, obviously.
But doing that, of course, this comes from someone, who we have seen what he's done in the past, with Vice President Harris, with President Obama, making very clear, what his intentions are.
CARTER: Yes. I mean, it is -- I don't want to say it is what it is, or he is who he is. It's the kind of tactic that he like loves to use.
And a lot of people get really offended by him. But his supporters love it. They love that he's tough. They love that he's a fighter. They love that he's a bully. They love that he's feisty. They think that he's going to go down to -- back into the White House, and blow things up. And that is just fine with them.
And these kinds of attacks work with Republican-Trump supporter voters. And it's hard to understand.
COLLINS: So, you think this will be effective in New Hampshire?
CARTER: I do think it's going to -- well, New Hampshire is its own animal, right?
ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.
CARTER: Because New Hampshire has got a lot of moderates. And it is very, very different. But I think one of the things that he's talking about, in addition to
the all the attention that we're giving to what he called her, her name, he also is going about, she's not tough enough to handle what we need to. And that I think is really important.
Because 82 percent of voters out there say they want to fighter. 82 percent of his voters say they want to -- they want a fighter. And so, I think that is what he's playing into.
ALLISON: Well I think he's playing into misogyny and racism, with his comments, which is not a foreign construct to Donald Trump. You just mentioned what he did to Donald -- or to President Obama and Vice President Harris.
And not to mention all of the policies he had, during his administration, starting with the Muslim ban, and separating immigrants, from mothers and children, or using derogatory language to talk about COVID, which led to a spike, in hate crimes, towards Asian- American individuals.
He is not new to waging war almost against, the other. And it is something that his supporters like. And the question is why? Because Donald Trump is playing to a fear, for a lot of White Americans, right now, to say like, we want to make America great again, and make this our country again.
Which is why it's so frustrating that when Nikki Haley had an opportunity to be tough, and actually call him out this week, and on the history of our country? She totally cowered to the base of his party, in saying we aren't -- we -- our country was never racist. My party is not racist.
COLLINS: Can we play that soundbite?
ALLISON: The leader of your free -- of your party is literally using a racist undertone, by calling you by your name that you don't even go by, because of racial undertone.
COLLINS: I'm glad you brought that up, because that's a moment that stood out to me, on the campaign trail, too.
It's not just Nikki Haley, who -- she went out of her way, when brought this up. She was even about it, on the Fox News interview. But Ron DeSantis was asked by Wolf about it. This is what they both said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NIKKI HALEY, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're not a racist country, Brian. We've never been a racist country.
I faced racism, when I was growing up. But I can tell you, today is a lot better than it was then.
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL), (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The U.S. is not a racist country. And we've overcome things in our history.
I think the Republican Party stands for merit and achievement and colorblindness. That is what we should stand for.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: What do you make of those two answers? Two very different answers, I should note.
CARTER: They're very, very different answers.
But I think one of the things that has happened, right, is Republicans have taken so many -- so many hits, for being the racist party. So, I think they -- whenever they can, they deflect it.
And I think there's reasons why. And you're talking about the reasons why they -- that Republicans have been called the racist party. But they will just deflect it, and push it away, because they want no association with it, because to them--
COLLINS: But does that work?
CARTER: -to them, and to the Republicans, they are not racist. They don't believe that we're a racist country.
COLLINS: Right.
[21:55:00]
CARTER: They know that there's work to be done. But they don't believe that we are a racist country.
ALLISON: But you--
CARTER: And they don't want to be labeled as such.
ALLISON: But you can't solve a problem, if you won't address it.
And, I mean, it's -- hearing it from Ron DeSantis. Ron DeSantis is the leader of the culture wars. He's the person trying to erase Black history, from curriculum. And it might be actually why he's dragging so low in the polls, is because Americans understand the history of our country, and they don't want that kind of divisive politics.
So, I'm not surprised with the three of them, in the way they're taking it. But it's not a winning strategy, for the general, and it's undermining a lot of the populations that they are going to need to support them.
COLLINS: Ashley Allison, Lee Carter, thank you both.
CARTER: Thank you.
COLLINS: Up next, Arnold Schwarzenegger was detained at an airport overseas. A source close to him says it's an incompetent shakedown. What happened? Ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Was Arnold Schwarzenegger shaken down, at an airport, today?
[22:00:00]
That is what a source close to him is alleging, tonight, after the former California governor, and movie star, was detained by Customs, for more than two hours, in Munich, for allegedly failing to declare a luxury watch, upon arrival. A watch, I should note, that he owns, according to this source. That source that says the actor was brought to a bank, to prepay potential taxes, on the timepiece.
But The Terminator does not appear to be two-faced by what happened to him. He posted this picture afterward, feeding a cookie to his pet pig.
We'll keep you updated on that important story, and all of them.
Thank you so much, for joining us, for this busy new hour.
A brand-new episode of "KING CHARLES" starts right now.
