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The Source with Kaitlan Collins

Kansas City Mayor After Parade Shooting: "Nothing Is Safe"; Hearing Tomorrow In Trump Effort To Disqualify D.A. Fani Willis In Georgia Election Subversion Case; Democrats Flip George Santos' Congressional Seat. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired February 14, 2024 - 21:00   ET




ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: That's it for us. The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now. See you, tomorrow.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: And tonight, straight from THE SOURCE.

The Super Bowl celebration, turning into a scene of sheer terror, in Kansas City, tonight, dozens wounded, in another mass shooting in America. And many of those shot are children, the youngest, injured today, just 6-years-old.

Also tonight, new at CNN reporting on, that cryptic warning, where a top intelligence official, in Congress, called it a national security threat. That threat we have learned concerns Russian nuclear weapons in space, as some lawmakers, on Capitol Hill, say it is so serious, it should be declassified and made public.

Also, it is a critical 48 hours, for Donald Trump, starting now, with hearings, in two of the criminal court cases about to collide, along with an imminent ruling, on business fraud that could cost the former President, hundreds of millions of dollars.

I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.

We start with breaking news, tonight. After what started off as a jubilant celebration, of the Kansas City Chiefs' Super Bowl win, ending with one person dead, and nearly two dozen shot, nine of them kids. Kids. Hospitals in the area say that at least 29 people are being treated, for injuries.

And the gunfire started near Kansas City's Union Station, sending thousands of fans, players, coaches, their families, all running for cover. I should note that officials say tonight all of the Chiefs players and staff are safe.

In the meantime, authorities say that three people have been detained, and they have also recovered weapons from the scene. One person was apprehended by good Samaritans, tackled, and held by others in the crowd, until the police arrived.

There are still a lot of questions, tonight, about how this started, and what happened here, what the motive is.

Kansas City's Mayor though, this evening, really saying exactly what is on a lot of people's minds, right now.


MAYOR QUINTON LUCAS, (D) KANSAS CITY, MISSOURI: What you saw happen was why people talk about guns a lot. We had over 800 officers there.

And there still is a risk to people.

Regular people living each day, have to decide what we wish to do about it. Parades, rallies, schools, movies. It seems like almost nothing is safe.


COLLINS: And this just in, from the Chiefs tight end, Travis Kelce, tonight, saying quote, "I am heartbroken over the tragedy that took place today. My heart is with all who came out to celebrate with us and have been affected. KC, you mean the world to me."

Starting us off tonight is Dana Brady, who was at that parade, with her 14-year-old daughter, Madison (ph).

And Dana, I'm just so glad that you're safe, and that you're able to join me tonight.

And I know a lot of this happened really quickly. But can you just walk us through what you saw, and what happened at the parade today.

DANA BRADY, ATTENDED PARADE WITH HER 14-YEAR-OLD DAUGHTER: As we were getting ready to leave, we heard what we thought was fireworks. And then it stopped. No one seemed to be frightened.

We looked around. And as we headed in the direction where we heard what we thought were fireworks, about after a minute or so of walking, there was a crush of people, running towards us. And someone was screaming, shots were fired, shots were fired. He's been hit.

And so, I grabbed my daughter, and put her in front of me, so that I could shelter her, since this was coming from behind. And we started running towards Union Station, to try to escape whatever was happening behind us.

COLLINS: And then, you got to Union Station. You had your daughter with you. And what happened from there?

BRADY: We had to jump the concrete barriers, because they had blocked everything, so that the Chiefs could be protected. And there were multiple people hoisting us up. There was a police officer yelling for us to make way and make room. And when we got inside, we thought maybe we were in a place that would be safer.

But I knew that because it was right off of the street, I wanted to go somewhere deeper into Union Station. So, I went downstairs, with my daughter, and I thought we had found a safe place. But then, another woman, with her children, small children, came running and screaming, they're shooting, they're shooting.

So, I grabbed my daughter, again, and we barricaded ourselves behind some doors near an elevator area, for a while, as we could hear people shouting in the background. We had no idea what was happening outside.

COLLINS: And then, when you -- when you left that area, I mean what did you -- what did you see, when you were back outside?


BRADY: The elevator started to move. So, we rushed out of there, because we just didn't know. You just don't know, in those moments, what exactly is happening. You've seen everything on the news. And you don't know what you're going to face.

And we found a side door, when we heard the elevator moving, and we were afraid what was going to be on it. And there was a police officer, who saw me peek my head out, and he motioned us to come over. And then, they moved us into an area, where they were holding other people, and told us we needed to shelter in place, until they were sure that the area was secure.

COLLINS: It must have been such a relief, to see that--


COLLINS: --it was an officer and not what you -- what you feared, or what you just didn't know.

BRADY: It was that the mother that I was with, in that area, where we were sheltering in place, she had small children, and she was holding them close to her. And one little girl was crying. And her son said, what do we do mommy? And she said, well remember what they teach you in school, about sheltering in place if there's an active shooter.

And it struck me that when I was a kid growing up, I wasn't taught how to shelter in place, with an active shooter. We had things like tornado drills. We didn't have what to do, if somebody comes in, seeking to kill you.

And it was just such a surreal experience. You never think it's going to happen to you, or in your environment. And it was terrifying.

COLLINS: It's so chilling, to hear you -- to hear a mom have to tell her young kids, just think about what you've learned at school. They've been in those -- that they're trained to be in an active shooter situation.

BRADY: Right.

COLLINS: I mean, your Madison (ph), she's just 14-years-old. I saw the two of you together, earlier, right after when you were -- when you were talking about this. I mean, she's one of those kids, who's probably grown up, learning these active shooter drills. How's she doing, right now?

BRADY: I've never seen her face so afraid. And she is shell-shocked.

I think where in the past, we would have never even really given much of a thought, to going into public places? She just kept repeating, you know, mom, I'm really glad we did this. But I was so terrified. I'm really glad we did this. But I was so terrified.

And I wonder now, as we look at the future, whether or not we will stop and think, I don't know if I want to go there, because I don't know if I'm safe.

COLLINS: I think a lot of parents are probably feeling that way, because, and there were so many children and families there.

Dana, I just--

BRADY: Right.

COLLINS: --I'm glad you're OK. I'm glad Madison's (ph) OK. And thank you, for coming on, to talk about that tonight.

BRADY: Absolutely, thank you.

COLLINS: Really appreciate your time. And so glad you guys are safe.

For more, on what we're learning, from officials, as they are still piecing together what happened here today. Donell Harvin is joining us now, the former Washington D.C. Chief of Homeland Security and Intelligence.

And I'm so glad to have you, because we do have this new video, where you can see it on the scene, there's a witness, who just was talking to Anderson, in the last hour. And he said that he saw a guy running away. He said potentially a shooter. Obviously, he's a witness. Things are chaotic. Who had his jaw shot off.

What do you see? And what are officials looking for, in video, like what we're looking at right now?

DONELL HARVIN, FORMER D.C. CHIEF OF HOMELAND SECURITY & INTELLIGENCE: Well, your last person that that -- the mom that just talked really--


HARVIN: --typifies the chaos that happens in these type of scenes.

You hear shots. You don't know what direction they're coming from. You see people running.

That individual that was running could be a victim. He could be a perpetrator. He could just be someone that's running from the gunshots. Often, what we -- what we see, in the first couple of hours, of something like this, as we try to piece together the facts, may lead us to something that's not actually the truth. And so, what investigators are doing, right now is they're going through the CCTV -- CCTV. They're asking, as you've seen all day, for any individuals to come forward with photos or videos, a lot of people out there, taking videos or photos, with their cameras, to try to piece together what's going on, and try to fit individuals that they believe may be perpetrators to the crime.

COLLINS: Yes. And they've got these three people, who are detained. But we haven't really heard much else about why they're detained or what they expect to come out of that. I mean, what are -- what are they looking into that into whether or not--


COLLINS: --this was targeted? Whether or not this was, you know, whether it wasn't intentionally, going after and trying to cause a mass shooting? Whether it was contained? There was fighting reported to be between several people.

What are authorities looking at when it comes to that part of this?

HARVIN: Yes, and this is -- the problem with this type of incident, it runs the spectrum, right? This is what we train first responders for. When you have a densely-packed, what we call, crowded spaces, like this, celebratory spaces, expect -- plan for and expect for the worse.


And so, it could be simply -- simple as a interpersonal conflict or violence that started with two people, maybe a third person got involved, or fourth person that they're still looking for, who knows? All the way to the worst-case scenario, which is an actual planned attack

What they're looking for specifically is they have weapons that they've recovered. So, there's going to be evidentiary information, from those weapons, DNA, powder residue. They try to link that with any individual they may have in custody, or that may be at large. They also want to look at shell casings. So, that's a big part of the crime scene that's going on, right now.

Individuals who, once again, CCTV, individuals may be caught on camera, fleeing the scene. It's hard because you have so many people running, you don't know if people are victims, or you don't know if they're perpetrators.

COLLINS: Yes, it's a difficult part of this. We know the ATF is involved, when you mentioned the shell casings there. We'll continue to monitor this and get your expertise.

Donell Harvin, thank you, for jumping on with us, so quickly, tonight.

Also, here is Jennifer Mascia, CNN Contributor, and Writer for The Trace, a news outlet focused exclusively on gun violence.

Sad to say, this is now the second time that we've been talking, about an incident, like this, this week.

But when you -- when you look at this, and you're dealing with the big picture that he was just talking about, there, of what they're trying to piece together. It's almost impossible, to totally secure something, like a Super Bowl celebration and a parade like this. Even though we are told there were 800 officers on the scene, in an attempt to act as just that, a deterrent.

JENNIFER MASCIA, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: That should show you that you could have good guys with guns there, again, 800 officers.

Missouri also has very little regulation on gun carry. And private sales are legal. So, you can buy a gun with no record, and carry it in public.

I'm willing to bet there were armed civilians there. And still, that was not enough of a deterrent, to stop something like this. At that point, those officers are just there to--

COLLINS: Like what we saw happened at the megachurch on Sunday?

MASCIA: Exactly. Like, you can have police there. But when they intervene, people might already be dead, which sadly, this is what we saw. And also we saw, almost two dozen people injured, nine of them children.

COLLINS: And you were saying?

Well, first on that.


COLLINS: I mean, I -- what struck me about that is one that it's children just going to see, maybe their favorite team, at a Super Bowl parade.


COLLINS: And also the fact that it's, today's February 14th. It's the sixth anniversary of the Parkland shooting.

MASCIA: It's not just the anniversary of the Parkland shooting, which makes this even more tragic.

It's also the 16th anniversary of the Northern Illinois University shooting, which is a shooting that five people were killed, 21 wounded.

We have so many devastating mass shootings in America, that people forget these shootings. They actually get memory-holed. We have 74 days, in this country, with multiple mass shooting anniversaries. I can't think of any other country where that is true.

And sadly, Valentine's Day, there were five, now five mass shootings, on Valentine's Day, in the last 100 years. COLLINS: I want to get back to what you said about Missouri, and their gun laws. You wrote that they have the most permissive gun laws, gun access laws, in the nation, that they actually rolled them back, in what officials believed would prevent incidents like this, by having those other people there, who had access to guns.

MASCIA: Their rationale, and of course, this is part of the Republican Party platform now, their rationale is let's make it as easy as possible for people to get guns, so people are armed when these things happen.

We see how quickly they happen. We see that police are on scene. It's not necessarily a guarantee, and maybe not worth rolling back, all of our gun regulations.

I mean, Missouri is a Second Amendment sanctuary state. So, they actually -- they passed a law, couple years ago, that seemed to prohibit federal and state law enforcement officials, from working together, on cases, that might be viewed as infringing on someone's Second Amendment rights.

COLLINS: Wait. Say that again.

MASCIA: Yes. So, they passed a law, a Second Amendment sanctuary law that says, you -- the state and local law enforcement officials cannot actually enforce a federal gun control law, because it might--

COLLINS: So even if Congress passed?

MASCIA: If they pass a new law.

COLLINS: Well people always call for Congress to pass new gun laws. Even if Congress passed a law?


COLLINS: In Kansas City, where this happened today, they would not be able to enforce that law?

MASCIA: Correct. Well, first of all, cities in Missouri can't enforce their own gun laws. Only the state legislature can do that. Cities like Kansas City and St. Louis, which have very high rates of gun violence, have been trying.

And we did see a little frustration on the part of the Mayor today, because he's been trying to get tougher gun laws in his city. The state legislature won't allow it. They won't allow anything that could be seen as infringing on Second Amendment rights. And we see that has serious public safety implications.

COLLINS: Jennifer, thank you for joining. We'll continue to monitor this, as we do learn more about what guns were used in this. I know you're following that as well.

MASCIA: Yes. COLLINS: Also tonight, on Capitol Hill, the U.S. has new intelligence, about Russia's military capabilities, specifically related to nuclear capabilities in space. We've learned about this, after a cryptic but bombastic warning, delivered from Capitol Hill. What we are hearing from sources tonight.


Plus, there's even more breaking news, this hour, as the Special Counsel, Jack Smith, has now responded to Donald Trump's immunity claim to the Supreme Court, as we enter a critical 48-hour period, for the former President.


COLLINS: We're learning more information, tonight, about this new intelligence that first came in the form of a cryptic message today.

Sources are telling CNN that U.S. intelligence has now notified Congress, and key U.S. allies, about Russian military capabilities, related to their efforts to deploy a nuclear anti-satellite system into space.

Sounds pretty frightening, particularly with Vladimir Putin's finger on that switch.

And U.S. officials say tonight that this system is underdeveloped that it's not yet in orbit. But here's what they caution. They don't know how far this Russian technology has progressed.

That new information follows a warning, seemingly out of nowhere, this morning that kind of stopped everybody in Washington.

It came from the Republican Chair of the House Intelligence Committee, Mike Turner, who announced and I'm quoting his statement that there was a "Serious national security threat." And he was asking President Biden to declassify information about it.


That announcement ignited a firestorm, in the Capitol. And shortly after, we heard from Congressman Jim Himes, who is the top Democrat, on that same committee, who said he agreed the matter is serious. But he also urged calm, alongside the House Speaker, Mike Johnson.


REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): I want to assure the American people, there's no need for public alarm.

Steady hands are at the wheel. We're working on it. And there's no need for alarm.


COLLINS: Former Republican congressman, Adam Kinzinger, who is also a military veteran, and CNN Senior Political Commentator is here.

And Congressman, I mean, you obviously served with Chairman Turner, for over a decade. You said you've never seen a statement like his, that you've never known him to be dramatic, or use serious issues for anything but serious what -- reasons. You said "If he's concerned, I'm concerned."

I mean, what do you think it is about this, that has him so concerned?

ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, let's be clear. I don't know, because obviously, I didn't get this briefing. But it appears that this is probably gone from theory, to a belief, that this is either close to actually being deployed, or that Russia has the ability, to deploy this now.

And it's very serious, because think about it this way. The United States -- not just our own personal lives, but the United States military is so reliant, on satellite technology, not just for looking and spying, and things like that, and keeping watch, but early warning. So, this is how we know if we have a nuclear missile launch, to get against us, because of our early warning satellites.

The entire GPS system, as an example, I mean, imagine not just figuring out how to get to a place, in your car, and pulling out an atlas again. But the U.S. Military, which is driven on GPS system, it could be a very serious thing.

So, my guess is Mike Turner's audience was probably Congress, to say, guys, you got to come in here and see this stuff, it's very serious, especially with some of these intelligence things up for reauthorization, like what's called Section 702. I think that was part of it.

And probably a feeling among Mike, that maybe the administration isn't taking this seriously enough, for the Intel community. I don't know. But he's a very serious person. And he's not the kind that would do this for political reasons.

COLLINS: Yes. And I should note, Jake Sullivan, also the National Security Advisor, seemed surprised by his statement. He said he's briefing the Gang of Eight, the party leaders from both different parts of Congress, tomorrow.

But what Chairman Turner is asking for here is for this to be declassified, that this information, he says, should be openly -- be able to be openly discussed.

From what you know, in the briefings that you did get when you were on Capitol Hill, obviously, there's concern sometimes that it could cut off valuable sources. We've heard that from people, like Senator Marco Rubio, tonight.

I mean, what's your sense here of whether or not it would be helpful to make it public?

KINZINGER: Yes, I mean, look, just kind of generally, something like this would be important. Look at it. We've got -- we've got a number of things, we're facing, right now.

There's a significant number of people, unfortunately, in the Republican Party. And I saw some vote against this aid package, even on the left, that don't understand the real threat that Russia poses to us. They maybe look at Ukraine, and say, we don't want to spend money there. They don't understand the fact that Russia is a consistent and persistent threat, as well as China.

So, I think it's important to get that out there, to keep people focused, on the fact that, yes, we have to fight terrorism, the Houthis et cetera. But yet, we have this peer-to-peer competition in the next, frankly, century, we're going to have to deal with. Space is a big part of that.

Keep in mind, Russia is losing the space fight. So, it is nothing to think that they wouldn't just basically destroy access to orbit, and destroy the satellites, because that would harm us way more than it would harm them.

And lastly, I'll say, here's a thing that I have a concern with. Elon Musk. So, we have -- I'm not against private sector, helping get us to space, and in some cases, being part of our defense strategy. But Elon Musk has been out there, very openly, showing affection to Russia. He just did a space on Twitter, where he was saying there's no way Ukraine can win, which is garbage.

And this is a guy that has made his living, as a contractor, for the United States government, and is a significant part of our defense strategy, particularly with space. This is something that as a government, we have to take very seriously. We have an openly sympathetic man to Russia, and Russia's aims in Ukraine.

COLLINS: Well the government gives him a lot of deference.

KINZINGER: That is basically a significant part of our defense.

COLLINS: I mean.

KINZINGER: They do. They do.

COLLINS: Ronan Farrow's report, in The New Yorker. We had him on the show. He said it was that they were -- the government was checking things that they could say to him, with Elon, before they said them, the things to, to Ronan, the reporter.

KINZINGER: Yes, I mean, this is, it's a huge problem. We've become a soft oligarchy in this country, where just a few people hold not just a ton of money, but now, in this case, in essence, our access to space, our ability to put satellites in space. It's a concern.


I get it. Look, I'm not against Elon having a role in this at all. But I am concerned with his open affection to Russia. And this is something the government has got to say, look Elon, if you want to be a contractor to us, we've got to make sure you're loyal to the foreign policy of the United States, or at least not hostile to it

COLLINS: Congressman Adam Kinzinger, thank you, for your time, tonight.


COLLINS: Also, I just want to go back, breaking news here, as we were just talking about what happened in Kansas City.

We are hearing, from President Biden. He just issued a statement, on this, saying, quote, in part, "For this joy to be turned to tragedy today in Kansas City cuts deep in the American soul. Today's events should move us, shock us, shame us into acting."

The President asked, "What are we waiting for? What else do we need to see? How many more families need to be torn apart?"

He said "Jill and I pray for those killed and injured today in Kansas City, and for our country to find the resolve to end this senseless epidemic."

Up next here, we are just getting a filing in, this evening, from the Special Counsel, Jack Smith, responding six days early, to Trump's filing to the Supreme Court. What he said in that filing?

It is the beginning of a consequential 48 hours, when it comes to Trump's trials in New York and Georgia, and a major decision expected, when it comes to what's at the heart of Trump, his businesses.


COLLINS: New, tonight, as Special Counsel, Jack Smith has now responded, to the Supreme Court, urging the justices to reject the argument, from the former President, and his immunity claims, and delay tactics, in his federal election interference case.


This response came six days before it was actually even due, a clear sign that Jack Smith wants to get that trial underway.

CNN's Chief Legal Correspondent -- Affairs Correspondent, Paula Reid is here with the details.

Also, CNN Legal Analyst, and former Chief Assistant D.A. in Manhattan, Karen Agnifilo Friedman (ph).

Great to have you.

Paula, obviously, we were expecting this. But this came really quickly from Jack Smith.

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Yes. We expected him to move quickly. And he did. It's likely that he's contemplating Friday's conference at the Supreme Court. He wants them to be talking about this. COLLINS: Yes. And so what's next here? What's the next move?

REID: So, how quickly does the Supreme Court weigh in here, right, because Jack Smith is asking them effectively to move it along.

He's saying, look, we don't believe he has immunity. Everyone agrees that he's probably not going to win on the merits. So, he's not entitled to a pause. And Jack Smith says, look, let us get on with this trial. But if you must take this up on the merits, at least do oral arguments in March, and move this along, as expeditiously as possible.

So now, we're looking not only at what the Supreme Court does, but how quickly do they do it. Even if they do decide they want to take up this case, consider it on the merits, will they move on that expedited timeline? Or will they drag this out?

Because if they drag it out, it's unlikely that Jack Smith is going to be able to bring his case before the election. And that's significant, he says in this filing, because the nation should be able to see the resolution of this case, he argues. But also, if Trump is reelected, Jack Smith, and this case, will likely no longer -- he will no longer exist in that job.

COLLINS: Yes, even if he loses on the merits, at the Supreme Court, he could still win if it's delayed.

Meanwhile, it's about to be a critical 48 hours, for Trump, when it comes to three other cases that he is facing.

He's expected tomorrow to be here, in New York, attending a hearing, in the hush money criminal case. That's the one that is brought by the District Attorney, in Manhattan, Alvin Bragg. It could end up very well being the first criminal case, against Trump, if as Paula said, the Supreme Court does tend to delay this, if they do get involved, and this does stretch out.

Meanwhile, at the exact same time, south, in Fulton County, Georgia, there are going to be two days of hearings, starting there, in that election interference case, where Trump is facing state charges. The judge there is considering motions to disqualify the District Attorney, Fani Willis, after the revelations of a personal relationship that she acknowledged, with a special prosecutor that she hired in that case.

Then, on Friday, here in New York, a judge is expected to issue that ruling, in the civil fraud trial, against Trump and his businesses. That's where the former President could be ordered to pay hundreds of millions of dollars for fraudulently inflating financial statements.

And Karen, obviously, that is a significant one. And I think we should start though, with tomorrow that Trump's going to be here for the hush money case. He's asking the judge to throw that case out. But if the judge dismisses that he could -- he's setting a trial date, right?

KAREN FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes. So, that's what's supposed to happen, tomorrow.

It was set originally, as a control date, to see if the March 25th date could be the date that they go to trial, because if you remember, the Jack Smith case is -- what used to be on earlier in March, at March, I think it was 4th or 5th that it was supposed to go.

COLLINS: Which is now off the books.

FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO: Which is now off the books. And so, it's looking like that will be the court date. It'll go as planned, in New York.

COLLINS: And Paula, I mean, we've been to a million -- we're always outside courthouses.

REID: A million, yes.

COLLINS: It's weird to be in studio together.

What does it say to you that Trump is choosing to go, that he chose to go to that one, over to be in Atlanta, tomorrow?

REID: I don't get it, Kaitlan. Here's -- the mystery to me, about the Trump strategy, right now, is his attendance obviously brings an enormous amount of media attention.

Absolutely, it's critical -- it's critical. It's serious, that he's going to potentially face criminal charges. But his lawyers could debrief him, about the substance of that case.

Instead, I would expect that he would have used his presence, to call attention, to what is going on down in Georgia, because the stakes are not as high for him down there, because the case won't go away.

But what's happening though, these allegations of Fani Willis, having an affair, with the lead prosecutor, who's been paid hundreds of thousands of dollars, to handle the case against Trump and his associates? That is something that feeds into this campaign mantra that all of these cases are election interference. It's all part of a corrupt conspiracy.

I continue to be surprised that Trump does not make more of what is going on down in Georgia, or try to bring more attention to it.

COLLINS: Well, and the worst thing that could happen this week, could happen Friday. We know it's happening on Friday. We've heard from sources.

That's the decision from the judge, in the civil fraud trial case here, which Trump's already been found liable for. The decision is how much he's going to have to pay. And it could really kind of wipe out his entire business empire that he's built.

FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO: Yes, that's going to be hugely significant to him, personally, because it could be half a billion dollars, when you add interest and fees and everything else that is at stake here. But it's not a criminal conviction. It's civil. And so, what's happening in the other case is he could be a convicted

felon, by the time he -- the election in November, if these other cases go to trial.

COLLINS: She wants $370 million. You think it could be more than that?


FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO: I think it could be more, absolutely could be more. It depends on what Judge Engoron finds is the disgorgement amount of money that needs to be paid. So, I think it could be more. It also depends on whether he finds all of the remaining charges, some of the remaining charges, and what the remedies are.

COLLINS: Karen Friedman Agnifilo.

Paula Reid, we will be outside the courthouse tomorrow. So, make sure you watch us here, starting at 9 AM, on CNN, tomorrow.

But for now, there's a big victory that happened in the Democratic Party, last night, the aftershocks of it are still being felt in Washington, flipping a House seat, shrinking the Republicans' already slim majority.

Did Tom Suozzi lay out a blueprint, for his own party, though, to win back key swing districts this fall? We'll ask the number two Democrat, in the House, that question.


COLLINS: When the newest member of Congress is sworn in, two weeks from today, a historically slim Republican majority, in the House, is going to get one seat smaller. That's because Democrat Tom Suozzi defeated his Republican challenger, last night, in this special election, here in New York, to replace George Santos.

And now, fellow Democrats are drawing their own conclusions about why.


REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): Tom Suozzi ran a great campaign. Tom Suozzi talked about issues, fixing challenges, solving problems.

REP. PETE AGUILAR (D-CA): But this election also shows that the economic agenda is working.


REP. TED LIEU (D-CA): One reason is because Donald Trump mocks Asian Americans.


COLLINS: I'm joined here tonight, by the number two Democrat, in the House, Massachusetts congresswoman, Katherine Clark.

And it's great to have you here on THE SOURCE, Congresswoman.

But first, I want to get to the politics in a moment.

But given your work, on gun reform, on Capitol Hill, I do want to get your thoughts, on what happened, in Kansas City, tonight. Because, you've had this comment before about putting kids over guns. And 11 children are patients, right now, at just one hospital, in Kansas City.

Do you think what happened today will change anything on Capitol Hill?

REP. KATHERINE CLARK (D-MA): Kaitlan, we have to continue this work. And we've got to continue. This unique American tragedy that we tolerate. And we choose to perpetuate this gun violence. We are not helpless in this. This is a choice.

And we don't have to have more moms, like you just had on, talking about their lives interrupted. And we're so grateful that she and her daughter, Madison (ph), are safe. But that is traumatizing.

And that fear of gun violence permeates every part of our country. And it is becoming as American, as the Super Bowl itself. This should be a time of celebration, for Chiefs fans, and pride. And instead, once again, we are seeing a loss of life, and grievously injured people and children.

And it is not lost on us that today is the sixth anniversary of Parkland. And I got to tour that school, just a few weeks ago. And it is a time capsule. The glass is still broken it sticks in the soles of your feet, as you walk those halls. I went with three dads, who lost their children. And they pointed to the bloodstains, in the hall, where their children died.

We have to do better. We have to realize that we are not powerless to this, and that we have to choose true freedom, which is not unfettered weapons of war. It's the freedom to go and celebrate at a Super Bowl parade, to send your child to school, with the knowledge they will come home to you. It is the right to go to the movies or a house of worship--


CLARK: --and not fear that you are going to be shot.

So, it is long past time, that we stand up for our kids, for our families, for our communities, and pass the laws that we know can save lives.

COLLINS: Yes, it's a gravely important issue. And obviously, we'll continue to monitor the latest there.

But you're on Capitol Hill, right now. As I mentioned, a big politic story that we are covering tonight, is Tom Suozzi's victory, and what it means for Democrats on the Hill, because it does chip away at that already slim majority that Republicans had. I wonder, just given what we've seen this week, where the Department of Homeland Security Secretary was impeached by one vote, what you believe the impact of having that one more Democrat, on Capitol Hill, is going to look like for you.

CLARK: I think Tom Suozzi ran a great campaign. And he is just the latest example of what we've seen, throughout the last year, that voters are rejecting extremism. They are rejecting the chaos and dysfunction we see across the aisle.

They want members of Congress, like Tom Suozzi, who's going to put their needs back on the table, here in Congress. That's exactly what Democrats had been doing.

And Tom was part of the work we did, to pass an infrastructure bill that got lead pipes out of every community in this country. That is reducing people's cable bills by $30 a month. That is bringing back manufacturing to our shores. Capping the price of insulin at $35 a month for our seniors. Making a historic investment in climate change, prevention, that also helps out homeowners with weatherization, and affording to upgrade their homes, to make them more efficient.


CLARK: That is the work that Tom Suozzi did with us. That is what the American people sent us here to do. And Tom made that case to people. And they responded.

COLLINS: Well one part of his--

CLARK: What they don't--

COLLINS: --his campaign, one part of it though, he ran differently than we've seen some Democrats.

He admitted that there were issues on the border. He said he believed that it should be temporarily closed. And he did distance himself from President Biden, who has weak numbers, on that issue, as you know, and the White House, know.

Do you think that's a tactic that we'll see more Democrats use, come November, when you are trying to win back the House?


CLARK: I can tell you that you cannot find a single Democrat that thinks our immigration system is working well that our border system is not in need of immediate solutions. And Tom reiterated that.

And what helped Tom make that case was that while we were here, talking about extremely important national security needs? That was held up by Republicans, who said, we've got to have a compromise on border security.

The President, Secretary Mayorkas, Democrats, came together, made that compromise, rejected by the House GOP. They said the quiet part out loud. We don't want a solution. We want a campaign issue.

And that is why Tom Suozzi, and his acknowledgement of the working solutions that we need to come together, to secure our borders, and to have an immigration system, that makes sense, for the workforce, we need, for our security, and to treat migrants humanely. That is what Democrats are doing.

And Republicans very publicly, during Tom's campaign, showed they're not interested. They want to preserve this as a political issue, instead of putting the security--


CLARK: --of the American people first.

And we're continuing to see that play out in the national security package that Speaker Johnson is not bringing to the floor of the House, for a vote.

COLLINS: Yes. They say they want H.R.2, which obviously, that's something that's dead on arrival, in the Senate, and he talked about theirs being dead on arrival in the House.

Congresswoman Katherine Clark, thank you for joining, tonight. Look forward to having more conversations with you.

And up next here, on THE SOURCE, we're going to turn to a House Republican, one who could be threatened by what happened, last night, but also wanted George Santos removed -- kicked out of the House. Question is what last night's win for a Democrat means for him, come November.



COLLINS: Republicans, in the House, today, in a tense round of finger- pointing, after last night's special election loss. That includes plenty of blame, towards the New York freshmen, including my next guest, who pushed to expel George Santos, in the first place.

Here tonight is Republican congressman of New York, Mike Lawler.

And Congressman, we'll get to George Santos in a moment. I know your favorite topic.

But on this loss, I mean, you predicted that she was going to win. She lost by eight points. You thought that these issues would favor your party. I mean, how much does it concern you, about your run, come November. And does it change your calculation at all?

REP. MIKE LAWLER (R-NY): Not at all. Special elections are just that. Special.

Tom Suozzi is someone, who's been in office for 30 years. He first got elected in 1993, as the Mayor of Glen Cove. He has represented most of this congressional district, during the entirety of that time, including six years as a member of Congress.

Democrats spent nearly $25 million, in support of Tom Suozzi, for this special election. And Tom Suozzi ran away, from Joe Biden, and moved to the right, on immigration and the border.

And I just listened to my colleague talk about how Democrats recognize that there is a crisis at our border. It's funny.

When we voted on H.R.2, in the House, every single Democrat voted against it. And it wasn't until late last year that Democrats in the Senate finally decided to do anything about the border.

So, spare us the gaslighting here. The reality is that this crisis is a crisis of the Democrats' own making, at our southern border.

Tom Suozzi ran a good campaign. He ran to the right. And he's somebody who has presented himself as a centrist over the course of his 30 years.

COLLINS: Yes. And--

LAWLER: And so, I'm not concerned about how this plays out, in districts like mine, in which, any number of polls, shows me doing very well. And my favorability, 29 points higher in my district than the generic Republican.

COLLINS: OK. So, you're not worried. And I should note--

LAWLER: So, I'm not worried about it.

COLLINS: I should note that bill that you're talking about, they voted against? It's still a lot of Trump-era immigration policies that it's not surprising Democrats voted against it.

LAWLER: Yes, but with all due--

COLLINS: But point taken.

LAWLER: With all due respect, Kaitlan? Those are the policies--

COLLINS: Point taken that they voted against it.

LAWLER: Those are the policies that actually brought down the border crossings. Joe Biden reversed those policies and border crossings exploded, which is why we're dealing with this catastrophe.

COLLINS: Well, also, but also, there were issues that, in the bipartisan bill that just came over from the -- the Senate had negotiated that also could have helped. But Republicans in the House sunk.

But let me just talk about--

LAWLER: Well, but, again, Kaitlan, on that point, because I think this is important.

COLLINS: Congressman, no.

LAWLER: Not until last week--

COLLINS: We've done the immigration thing. I want to -- I understand your point there. And it's taken.

LAWLER: Yes, but, Kaitlan, not until last week--

COLLINS: But I've got to ask you about something else. Because just on the point on the New York part of this specifically.

Semafor's reporting that George Santos apparently texted you, and the others, in the New York delegation, who all voted to expel him, saying, "I hope you guys are happy with this dismal performance" and your $10 million for futile -- futile BS "cost the party." He said he looks forward to you losing due to your absolute hate-filled campaign to remove him from Congress.

One, were you on that group text? And two, did you respond to that?

LAWLER: Kaitlan, yes, I was. And no, I didn't. Because George Santos is a waste of time. And so, I really don't care what he has to say. He's no longer a member of Congress for good reason. And we move on.

But I want to go back to the border, because that actually is important, unlike George Santos.


The fact is that Democrats, in the state -- in the U.S. Senate, Chuck Schumer, the Senate Majority Leader, had nothing to say or do, on the border, until late last year, despite the fact that New York City has been inundated with illegal immigration it's failed sanctuary city policies, the right to shelter being presumed to require the city to house illegal immigrants.

COLLINS: OK. But is it also true that Republicans--

LAWLER: It's absurd.

COLLINS: --in the Senate, also wanted to negotiate--

LAWLER: And the border bill--

COLLINS: --they negotiated a bipartisan deal?

LAWLER: Kaitlan?

COLLINS: But I'm just -- I understand what you're saying, Congressman. And I'll take your point. And I had other questions for you.

But it's also true that Republicans, in the Senate, very conservative Republicans, negotiated a bipartisan deal that House Republicans and some Senate Republicans made clear, they sunk, because they want to use it as a political issue. And they called it a crisis too, but decided they can wait an entire year, before solving it, hoping that Donald Trump is reelected.

LAWLER: Well, again, Democrats had three years, under Joe Biden, to actually do something, about the border. They chose not to. Senate Democrats chose not to act until December of last year to actually start negotiating a bill.

Here's the bottom line, and the way Congress works, because the media seems to have this position that whatever the Senate passes, everybody has to accept.

There are two houses within Congress. And you actually have to negotiate. And so the Senate--

COLLINS: Congressman, yes.

LAWLER: --the Senate did not--

COLLINS: We understand.

LAWLER: Well -- well respectfully--

COLLINS: Congressman, unfortunately, I got to stop you there. Respectfully, Congressman?

LAWLER: Everybody wanted us to accept a bill--

COLLINS: Respectfully, Congressman?

LAWLER: --that was never actually passed.

COLLINS: I think both--

LAWLER: And that's part of the problem here.

COLLINS: I think both -- both parts of Congress bear blame for this. No one has done anything to fix the immigration system.

LAWLER: In 37 years.

COLLINS: We do have our next hour on tape for "KING CHARLES." We've got a great episode coming up. So, we're going to have to take it from here.

I'll get back to you. We'll have you back on.

I want to thank you all for watching THE SOURCE.

"KING CHARLES" starts right after this break.