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The Source with Kaitlan Collins

Pritzker: Some Governors Concerned About Debate Performance; Judge Postpones Trump's Hush Money Sentencing Until Sept. 18; Seth Rogen On Mother-In-Law's "Sudden" Alzheimer's Diagnosis: She Forgot How To Walk, Speak And Eat. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired July 02, 2024 - 21:00   ET



ELLE REEVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Vice President Harris is not super- popular, and maybe she'd lose. But it was better to try and lose than to not try at all.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Do they think that the President would actually step down?

REEVE: Yes, they -- well they were mixed on that. They've been reading the same reports we have. They are afraid that his ego is in the way, or that his family's ego is in the way. But they just feel like this has to be done. It's the only way to beat Trump.

COOPER: Elle Reeve, thank you so much.

A reminder, Elle's new book is out next week, called "Black Pill: How I Witnessed the Darkest Corners of the Internet Come to Life, Poison Society, and Capture American Politics."

The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: The Democratic dam showing signs of potentially breaking, as President Biden's week goes from bad to worse, with a sitting Democrat now, calling on him to leave the 2024 race, as another is predicting he'll lose to Donald Trump.

My lead source, tonight, a prominent Democratic governor, set to speak with President Biden, tomorrow.

As for the former President, he is on quite the legal streak, this week, after a landmark Supreme Court ruling just delayed his New York sentencing set to happen next week, as he himself is amplifying calls to jail his political opponents.

I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.

Tonight, President Biden offering an apology, for that disastrous debate performance, no longer saying that a cold was to blame, but instead, a busy foreign travel schedule, in the weeks leading up to that showdown in Atlanta.

Biden saying, tonight, and I'm quoting him now, "I decided to travel around the world a couple of times... shortly before the debate... I didn't listen to my staff." The President then joking quote, "I almost fell asleep on stage."

A few laughs in the room, though it's not clear a joke really landed. I should note that debate was 12 days after he returned from that foreign trip.

And Biden made that apology, tonight, behind closed doors, as his allies, though, are urging the White House to make him more visible, out in public. Interviews, town halls, late-night shows, really everything has been suggested to Biden's closest aides, with many Democrats now in panic mode, over President Biden's chances, come November.

Today, the first sitting Democratic member of Congress called on Biden to step aside, as others are calling the race for Donald Trump, including a Democrat, who represents a rural district, one who flipped it from a Republican seat to a Democratic seat. That's Washington State Rep. Marie Gluesenkamp Perez.


REP. MARIE GLUESENKAMP PEREZ (D-WA): Truth I think is that Biden is going to lose to Trump. I know that's difficult. But I think the damage has been done by that debate.


COLLINS: And what we are hearing, from sources tonight, makes clear that lines like this from the White House and top Democrats aren't cutting it.



GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO (D-PA): He had a bad night.


REP. DAN GOLDMAN (D-NY): It was a bad night.

SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): Bad night.

REP. MIKE QUIGLEY (D-IL): He had a really, really bad night.

REP. DEBBIE DINGELL (D-MI): Thursday night was a bad night.


COLLINS: Now, I should note, the White House is at least taking some of that advice that I mentioned earlier. President Biden is scheduled to do his first sit-down in-depth interview, this Friday.

And it comes as a new CNN poll, though, might add to the pressure to do something unscripted sooner. The latest numbers show that most in his party believe the best chance for Democrats to win is with someone not named Joe Biden, at the top of the ticket.

There's even a noticeable shift in how big-name allies of the President's, like former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, and Congressman Jim Clyburn of South Carolina, how they're talking about this race tonight.


REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): Let us not make a judgment about a presidency on one -- one debate.

I think it's a legitimate question to say is this an episode, or is this a condition?

REP. JIM CLYBURN (D-SC): Stay the course. Chill out. Chill out.

This party should not, in any way, do anything to work around Ms. Harris. We should do everything we can to bolster her whether she's in second place, or at the top of the ticket.


COLLINS: Of course, the Harris that Clyburn is referencing there would be the Vice President, Kamala Harris, a Vice President that I should note the White House press secretary could not even say today, whether or not Biden has spoken to her, since the debate, last Thursday, five days ago.

For her part, Harris had this to say tonight.


KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Look, Joe Biden is our nominee. We beat Trump once. And we're going to beat him again. Period.

NIDIA CAVAZOS, CBS NEWS CAMPAIGN REPORTER, CBS NEWS: Are you ready to lead the country, if necessary?

HARRIS: I am proud to be Joe Biden's running mate.


COLLINS: Tomorrow, President Biden will come face-to-face with some of his biggest surrogates in the nation, Democratic governors. Many of them have been out on the airwaves.

Several of them, including my next guest here tonight, are being discussed though, openly, as potential replacements on the ticket, if, and I should put the emphasis on if, it comes to that.


And joining me now is Illinois governor, JB Pritzker, who is a member of President Biden and his campaign's National Advisory Board.

And Governor, it's great to have you here on THE SOURCE.

When it comes to this, have you personally heard from President Biden since the debate, last Thursday night?

GOV. JB PRITZKER (D-IL): I have not. Spoken with people in the campaign, but not with the President.

COLLINS: That's kind of surprising given, obviously, you are a member of the campaign. You're in the state that's hosting the Democratic Convention, come August. Are you surprised that you have not heard from him directly?

PRITZKER: Yes, I think it's important for the President to talk to not just the leaders of the Democratic Party, across the board, but generally, the nation. And so, I'd like to hear more from him. And I think that he intends to do more of that.

COLLINS: What would you like to hear from him? I mean, there's word that he's called Democratic governors to meet potentially, as soon as tomorrow. Is that true? And if so, what do you want to hear from President Biden, right now?

PRITZKER: Well, it is true that there's going to be a discussion, tomorrow.

There was a discussion, yesterday, among governors who was all, fairly positive conversation, people expressing themselves and of course, talking about, what they'd like to hear from the President, what they think the strategy ought to be going forward. And I think everybody wanted to be able to express that to the President, directly.

And that's why Governor Walz, who heads the Democratic Governors Association, asked for the opportunity, and the President was readily willing to do it.

COLLINS: I mean, what are you going to say, to President Biden?

Because we are seeing, the first sitting Democratic lawmakers say that he should drop out of the race today. We're hearing concerns from other Democrats, even if they're still backing him.

I mean, what do you want to say to him, tomorrow?

PRITZKER: Well, look, first of all, I think that there's a healthy discussion going on, within the Democratic Party. We're not a cult, like the MAGA Republicans. We tolerate dissent. And we think it's good for democracy, to have this conversation.

And for me anyway, my word is my bond. I honor my commitments. Joe Biden is going to be our nominee, unless he decides otherwise.

And so, I think that there's a healthy conversation that will happen, with the President, I hope, expressing, what he intends to do going forward in the campaign, and reassuring everybody that this is the right course, to make sure that we stay the course with him.

COLLINS: Well, it is, of course, up to President Biden, to make this decision. But you personally, what do you think? Do you think he should -- he should stay as the nominee?

PRITZKER: Well, look, he's been terrific for my state. Remember, he rescued us from well, an insurrection, and then from an economy that could have cratered, and, of course, from a health crisis that killed too many people under Donald Trump.

And then, he's done a lot to revive American manufacturing. And in my state, we've seen jobs and companies coming back to the United States and to Illinois. And, of course, this is a president that stands up for women's rights and workers' rights.

So, I think very highly of the President. And that's why I've supported him. Again, I think a healthy discussion is good. And there'll be a result of that, leading into the convention.

COLLINS: Are you still supporting him now, though?

PRITZKER: Yes, I think that again, he's our nominee. And so, unless he makes a different decision, I'm on board, and I'm supporting the President. Again, he's been good for the country.

And remember what the contrast is. This is a despotic narcissist, on the other side, in Donald Trump. And the Supreme Court just gave him even more power, potentially, with immunity from prosecution, for things that I think we all know he's capable of doing. And he's a convicted felon, and an adjudicated rapist, and he's a congenital liar.

And I think the contrast, no matter what you think of the President's debate performance, last Thursday, the contrast between these two is so great. And it's clear that the most empathic president, at least in my lifetime, is Joe Biden.

COLLINS: But is that clear? Because it doesn't -- it doesn't look that way, in polling. I mean, three quarters of voters, U.S. voters, in a new CNN poll, say the Democratic Party would have a better shot holding the presidency in 2024, with someone other than President Biden at the top of the ticket.

I mean, do you agree with that? Or are the voters wrong?

PRITZKER: Well, I think that that's why President Biden needs to communicate more. We haven't heard a lot from him, since the debate, and that's why the polls look as they do.


I think that when you come off a bad debate, you need to remind people why you're the right guy to elect. And I know that Joe Biden will do that over the next couple of weeks. At least I expect him to. Or he'll make a difference decision. And I think that's, again, this is a healthy conversation, for us all to be having. And I think that the President needs to communicate to everybody, once again, why he's the right guy.

COLLINS: You keep talking about a healthy discussion. I mean, have you heard from other Democratic governors, who do believe that he should drop out of the 2024 race?

PRITZKER: No, nobody said that. There was, you know, again, we had a call, the other day, yesterday actually, in which people just expressed that they wanted to hear more from the President. That they certainly were concerned about the debate performance, but they just want to make sure that this is the right direction, and that the President reassures them.

I have not heard any of the governors express that he's not the right guy. It's just that I think there are questions that got raised by that debate. And hopefully, that's just a one-off situation that the President can rectify, by letting everybody know, once again, all the great things that he's done, for working families, across America.

COLLINS: He's scheduled to do one interview, so far that we know, on Friday. We have seen him only a handful of times, since the debate, on prompter, I should note, at basically all of those, except maybe one stop at a Waffle House.

Is he doing enough right now? Is he coming out in public enough for -- in your view?

PRITZKER: I'd like to see more. There's no doubt about it. I think that more calls should be made to people, more public appearances, more opportunity for reporters to see him and hear him.

He's one of the most experienced people that's ever held the job. And he needs to remind people of that. And the only way to do that is to get out there, answer questions and communicate to everybody.

COLLINS: Yes, I mean, it's pretty shocking that we're five days out from the debate. And as of today, he had not spoken with Senator Schumer, with Minority Leader, Hakeem Jeffries, with Nancy Pelosi. And even at the briefing today, the press secretary could not say, if he had spoken to the Vice President.

PRITZKER: All I can say is that it's important to get out there. I think that they're probably reeling from the reaction from the debate, and looking for the right opportunities going forward.

So, I'm very hopeful that for example, the call that as you all have reported, there will be, with governors, tomorrow, is one of many that he'll be doing over the next, well, there are 120 days, I think, until the election. And every day counts. So, I hope he's going to use it to communicate.

Because, again, he's been a great president. He's a patriotic American. The contrast between him and Donald Trump, genuinely, Donald Trump is a terrible human being. And I think the more that the President can be out there, the more he contrasts himself with Donald Trump, and the terrible things that he says about people.

And I'm frightened after the Supreme Court decision of yesterday, that if Donald Trump becomes president, he will use the immunity that the Supreme Court seems to have given him, to do things that we've never seen a president do. To attack people, even potentially, to indict people, or go after them for things they didn't actually do. But he'll be held immune from it, because of the ruling of the Supreme Court that he appointed.

COLLINS: Yes. I mean, you're talking about the stakes of this election. And there could be more Supreme Court Justice nominations for whoever is president in 2024, and beyond.

I mean, you have a background in business. If you're an executive of a company, and you're looking at this, and you have someone that people don't have confidence in, and they just had that debate performance on Thursday night? I mean, wouldn't the decision be to choose the person, who presents the -- the option that presents the least amount of risk, given the stakes of what you just laid out that you believe are on the ballot, in November?

PRITZKER: Look, there's every opportunity here for the President to recover his standing, again, by getting out there, and talking to people, and reminding us what a good president he's been, and how much he's done.

COLLINS: Do you think that that can -- that can fix that? Because that, I think that is an open question, right now, from what I've heard from sources, is whether or not a few campaign appearances, rallies in North Carolina, can undo the damage that was done in a 90- minute debate that 50 million people watched.

PRITZKER: Look, there are -- like I said, there are about 120 days left in this campaign.

And we've seen candidates stumble along the way. And people have talked about. Of course, the Obama performance, in a debate against Romney back, in 2012. We all remember that. And he dropped in the polls as a result of that.


There is time, for the President, to get out there, and remind people who he is. And once again, the contrast between these two is so great. I really do think that the public will recognize the challenge, the problem of electing someone like Donald Trump.

COLLINS: If President Biden does drop out of this? And right now, I should note, we don't have any indication, from the White House that he is going to drop out. But if he does, I mean, would you consider taking his place, at the top of the ticket?

PRITZKER: Look, right now, Joe Biden is our nominee. And I'm a 100 percent on board with supporting him as our nominee, unless he makes some other decision. And then, I think we're all going to be discussing what's the best way forward. COLLINS: But you're -- you, as a Democratic governor, right now, people are watching this and wondering what's going to happen. You don't think it's a non-zero chance that we are in a situation, where you're discussing who a new Democratic nominee would be?

PRITZKER: Well, I don't know. You'd have to ask that to Joe Biden, is it non-zero? Because he's the nominee of the party, unless he says otherwise.

COLLINS: Would you support a Vice President Harris?

I mean, the polling from CNN today, she's polling better than he is with Independents, and that she is actually within striking distance of Donald Trump, in that hypothetical matchup.

PRITZKER: Well, the Democratic Party has a great bench. And I think you and I both know, there are some hyper-capable people that whose names have been mentioned, as potential for the future.

But right now, we're focused on the 2024 race, and the fact that Joe Biden is going to be the nominee unless otherwise stated.

So look, I think very, very highly of Kamala Harris. She has stood by Joe Biden, in these difficult circumstances. She's somebody, who has real backing among certain parts of the party. And so, I think, again, she's a terrific member of a class of Democrats, who I think are all in very good stead and well-liked within their states or across the country.

COLLINS: You've made clear that you do have concerns, and that those concerns have not been addressed. You haven't heard from President Biden. That you want -- you want those concerns to be addressed. You want him communicating more.

If he doesn't do that, will you change whether or not you're still supporting him on this ticket?

PRITZKER: He's our nominee. And the most important thing is we have to win in 2024. The alternative is thoroughly unacceptable.

COLLINS: But can he beat -- can he beat Donald Trump? Can he beat -- that's -- but that's exactly what I've heard from Democrats, is if you're so concerned about a second Donald Trump presidency, how can you tell voters that you should leave that person they saw on the debate stage, Thursday night, on the top of the Democratic ticket?

PRITZKER: I think Joe Biden will do what's best for the Democratic Party, and for winning in 2024. And that's, again, why he's got to go communicate with people. I think we need to just make sure that everybody is heard.

What I don't like is shutting down dissent, shutting down discussion. I know there are people in the party that want people to just be quiet. But the truth is I think people need to express themselves. We're a party that accepts that. And I'm pleased about that. And then, we'll come to a conclusion here. Joe Biden will come to a conclusion about it. And he's a patriotic American, who believes in the Democratic Party and our values, and has fought for them his entire life. And so, I think he's going to, again, he's going to express all of that and make a decision on his own.

COLLINS: Governor JB Pritzker, great to have you tonight, here on THE SOURCE. Thank you for joining us.

PRITZKER: Thanks, Kaitlan.

COLLINS: And coming up, we'll speak with our top political experts, and get the latest reporting from inside the Democratic Party.

And also, why a New York judge just postponed Donald Trump's sentencing, set for next week, until September. My source, tonight, is someone who has known that judge for more than 15 years.



COLLINS: Moments ago, the first sitting Democratic member of Congress, who called on President Biden to drop out of the 2024 race, explained his rationale to Anderson Cooper.


REP. LLOYD DOGGETT (D-TX): He delivered us from Trump then. He could be delivering us to Trump this year, if we have more of what happened last Thursday.


COLLINS: Congressman Lloyd Doggett of Texas may be the only one saying it out loud.

But CNN did speak to more than two dozen current and former Democratic officials, donors and longtime allies of President Biden. And many of them say that their minds are also made up, telling CNN that they believe that Biden should call it quits, even if they are not saying it with their names attached to it. It's a decision that some of them believe Biden needs to announce, as soon as this week.

I'm joined here at the table, tonight, by a trio of top political sources.

Former New York City mayor, Bill de Blasio.

Republican strategist, David Polyansky.

And also Democratic strategist, Julie Roginsky.

It's great to have you all here.

Mr. Mayor. I mean, it is really interesting to your Governor Pritzker, who obviously is a major surrogate of President Biden's. His state is hosting the convention. He hasn't even heard from the President, since Thursday.

BILL DE BLASIO, (D) FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: Kaitlan, I want to talk about this very personally.

Because I think we're underestimating what Joe Biden is having to make sense of, at this moment, as a human being, and as President of the United States, to have to think about.


And I've been there. I had to think about pulling out of the last race I was in, because it -- that, for my case, it was clear it wasn't going to work.

You wonder if this is the end of the line, politically, the end of your career. Let's be blunt, in Joe Biden's case, it also has huge ramifications for where he is in the span of his life, emotionally. To have to make that decision is extremely difficult. So, I think there has to be some respect for that.

He's also been a successful president. And, you hear the 1968 analogy to Lyndon Johnson. It's absolutely false analogy, because Lyndon Johnson, although a stunningly effective domestic president, made the fundamental mistake of getting us into Vietnam, so deeply. And he knew it. He knew it. We now have the historical record to prove he understood he had failed in this painful manner.

Joe Biden succeeded. He beat Donald Trump, saved the democracy, and then managed a very impressive program, as president. He achieved more than I think many of us thought was even possible.

So, imagine if you had done everything, right. And now you heard all these people, you thought you were friends, saying it's time to go, or you saw those poll results, which are quite powerful.

I think he needs a little space, and a little time. I do believe he is a truly patriotic person, who will make a big decision, not a narrow decision. But I think he has to get there, emotionally.

COLLINS: What decision do you think he ultimately makes?

DE BLASIO: I'm not here to predict. But I would say he is such a both patriotic person and experienced political figure. He can't be missing what he's seeing, what you're seeing in these polls.

COLLINS: The other -- but the part about this, Julie, is that that when you talk to the Biden team, he has always felt counted out.

Even when he was Vice President, and the Obama team made fun of him, when he ran for president before. He's not -- it's not a chip on his shoulder. But he's always kind of felt like everyone counted him out, when he was -- he actually thought that he was proven right, in the end.

The question, I think, some people around him have, is this time different?

JULIE ROGINSKY, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I don't know. I think the Mayor raises an excellent point about psychologically where Joe Biden, who first ran, I believe, in my memory, at least in 1988, whether this is the end of the line, as the Mayor said, and whether he has to make that decision.

But look, there are other things that need to happen, and need to be put in place, because there's not much time, if he were to get out. And that is who the successor is going to be. He will want to have a say in that, whether it's Kamala Harris or somebody else.

There's probably polling that the White House is doing, and the DNC is doing or should be doing. I beg of you, DNC, do it, if you're not doing it right now, to see where the base of the party is, specifically African-American women, who are the backbone of this party.

Nobody has won, speaking of Lyndon Johnson, nobody, no Democrat has ever won an election for president, since Lyndon Johnson with a majority of the White vote. That means something. It means that we need to know where the base is, specifically Black women, who they want their successor to be.

There are so many issues that need to be addressed, before he makes his announcement, if he makes his announcement. That this is not something where I think Joe Biden is just sitting around, having a Hamlet routine, although he may be doing that too. But there are actual practical things that he, as the leader of this party, needs to put in place before he makes a decision.

COLLINS: Well, and Trump has been very quiet, during a lot of this, on this discussion, as this has built and built.

The Trump team does not want Joe Biden to drop out. And they have made very clear that they believe it would pose a threat to them if -- I mean, and it could be complicated, for Democrats. Trump would be maybe the only person on the airwaves, while they figured out who that successor was. If, if, if.

But they also would be worried it would be someone more formidable. They know Biden. It could be someone that proved a real threat to Trump.

DAVID POLYANSKY, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, sure. Look, the Trump team knows what we all really deep-down know, inside, which is we're witnessing -- and by the way, this isn't good for the country. I'm not gloating about this. But we are witnessing the end of the Biden presidency. And the question that's on the table is two-fold for Democrats and the president.

Number one, does he go out as their nominee? And by doing so, he assuredly not just loses the White House, but the Senate, and ensures Republicans hold the House as part of that.

But number two, we're starting to see, and Democrats are going to have to defend what they've quietly been defending all along, which is are they going to allow somebody that isn't fit for office, which he showed the other night, he is not -- no longer fit, to carry out the duties of not just the presidency, but the Chief Executive and the Commander-in-Chief for the remaining 202 days of his presidency?

And is -- if I just can say, if Nancy Pelosi is going to go out and question whether this is an episode or a syndrome? That just doesn't hold true, whether you put the man's name on the ballot, in November. That holds true for him holding office. And that's a really high threshold, and one, Democrats are going to have to really struggle with over the next week.

ROGINSKY: But by the way, I don't necessarily agree that if Joe Biden stays in this race, the White House is lost, and certainly that Congress is lost, for a variety of reasons. But the most important one of which is what happened yesterday, with the Supreme Court.

There is something on the table now that is bigger, in some ways, of Roe versus Wade was, two years ago, when Republicans were assumed to be taking over Congress, and the fact the red wave never came. And that is that democracy, our very democracy's on the line now.

And there are Democrats and Independents and maybe some Republicans as well, who are sitting around thinking, oh my god, we cannot have somebody like Donald Trump in the White House. We would rather have a potentially incapacitated Joe Biden than the alternative which is a dictator.


POLYANSKY: And that's a -- that's a great point.

If I just could say, on that point, though, I think, even with the CBS numbers we saw the other day, which democracy was a leading campaign point, for the Biden folks? On the issue of saving democracy, after that debate, the two candidates were tied on that issue. And so, what was the centerpiece of the Biden campaign turned into a real flaw and fatal for them.

ROGINSKY: And then the court stepped in.

COLLINS: Final thought, Mr. Mayor?

DE BLASIO: Yes. All politics is local. And I say that because meanwhile, while we're talking, there are people on the ground, campaigning, right now, to stop Donald Trump. The Biden campaign continues. All that effort in those swing states continue.

And it's going to, whether Joe Biden makes a decision, tomorrow, or a month from now, or whatever happens, we have to remember, as Democrats, that we have a job to do. Whatever else, we have to defeat Donald Trump, and that has to happen on the ground.

COLLINS: Great to have you all here. It is a pivotal moment, obviously, for the Democratic Party, but also for the country. Meanwhile, speaking of Donald Trump, he was set to be sentenced, here in New York, next week, just days before the Republican Convention. But the Judge, who was overseeing that case has now delayed that hearing, following that ruling that Julie was just talking about, on immunity.

Meanwhile, Rudy Giuliani is not so lucky as his former brass -- former boss. The disgraced former Mayor has now been disbarred in the State of New York. We'll tell you the reasoning, ahead.



COLLINS: What started off as a very promising week, for the attorneys, who were waging Donald Trump's legal battles, has now proven to get even better for them.

Because today, the Judge, who oversaw Donald Trump's hush money trial, here in New York, has now delayed the sentencing, to decide whether or not the Supreme Court's immunity ruling imperils that conviction. The sentencing was supposed to be here, next week. It is now going to take place September 18th, and that, I'm quoting the judge now, is "If such is still necessary."

I want to break this down with all of our legal sources.

And Judge, I want to start with you, because when I saw that quote, if it's still necessary, is there a real chance here, where this New York conviction there, it's -- they're overturned, or they ask for a new trial because of the Supreme Court's ruling?

JILL KONVISER, RETIRED JUDGE: They will ask for a new trial. There is a chance that that happens, depending upon what the papers say.

But if you look at the Supreme Court decision, it talks about core constitutional responsibilities. I don't think that arranging to pay off a porn star has anything to do with core constitutional responsibility. So, I imagine, at the end of the day, there could be grounds to deny that.

But Judge Merchan did the right thing, because you have to hear out what the parties have to say. You have to -- you may have to do a hearing. But you couldn't decide it on the papers. But he did the cautious thing.

And if he then set it down, and said sentence is this -- this particular day, he's tipped his hand, to say, I'm denying it. He's not going to do that. He was cautious. He said, if there's a sentence, that's when it will be.

COLLINS: I mean, Elie, it's pretty remarkable, though, to see the immediate aftermath of that ruling that we got just 36 hours ago.

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Yes. I reread this today, slowly this time. I brought a prop. This is it. Let me tell you-- COLLINS: That's the Supreme Court ruling?

HONIG: This is the Supreme Court ruling, 36-hours-old. This thing is a disaster, for prosecutors. This opinion is a godsend from heaven, for Donald Trump.

The way that the Supreme Court defines official act is astonishingly broad, on the one hand, and it might even include some of the conduct in the hush money case. But at the same time, it's also so vague, that it's going to be almost impossible for Judge Merchan, for Judge Chutkan, to apply it.

And there's been plenty of academic debate. I've been engaged in some of it, good decision, bad decision, smart, unwise, doesn't matter, because this is now the law, according to the Supreme Court.

And Judge Merchan, and Judge Chutkan are going to have to apply this first. They may get results they don't like. They're going to have to live with them. And if they don't, it's going back to the Supreme Court.

COLLINS: I mean, how does--


COLLINS: --a godsend, as Elie described it, feels like Trump gets a lot of those on the legal front.

JACKSON: It really does.

COLLINS: His attorneys would acknowledge that too, I should note.

JACKSON: And I'm going to tell you what else. I think this, no matter what the judge does, in connection with this case, talking about Juan Merchan, guess where it may end up? The Supreme Court of the United States. How and why? We're talking about a state case.

I'll tell you how. What happens is, is that the judge very brightly, I do agree with Jill, in this instance, because he set a motion schedule. That means attorneys submit your argument, right? The defense will submit their argument, and of course, prosecutor will respond. And he will then weigh in on it, if a hearing is necessary. He'll do what he does.

But no matter what he does, guess what happens then? It gets appealed. New York, we have departments. It will get appealed to the First Department. Thereafter, we have this other court, the high court, Court of Appeals. And then after that, Kaitlan, it is likely, because it involves a federal question, to go to that very court.

And so, last point, although the issues you can argue don't relate to official conduct? It's private conduct. It's a point sought (ph). The issue is going to be was evidence admitted in the case, and did it affect the outcome of the case? And that's going to be the question the judge is going to be weighing.

KONVISER: But that--

COLLINS: And I'm watching pages just be ripped off a calendar, like in a movie, in my mind, as you're saying that.

KONVISER: But even -- even if--


KONVISER: --there are -- there was some conduct, while he was in the White House, that's arguably official, and I don't really see that, they're still harmless error analysis.

JACKSON: Exactly right.

KONVISER: Meaning, even if it was wrong, it didn't affect or infect that the verdict here and--

JACKSON: Because there was so much other overwhelming evidence--

KONVISER: That's right.

JACKSON: --with respect to these timelines.

KONVISER: And it's really limited to Hope Hicks and a conversation she had.

HONIG: Well--


KONVISER: And Pecker, when he was in the White House.

HONIG: Let me say two things about that though.

This decision, the Supreme Court says the motivation of the person, of the President--

JACKSON: Can't matter (ph).

HONIG: --doesn't matter. So, if he's talking to his comms director, Hope Hicks, that's all they're going to look at.

The second thing is Donald Trump's team is going to use the D.A.'s own words against them. Donald Trump's team is going to say that Hope Hicks piece of evidence, you know what the D.A. told the jury?

JACKSON: Devastating.

HONIG: This is devastating, powerful evidence of guilt.

The forms that Trump had to fill out, the disclosure forms when he became president, the D.A. stood in front of the jury, and said, powerful, overwhelming evidence of guilt.

KONVISER: Right. But I have to--

COLLINS: But the--


KONVISER: --I just have to say that although that, they did say devastating, that's argument. It's not necessarily any evidence before them.

And motivation is very important. Because if you look at what the President argued, at this trial, it was, I was not trying to infect the election. I was trying to protect my wife, and my family, which means it is not official.

HONIG: But you're making the--

KONVISER: That was the argument he made.

HONIG: --you're making the argument for why that evidence was important, which is why it's going to be errored, if it was let in.

KONVISER: I -- I totally disagree.

COLLINS: It's all--

KONVISER: I totally disagree with it.

COLLINS: It's fascinating to see all of this. I love a good disagreement.

Also just fascinating to see -- oh, this is, you know, today we're learning Rudy Giuliani was disbarred, here in New York.


COLLINS: As Trump is getting all of these good luck streaks from the courts, seeing Rudy Giuliani be disbarred.

Great to have you all here. Thank you very much for that.

Coming up here, as President Biden is fending off those calls from Democrats, to drop his reelection bid, we're now learning about his son, Hunter, joining high-stakes meetings, with senior officials, at the White House.

We'll join -- be joined by one of the best-sourced White House reporters, right after a quick break.



COLLINS: A critical primetime debate, in front of the nation, with perhaps the future of President Biden's campaign on the line, the White House revealing today that his son, Hunter Biden, helped prep his father for that moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: This is a holiday week, Fourth of July. He spent time with his family, as you all know, and reported, at Camp David.

Hunter came back with him and walked with him into -- into -- into that meeting, that prep, that speech prep, and, you know, and he ended up spending time with his dad and his family that night. That is basically what happened.


COLLINS: Joining me tonight, New York Times White House correspondent, Katie Rogers, who is a deeply-sourced reporter, on all of the conversations happening inside the White House, and also the Biden family.

And Katie, it's great to have you back.

I mean, this was the White House confirming today that yes, Hunter Biden has been sitting in on some meetings that senior White House staff were also in. I just think, you know so much about how the Biden family operates. And I just wonder what you made of that revelation.

KATIE ROGERS, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: To be honest, it didn't surprise me at all to see that.

I had done some reporting, last year, about their relationship and found out that Hunter, you know, he's a -- he's a longtime adviser of his father, informally, and so was Beau Biden, before his death in 2015. Their father would call them constantly for their input on politics, and otherwise. That hasn't changed with Hunter.

And in fact, Hunter's involvement has encompassed speech writing, at the White House. He weighs in on -- he has weighed in on at least one speech, particularly related to democracy before. And so, to see him in a speech prep, last night, was not surprising to me.

COLLINS: Well, you also have new reporting, tonight, in "The New York Times," about President Biden, and you say that his mental lapses are increasingly common, over the last few months, if you're speaking with sources.

Tonight, at that fundraiser, President Biden said he was fatigued from the foreign travel. He had just spent eight days at Camp David, and had been back for 12 days, by the time to that debate.

But what are you hearing from sources about Biden, on a day-to-day basis, inside the West Wing?

ROGERS: Yes, and just to address the prep part, I had done some reporting, asking, was -- did they receive a person who was fatigued, and it was hard to just come back from that? Did it -- did it -- was it evidence of a diminished person? Or was it more that the fatigue made it harder to address what he is already not great at, which is keeping facts straight, staying on message and staying focused? And these people said, the latter. So basically, what I'm hearing, on a day-to-day basis, is a mixed bag, which is that the President is engaged in foreign policy briefings. He asks all the questions, people don't think to come prepared with. I hear that -- we hear that all the time in our reporting.

But what is new is this sense that there has been a sharp sort of decline, in recent months, particularly physically, and which was evident to diplomats abroad, to advisers, past and former, who have come in to meet with him that this physical and also mental, more blips, less focus, sometimes confusion is happening with more frequency.

COLLINS: Well, and what did -- what exactly was the debate prep schedule at Camp David?

ROGERS: Right. So, I had heard that it was a six-day prep, which had initially been scheduled to be eight days. But he was so fatigued and exhausted and jetlagged that they cut two days of prep, and let him go to his beach house in Rehoboth to rest.

So, he got to Camp David. The day started at 11 AM. And then, he was given time for a nap, every afternoon, while he prepped. And it was -- it's described as an intense preparation. But there were built-in moments of rest for him.

COLLINS: Katie Rogers, great reporting on -- always, but especially on this moment. Thank you for joining, tonight.

ROGERS: Thanks.

COLLINS: And coming up, here on THE SOURCE, the actor and comedian, Seth Rogen, is going to join me, inside his family's deeply personal mission, to use humor, to help those impacted by Alzheimer's.



COLLINS: Right now, nearly 7 million Americans are living with Alzheimer's. And for decades, researchers have tried, and so far failed, to come up with ways to effectively treat it, leaving many patients and their loved ones with few options.

But now, there are new signs for hope. And from hard science on lifestyle interventions, to earlier detection and intervention, there are new tools to help battle this disease.

CNN's Chief Medical Correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, has spent five years, investigating the breakthroughs, in his new documentary, called "The Last Alzheimer's Patient."


DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the five years of making this documentary.


PAT (ph), WIFE OF MIKE CARVER: That's right.

GUPTA (on camera): Yes.

GUPTA (voice-over): I've met with patients, all around the country, who were diagnosed or at high risk, for this devastating disease.

GUPTA (on camera): Do you remember this time in your life, Mike?

GUPTA (voice-over): It made me really start to think about my own brain.

I have a family history of Alzheimer's as well.

Sometimes, I feel a little rusty. Sometimes, I worry that I make mistakes that maybe my friends and family are too polite to tell me about.


GUPTA (voice-over): So, that's why I decided to do something quite personal.

ISAACSON: Your muscle mass, your body fat.

GUPTA (voice-over): Quite revealing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That wasn't quite right.


GUPTA (voice-over): I went through a battery of tests to assess my own risk.

ISAACSON: Just like we get a cholesterol test every year and check your blood pressure, got to do the same thing for the brain.

GUPTA (voice-over): And what did I find?

ISAACSON: I'll just say it.


COLLINS: And joining me now are two people, who have also been fighting against Alzheimer's, for over a decade. Seth Rogen and, his wife, Lauren Miller Rogen co-founded Hilarity For Charity in 2012, to care for families, who were impacted by this disease.

And thank you so much for both being here.

Because I know you both worked with Dr. Isaacson. And that's who we just saw in that clip, talking with Sanjay there.

And Seth, just with -- let me start with you.

Because 7 million people living with this, I mean, there's 7 million families also living with this, and learning to deal with it. And I would just wonder, for you, as you came to learn more about this disease, what it was that maybe you didn't know about it, or any preconceived notions you had that were changed upon being impacted by it?

SETH ROGEN, ACTOR: Oh, well, thank you for having us first.

A lot. I would say I knew nothing about it at all. I probably had a year -- I would say, a very average outlook, from someone who had not had a very close personal experience with it, as I kind of was -- understood dementia from what movies had told me, which was kind of like, it affected very old people, and they like, didn't know where their keys were, and people would laugh in the movie usually.

And what I found through the seeing Lauren's mother, who was diagnosed in her 50s, that it not only affected her, in a much more severe and sudden way than I had ever assumed was possible, in that she forgot how to walk and speak and eat and do everything, you know? But also, it affected her whole family and me.

COLLINS: Well, and I mean, Lauren, this is so personal for you, because as Seth mentioned, your mom was diagnosed with early-onset Alzheimer's, at just 55-years-old. And when I was reading that, my dad is 55-years-old. And I was just thinking about how young that is. And I know you also lost your grandfather and your grandmother to this.

And I just, you know, that fear you must have felt in that moment, when with your mom's diagnosis, it's relatable for a lot of people, who have also experienced the same thing.

LAUREN MILLER ROGEN, CO-FOUNDER, HILARITY FOR CHARITY: Yes, yes, so many people. And I was so young, when it happened. I was in my mid- 20s. And I was like I'm so alone, no one understands.

And then, we started talking about it. And I realized, fortunately, for me and my community, but unfortunately, for this situation as a whole, I was far from alone. And there were so many people, who were in the position that I was in, as a young person, whose younger parent had been diagnosed, and wanted to do something, felt lost and alone, just like I did.

And that's why we created a place, where people could find community, become advocates, get carers, as caregivers for themselves, and then, eventually, of course, to learn about how to take care of their brains.

COLLINS: Seth, I was just thinking, for people to see you talking about this. You're known for your humor. But obviously, this is something that's incredibly serious and tragic for so many families.

And I wonder how you're kind of merging those two, to raise awareness about this, to help raise funds for this. You did talk about how expensive this is, for families, who are going through this. ROGEN: Yes, I mean, I'd say the merging of humor in any subject matter is, can be quite organic. Honestly, if you're honest about it, and I think honesty -- I think honesty and humor are intrinsically linked. And this has been a journey of like, just kind of being honest, and sharing our story in many ways.

But yes, what we found -- I mean, unfortunately, when this whole problem hit, and it's like, it's one of those things that you don't like to think is true, but like it was a -- it was a horrific problem, that money made much easier for everybody.

And the fact that we could afford to have 24-hours-a-day, seven-day-a- week care, and it didn't disrupt our lives, and we didn't have to quit our jobs and take out loans, and sell our homes to do this, was like an amazing privilege, and something that most people don't have access to.

And so, that was something that we found was like, again, a kind of an organic way, we could use our skill set, which was comedy, and knowing comedians, and putting on shows, and kind of garnering attention through that, with what we had just definitively learned, which is like if we're able to financially help people, whose families are suffering with this, we can make their lives like tangibly better, immediately.

COLLINS: It's an amazing purpose behind it. And I'm sure it's helped so many people.

Seth Rogen, Lauren Miller Rogen, thank you both for joining me.

MILLER ROGEN: Thank you.

ROGEN: Thank you.

COLLINS: And for everyone else, be sure to tune in, because Dr. Sanjay Gupta will report "The Last Alzheimer's Patient." That's going to air, this Sunday, July 7th, 8 PM Eastern, right here on CNN.


Be sure to watch that. You can also donate to Hilarity for Charity, and help out that cause, at

Thank you so much for joining us, on this busy news night.