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The Source with Kaitlan Collins

"I'm The Most Qualified": Biden Defends Decision To Stay In Race; Obama, Pelosi Huddled As Dems Look To Steer Biden Out Of Race; Biden Dismisses Polls As "Premature" In News Conference. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired July 11, 2024 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[21:00:00]

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And I want another Democrat?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I've always been confident, yes.

TUCHMAN: Any of you going to be watching the Republican National Convention, starts Monday?

No hands going out.

Democratic National Convention five weeks after that?

OK. Not all of these people are Democrats, some are Independents, but they all like Joe Biden. And it's fair to say that none of you are going to be switching to Donald Trump.

Thank you all for joining us.

Anderson, back to you.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Gary Tuchman. Thanks so much.

And I'm glad they got the workout in. I did not. So, go ahead.

The news continues. That's it for us. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now. I'll see you, tomorrow.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: I'm Kaitlan Collins, live in the nation's capital, on what is a pivotal night.

President Biden just delivered his first solo news conference, in eight months, one that came at a critical moment, as he's seeking to shore up his reelection bid, and regain the confidence of his party, as more and more Democrats have publicly called for him to drop out of the 2024 race.

That includes another one, Jim Himes, who is the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, minutes after Biden finished saying this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I think I'm the most qualified person to run for president. I beat him once. And I will beat him again.

I'm not in this for my legacy. I'm in this to complete the job I started.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: The President repeatedly argued that he does believe he is the most qualified to run. But of course, it's not his resume that's under scrutiny tonight. It's his age, and his ability to beat Donald Trump, and also to finish a second term, if elected, at the end of which he would be 86.

President Biden called on 10 reporters, and answered 19 questions, during those 59 minutes of that press conference. He was defiant at times, scoffed at the premise of some questions that were posed to him, and also gave no indication that he is reconsidering running.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: I'm determined on running. But I think it's important that I real -- I allay fears by seeing -- let them see me out there, let me see them out, you know -- for the longest time, it was, you know, Biden's not prepared to sit with us unscripted; Biden is not prepared to -- and anyway.

And so what I'm doing is, and I've been doing, I think we've done over 20 major events, from Wisconsin to North Carolina to -- anyway -- to demonstrate that I'm going out in the areas where we think we can win, where we can persuade people to move our way, or people already there.

And again, look, the other thing is we have the most extensive campaign organization of anybody's had in a long, long time. We have well over a 1,000 volunteers, knocking on doors, making phone calls, making tens of thousands of phone calls. We have headquarters. I forget exactly how many. I don't want to say the number and then find out I'm off. But we have scores of headquarters, in all -- in all the toss-up states. We're organized. We're moving.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: With the eyes of the world on him, as he took questions, there were some blunders, like in his first answer to Jeff Mason of Reuters, when President Biden mistook Vice President Kamala Harris, and mistakenly said Vice President Donald Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF MASON, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, REUTERS: What concerns do you have about Vice President Harris' ability to beat Donald Trump, if she were at the top of the ticket?

BIDEN: Look, I wouldn't have picked Vice President Trump to be vice president did I think she was not qualified to be president. So, let's start there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: That was at the beginning of that press conference. But as he went on, there were also lengthy answers, where the President went in- depth, on complex foreign policy issues, from Gaza to Ukraine.

The President also acknowledged at one point during that moment that he needed to adjust his schedule, as he carries out what is arguably the most important and difficult job in the world.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MASON: What concerns do you have about Vice President Harris' ability to beat Donald Trump, if she were at the top of the ticket?

BIDEN: Look, I wouldn't have picked Vice President Trump to be vice president did I think she was not qualified to be president. So, let's start there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: The question of the hour, of course. Did those answers matter, as he took them from reporters? Was style or substance more important to some and others, to lawmakers, to donors, but most importantly, to voters?

My sources tonight are a host of powerhouse political insiders.

But I want to start with David Axelrod, who is with us tonight.

David Axelrod, obviously, you worked with President Biden, when he was Vice President Biden. And as you watched that press conference, and you listened to him take those questions from reporters, what was your assessment of how he did?

[21:05:00]

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, first of all, my assessment was that they made a smart move, by having this at the NATO conference, almost like the State of the Union. He's so comfortable in that environment, in the Congress, and at a NATO conference, which is his strong suit.

And in the second half of that press conference you saw that he -- that's his comfort zone. He's very, very fluent on national security issues. And that showed in those answers.

In some of the answers you played, you saw some of the problems. I mean, the misspoken name, the stumbles.

The other thing is, once he says, I need to allay people's concerns, and so I have to be out there more, and I have to do more. And at the same time, he complained about the length of his schedule, and said, they're putting too many things on my schedule, and that's why I didn't do well, in the debate. And that's really the issue. The issue isn't about his record or history, or -- it's -- it's about his ability to move forward. And when he was asked those questions, he really didn't have a great answer, for what people should expect in the future, based on what they're -- what they're seeing now. So, I don't think this changed much. I think that a lot of attitudes have now been kind of hardened. I don't think he's going to change them.

And one last thing, Kaitlan. He said at the end, that he might change his mind, if his team came to him, and told him that he couldn't win. But they haven't done that. Or that someone else had a better chance of winning.

If that's the case, then they're not really leveling with him, about where this race is. And they really should. It's not fair to him, if they're not telling him the truth.

He is in a very, very tough spot. I don't know anyone in politics, who would tell you, who looks at the numbers that we see, would tell you that he has a very good chance to win this race, and that perhaps others wouldn't have a better chance to win this race. He needs to know that. And there need to be some hard conversations.

COLLINS: Yes. He was asked that question there about whether or not if he saw polling that showed that the Vice President would fare better in a matchup against Donald Trump, what he would do. And he made that answer there.

And earlier, that sound bite that it was supposed to be, for there at the end, was, of course, where he was asked about some remarks he made to governors, in a meeting that he had with them, following the debate.

He talked about curtailing his schedule. The reporting was that he would stop doing public events, after 8 o'clock. He defended that saying no, just instead of starting an event at 9 o'clock or 10 o'clock, starting it a little bit earlier in the evening, talking about constraining a schedule that he described as going from 7 AM until midnight.

Of course, a presidential schedule can be unwieldy, as you David Axelrod know.

AXELROD: Yes.

COLLINS: And Congressman Ro Khanna, as you're looking at this, minutes after President Biden got done speaking, Jim Himes, your colleague, who is the top Democrat, on the House Intelligence Committee, came out with a statement, saying that he does believe President Biden needs to step aside from the 2024 race, after he made very clear, he doesn't plan on doing so.

What do you make of that call?

REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): I'm sure Jim had that plan. And Jim knows foreign policy. But let me just be blunt. President Biden's command and grasp of foreign policy was better and more coherent than 90 percent of the conversations on the Capitol. And so, in this case, he was in his comfort zone. In this case, he was talking about things that he really knew.

And I agree with David Axelrod, that they put him in a very good position to talk about foreign policy.

COLLINS: What did you hear in that press conference? Because it kind of seems to be a situation coming out of it, where, yes, there was the moment, at the beginning, where he said, Vice President Trump, instead of Vice President Harris.

But he did have lengthy answers, on subject areas that he knows very well. He talked about, obviously, his long history, dating back with Israel. It seemed like a Rorschach test that you could see what you wanted to see.

PHILIPPE REINES, FORMER ADVISER TO HILLARY CLINTON: Kaitlan, you saw my answer.

COLLINS: And--

REINES: I was going to say Rorschach test. But I'll use confirmation bias.

I would just correct one thing the Congressman said, is that it's not just a matter that it was 90 percent better than the Hill. It is a 100 percent better than his opponent would do. And that really, at the end of the day, is all that matters.

To David's point. Yes, the President did give an inch tonight on if they came to him, and said you can't win. But I think what that really means is, sir, if the election were tomorrow, you would lose.

Now thankfully, for Joe Biden, the election is not tomorrow.

So, the question is, can you recover from what happened? Whatever you want to call, it, doesn't matter. Can you recover? And Joe Biden believes he can. I don't know that he's right or wrong. But he's the president, and he's the nominee.

I have all the faith in the world, on Vice President Harris, if God forbid, something happened, and she became the president, in the way the Constitution meant. I'd feel very, very comfortable. Thank God, that has not been the case. But right now, it just seems as a little bit of freneticism.

And also, to David's point, about how tonight didn't change anything. You know what? If the President had done something really out of line tonight, it absolutely would have changed everything. People would be like, you see it happen again. It could happen again. He has to leave tomorrow.

[21:10:00] So, give some credit where credit is due. It was a solid performance, except for one flub. It's not that he thinks his vice president is Donald Trump. That would be dementia. He just used the wrong word.

ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: So, look, I have been out of the country for a week, luckily.

COLLINS: Jealous.

ALLISON: I left two days after the debate. And I was -- used that opportunity to reflect, and listen to what everybody on television, and people that have been elected to the office have said. And they have said they wanted our President, Joe Biden, the leader of the Democratic Party, to prove themselves. And I think tonight he did what they asked him to do.

So the question I have for -- I actually, if Joe Biden stays in the race, I'm going to do every single thing I can to defeat Donald Trump.

Because, as a Black woman, living in this country that has less constitutional rights, than I had it, from the day that I was born, 42 years ago, I refuse to live under Donald Trump's reign again. I refuse to risk our democracy. And Joe Biden is the person right now who is able to defeat him.

And so, when people were saying, do something to prove that you have the command of the knowledge? And you stand up, and you call on 10 reporters, and you answer 19 questions, for 59 minutes? Then I ask you, if you go and say step down, then what is the test that he must prove, over and over again? Because then it feels like you, as a person, who's calling for him the step down is being disingenuous.

Now, I'm not saying it's not wrong, because that debate was terrible. And Joe Biden has acknowledged that.

But as people, who are living with the fear of a possible dictator, to take over this country? I just ask you, as a Democratic Party. And I'm not super-excited about Joe Biden. But I am terrified of Donald Trump. To get it together for the people that you are asked to represent. There is too much at stake.

And I just, I don't understand what more people need, after a night like tonight, to say he is the leader of the free world.

I sometimes, on television, say, I mean, like if -- there go I but for the grace of God that I am not held to the mistakes I make sometimes on television, in the days of my life.

And I'm just -- it's a -- I'm a little annoyed, and I'm furious, because I talk to Black people, who have saved this country, over and over, who helped elect Joe Biden, who saved the Democratic Party, timeless, timeless, time again, and Black people are saying, let it go, folks.

And yet again, when you look at the people who have called, for him to step down, they are not the backbone of the Democratic Party. And that to me is frustrating.

REINES: Can I make a psychological observation? So people--

COLLINS: I don't know.

REINES: People went two different ways, after that debate. Some people panicked and melted, and they want to go a 100 different ways. Some people decided to fight.

And there're not enough people who just said what you said. They are curled up on the floor. Even when they feel good for a night, they're worried about tomorrow, as opposed to doing exactly what you said, which is tomorrow, is to say, Donald Trump cannot come back into office. Joe Biden is our nominee. He is our president. We have to prevent that.

KRISTEN SOLTIS ANDERSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: But there's--

ALLISON: And I'm not trying to play Olympics.

(CROSSTALK)

SOLTIS ANDERSON: But there's--

ALLISON: But it's like, it's because of people, who are fighting, it's because they have had to fight their whole life.

COLLINS: David Axelrod, go ahead. And then, we'll go to you, Kristen.

AXELROD: Ye, I just -- I just want to do a little reality check here. This wasn't just a reaction to a debate, OK? Joe Biden's numbers were not good going into that debate. They were not good coming out of that debate.

And Utah, I've seen hundreds of focus group reports and a lot of data. This issue has hung over him throughout. This issue of age and ability has -- have hung over him throughout.

What happened in the debate was that on the biggest test of this -- of this campaign, probably the biggest stage he'll have in his political life. He took an oral exam, and he failed. And that really, really concerned people.

Because the question was not just whether -- not whether he can bring it sometimes, but when he has to bring it, when the -- when the crunch is on, because the presidency doesn't -- you don't get to choose when you have to bring it, when you're President of the United States.

You also, by the way, don't get to set your hours, because the challenges come 24/7. And many of them have mortal consequences. So, that's what's worrying people.

And I think, I am all for -- I believe Donald Trump does present an existential threat to our democracy. So, the real question is, is Joe Biden the strongest person, at this point, to beat him? The numbers suggest maybe not. COLLINS: Yes. And those are the numbers that he was talking about there. It is a question, as you were saying, David, of what he's seeing versus what everyone else is saying.

And so, Kristen, when you look at that, that is the, you know, when you -- the prospects here, when he's being asked about if the numbers are better for Vice President Harris.

[21:15:00]

There have been polls that show that she would do fit -- she would fare better against Donald Trump. Now, I think a lot of his advisers are skeptical of that, because she has been tested on the national stage before, in the 2020 primary.

But what are you seeing versus what he said there at the end?

SOLTIS ANDERSON: Well, as a pollster, I am very uncomfortable with the level of importance that is being placed on our industry, right now.

Because frankly, what President Biden decides to do should not just be about am I up or down in the latest poll my campaign did? It should be about do I really think that I am fit to serve?

And the voters disagree with the President's assessment on that question. They disagree pretty vehemently. And one good press conference does not put that aside, because those beliefs existed before the one bad night that the campaign tries to say, oh, let's not worry about that.

The problem Biden faces is it's not just about style. It is also concerns about substance. We've talked a lot tonight about he had this command of the issues in this press conference at NATO. Joe Biden's job approval, before the debate, was lower than his overall job approval, on the issue of foreign policy.

So, the problem that Biden faces is that right now, voters don't think he's up to the task. As long as he stays in the race, Democrats are kind of stuck with no good, no low-risk option.

COLLINS: What about him saying, the campaign hasn't really gotten started yet? I think everyone would agree the whole campaign has shifted, now that we've had that debate. But he was saying, until the fall, that's when the campaign really gets underway.

Is that still how it works with early voting?

SOLTIS ANDERSON: I think--

COLLINS: And what the dynamic looks like?

SOLTIS ANDERSON: I think that is an outdated view of how politics works. I mean, recall in 2012, Mitt Romney was defined very negatively in May. And you could argue, at that point, it was kind of done.

Right now, these are two candidates who are not unknown. It's not like Joe Biden's introducing himself to America, at the Democratic convention, this year. So, that's where I think that assessment is not quite right.

COLLINS: Yes. I do want to go now to one of the latest Democrats, who today called on President Biden, to step aside. Congressman Brad Schneider from Illinois.

And, Congressman, just when you listen to tonight's press conference, those questions that Biden took for, for an hour, did it change your mind on your decision today?

REP. BRAD SCHNEIDER (D-IL): No, I think the President did a fine job. He showed a command of the issues, both domestic and foreign, showed a stark contrast to what we're dealing with, with former President Trump.

But the fact is, and as was said earlier, we can't have a situation, where every day we're holding our breath, whether it's a press conference, a debate or a rally.

And I think we're in an historic moment, where the President can pass the torch, to the next generation, not only unite the Democratic Party, but unite the country. And rather than slogging to a finish at the end of the election, in November, we can run to the finish, win with a strong mandate, and continue this incredible experiment we've been working on for 248 years.

COLLINS: So, what do you say to allies of the White House, who watched that press conference, hear what you said just there, and say, their argument would be, OK, well there's nothing he can do to appease the critics, who want him to get out of this race, even if he demonstrates one flub at the beginning of that press conference, but then also delivering complex answers to questions about foreign policy.

What do you say to that?

SCHNEIDER: Well, I think we've got to look at what people are saying. I was at eight parades last week, celebrating the Fourth of July. I walked by probably 50,000 people. Not one said me -- said to me, we need to keep President Biden.

My outreach to my office is running almost 30 to one, saying we need to bring someone, who can unite us and move us forward, and it's not President Biden. And I've talked to many of my colleagues.

So, I love the President. I think he's done a great job. I think he has an opportunity to put a capstone on a remarkable career, finishing as one of the greatest presidents we've ever had in our nation's history. And I think if he passes the torch, and he does it successfully, he will go down as a historic figure, in the pantheon of George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, or Franklin Roosevelt.

COLLINS: There was some new polling that came out today, from the Washington Post, and ABC.

If you look at the breakdown in some of the numbers, there were more Hispanic voters, more White voters, who were saying that they did believe President Biden should step aside in this race.

But there was a majority, I believe, it was close to 56 percent, of Black voters who were saying that they did believe he should stay in this race.

What would you say to those voters, or in South Carolina, or in other areas, who're saying we do want him to stay in, we haven't called on him to step aside?

SCHNEIDER: Yes. What I would expect to say is if President Biden goes to the podium, talks about the future, talks about passing the torch, and successfully transfers the mantle, and does it before the convention, where we have a unified convention?

I would go and share the love for the President, and say he was a remark -- is a remarkable man, who's done a remarkable job, and he's given us the greatest gift to move forward and win in November. And I think most people, whether it's South Carolina, Illinois, or anywhere in the country, would agree.

[21:20:00]

COLLINS: What was your reaction, when you heard him talking about why -- when he was asked by Asma Khalid of NPR, about being a bridge to the next generation, that is what he promised when he -- when he ran in 2020.

SCHNEIDER: Yes.

COLLINS: She was asking about that. And he was saying it was because what's at stake here, all of the -- citing his experience, essentially, as a basis for staying in, when it came to the economy, when it came to foreign policy, but also the stakes of democracy, and what's at stake in this race.

What was your reaction to that answer? Was that sufficient for you?

SCHNEIDER: I thought it was a great question.

And I was the first person, in the Illinois delegation, to endorse President Biden, four years ago. I did so because I knew he would be a good president. And he has been a great president.

That said, I think part of the role of being able to be that bridge, to pass the torch to a new generation, having created or helped create, in the Democratic Party, not just a deep and a wide bench, from Vice President Harris.

We've got governors across the country, who have demonstrated records of significant accomplishments, in their states, as executives. We've got people in the cabinet, people in the Senate, the House. We've gotten a bench.

And he has, I believe the opportunity to show the way, and open the door to the next generation, in a way no one else has, since George Washington. And I hope he takes that chance and, again, unites not just the Democratic Party, but I think he'll unite the entire nation.

COLLINS: Congressman Brad Schneider, you say your mind is unchanged. Thank you, for joining us tonight.

SCHNEIDER: Thank you.

COLLINS: And we do have more on the breaking news. CNN is also now reporting that former President Barack Obama, and former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, have spoken privately, about President Biden, and the future of his 2024 campaign. We'll bring you that reporting, after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:26:23]

COLLINS: Some breaking news for you, tonight, as we are now learning here at CNN that former President Barack Obama, and Nancy Pelosi, have spoken privately about Joe Biden, and the future of the 2024 campaign.

Both the former President and the ex-House Speaker expressed concerns, we are told, about how much harder they think it's going to be, for the President to beat Donald Trump. But neither seems right now, as a lot of Democrats are in this position, quite sure what to do about it.

Joining me, tonight, here at the table:

Isaac Dovere, CNN's Senior Reporter on that story.

Michael Scherer, National Political Reporter at The Washington Post.

And MJ Lee, our Senior White House Correspondent, who also had some great in-depth reporting today. We'll talk about that and what it's like inside the West Wing in a moment.

But for someone, who was in the West Wing, President Obama having this conversation with Speaker Pelosi is really remarkable, and also just speaks to the fact that every single person in America seems to be having this conversation, right now. But certainly, these two figures that everyone's looking for guidance to.

EDWARD-ISAAC DOVERE, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Yes, and look, I mean, I think you're right. If you have eyeballs and care anyway, about politics, this is what you've been talking about the last two weeks.

For them, this is coming at it with deep personal relationships with Joe Biden. And of course, deep worries about what Donald Trump would be like, if he were back in. Also, if he were not checked by a House or Senate that was under Democratic control. So, there is a lot of concern about that.

And it really, it speaks to also a lot of Democrats, who are saying we want this to end. Many of them want it to end with Joe Biden getting out of the race.

But even if they are, if it doesn't end that way, they just want this conversation to be over. And they're looking desperately to who can end it. And it seems to them that Nancy Pelosi and Barack Obama are the two people, who really, outside of Biden's family itself, can be that force.

COLLINS: Any indication that either of them -- I mean, we already, we all saw, and the White House was kind of shocked by the impact of what Pelosi said, about Biden making a decision when he had already made a decision. Is there any indication that they are going to actually get involved here?

DOVERE: Well, look, part of the issue here for Obama is that there is -- they have a very complex relationship.

You go back to 2015. Joe Biden, the way he tells the story is that he feels like Barack Obama encouraged him not to run, in the 2016 race.

The way that Obama understands that is different, that he was trying to tell Joe Biden to focus on grieving, after his son, Beau died, and that he wasn't really up for what that campaign would be.

Importantly, though, this is Biden, who has to make the decision. And he comes at it -- my reporting, and I talked to a number of people, including people who have spoken with Biden about this in the past, not in the context of this exact moment, but saying that what Joe Biden would likely say back to Barack Obama is, you told me not to run in 2016. And that's how we got Donald Trump. So, it's all of that mixed in with all the larger political considerations.

COLLINS: Yes, there's a sense of not telling them what to do. And now that he is the president, and he's the one inside the West Wing.

MJ, and you had reporting on just what the dynamic is like inside the West Wing, today, and how it's been for months, including the fact that this was the first solo press conference we've seen in eight months, but also, he hasn't had a Cabinet meeting in months as well.

And just what that dynamic looks like, as how the White House is feeling about how tonight went.

MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and it's a lot of things that we have seen play out in public, and we had a sense of over the course of the last year.

It is the ways in which the President, daily, on an everyday basis, is sort of hidden from the public. And there is an operation that is in place, and it's really intricate of the choreography and the stage- managing, to essentially Democrats believe prevent the President, from being in these unscripted extended settings.

[21:30:00]

And every Democrat that we have spoken to, dozens and dozens of Democrats, I think, to a person, would say that they were really shocked, when they saw the President's debate performance.

Like sure, he has aged, like that is not a surprise. Of course, he's not the same person that he was a year ago, two years ago. But when they saw those 90 minutes of the President, looking daze and faltering, they were really surprised. And then, I think the anger really came in.

And the anger is really being directed at the President's inner circle of advisers, some of his family members, and the fact that these were the only people, a very small group that would have known, sort of the full picture of the President's decline and his condition, and that there's such an operation in place to really hide that from the public.

And they just feel like we wouldn't be in this place, if that debate hadn't happened, and if we had known that this is the place that the President is in.

COLLINS: And obviously, as many people look towards the Vice President, Vice President Kamala Harris, and you saw President Biden got multiple questions about her tonight, about whether or not he believes she's qualified to take on the role of president. He said, obviously, he did, given he picked her to be second--

MICHAEL SCHERER, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: Right.

COLLINS: --in line for the presidency -- first in line for the presidency.

But what did you make of what he said tonight about her, and her position, and her numbers, versus what you've been hearing about what her allies are doing behind-the-scenes?

SCHERER: Well, I think he was very gracious, tonight. And I think he'll get credit for that. He said there's no question she could do the job. He didn't seem to be feeling any sort of threat from her.

But I think the threat is very real. I think the threat is, you know, we know it's on the Hill. We know it's within his inner circle. We know it's within his campaign team. Real doubts about whether he can do this. And we know it's definitely in the donor community.

And the donor community has sort of been coming alive, in recent weeks. They've put together plans to start spending money, on influencers, start spending money on TV ads, to start building up the Vice President, on the premise that either she's going to be the vice president, and she's going to be in the spotlight in this campaign, because he's so old, or she's going to be elevated to the nomination to be president, and they'll have to defend her reputation for that.

COLLINS: Yes. While she's been out defending him on the campaign trail.

SCHERER: Yes.

COLLINS: Great reporting from all three of you. Thank you very much, Edward-Isaac Dovere, Michael Scherer, MJ Lee. When we return, we are going to get live reaction to that press conference that we just saw, from the people, who matter the most. The voters, of course, in a must-win state, even according to the Biden campaign.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:37:03]

COLLINS: Breaking news as the top Democrat, on the House Intelligence Committee, Jim Himes, called on President Biden to step aside, moments after he finished that news conference, earlier tonight. He is now among 15 House Democrats to do so.

And Congressman Himes is joining us now.

As it was a moment of course, Congressman, where we were just watching the President speak, and give that press conference. And then as soon as he was done, your statement dropped. Obviously, that means you had it ready.

Was there not anything that he said that could have changed your mind on calling him to get out of the race?

REP. JIM HIMES (D-CT): That's precisely the problem, right? This is not about one press conference, one debate, one speech. This is about the Presidency of the United States.

It's about an apocalyptically powerful individual, and whether the trajectory to the election, and the outcome of the election, and beyond, in the event that Joe Biden were reelected into a job that requires you to deal with the most hideous stuff on the planet.

The President doesn't get to answer any easy questions. I mean, a debate with Donald Trump is a walk in the park, compared to what happens at 4 AM in the White House. So, this has nothing to do with one particular debate.

I didn't put out my statement because I, -- you know, there's an old -- there's an old tradition that politics and partisanship stops at the water edge -- water's edge. And I wasn't going to do that with the important NATO things happening. But I mean, that was the -- that was the timing.

COLLINS: Well, you heard him get a question from David Sanger, about the ability to deal with President Putin, President Xi. And he said, I can deal with them now, and I'll be able to deal with them three years from now.

Do you not agree with that?

HIMES: Look, it's excruciatingly hard to answer that question, right, because a huge part of politics is loyalty, and love and emotion. And nobody understands that better or attracts that better than Joe Biden, a storytelling Irishman, lives in an emotional world. And those are critical values for politics. That's why rallies are so exciting. That's why people tear up, when they hear the name Bobby Kennedy, or John (ph) Kennedy or John McCain or whatever.

But the problem is that can go way too far. And when there's an excess of love and loyalty, you get 70 million Americans, who will not budge from their support for a felon, for a criminal, for an adjudicated rapist, who has promised to turn this country into an authoritarian country. That's what happens when you won't set aside loyalty and love and emotion.

So, the stakes are so high that right now the question is, you know, not that, not how loyal are you? But can we avert -- forget about -- and we can talk more, if you like about, in the event that Joe Biden were reelected. But can you avert a second Trump presidency? And there is not a single number out there, not one -- you know, Cook Report telling us that we may lose the House -- that says that Joe Biden is going to win.

[21:40:00]

And so, the answer to that, which is a fair answer is that yes, but there's still time. There's four or five months to the election. So, then you need to ask yourself, what's the trajectory look like here? Are things getting better?

If you believe that the problem the Democrats have is that we haven't gotten our message across, the message of the bipartisan infrastructure law, the message of capping out-of-pocket expenses in Medicare, at $2,000, at capping insulin costs at $35, and standing up for veterans?

And if you believe that our problem is that we haven't gotten that message across well? And if you also believe that the President has the biggest megaphone? You have to drop the emotion and the loyalty and love, and say, in the next four or five months, is that story going to be told with such precision, and poetry and beauty that you will turn around all the numbers that say we are going to lose?

And I did this painful thing, tonight, because for me, the answer to that is I just don't see that trajectory. I don't see the numbers.

COLLINS: And you think he'll lose to Donald Trump, if Joe Biden goes up against him?

HIMES: Look, I -- you know, like Yogi Berra said, predictions are hard, especially about the future. All I can do is look at the numbers right now. No president has ever won with a 37 percent approval rating. Look at the swing states, because this isn't a race that is decided in five or six states.

The President, you can look at lots of different polls. But the President isn't really up in any of them. And then you can ask yourself. And again, this is future. This is we don't know the future. What does the trajectory look like? And imagine that three months from now, we get another performance, like there was in the debate, right before the election. Do you want to take that risk? I don't.

Now, I don't presume to understand the President's calculus.

COLLINS: Yes.

HIMES: But he's top 10 presidents, right? Why would you gamble that legacy, the legacy of being a top 10 American president, transformative, Lyndon B. Johnson-transformative? And you're going to gamble that on possibly being the guy that handed the country over to a tyrant?

COLLINS: Yes, you're saying it's too risky.

HIMES: That doesn't make sense to me.

COLLINS: Congressman, you said that you waited to put your statement out until after, because of -- it was the NATO Summit, here in Washington. You believed you wanted to wait until he was done meeting with world leaders, done with all of that.

Do you expect that there are other Democrats, in the House, more, that are going to come out? And if so, how many more, do you think there'll be?

HIMES: I don't know the answer to that question. What I can tell you is that I circulate amongst my colleagues. And I would tell you that there is a very small percentage of my colleagues, who are ride or die, who say, this is the only way to go.

My colleagues and I are worried about two things. One, what is plan B? That's a totally fair question. I actually think Plan B looks pretty good. I don't know what it looks like.

But I think we have a remarkable bench of Democrats. And they're also worried about something very legitimate, which tortured me and continues to torture me, which is, we cannot be here anymore. This needs to be resolved, I don't know, in the next five to seven days. Because, we just went 10 days, where the story was not Donald Trump, promising totalitarianism. It was how is Joe Biden going to do in the big boy press conference? Wherever you are on this stuff, this needs to stop soon.

And look, if Joe Biden, if at the end of the day, he's our candidate? No one will work harder than I will, to elect him.

But this is the moment, and in the next 96 hours, perhaps, is the moment, to set aside the poetry, the loyalty and the love, and ask yourself a hard question, which is, are you sure he's going to win? And are you sure that we don't have people, who might articulate the incredible backward-looking successes? Now, remember that and I say backward-looking, because politics is about the future.

COLLINS: Yes.

HIMES: The President focused today on his record behind us (ph), important. But politics is always about the future. Ask yourself that question: Are you sure? Because you're not just gambling, your own political reputation. You are gambling the future of the United States of America.

COLLINS: Congressman Jim Himes, I'll just say, you are on CNN pretty frequently. You are here to weigh in on foreign policy issues, Intel issues. I've rarely seen you this fired up, as you are, talking about this issue, tonight, and your call on the President to step aside.

Jim Himes, thank you for joining us, to explain your reasoning.

HIMES: Thanks.

COLLINS: I want to go now to CNN's Danny Freeman.

We were talking about what this news conference means, not just for the lawmakers and donors, but also for voters.

And Danny Freeman was just with voters in Pennsylvania. Of course, that is going to be absolutely pivotal in the 2024 election.

Danny, what are you hearing from voters? What did they think of how the President did tonight?

DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kaitlan, perhaps I have the opposite end of the coin of what you just heard from the Congressman there.

Listen, I spent most of the evening at a bar here, in southwest Philadelphia, among predominantly Democratic voters.

[21:45:00]

And while, don't get me wrong, there were definitely some groans during some of those gaffe-prone moments that President Biden had, especially towards the top. For the most part, the President was able to alleviate some fears in this room, earlier tonight. Maybe not enough to silence his critics, but certainly enough to make them calmer, about voting for him, come November.

But listen, we're in Philadelphia. And we're in a particular part of Philadelphia, where he won big in 2020. We're very much among his base. But Kaitlan, to your point, that means that he cannot lose any of this support, here in these areas, if he has a hope of competing in Pennsylvania.

So, I want you to take a listen to what some of these voters told me, earlier this evening.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FREEMAN: I saw you and your friend react, when he said, for example, Vice President Trump.

PAM JOHNSON, PENNSYLVANIA DEMOCRATIC VOTER: It happens, OK? He's 81.

RICHARD SMITH, PENNSYLVANIA DEMOCRATIC VOTER: They want Joe Biden to move around like he's on Adderall. And that's not realistic. Be -- let's be realistic as American people. Joe Biden is an 81-year-old man. He's 81-years-old. Let it rock (ph).

FREEMAN: And you don't think he should drop out?

ANTON MOORE, PENNSYLVANIA DEMOCRATIC VOTER: No, he shouldn't drop out. Keep pushing. It's too late. What are we, in July, going into August? Trying to switch to a new candidate? I think it'd be -- I think it'd be foolish.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FREEMAN: Now, Kaitlan, I will say there was one other voter that we spoke with, who said that he was fine with President Biden's performance, tonight. But he felt this was really just the first step, of what he hopes are many, to ultimately prove to him that President Biden has the strength and stamina, to make it through this campaign, and for another four years.

Kaitlan.

COLLINS: Danny Freeman, it's great to hear from voters, and how they're taking it in. Thank you for that report.

And of course, those are the sentiments, from those voters, there in Pennsylvania.

Meanwhile, tonight, you saw President Biden, pushing back against polls that showed Trump having the edge over him. Here's what he told reporters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: How accurate does anybody think the polls are these days? I can give you a series of polls where you have, likely voters, me versus Trump, where I win all the time. When the un-- the unlikely voters vote, he wins sometimes.

So, bottom line is all the polling data, right now, which I think is premature, because the campaign really hasn't even started.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Well, speaking of polls, we have two veteran pollsters here with us.

Kristen Soltis Anderson is back.

And also, Anna Greenberg.

And I do want to note, while we have been talking, two more House Democrats have come out, and called on President Biden to step aside. That's Eric Sorensen of Illinois, and Scott Peters of California, who have now joined the Congressman Jim Himes that we just heard there.

I saw you shaking your head, when Jim Himes was talking about the polling.

ANNA GREENBERG, DEMOCRATIC POLLSTER: Yes.

COLLINS: And I want to know what your view is of what he said about Biden's chances?

GREENBERG: Well, what I was thinking is that it is absolutely insane to say, right now, four months out, with the polls where they are, which is basically tied, that there's no possible way that Joe Biden can win.

And if we just think back to October 2016, I kind of think people in the Republican Party thought there's no possible way that Donald Trump can win this election.

Now, I can say a lot more about what I see underneath the polling, and what strengths are there for Biden, and what strengths are there for the Democratic Party, and what strengths there are in terms of infrastructure, and campaign resources, relative to Trump and the Republican Party.

But I cannot get my head around anyone thinking that they know, right now, what's actually going to happen in this election.

COLLINS: So, you think President Biden's got a point that it is maybe a little too early to be able to definitively say?

GREENBERG: It's absolutely -- it's absolutely too early. What we know about poll -- you know, what we know about presidential polling, and federal -- and polling in federal races is that over time, voters consolidate.

But we see right now is that Trump has actually done a pretty good job of consolidating his base, and there's not much more for him. There's kind of a ceiling. Right now, he's getting about five points less in every battleground poll than he got in 2020.

Now, obviously, Biden's doing less well. But he has a lot more upside, a lot more unconsolidated Democrats. A lot of Democrats are voting for Kennedy, right now. I'd rather be us than them. That's for sure.

SOLTIS ANDERSON: In 2016, the best thing going for Donald Trump was the fact that he wasn't Hillary Clinton. People had very strong negative views about her. And frankly, it was -- the view was that Republicans could kind of run anybody, and they might have had a chance to succeed. And Donald Trump, with all of his flaws, was able to pull together that coalition.

Right now, Joe Biden's got the benefit of not being Donald Trump. And there are a lot of voters out there that have said, I simply cannot vote for Donald Trump. You put Joe Biden up there with all his flaws, I would still vote for him.

So, that's why you are not going to see, and I think Anna and I talked about this week, we kind of agree, the polls are not going to fall apart for either of these candidates, because we're so locked in, with people having such strong views about them, that these candidates really, the narrow, narrow, narrow band of voters, who are truly undecided is very small.

COLLINS: Well, and it's remarkable how, after two weeks of fully non- stop negative coverage of President Biden's performance, I mean, a lot of it because his own party is saying he should get out of the race. In that poll, Washington Post poll, it's still 46 percent, 46 percent Donald Trump--

SOLTIS ANDERSON: Yes.

COLLINS: --and Joe Biden.

[21:50:00]

GREENBERG: And Trump is way less favorable in that poll than Biden is. And I hear that in focus group after focus group. Absolutely, people have concerns about Biden and his age, but they cannot stand Donald Trump.

COLLINS: Yes, great to have you respond. I wanted everyone at home to know that you were shaking your head at that, because I could see it, during the whole interview. It was great.

Kristen Soltis Anderson, Anna Greenberg, thank you both, for being here, to look at the numbers.

Of course, there are people who do want President Biden to stay in this race. One of them, maybe an unusual name, Donald Trump, is certainly someone.

We have someone, who can take us inside that mindset. Why Trump and his allies are pushing for President Biden to stay in the race? Donald Trump's former National Security Adviser, John Bolton, is here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Tonight, President Biden sought to make the case about what he believes is at stake, in the upcoming election, and why he is not giving in to those demands, even from members of his own party, to get out.

[21:55:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: But do you think our democracy is under siege based on this court? Do you think democracy is under siege based on Project 2025? Do you think he means what he says when he says he is going to do away with civil service and eliminate the Department of Education? Make sure -- I mean, we've never been here before.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Back here on, THE SOURCE, tonight, to weigh in, Ambassador John Bolton, who served as Donald Trump's former National Security Adviser.

Ambassador, I wonder what you make of what you heard from President Biden there, on what he does believe is at stake, which is something you've also warned about of, if Trump does return to power?

JOHN BOLTON, FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Well, there's a substantive question about what's wrong with Donald Trump. But there are questions about each candidate's capacity to do the job. And my view has been, for some time, neither one of them has the capacity to do the job.

So, why does Trump want Biden to be his opponent? Because he's got him right in his sights. And this press conference, tonight, is proof of his case that Biden is not up to it.

Look, he was asked a question about Russia-China relations, and how that affects the United States. Went on and on and on, it was incoherent.

He was asked a question about American military aid to Ukraine and restrictions placed on that aid, in terms of targeting Russia. Was incoherent.

He talked about holding corporate rent increases at 5 percent. I don't even know what that subject was.

He was asked why he picked Kamala Harris to be his vice president. Was she qualified? And his answer was, I wouldn't have picked her if she wasn't qualified.

He was asked if he could still speak with Xi Jinping and Vladimir Putin in three years. And he said, I can speak with them now and I can speak with them then.

Those aren't answers. Those are the questions without question marks. And this goes on and on and on. Are we going to--

COLLINS: Well that was kind of his style in the sense of saying, yes, I can still -- I can deal with them now, I can deal with them then. He's dealt with them before.

BOLTON: But he didn't give answers to the questions.

COLLINS: He gave a pretty lengthy answer to about Israel and Gaza, to kind of making the case in a real way that I haven't seen him make so far, and this earnest (ph) way for a two-state solution. But on this--

BOLTON: But it was almost totally critical of Israel.

COLLINS: That's his -- I mean, that's his prerogative.

BOLTON: I prefer--

COLLINS: That doesn't mean he couldn't give a coherent answer, just because that's his -- his view of it.

BOLTON: Is that -- is that reflective of his ironclad support of Israel?

COLLINS: Well, I think he -- that's -- OK. That's a question on his policy, when it comes to Israel. We've seen how that's changed, as Netanyahu has waged a--

(CROSSTALK)

BOLTON: It was not a balanced answer. It was about Israel.

COLLINS: Yes, I don't expect you to agree with President Biden's foreign policy in any way, shape, or form.

But on that sense of, of Donald Trump and his allies were -- I was watching them, reposting things on Twitter, saying he was -- Biden was doing a great job, that it's proof he could stay in this race.

It's kind of remarkable to see them praising him so much, saying that because they are worried about Biden getting out, and maybe having a more formidable opponent for Donald Trump.

BOLTON: They are absolutely worried about that. And they should be.

Look, I think Biden's presidency ended a few hours ago. I don't know whether he's going to be the Democratic nominee or not.

But that performance is the kind of thing that now, for two weeks since the debate, the constant subject has been, does Biden have the mental acuity to do the job? Shall we talk about that for the next four months? Is that conducive to his campaign?

Are these Democrats, who have come out publicly, worried about their election prospects, because of Biden, completely off base? Forget the polling. Politics is about instinct too. And their instincts are they're very nervous.

But even beyond all that, with all due respect to the media, the presidency is not about press conferences. The presidency is about making life-and-death decisions, for this country, under conditions of high stress, with inadequate, inconsistent, constantly-changing information, trying to steer a course through it.

I don't think Biden can do that. Let me be clear. I don't think Trump can do it either. That's why the country is in trouble with this choice of candidates.

COLLINS: Yes, you're writing someone in.

But do you believe if a Democrat, who's been talked about, as a potential replacement, if he got out of the race, which he said, tonight, he's not, do you think another Democrat could beat Donald Trump?

BOLTON: I think the change in the dynamic of the political environment of having somebody, who's not in the plus-70 age category, which I can say, because I am too, having a younger candidate would throw the dynamics of this campaign completely up in the air. COLLINS: And how do you think Trump would handle that?

BOLTON: I don't think he'd handle it very well, because I don't think he's been planning for somebody other than Joe Biden.

In 1960, Dwight Eisenhower was leaving the presidency, had two heart attacks at the ripe old age of 70. And the Democratic response, in John Kennedy, was a candidate with vigor.

Now, they're presenting Joe Biden. So, if that's the way they want to go, it's up to the Democratic Party. Lord knows they're not going to take my advice. But I think shifting candidates now, it will be difficult. There will be problems. But it will completely change the nature of the race.

COLLINS: What about his warning about Project 2025, this plan that Trump allies, even though Trump has distanced himself from it, have been crafting?

BOLTON: Look, I haven't read 2025. I don't plan to.

[22:00:00]

If they want to attack Trump's stance on issues, that's fine. That's what politics is all about. It has nothing to do with Joe Biden's competence.

COLLINS: That was an interesting Kennedy impression, from you.

BOLTON: Thank you.

COLLINS: Ambassador Bolton, thank you for being here, tonight.

Thank you all for being here, on this very busy evening, here on THE SOURCE.

"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts right now.